Updated: Audio: John Ziegler - David Keene - Exonerated?

Update: Ed Morrisey responds to Keene's addressing of the pay-for-play allegations, which you can read below. I'm somewhat amazed by it, frankly. More below. 

I find this argument unconvincing for a number of reasons.  Remember, Whitfield was working on a proposal that would have brought more than $2 million to the ACU.  It would be surprising indeed if Keene had taken so little interest in the project that he had never asked Whitfield for a presentation on the proposal before it went out the door.  The fact that Whitfield didn’t get fired for making this incredibly damaging offer, but was merely “reprimanded” instead, tends to indicate that either (a) Whitfield didn’t go off the reservation at all with this proposal but merely got caught at it, (b) Keene doesn’t take its implications seriously, or (c) both.

Whitfield offered to sell Keene’s integrity, and that of the other ACU board members.  Unless that was SOP around the ACU, it deserves more than a reprimand.  If Keene doesn’t understand that, he’s not the man to lead the organization any longer.

With all due respect to Ed, having spent 20 years in Corporate America, often managing sales and marketing teams under similar pressures to what key fund raisers are under, I find Ed's lack of acceptance to be potentially naive. Perhaps he lacks some understanding of how large organizations, especially one with a part-time head, often actually work. Micro-managing tends to be inefficient and proposals are generated all the time as a matter of course. Nor does he seem to appreciate the value and attitude of a good fund raiser, or salesman in a large ticket environment. Keep in mind, this was not a contract and wasn't written as such. I won't go on about specifics, but I doubt I would have reacted any other way than Keene did, myself. From an earlier post by Eric at RedState.

His point, above all else, was that he had no knowledge of the ACU letter. People, myself included, forget that Dave Keene, unlike many other leaders of conservative interest groups, is not a full time Chairman. He is not in charge of the day to day operations of ACU and did not participate in the negotiations with FedEx.

Unlike Ed, I have no reason to simply call David Keene a liar, which frankly, Ed basically does given his response. And things happen in the real world, one deals with them and moves on. I might have liked to sail over on the Mayflower with the rest of the Puritans, or now live in a perfect world; thankfully, I'm not quite as old as a Pilgrim, yet. And even they didn't discover a perfect world once they finally got off those damned boats.#

The final remaining allegation against David Keene, that the ACU is involved in some form of pay-for-play, is addressed in two ways below. I believe Keene to be exonerated of any wrong doing. You can judge for yourself. That investigation was finished this AM, after the Ziegler interview took place by doing research he and Mike Allen should have done prior to publishing or, in Ziegler's case, yelling any accusations at Keene.

Mike Allen broke an exclusive story about ACU President David Keene being involved in pay-for-play regarding a legislative dispute between FedEx and UPS and it went on to become a story of ACU positions being up for sale. As a member of the Grassroots who doesn't much care for the DC establishment, I accepted it at face value. Because of a recent controversy between John Ziegler and David Keene at W-CPAC and a planned interview with Ziegler, I went back to examine the evidence as preparation for the interview. 

After reviewing all available facts, there is no solid evidence to support accusations of some nefarious pay-for-play scandal, nor did the ACU change, or ever offer to change its position on the relevant legislation pending at the time.

As I understand the underlying issue UPS desired to have FedEx face a regulatory burden they did not then face. In essence, potential legislation would have forced FedEx to come under Teamster Union guidelines that would force FedEx to negotiate union contracts by location and not as one over-riding contract. FedEx felt this would create problems in timely service provision and add unnecessary administration which would have weakened them competitively. ACU maintained a single position in support of FedEx's position before, during and after the controversy and never indicated any desire, or willingness to change it. Additionally, at no time did they offer UPS any support on the legislation at hand, promotionally, or otherwise.

