NY - 23: Local GOP Mayor Responds - More

There are several developments in the NY - 23 race to catch up on, including local reactions. Mayor Scott Burto of the Village of West Carthage sent me an email and has agreed to its publication. He is supporting Dede Scozzafava. See below.

Along with that reaction, via RedState, several prominent conservatives have come out for Hoffman. Also, the Hoffman camp has released a list of several local Republican leaders who have put aside party to endorse him. And Ed Driscoll adds news and sees a metaphor in all this, while Stacy McCain adds news and commentary, as well.

The internal GOP war I mentioned yesterday is now more fully in the open. Regardless of how this develops, try to remember both factions need one another in 2010 to prevent continued all but full liberal control of the Federal Government after the midterms of 2010.

First I must say that I am a local committee member of the Republican Party and a volunteer coordinator for Assemblywomen Scozzafava. The selection of Assemblywomen Scozzafava was one of the most fair and open processes ever. The 11 county chairs allowed anyone interested in interviewing a chance to speak to all committee members in a series of interviews across this huge district. Mr. Hoffman was one of nine people who attended the interviews seeking our support. After the interview process the county chairs met to select a candidate. In Jefferson County we allow our 160 or so committee members to vote for who our chairwomen would support. At these interviews Mr. Hoffman made it very clear he felt all candidates were very well qualified and if he wasn't selected he would support and help our candidate. In an email just two days after we made our selection Mr. Hoffman congratulated Assemblywomen Scozzafava and offered his help. Mr. Hoffman says he is a member of Glenn Beck 9.12 Project which includes principles like Honesty and sincerity, but his actions speak volumes to his commitment.

Conservative Party Chairmen Mike Long made his dissatisfaction very well known to us and his interest to run a third candidate.  If he wanted to run a Conservative Republican he could have talked with Paul Maroun a Conservative Republican who in my opinion and many others was one of our top 3 candidates. Unfortunately Mr. Hoffman was ninth in my opinion and many others who participated in the interviews.  Instead he has chosen Mr. Hoffman, who doesn't even live in 23rd Congressional District and couldn't even vote for himself in the November 3rd election.

On many radio shows and 30 second commercial you are provided with some misinformation or limited information on a many things. Assemblywomen Scozzafava is NOT the Working Family candidate or ACORN endorsed. Mr. Owens has the WFP line in the November 3rd election. She sponsored legislation to remove ACORN funding from the New York State budget. In her 11 years in the NYS Assembly she has voted with the Republican Conference 95% of the time. She ranks 5th out of the republicans in Albany for voting along the party line. She would NOT support the health care package as it is proposed, she is supportive of Tort reform, she favors opening state line for competitive insurance and she would oppose the Cap and Trade. On immigration reform she also stands against amnesty and for better regulations. She believes in less government spending and less taxes. She voted NO on the 2009 New York State budget which had the largest increase in spending, taxes and fees in state history. Mr. Hoffman claims this was done to help her run for Congress but this vote was well before anyone knew of Congressmen John McHugh's appointment.  Dede also received the endorsement of the National Rifle Association.

I have known Assemblywomen Scozzafava for the 11 years I have served as village trustee and now as Mayor. Not once have I considered Assemblywomen Scozzafava a career politician. She has spent countless hours fight for our residents of Northern New York, first as Mayor of Gouverneur, and as New York State Assemblywomen. As New York State Assemblywomen she has provide our residents with exceptional services. She has always been there to assist the Village of West Carthage with any issues at the state or local level.  I question the amount and quality of services our residents and local communities will receive if either of the others were elected. They don't even feel it is necessary to debate or answer questions on local issues before we vote.

