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Monday, February 22, 2010

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good stuff.

(while there are a lot in the media who think they have the pulse of the tea party movment, the one guy, imho, who actually understands it, is pat caddell.)

Great post, Dan. This is the most encouraging piece I've read from a true-blue conservative on this topic since I started blogging almost 3 years ago.

When libertarians "mature". What an ass you are. The entire Tea Party movement is rooted in the principles of libertarianism.

Thomas - this is the 2nd time you've been an ass today. I was talking about the young kids at CPAC maturing. Take a reading comprehension class before you pop off.

BS, Dan. "I'd much prefer a younger generation starting out as libertarians and perhaps shifting slightly Right as they mature..."

As if libertarianism is just kid's stuff, something to grow out of as one gets older. Give me a f(ing break.

Thomas, take a chill pill man. Dan wants to embrace libertarians and was criticizing Huckabee for wanting to turn them away from the Republican party. I really don't think Dan was trying to insult anyone with this post.

Great post Dan. Very well said.

@ Thomas:

Dan, like myself, is a conservative (or at least I'm assuming that based on this post), meaning that we are not quite in the same boat as the libertarians, especially "big L" libertarians, which is what I'm certain Dan is referring to here.

I'm in my twenties still, and of all my friends I am probably one of the few actual conservatives. Everyone else is either liberal or libertarian. The reason, in my view (I don't really mean this to be insulting, although some might be insulted anyway), is that each of those political worldviews draws upon youthful idealism in a certain way that is often tempered by experience later. The young liberal, for instance, feels that there is so much injustice to be fixed and government is the answer. The young libertarian correctly senses that government is the problem, but applies in equal amount of idealism to the equation, which in all practical effect pits them against social conservatives and neo-conservatives. The former is libertarian save for what we feel are objective truths, obtainable from reason and tested thousands of years of past human civilization. The neo-conservative differs with the libertarian, obviously, on matters of national defense and its execution.

I feel that these differences can be reconciled, so as long as the libertarian can understand that a society cannot be completely libertine; that no man, unless he possesses ethics that is borne of some other universe, can fully accept a society does not even gently encourage healthy behavior, otherwise we'd have pornographers setting up shop next to the local school house.

Most older libertarians I know of accept that. They often call themselves "libertarian-conservatives," and might hold views that are 99% the same as your young, fiery Ron Paul supporter, but are usually much more congenial and easy to work with.

To me, the young libertarian becomes this as certain realities of this world round out the sharp edge of their political framework.

As long as America is ruled by two parties (and I don't see a possibility of anything else occurring AND American retaining anything resembling that which has made us great) Republicans will have to be a "big tent" party -- just as the Democrats will.

Libertarians and conservatives are imperfect labels (as are progressive and liberal). Personally, I'm a mixture of all of those -- depending on which subject is under discussion. Frankly, anyone who isn't a mixutre, in my opinion, hasn't given enough thought to what he stands for and why.

So, I'm all for McCain and other "less conservative" Republicans running for office. They, no more than anyone else "owes" a younger person or a differently-minded person, the office they hold.

If the person who wants the office wants it -- thinks he can do a better job -- then run. And, if, in the Primary, he wins, then that, too, is good. If he loses, however, the constant refrain I hear from some on the right that they won't vote for (fill in the blank with name of "not conservative enough Republican") and risk giving the seat to a Democrat who is almost assuredly more liberal than the "RINO" are foolish at best and destructive at worst.

Now is the right time to have this conversation. We ought not boo Paulistas if we expect them to pull the R lever in the polling booth.

Sarah Palin said that a primary election ought not be a "civil war" and that's a good sentiment when renegotiating the power relationships between the establishment Republicans "who ruined the brand" and the rest of us. The establishment have to prove they've taken a delivery from the clue train in the 2006 and 2008 elections. Best way I can think of for Republicans to demonstrate they can hear us is by winning contested Primary elections.

That's a good reason to vote against the fellow Mrs. Palin has endorsed in the Arizona Senate race. And should Colin Powell want to tell Republicans what to do, I'll pay more attention after he actually wins a primary election, too.

We shouldn't kick the Progressive Republicans out of the party, but we should require them to demonstrate that they do more for the Republican Party than Paulistas and Tea Partiers. Otherwise, I suggest they already belong to the Whigs v2.0

Ron Paul rocks!!

Libertarianism is the future.

Hear! Hear!

Very nice post, Dan. I agree; in fact, the Tea Party is what drew me rightward in the first place. It's the simple, sensible message that I hear from the Tea Partiers: Be frugal! Don't spend more than you have! Who can argue with that? It's straightforward, humble and easy to understand and measure. It's the most appealing conservative message in a decade or more. The GOP should be getting on the bandwagon and not listen to the DC conventional wisdom that just doesn't get it.

I tend to agree with Thomas (even if I wouldn't use his tone).

Dan writes: "The only real ground up Right-side movement I see in America today is the Tea Party movement. It's my hope that, eventually, through inclusion, not confrontation with whatever it is we are, it can give us the new blood[.]" The problem is, it's not the Right's movement. Rick Santelli's rant was Ayn Randian, selfish, without sympathy for others, in other words, libertarian pure and simple.

Yet, I point this out yesterday and I'm chastised for being "timid". It's not timidity, it's anger. It was a call for smaller government, for an end to handouts and, as Erick Erickson wisely called months ago, it is being coopted (as you yourself Dan are suggesing here) by the Right and more specifically by the GOP. That's not what the Tea Party movement was about, it wasn't a GOP movement. Can't you see that if the GOP voters make the tea party movement their own, it belittles the movement, it marginalizes it?

Great post. Right on the money. People nitpick about the labels, but Dan, I think you said what needed to be said. It can't be "business as usual" for the Republicans or avowed conservatives. Best label probably would be "liberatarian conservatives", but it doesn't make a difference, what you described is the direction the country SHOULD head in (instead of the totalitarianism the Left wants to take us to).

Well said. I went to one of the first tea parties in my state capitol, in February 2009. A few weeks ago I filled out the ballot form to be a Republican precinct delegate, for the first time. Now I need to find some "No more Scozzofavas" and "No more McCains" buttons. Should be interesting.

As a former "Libertarian", I'd like to see the word's use purged from the conservative vernacular. I left the LP for good reason (too many anarchists, potheads and don't get me started on NOTA at the conventions). As one of the early participants in the Tea Party movement (I organized L.A.'s event last Feb 27th and I moderate the teapartiers listserve where most of the movement's national leaders interact), I can tell you that the Tea Party movement and the LP are not synonymous.

Using the term libertarian implies Libertarian - not at all good for anyone. Can't we just use the term "constitutionalist"?

The LP is outdated, overrun with anarchists, gay marriage supporters, pro-deathers, and is nearly irrelevant to this discussion, and in no way are they the keepers of the Tea Party movement. Thank God for that.

WOW!!!! A must read for all serious thinkers on the Right.

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