My conclusion on Ziegler's confrontation with Keene is that Ziegler had not done his homework, had no grasp of the verifiable facts, badgered and then followed Keene after Keene had tried to end the interview until he finally lost patience with him and had him removed so as to not disrupt a scheduled event. It's my opinion Keene acted prudently and in the best interests of conference goers after my much less confrontational interactions with Ziegler and review of his own video. Several times during our interview Ziegler resorted to insults, or attacks as I simply tried to get to the truth of the matter. He did not seem to want to hear any genuine evidence at all, often shifting the conversation to other points, or reacting with insults instead of engaging in productive discussion.

In my opinion, Ziegler may have been spurred on against Keene originally by quotes from Keene in a NewsMax article to which Ziegler took great exception as an inappropriate criticism of Sarah Palin. In reviewing those, I did not feel Keene crossed any lines, or tried to genuinely damage Palin. He expressed his opinion of the facts as they were. There may be cause for disagreement as to whether or not he should have made the statements but they are far from inflammatory, or inappropriate in my view.

All available evidence is presented, or linked below for thorough review. Based upon my interview with Ziegler (audio provided below) I don't believe Ziegler now accurately remembers the confrontation, what he did, or didn't confront Keene with in the way of facts, or factual statements, and mischaracterizes his video performance in that regard in our interview.

To adequately address the controversy due to Keene's confrontation with John Ziegler at W-CPAC, it's important to understand if any alleged pay-for-play, or position changing took place by Keene and the ACU in Federal Express versus UPS. Research and basic investigation Allen should have done before posting his item as a responsible journalist indicates the charges are unfounded. Both Keene and the ACU supported Federal Express's legislative position before, during and after any alleged pay-for-play affair, or secondary letter.

It's also important to understand what was actually in both of two controversial letters, one which Keene signed and when he signed it. Keene actually signed the letter on July 1st, though it was later dated July 15. While that matters in a related manner, it is not that significant as no position was ever reversed as has been alleged. In any event, it was signed one day after a letter from the ACU to FedEx seeking a contract for promotional services was submitted by another arm of the ACU and well before any response to the proposal by FedEx could have been expected. Were Keene actually being driven by the ACU's financial interests when the letter was signed, it would have been a bad idea to sign it in the first place, alienating FedEx on an extraneous issue that had nothing to do with any official position on pending legislation.

The second letter took exception to only a single misleading tactic in which FedEx was engaged while lobbying for their legislative position, a position shared by the ACU at that time, as well as before and after any controversy. The letter was signed by Keene at the request of a former Senator, then with Frontiers of Freedom and had nothing to do with any legislation of any type. The seemingly incomplete reporting of Mike Allen at The Politico did lead people to that conclusion and served as fodder for the Left in attempting to undermine conservatism, Keene and the ACU.

Dear Mr. Smith:

Weʼve been on record as opposing federal bailouts of failing businesses because they waste taxpayer money, reward businesses that are poorly run, skew the marketplace, and are well outside the proper role of our constitutionally limited government. So when FedEx claimed that UPS was seeking a government bailout, we were prepared to jump all over another wasteful government program. But after looking into FedExʼs claims, we realized that FedEx was not telling the truth. UPS was not seeking any taxpayer funds -- only regulatory reform that would insure equal treatment of both companies under our nationʼs labor laws.

FedExʼs campaign called “Brown Bailout” (www.BrownBailout.com) is designed to capitalize on public sentiment that is angry that hundreds of billions of dollars have been wasted in the name of bailouts. But since UPS is not seeking even one dime of taxpayer money, the campaign is essentially a disinformation campaign and should be stopped.

If FedEx wants to oppose the regulatory reform being sought by UPS, that is fine. But FedEx should use honest arguments and refrain from disingenuous and dishonest labels.

Consequently, any charges against Keene or the ACU for somehow changing positions for, or away from conservative causes due to financial concerns are unsupported by any evidence. As to allegations of any pay-for-play, that accusation rests upon the following included in a letter from the ACU's business arm to FedEx, dated just one day before the above letter was signed by Keene. This is one item in a comprehensive proposal detailing a total of 13 different efforts that could be undertaken as part of the promotional campaign.