Assemblywomen Scozzafava has worked very hard to bring money back to the North Country for projects that have improved healthcare, brought new business opportunities and created jobs. Mr. Hoffman's pledge not to accept earmark money worries me. Assemblywomen Scozzafava has made it very clear that there needs to be reform in the system and how money is disturbed. Until changes are made I want a representative that will bring money back to the district for project that make improvements to the community. Many projects would not happen without this type of assistance. The Carthage Area Hospital has had three major projects in the last 5 years that all received earmarked money from Congressman McHugh. These projects improved healthcare to our residents, created and protected jobs, redeveloped an abandon grocery store that was the gateway to our village and is now rebuilding the downtown that was lost to a devastating fire. Hospital Administer Walter Becker would make it very clear none of this would have been possible with earmarked money. Until there is reform we need someone fighting for our district, they are going to earmark the money to someone else if Mr. Hoffman won't accept it.

So I ask you on November 3rd vote for issues that matter to the North Country, issues that affect us close to home and not allow outside PACs and politicians with there own agenda influence our election. Please vote for Dede Scozzafava on November 3rd.

 

Thank You

Scott Burto
Mayor
Village of West Carthage

Comments

[the bishop]

Show us, don't tell us Mr. Mayor, questioning Glenn Beck's sincerity is not a way to win points. There's a reason why the legislature had to rely on Monserrate and Espada to hold the majority, that tells you what you need of
the state legislature.

[Scott]

This seems like "If we say it enough times, it will turn out to be true."

First and bigges problem: If Dede was the right girl for the job, beloved by all, why did she collapse as soon as the spotlight was put on her? Surely it wasn't just endorsements by Fred, Sarah and Paulenty.

Second problem, almost as big: The mayor wants more pork. "Until changes are made I want a representative that will bring money back to the district for project that make improvements to the community." That's not taken out of context, either. The context of the paragraph where this is found is earmarks.

The third paragraph makes it sound like Scozzafava is overwhelmingly conservative, running right next to Reagan. That seems like a liberal mayor providing cover for his favorite liberal Republican.

[Scott]

First I wasn't questioning anything about Mr. Beck's sincerity in anyway. I was questions Mr. Hoffman. Mr. Beck hasn't done anything but allow Doug on his show. What would you like me to show you instead of tell you?

Second I do not want more pork and think that there needs to be reform to the way earmarks are made. My point is that there are projects like the hospital that need funding to approve health care. Until there make changes I don't want Mr. Hoffman turning away funding for important projects like health care and Fort Drum. He has already changed his tune on accepting earmarks when he realized he requested and received $450,000 in pork earmarks as Chairman of the board at Adirondack Medical. The third paragraph are all accurate statements and I can provide information if you would like. So yes she is conservative if you feel that is what those statements stand for.

[Darth Venomous]

Mr. Burto:

"Until changes are made I want a representative that will bring money back to the district for project that make improvements to the community."

"Second I do not want more pork and think that there needs to be reform to the way earmarks are made"

You can't really have it both ways, sir. You say "until changes are made" - but it appears as if you just don't want to be the one to make them, despite the fact you say they need to be made. If change can't start with you, then with whom?

As the two quoted statements directly contradict each other, one of them is a flat-out lie. You choose which one, sir - it matters not to me.

As for Mr. Beck, I tend to think that if Ms. Scozzafava wanted air time on his program, he'd give it to her. So tell and/or show me, sir - what's stopping her?

[Peg C.]

I'm just not buying what Burto is selling, sorry.

[Unix-Jedi]

It's great to see Mr. Burto show up in support of his quoted remarks.

However, he's done more harm than good to his intent with how he's said things.

His comment - where he's against pork, but you know, until then, we'll take what we can get undermines him seriously, but more seriously is how he's phrased several comments about Ms. Scozzafava.

"Assemblywomen Scozzafava is NOT the Working Family candidate or ACORN endorsed. Mr. Owens has the WFP line in the November 3rd election."

That's a particular nit, and that's interesting. From my information, she was on the WFP party line in 2004 and 2008. Specifying that now she's not is of interest, but neither does it rebut the charges that she has been endorsed. So, Mr. Burto, has she ever been on the WFP line? Has she ever been endorsed? Has she refused the endorsement and has she been supported financially by the WFP or ACORN?

