An Unfortunate But Necessary Post

Life would be so easy without principles. I'm afraid I must make one of those posts I honestly wish I didn't have to make. But principle simply won't allow that. While I recently posted that I respected Stephen Green aka VodkaPundit, I rather wish I hadn't made the claim and I'll leave it somewhat at that, speaking to it only as I feel I must.

Via lgf in response to Stephen Green. Evidently Charles has pronounced Stacy McCain a white supremacist.

Charles Johnson: Stephen Green has a “response” to a comment I posted earlier in one of the tea party threads. He deliberately omits the link to LGF, which makes this a rather odd sort of response — one I’m not intended to see, I guess.

Vodkapundit » A Response to Charles Johnson.

Over at LGF (no link, sorry) Charles Johnson notes that I’m taking phone calls from “white supremacist” Stacy McCain. (Thanks, Darlene.)

Now, I’ve worked with Stacy in person a couple of times, at the DNC last summer and at CPAC in February. Both were crowded, high-stress situations. At no time did I see Stacy treat anyone — of any color, creed, whathaveyou — with anything less than respect and good humor.

So, is Robert Stacy McCain a white supremacist? Hell if I know. But he enjoys breaking bread with agnostic half Jews like me, which would certainly make him a different kind of white supremacist.

Green elaborates in his own comments section more than once:

I’m no enemy of Charles Johnson (at least I don’t think so!) and he’s no enemy of mine. I simply reported what CJ said, and then told you what I’ve seen myself.

Absolutely, although I can’t do much more than reiterate what I’ve already said. I like Stacy, I’ve worked with Stacy a couple time, I’ve never heard or seen him say or do anything remotely racist.

As for the pissing match between CJ and Stacy, today’s the first I’ve heard of it, as I don’t read LGF and I don’t read RSM unless he sends me a link I find interesting. That’s not a slam on either one of them — I just don’t have time to read blogs the way I once did.

Also, I should have been more clear as to WHY I didn’t link CJ’s comment — I couldn’t make the link work! That’s probably my bad, but I couldn’t say for sure.

Other than that, I’d really rather stay out of this fight. I think it’s possible to get along with both guys, although — even as a non-believer — I find reports of CJ’s anti-religious rants a bit off-putting, same as I find RSM’s choice of paychecks.

While I'm unsure of the current state of the law, I believe calling someone a neo-nazi can, in some circumstances, be considered a libelous claim. I would not be surprised to learn that white supremacist were of a similar sort. It should be. In any event, it is a repugnant charge that no one should hurl lightly, or on thin, or no evidence, at another. And attempting to walk some middle line of equivocation between two people at odds over a statement like that is not an act I could ever respect.

I should add, someone tangential to the thing certainly has the right to simply ignore it. But to take up such a serious accusation only to attempt to occupy some middle ground, trying to please everyone, doesn't cut it by half. It is neither principled, nor helpful, as it only escalates the spurious charge. The comment should have been deleted and not responded to in my opinion. But it's Pajamas Media's and Green's blog, not my own. I think the choices made were unfortunate and very wrong.

I'll say no more, as I've no desire to create, or inflame any issue with Green.

I should also state that I strongly suspect, if not actually know, that Stacy will probably not have such qualms. It isn't the kind of man he is. Believe it or not, he always seeks comity over confrontation as a rule. So, I do not speak for him on that in any way, shape or form.

Stacy McCain is and can be many things. Some might not like some, or all of them. I've known him for at least a few years, exchanged emails, spoken on the phone many times, met him multiple times and was even with him yesterday on 9/12. In fact, I learned of all this as he had a phone call from Green while we were in a restaurant with some other bloggers. If not for that, I doubt I would have read all that I did on this today. I wish I hadn't but I did.

While not speaking for him, I will speak out strongly on his behalf. In all that time, through all those many conversations, Stacy has never once even mentioned race to me -regarding Obama, politics, or anything else. Were he a white supremacist, there is no way that would be the case in my opinion. So, I can conclude that he is not that.

I find the charge reprehensible, indefensible and irresponsible in the extreme. And it makes Charles Johnson more than worthy of being challenged and denounced as a rather repulsive and unsavory human being at this point. Perhaps he suffers from some personality disorder which gives him no control of himself. But as I neither know, nor care at this point, I will only respond to what I have read.

Furthermore, in the interests of full disclosure, I sent Charles a private email of support when he first distanced himself from Robert Spencer. It wasn't my intention then, or now, to support any, or all of Charles' claims about Robert Spencer. I simply disagreed with some of Spencer's tactics and writing. I had already made that quite well known on my blog long before Charles took the position he later did.

Now, as to Charles, which really is at the heart of all this, well, what I see is simply sad. There's no point in discussing what might be his issues or agenda, as it would ultimately be just a guess on my part. Whatever the case, it isn't anything I want any part of, nor can I conceive of wanting anything to do with Charles Johnson or lgf at this point.