Producing op-eds and articles written by ACU’s Chairman David Keene and / or other members of the ACU’s Board of Directors. (Note that Mr. Keene writes a weekly column that appears in The Hill.)

Given that another part of the proposal included the ACU hosting an internal web page on behalf of FedEx, it would be no secret that they were running a promotional campaign. And the campaign was not contrary to ongoing ACU lobbying efforts, or conservative beliefs. There is no evidence that the ACU somehow offered a similar paid campaign to UPS to take the opposite side of the legislative issue at hand.

The sole issue there, if there is one, is should the ACU invoke Keene's name, or the offer of a potential Op Ed as part of any paid promotional campaign. It should also be noted the ACU was not seeking a donation, but transacting a piece of business in the professional promotions area. I picked up the phone to reach the ACU on the one possibly remaining issue left open for some. While we did discuss the issue at length, for a statement they simply referred me to the very end of David Keene's Hill column of July 20th:

Last week an article in another publication alleged that I made an unethical proposal as chairman of the American Conservative Union to a potential contributor that could be read in part to imply that I might write a column in this space favorable to the contributor’s position.

Upon seeing this allegation I read the solicitation for the first time, found the inference appalling, and reprimanded the ACU staffer who wrote it. I have never used this column to benefit my clients or non-profits and never will.

As to Ziegler's charges of Keene's somehow mistreating Sarah Palin, this NewsMax item appears to be the source for that. While Ziegler more than once referred me to his video from W-CPAC for the quotes, I didn't find them, or a fair representation of them there. You can read the item linked above for yourself. As to any accusation of whining, this seems to be it.

“You’ve got to recognize that there are people who want you to fail,” Keene says. “And if you spend your time worrying about them, or whining about what they say, at the very least it’ll get you off your game, because you ought to be worried about what you’re going to do, not about what they’re going to do to you.”

In my own opinion, while Ziegler may display symptoms of a rabid Palin fan, or someone now out to get Keene and the ACU through all this, I can only conclude that judging the facts versus Ziegler's performance at W-CPAC indicates he was acting in some manner impossible to characterize as a responsible reporter of New Media, or Old. But that's my take. I've assembled the evidence as best I could to allow others to judge for themselves. I believe that, and not bullying people or being rude, is what honest brokers who want to be taken seriously and trusted as reporters, or bloggers can do. True believing activists might be able to get away with shooting for a different mark, for a while, anyway. But rarely for long and not usually for good effect. Certainly one is free to disagree, except perhaps at least with John Ziegler holding the camera or mic.

Additional new posts you should read as regards Ziegler versus Keene are from Ed at Hot Air. And also see J. Peter Freire at The American Spectator.

Ziegler interview audio - part 1.

Ziegler interview audio - part 2

Ziegler interview audio - part 3.

Ziegler at W-CPAC part 1. Ziegler's original report with the other two pieces of video here via Mediate.

Comments

[Bruce, NV]

The ACU's "business arm"? I'm sorry, but neither Keene, nor the ACU have credibility any more. Blow it up and start over.

Keene's involvment in the FedEx story stinks and it smells. The letter from Whitfield here http://www.conservative.org/pressroom/2008/StatementfromACU.asp

actually makes Keene look more, and not less, crooked. Ziegler is an ass, but Keene is no hero. Besides, 25 years at the helm is too long and makes hm a hack.

[Paul A'Barge]

David Keene: guilty as charged. Proven whore. Not a Conservative. Get out, Keene. Get out now.

[happyfeet]

I agree David Keene is a whore. And for the record no one paid me to say he's a whore I really really believe it in my heart.

[davis,br]

Thanks Dan. I may not always agree with you on the points, but you do this rather well. Kudos.

[montee]

The truth is neither Keene nor Ziegler are best served by their conduct in this whole affair. I would expect such behavior from Keene but Ziegler really went way overboard. Whatever his argument or problem he approached the interview wrongly right from the start and it only got worse after that, much worse. He has ended up hurting his credibility more than Keene's. Its really sad that he would behave that way and quite troubling that he seems not to realize he is only harming himself by carrying-on like this. I understand that we can all lose heads once in a while but it seems he can't even realize his own mistakes.