"She would NOT support the health care package as it is proposed"

Another nit that's very interesting. One, it speaks to the candidate's mindset without proof of that close of connection. Two, it allows the slippery ability to claim that a minor change was all that was needed to gain support. "As it is proposed". Well, Mr. Burto, since you're that in tune wuth Ms. Scozzafava, please tell us what proposal(s) she would support? It implies she's fine with more government and more Washington control over a system that's gravely ill due to the massive amounts of government interference already. Not exactly "Conservative". But that's what you're arguing for her.

"Many projects would not happen without this type of assistance. "

I'm not in the district, and I'm not even technically a Republican. But that's the problem, Mr. Burto. As long as we've got a Prisoner's Dilemma situation, yes, of course every Peter is going to rob Paul. And Paul's going to rob John. And John is going to rob Peter.

That is exactly the problem. And why I'm going to support people who will stop the robbing. You want the Grocery store redeveloped? Raise the money your own self. Yes, it's much easier to get someone to give you my money. So when do I get your money for my pet projects? What of the jobs destroyed due to the taxes to "create" yours?

[RogerCfromSD]

Liberals are insatiable. They have no common sense and will continue to grow government unless forced to do otherwise.

As they have demonstrated this year, they will enact policies that require large amounts of taxation. Since everyone in the U.S. is taxed to provide for "pork projects" in other states and counties, it is only logical for everyone to have a stake in even local elections.

Pork projects, if to be allowable at all, should be at the state level only, not the federal.

Dee Dee is an absolute joke as a Republican. Republican Lite is no longer Republican.

[Ming the Merciless Siamese Cat]

Mr. Burto's statement has convinced me . . . that we need to get rid of Scott Burto next.

[Diogenes]

"Instead he has chosen Mr. Hoffman, who doesn't even live in 23rd Congressional District and couldn't even vote for himself in the November 3rd election."

Red herring. Only because the district was gerrymandered by the GOP to exclude Lake Placid. Mr. Hoffman never moved.

Gotta' be careful what you say on the intarwebz...

[NeoconBlonde]

I wonder how many of these comments have come from those who are truly familiar with Upstate New York's unique economic challenges and history of being gauged to promote the excesses of NYC? I encourage people to travel to this area and see for themselves exactly what has happened up there over the years of Rockefeller and Cuomo. Shells of once beautiful cities. Poverty that seems unimaginable given that these people share the same state as NYC. Agriculture that deserves the same federal attention as any other. It would behoove many in the Republican party unfamiliar with this area to stop making this about themselves.

[gary gulrud]

"Mr. Hoffman's pledge not to accept earmark money worries me. Assemblywomen Scozzafava has made it very clear that there needs to be reform in the system and how money is disturbed. Until changes are made I want a representative that will bring money back to the district for project that make improvements to the community. Many projects would not happen without this type of assistance. The Carthage Area Hospital has had three major projects in the last 5 years that all received earmarked money from Congressman McHugh. These projects improved healthcare to our residents, created and protected jobs,"

I think someone is unclear on the concept 'conservatism' with regard for our current fiscal straits and "bending the cost curve by further involving government".

[Diogenes]

I wonder if the Village of West Carthage library has a copy of "Who Moved My Cheese?" Mr. Burto might want to check it out - it's a quick read.

The times they are a changin'...

[Pau]

"Assemblywomen Scozzafava has made it very clear ...THAT THERE NEEDS TO BE REFORM IN THE SYSTEM AND HOW MONEY IS DISTURBED(?)

Translation.
I'll be a better piggy at the trough while our finances get slaughtered and our children become debt slaves.

Yeah. Real Conservative. /sarc

[JadedByPolitcs]

Bottom line she is KOS approved and that is all anyone needs to know about how liberal she is! OBTW I am sure her husband would love Card Check to pass, so how does she separate the business of being a Republican and the desire's of her husband? she won't because this woman is about the WORST example of a Republican since oh John McCain. WE don't need no STINKING liberals in the Republican Party...I will leave you with the ultimate Conservative...

"A political party cannot be all things to all people. It must represent certain fundamental beliefs which must not be compromised to political expediency, or simply to swell its numbers."