This is an exquisite time for conservatism given the incredible success of the 9/12 protests around the country. And I am leaving this crap behind and returning to focus on that. But, as I consider myself a principled man, there are some lines I can not and will not walk. And the weakness and ugliness of all this left me with no option but to weigh in. As to any respect issues I've mentioned, the ernest and more serious things I say, or write here on my blog are important to me, so I wanted to clear this all up as best I could for my own peace of mind before I moved on. And now I'm done.

For better or worse .. worse, at times!! heh! Stacy McCain is my friend. He doesn't deserve to be accused as he has been by Johnson. And he certainly deserves strong support from me and any other of his alleged friends, or colleagues that want to make any claim to actually knowing the man a bit. It's Johnson that is now obviously unworthy of any more of my time. And, lastly, I do find that, as I also find Charles these days, to be somewhat sad.

Comments

[smitty]

Well stated throughout.
You're probably marked, and all both of Charles Johnson's supporters will now yap at you in the small dog fashion.

[Pinandpuller]

I guess we should wait for a statement from the original McCain decrying this guilt by association game that Charles Johnson is playing.

I quit going to lgf a long time ago but I peeked at it this morning to see what I've been missing:

CJ goes with a 60-70,000 person estimate for the tea-parties. Right.

Pictures of Ron Paul nuts, birthers and anti-choice fanatics-check.

Something about Richard Spencer self-avowed white nationalist. Someone forgot to show him Pamela Geller's bio.

Dipped into the comments. Lots of deletions and CJ doesn't like DeMint either-apparently.

CJ reminds me of Marlon Brando in Apocalypse Now. His site is a total waste of time.

[x11b1p]

I love how people call conservatives "white supremacists" and always gloss over the fact that real racists reside in the Dem party http://tinyurl.com/8dd36d (so much they don't teach in school these days). Being from the south (and being told since I can remember that because I am a white male I am responsible for all the ills of the world) I learned that 9 times out of 10 the person calling someone a racist is usually the actual racist! RSM does not need me to defend his honor b/c I am sure the bitch slap that he applies to cj will certainly be very entertaining and very effective, however I like RSM based on his blog and being a fellow brother in Christ as well as a fellow Conservative (as well as tired of being called a racist simply b/c of geography) I feel that RSM won't mind if I say in his defense that CJ is swirling the bowl, and eventually someone (like a RSM) will flush him down the tubes. Proverbs 16:18 - read it CJ, and fasten your seat belt because I think you just pissed on the leg of the wrong in your words CJ "white supremacist" from Georgia! And in true RSM fashion a video to go with this post : http://tinyurl.com/2nqgrw

[w3bgrrl]

Sad is the perfect word to describe what ever it is that is happening to Charles. This is the guy who mocked Dan Rather into retirement with one animated gif! In a way he's a hero of mine, but these days it's become similar to watching a favorite uncle decline into severe alcoholism. Sad.

[Enoch_Root]

Amen - those who shy away from stepping up to the plate in defense of those who are under attack without any cause are - erm - cowards.

McCain is anything but a racist - and it occurs to me that card is only played against the innocent when the accuser feels the sand beneath his feet shifting - with nothing to grab ahold of.

[Zaugg]

Chuckles will now label you with false claims. If your milkman once went to a John Birch meeting, you are culpable. If your neighbor once visited the Confederate Museum, you are responsible. Charles has left the building.

[templar knight]

Charles Johnson has gone completely off his rocker. It has been so sad watching this guy lose his mind.

[Barbara]

CJ must be feeling neglected that he is trying to start another war with other bloggers. He was useful at one time, God provides us all free will, I for one find no sadness in CJ's endless need to make things about him.
Dan you and Stacy and Robert and Pamela as well as the countless others are doing the Lord's work faggetabout the ankle biters.
What a glorious few weeks this has been so many bloggers are kicking the crap out
of the left and antiAmericans, we need you focused and as the leaders you have been , stay focused and thanks.

[Barbara]

test test test

[Pablo]

Charles has clearly lost his mind. It's too bad, as LGF used to be one of the best sites on the web. But it's been years since that was true.

[USMC]

x11b1p,

Kick ass post! I bookmarked your links! Thanks.

[BrideOfRove]

I've never read LGF but I recently started reading RSM's blog. Entertaining as hell and strangely addictive -- as is this blog. I especially love the fact that neither blog backs away from places most bloggers fear to tread. Never change.

[Barbara]

Pablo,
his blog was great due to others, I recall very few posts that came from himself including the selective memory wormhole claims of him busting Dan Rather, his never was him glory days. That was a poster and other posters he just took media credit for after the hat tip... yawnnnnn.

[Dan Riehl]

WPE's comment was deleted. WPE - read Stacy's post, he already dealt with this.

[WPE]

How about his defense of Emmitt Till's murder. Did he deal with that as well?