[happyfeet]

Ziegler is on our side though.

[Brian G.]

It's hard for me to get out of my mind the image of your lips planted so firmly on Keene's cheek (and I'm not talking his face) while reading this.

Maybe Ed has good reason to question Keene's honesty. This is a man, after all, who insisted that Arlen Specter was an honest conservative. Either he is willing to play loose with reality to suit his ends, or his perceptions are so distorted as to make his intentions irrelevant. In either case his judgment is highly suspect.

[Dan Riehl]

Yeah, well Brian G. said it, so, Gee, it MUST be true! Or do you just get off on pssin on other cons when not pssin on yourself, son?

[Brian G.]

Pet names like "son" only make you look intellectually insecure. Beyond that silly condescension, it's difficult for me to divine a point from that comment. I can vaguely detect a factual objection, but since you don't bother to point to what exactly that objection is, I have to rely on my best guess that it involves my characterization of Keene's support of Specter. Well here are his exact words:

"I've known and worked with Specter for more than a decade. . . . He is honest and decent, and, unlike many of his colleagues, his word is always good."

http://www.thehill.com/keene/052103.aspx

Give Specter's blatantly dishonest flip-flop, we now know this assertion is laughable. And it's not like Specter morphed from trustworthy individual to dishonest hack only after Keene made this claim. Rather, his characterization was seen as stupidly absurd at the time he made it: http://www.nationalreview.com/ponnuru/ponnuru052803.asp

Keene is no stalwart of conservatism. And if you don't want to get splashed, don't stand down-wind of the stream.

[ChuckTX]

You quoted:
As to any accusation of whining, this seems to be it.

“You’ve got to recognize that there are people who want you to fail,” Keene says. “And if you spend your time worrying about them, or whining about what they say, at the very least it’ll get you off your game, because you ought to be worried about what you’re going to do, not about what they’re going to do to you.”"

Did you seem to miss in the article on Palin:

"Sarah Palin needs to stop whining about unfair media coverage and get over the fact that some people don’t like her, Dave Keene, chairman of the American Conservative Union, tells Newsmax."

"Resigning as governor of Alaska only compounded Palin’s problems, which have been accumulating since the November election, Keene says.

“In the period leading up to the resignation, she needed to get over the fact that people didn’t like her,” Keene says. “Get over the fact that she harbored resentment for the McCain people that used her. All of those things are true, but she got more out of it than they did, and she had to begin to move on with what she needed to establish in terms of her own image, to move to the next level. And she delayed doing that."

""Now it becomes more difficult because of the way in which she bailed out on the governorship.”

Rather than creating the impression she is a quitter, Palin should have remained as governor and “carved out some time to run her operation nationally so she could get out of the state to do a few speeches,” Keene says."

That sounds like someone who is trashing another person, especially the most popular one in the party right now.

If he is trying to help Sarah, why say it to the news instead of in private to her??

So why defend Keene ?

[Sara]

We have very different takes on the Keene/Ziegler dust up. Frankly, I don't see how anyone can come away from the encounter without fully understanding that Keene must go. He is completely out of touch.

[david r]

Let's see Palin on an interview show. Huckabee is not afraid to go on one. And for the record, he is currently THE MOST POPULAR REPUBLICAN candidate, not Palin. Ziegler is a joke.

[Huey]

I come away from all this with the following:

1) Ziegler is an ass and a disgrace as a "reporter."
2) Palin needs to keep Ziegler as far away from her as possible.
3) Keene either needs to more fully engage with ACU or resign as such a solicitation being made without his knowledge or consent is difficult to believe of anyone who had even the smallest amount of control over the organization.
4) There is no solid evidence of a "pay for play" scheme, merely solid evidence of poor management by Keene and questionable behavior by Whitfield.

Move on...nothing to see here.