That my friends is a man who knows how to WIN elections with the base of the party....Ronald Reagan!

[Sean]

"The internal GOP war I mentioned yesterday is now more fully in the open. Regardless of how this develops, try to remember both factions need one another in 2010..."

No, we don't. We need the GOP to go away, and we need a non-corrupt party to stand up that actually believes in fiscal conservatism. Certainly in New York that is the case, and I think it is also needed in several other corrupt states, if not nationally.

The GOP is to fiscal conservatives as the DNC is to black Americans: lip service and hypocrisy.

I got involved in the New York GOP scene for a few years, and it was so corrupt and feckless, I know for certain that you could never root out the corruption and rotten core that is there. We need to set up a new party and treat anyone who had any kind of ties to the NYGOP like we treated the Ba'ath party in Iraq: they're not allowed in.

[NeoconBlonde]

With all due respect, Jaded, that Reagan quote could also represent the idea that the so-called "base" [I only say that because I have met all sorts of people with vastly different political opinions who think each of them represents the "base" of the GOP] may not find that the party can be all things to themselves.

It would be useful to keep in mind that Ronald Reagan was a very moderate Republican himself. I urge you to read the Brinkley book in its entirety. Even the hardest of Reagan critics like Christopher Hitchens have reconsidered their position on how far to the right Reagan actually tacked. Reagan was a true unifier--such a feat in this diverse country cannot be achieved by adhering to a rigid and potentially alienating political ideology. This is evidenced by the fact that we, conservatives--moderate and traditional alike, are feeling such alienation by the current administration.

The third paragraph in the letter from Mayor Burto demonstrates that many reasonably people believe Ms. Scozzafava to possess and be guided by these core values. They were able to reach an acceptable consensus with 160 people.

In supporting Mr. Hoffman, has everyone actually investigated into his background and his acceptability as a candidate? He's not a resident. That fact managed to prove VERY problematic [probably the actual reason for his failed bid] for Tedisco in the spring. Where is the consideration for that fact? Otherwise, they might as well elect someone from NYC.

[seekeronos]

Don't discount the WW2 example where certain ex-Nazis (mostly the lower-echelon leadership that kept the lights on, the trains moving, and the postal service delivering, etc). were employed during the Occupation, into the formative years of the Bundesrepublik.

In like manner, if we can harvest a suitable number of (truly) conservative GOP'ers in NY (like the Doug Hoffmanns) and blend them with the matrix of Constitutionalists, Ron Paulists and Libertarians (there are droves of them in NY, especially upstate)... we could do much to reform the NYGOP, or supplant it.

We will need to educate the muddy middle who do not grasp that liberals who fly the elephant flag overhead... are still lousy, KOS-kissing, socialist-Koolaid-swilling liberals.

[Scott]

methinks, or at least wonders, if perhaps neoconblonde is not trolling. This person certainly has the Gingrich doctrine of Reagan the moderate pragmatist down pat. Sockpuppetry, perhaps? NRCC staffer assigned to watch this particular site and/or post? Perhaps not. I just looked back at the previous posts done by Dan on NY23, and didn't see any comments from this particular handle, but it wasn't scientific or anything like that. And the name "neoconblonde" certainly SOUNDS Republican enough, don't you think? Reagan, the Gingrich doctrine, and the name. Yeah, I'm convinced. Oh, yeah, and those all important LOCAL issues, too. It's the whole quadfecta.

[North Dallas Thirty]

"Reagan was a true unifier--such a feat in this diverse country cannot be achieved by adhering to a rigid and potentially alienating political ideology."

Ah yes, unity before principles.

Sorry, but anyone who has ever gone through leadership training knows that strong and effective leaders seek consensus and unity, but ultimately make decisions based on principles.

Or, put differently, if I put a PhD physicist and a five-year-old in a room and tell them to write a description of electromagnetic wave theory based on their consensus, the end product is likely not going to make any sense to either of them. The Bay of Pigs invasion was a fine example of a decision made on unity and consensus first with principles second.

[Dan Riehl]

I believe Neocon blonde is a right-side blogger that's been around a while. Just see her site at the name link.

[JM Hanes]

Mr. Burto:

"The selection of Assemblywomen Scozzafava was one of the most fair and open processes ever."

Even stipulating that Scazzafava's selection proceeded according to the rules, it seems to me that the central controvery here is Newt Gingrich's involvement, the way he chose to spin the results, and, as Dan suggests, the current schism in the party which it reveals. You don't mention specific vote tallies, but it seems clear that Scazzafava did not have nearly the kind of universal support at the local level that Gingrich has contended she did. It's more than a little ironic to hear Gingrich framing the issue as locals for Scazzafava vs. outsiders for Hoffman, when he (not to mention the NRCC) is not exactly local himself. There are serious national implications in virtually every election to the U.S. Congress. Olympia Snow may represent her constituents in Maine, for example, but her vote on healthcare will affect me every bit as much as my own Senator's vote.

If, as you describe it, Scazzafava's record is a conservative one, I'd be interested in knowing why she is apparently so unpalatable to conservatives that they would, or even could, mount such a substantial campaign against her. Your own spirited defense of pork certainly undercuts her conservative credentials, especially when fiscal restraint is now an issue of paramount importance, and when the House is where appropriations start. Earmarks themselves, however, also transcend questions of spending, and $$ amounts alone. They are a form of legislative corruption with which members buy and sell votes on bills which might otherwise go down to well merited defeat.

Your critique of the conservative opposition leaves much to be desired. Long could have chosen a conservative more to your liking. You "question" the conservatives' commitment to their constituents: "They don't even feel it is necessary to debate or answer questions on local issues before we vote."

Do you dispute Hoffman's Oct. 21st public statement? "On August 19, 2009 the Hoffman campaign challenged Dede Scozzafava to a series of 3-5 debates across the district. We asked the Republican County Chairs to sponsor them. The Hoffman campaign even offered to pick-up the rental costs of the venues. Both Scozzafava and the GOP County Chairs refused."

It is well nigh a political truism that the lagging candidate demands debates which the leader tries to avoid -- something which certainly seems consistent with the role reversal here.

[NeoconBlonde]

I'm sorry, Dan, I do not mean to be sounding trolly or roiling the waters on your site. I'm just trying to get my head around what is happening in NY-23. You are really taking the most comprehensive look at this issue. I appreciate it.

I just think there is a real danger in demagoguery of any ilk. I feel as if the left has been exploiting this rift in our party ever since last year. I wonder if KOS' endorsement [and other endorsements] of Scozzafava had the intended effect of getting the far right to question the validity of her conservatism in order to divide the vote.

The point made about Burto's line regarding her not supporting health care as it is written is a very good one, however the line is a canard. Most Republicans I know support health care reform in some form or another--just not a government run, publicly funded program. Many low cost conservative alternatives have been proposed by Republicans [and Democrats] on the Hill.

[memomachine]

Hmmmm.

Dede is a 'conservative'?

That's stretching the definition beyond the breaking point.

Frankly I'm starting to take the opinion that those who try to use conservatism as a means of legitimizing liberals should be flogged within an inch of their lives.

And I'm neither kidding nor engaging in hyperbole.

[Scott]

JM Hanes,

I do not dispute that Hoffman challenged Dede to a series of debates. At that time he wanted the 11 county chairs to reconsider their decision and replace Dede with himself. The county chairs didn't feel this was necessary and were sticking to their decision. They also did not feel that Mr. Hoffman was in the Top 5 of the first series of interviews. Since all parties have nominated their candidate both Mr. Hoffman and Mr. Owens have ducked debates and refused interviews. Last evening Mr. Owens and Dede did have a debate in Plattsburgh that Doug would not attend. Doug also skipped a News 10 Now debate he committed to. We will see if he showed up for today debate in Syracuse. The problem is he has very little knowledge of the local issues and concerns.

Also 160 committee members were in Jefferson County only. The other county chairs had different selection process. In Jefferson County about 110 people voted out of the 160, I don't have know for sure but it was some where around 62 for Dede and 47 for Matt Doheny and 1 for Paul Maroun. Mr. Hoffman didn't get one vote from any Jefferson County committee member.

To NeonconBlonde

Kos' just issued a statement that in no way has he or will he endorse Dede.

[NeoconBlonde]

Scott

Do you or anyone else happen to know what the vote breakdown or selection process was for the other counties?

[Scott]

Neo

I do not know how the other counties did it. I do know that when the 11 county chairs voted Mr. Hoffman didn't get one vote.

[NeoconBlonde]

Scott

Could you elaborate as to what specifically were the things about Mr. Hoffman that made him an unacceptable candidate?

-Tracy

[Darth Venomous]

"To NeonconBlonde

Kos' just issued a statement that in no way has he or will he endorse Dede."

Mr. Burto:

Then either you're lying - or Kos is.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/10/1/12236/8760

"If the Democrat loses the race, we lose nothing -- it was previously held by a Republican. If he wins the seat, we gain another obnoxious Blue Dog, undermining our caucus from within while adding just a single vote to our already dominant House majorities. Furthermore, the typical DC wankers will take this as "proof" that you need to run Lieberdems in such districts to win them, while ignoring the fragmented conservative opposition. Not much of an advantage at all. More than likely, a net disadvantage.

So it's official, I'm rooting for the Republican to win. As a congresswoman, she could either move even more to the left to properly represent her progressive-trending district and be a pain in the side of the GOP caucus (they have nothing like our Blue Dogs), or Democrats can field a real Democrat to challenge her in 2010."

Sir, you should probably not talk out your --- in front of a Blogosphere that can fact-check it.

Just sayin'.

[NeoconBlonde]

Reading your link, I found nothing that constituted a Kos endorsement. An endorsement indicates support of a candidate. There is nothing that shows he supports Scozzafava other than to be able to better push his political agenda at some future time. As much as I dislike Kos, he is nothing if not consistent.

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2009/10/29/798185/-NY-23:-Gaming-it-out

[Darth Venomous]

"Reading your link, I found nothing that constituted a Kos endorsement. An endorsement indicates support of a candidate."

If "So it's official, I'm rooting for the Republican to win." isn't an endorsement, I have no idea what would be.

Then again, perhaps I'm not as "nuanced" as some folk. Words still mean things to _this_ conservative.

[JM Hanes]

Scott:

Thanks for the clarification. Apologies for having posed the question in such a confrontational way.

[NeoconBlonde]

Words only have meaning based on the context in which they are spoken/written. One cannot isolate one word and say that it means one thing when the entirety of what the person is saying directly contradicts this. That's like when Bill Clinton said, "I did not have sex with that woman" under oath and when presented with irrefutable evidence to the contrary, he tried to argue that he meant he did not have sexual intercourse, but the oral was something entirely different.

I hope Scott comes back, I want to know why they didn't like Hoffman.

[Scott]

Jm Hanes

You are welcome. No problem on the question.

Neo

I will explain when I can write more.

Darth

From todays WTD Blog

kos: "I have nothing but ill will for all candidates in this race" + poll
JUDE SEYMOUR
First published: October 29, 2009 at 1:07 pm
Last modified: October 29, 2009 at 1:23 pm
Daily Kos founder Markos Moulitsas made it clear today that he doesn't support Republican Dede Scozzafava in the 23rd Congressional District race - and that he resents that conservative pundits have used his Sept. 3 post as ammunition to hit Ms. Scozzafava and prop up Doug Hoffman, the Conservative candidate.

"I have no love for the Democrat, Owens, and I clearly have no love for Scozzafava in that post, so only an idiot would construe that as an 'endorsement,'" Mr. Moulitsas writes, in part. "An endorsement implies love for the candidate being endorsed. I wish nothing but ill will for all candidates in this race. But the GOP is full of idiots, and they've run strong with it, making my "endorsement" part of their anti-Scozzafava narrative. And now we're in a situation in which the conservative candidate Doug Hoffman has a real chance of performing better than the Republican."

[Billy Beck]

"I wonder how many of these comments have come from those who are truly familiar with Upstate New York's unique economic challenges and history of being gauged to promote the excesses of NYC?"

{cold stare} My father retired out of the USAF in 1974 (when I was seventeen years old), to a twenty-five acre plot about fifteen miles east of Ithaca. I have watched this bloody disaster for most of my life. There is a hell of a lot more to it than "the excesses of NYC". This is a state government far more at home anywhere in 18th century Europe than America. We live under the boots of robbers, strutters, mountebanks, martinets, and commissars. This culture has seeped down to local levels, and a man cannot even nail together a goddamned shack on his own land (a sick joke, now, because we actually rent it from the state, annually) before the eaters of substance descend with their orders and tax extortions.

One way or another: there will someday be hell to pay. Mark my words.

You, Burto: get a real job, you rotten slug.

[Dan Riehl]

Let;s keep the language clean and straight here. We have guests, other than the usual liberal trolls. ; )

Honest discussion is a good thing.

[NeoconBlonde]

No need for cold stares. My whole family is from upstate NY [Rochester and Elmira]. I went to school in Schenectady and have spent every summer in the Finger Lakes for the last 34 years. It was my touchstone for all the moving my family did growing up. In fact, my father lives about 45 miles west of Ithaca. No need to question my intent. I'm sure between the two of us, we could quickly come up with a dissertation on all of the ills that greedy governance has created. The county my dad lives in recently spent millions of dollars on a courthouse and government buildings that they can't even use while they have some of the worst poverty. It makes no sense.

[Tim McDonald]

See, where I disagree with the Mayor is I DON"T WANT MY CONGRESSMAN BRINGING HOME PORK! PERIOD! I DONT CARE if thats the way its done and everyone else is doing it.

If a project is worthwhile, give it an up or down vote on its own merits. Do NOT go to Washington and then tell me how many of MY TAX DOLLARS you gave to someone in my district! DONT CARE.

Give me conservatives, fiscal responsibility, and I don't care what party you are in, I WILL vote for you! And yes, that includes Democrats, there is a reason Bredesen is governor of a red state!

[Darth Venomous]

""I have no love for the Democrat, Owens, and I clearly have no love for Scozzafava in that post, so only an idiot would construe that as an 'endorsement,'" Mr. Moulitsas writes, in part."

Markos Moulitsas is nothing but a slimy little moron.

So he "resents" having the words from his own putrid piehole used against him? Too effin' bad. To paraphrase him from another time, "Screw 'im".

He said it to begin with, let him live with it. Welcome to Life 101, Kossack.

[James]

So Hoffman was nobodies favorite, and yet he has manuvered to the lead.

That's an incredible bit of political dexterity.
The man is a natural born master of the game.
You should embrace such a fellow as your man in Washington.
We are going to need all the cunning and guile we can get up until the 2010 elections, GOP willing...

[Billy Beck]

That's as honest as it gets, Dan.

You definitely picked the wrong word. Think about it and you'll agree.

[Billy Beck]

"No need to question my intent."

I said nothing of your intent.

Your attribution of the troubles to "the excesses of NYC" is myopic and ridiculous. I don't care how long your family has been connected here: you're wrong.

[gary gulrud]

"I just think there is a real danger in demagoguery of any ilk."

Sorry, you're twisting the logic into knots. Remember the Mears kerfuffle? I was pissed at the antagonism by 'conservatives' failing to support their President. But Alito was a far better choice, don't even bother rebutting.

By the same measure, there is absolutely no justification for proffering a DIABLO in NY-23, particularly at this time, and well may prove to be the opinion of plurality of its voters. Imputing the issue drums up base motives among your peers is obvious sophistry.

Were you indeed a neocon, GOP member-in-good-standing, we still wouldn't care! This is an own-goal, nothing more.

[NeoconBlonde]

Billy, Are you really saying that the excesses of NYC driven state policies has had NOTHING to do with what has happened to upstate NY? Please reconsider your statement. I agree that it was not the only factor and to say so would, in fact, be myopic. However, to deny that it was a significant one delegitimizes any plausible authority you might have on the matter entirely and makes me question your actual upstate New York credentials.

I'm kind of laughing at the bullying and bitter emotions directed toward me personally for asking questions. This issue is more complicated than a lot of people are making it out to be. Dan seems to be the only person who is taking the time to listen to both sides and try to find out the truth behind what is going on. Thanks for allowing me to come on here and ask questions and attempt to have an honest discussion. I'm not quite sure how asking questions qualifies as an own-goal [unless I'm misinterpreting the comment and it is regarding Ms. Scozzafava, my apologies if that is the case]. Perhaps if I were MORE conservative...

Looking forward to hearing why the local GOP felt that Hoffman was not qualified.

[gary gulrud]

I'm kind of laughing at the bullying and bitter emotions directed toward me personally for asking questions...I'm not quite sure how asking questions qualifies as an own-goal"

No, 'this' is decidedly not about you. Nor is it about the process that led to a three way race. It's about the result: a GOP last place, fading at the end, in their stronghold.

Now for those poking the entrails(not my job, I assure you), why is it that the former Mayor of Gouverneur failed to receive the ringing endorsement of her former constituents?

[Billy Beck]

"Billy, Are you really saying that the excesses of NYC driven state policies has had NOTHING to do with what has happened to upstate NY?"

Those are your words, not mine. All you have to do is read, Girl. I say what I say.

"However, to deny that it was a significant one delegitimizes any plausible authority you might have on the matter entirely and makes me question your actual upstate New York credentials."

{shrug} Look: if you think I'm lying, then just stand up and say so. Insinuations are for children and lawyers. And the word "significant" in your usage there is for weezils. It means nothing.

I'm telling you right now as clearly as it can be put: it is not New York City that is murdering New York State. It is Albany and all the local governments.

[NeoconBlonde]

Albany is dominated by lawmakers from NYC. They have the most representation in the state government, that fact is undeniable. During the Rockefeller & Cuomo years, those legislators and interests received more consideration than those of the less populated districts. Local governments got into the habit during that period having to tax heavily to offset the losses and problems caused by what was happening in Albany. Businesses left those areas and [working age] population soon followed. Now, we've got local governments still taxing and increasing on the spending on those who still remain without regard to the fact that their producing population has declined. These local governments need to drastically reduce their spending. In the Finger Lakes, those localities bank on the snowbird populations who claim residency elsewhere in order to avoid NYS taxes. They have no ability to vote or have any voice in their local government. Now with the new voter eligibility change, maybe we will see some of these things changing [At least in the retiree heave districts. I know Watertown has a significant snowbird population b/c of the Thousand Islands, maybe it will be positively affected.]

[James]

"a GOP last place, fading at the end, in their stronghold."

Guess again.

[NeoconBlonde]

That was supposed to read "in order to avoid NYS estate & income taxes". Sorry.

[Scott]

Ok so why was Doug last in our interviews.
First I will say Doug was a nice guy. He just was very shy and not well spoken. He had very little knownledge on the local issues. Which to this day he still knows very little. He bombed an editorial interview with the Watertown Daily Times even though the questions were in the paper that morning. The others were well prepared and talked about a number of issues both local and federal. Doug only talked about spending and what he did for Lake Placid, and his own business. Little about local issues like Fort Drum, Border Patrol and crossing issues and seaway shipping.
If anyone watch the debate last night you will understand just what I have explained. You can see for yourself that Dede does a much better job knowing the issues and understand legisation and how it will effect us in the North Country.

http://www.9wsyr.com/news/local/story/23rd-Congressional-debate-held-on-NewsChannel-9/YUpxhxHX9EajONK98F8n1Q.cspx

And to Bill I do work three jobs. Emailed Dan to share information on how it selection happened and her record. Wasn't trying to piss you off.