"Was Till's killing racially motivated? Certainly, at least in part -- just as Till's initial action toward Carolyn Bryant was racially motivated. Till thought he could impress his relatives and friends by defying the customs of rural Mississippi. He succeeded too well. Roy Bryant returned home to find that Till's insulting behavior toward his wife was the talk of the community. Not merely was this a challenge to Bryant's personal honor, but to the peculiar community standards of that place and time. Roy Bryant either had to do something about Till, or become a pariah and/or a laughingstock in his community."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emmett_Till

Till's mother insisted on a public funeral service, with an open casket so as to show the world the brutality of the killing: Till had been beaten and an eye gouged out, before he was shot through the head and thrown into the Tallahatchie River with a 70-pound cotton gin fan tied to his body with barbed wire.

[Hulahoop Conquistador]

Steve Green is a 3rd QB on his best day. I have nothing against him personally, but he suffers greatly by comparison to his colleagues at PJM. The lack of talent might explain his need to avoid taking a controversial (within his circles) stand.

[Whippet]

There is no resemblance of the Charles Johnson before BHO was elected to the Charles Johnson after BHO was elected. He's become arrogant, paranoid, nasty, child-like in his insults and has an army of like-minded drones attacking anyone who disagrees with him.

Reading his blog and the comments from his followers is like reading DailyKos or democratic underground. He has developed his own cult of personality.

[David R. Graham]

VodkaPundit long has struck me as equivocal, so I long-since forswore attending the blog unless linked by a trusted one.

In my experience, equivocation is the public face and sound of one or more of three qualities: cowardice, psychotropic drugs, homosexuality.

Pajamas Media always has felt to me as Pajamas Media. Self-promoters. I read Glenn daily, grateful for his work, but he's an equivocator, too: ever heard him promote tort reform? Promote, not just mention, promote? And Whittle repels me with hyped delivery of cocksure revised revisionism. Not buying it, don't waste time on it.

PJM is for PJM.

I admire Stacy McCain and love him for who he is and what he does. I do not know him personally and expect never to. But I admire him from afar because he is a man in the sense of a human being living his life without deceit as God gives him light to live it. Such a man is admirable and very moral. Stacy is a man in whose presence men feel safe.

[Robohobo]

CJ has made himself a moby.

So sad.

[MPH]

Defend Stacy McCain all you please-- but writing for Taki Magazine (owned by the self-proclaimed anti-semite Taki Theodoracopulos and edited by by the outspoken white nationalist Richard Spencer), the xenophobic VDARE, and being a member of the League of the South (and other associated groups) speaks much louder than any words you might choose to defend him.

[Pinandpuller]

MPH

Is white nationalist akin to black liberation theology?

[Whippet]

"237 Charles
Sun, Sep 13, 2009 1:11:19pm replyquote 2downupreport

"By the way, please post links here of Nazi imagery at the protest. I've already found lots of them, but I intend to rub Powerline's stupid denial post (they're claiming Nazi imagery was not popular at the demo) in their faces, and as many as possible would be good."

Charles Johnson has officially left reality as we know it. He's acting like a child and a bully.

[x11b1p]

MPH, please link to any instances of fact based evidence that RSM is a racist. You and CJ are a bunch of jack legs and should be ashamed of yourselves for saying something as incendiary about a person without providing fact based evidence to support your claim. I don’t want some type of six degrees of separation banks shot crap, give me irrefutable facts, and produce the articles, video, and pictures. If you are in fact correct –prove it, and if you can’t, then stop this ass hattery type of witless churl behavior. Are either of you adults? If so this should be beneath the both of you, especially if either of you are anything but a progressive liberal. Oh, and while you are at it MPH, please link to your anti-racist bona fides. I am hoping to see a thesis on how you rebuke and chastise the Democratic Party for fighting against civil rights legislation for a 100 years and all but starting the KKK, as well as I would love to read your thoughts on how you take to task: Van Jones, Rev. Wright, and yes Obama regarding the Skip Gates arrest comment. I look forward to reading you comments on all of the much bigger “racists” than the supposed according to you and CJ -RSM.

[x11b1p]

"x11b1p, Kick ass post! I bookmarked your links! Thanks".

thanks, I served with a bunch of you Marines, Anglican Marines and Force Recon Marines - crazy dudes!

[Jaynie59]

Shame on you for supporting Charles when he went after Robert Spencer. No matter how much you may disagree with Spencer's style or tactics the man was attacked as a racist. Charles didn't simply "distance" himself from Robert, he set out to destroy his reputation.

Oh, but now that CJ has attacked a friend of yours it's different? No, it isn't. It's the same thing and you, and people like you, are probably why CJ keeps doing it. Shame on you.

[Ad rem]

I think yesterday must have been a very difficult day for Charles and and his pals on the left. It was a real visual slap in the face, and a portent of things to come for the Democrat party. Charles is simply doing what libs do best.....trying to divide us....for when you are at war with the world, you want everyone else to choose a side.

I thought one of the commenters over at Vodkapundit named "Obi-Wandreas" put it well, " ......what man who has known the touch of a woman has time to read 700 comments on every post?". ;-)

[dicentra]

I looked at the links that Charles provided, and the only damning quotations attributed to RSM are the following:

"[T]he media now force interracial images into the public mind and a number of perfectly rational people react to these images with an altogether natural revulsion. The white person who does not mind transacting business with a black bank clerk may yet be averse to accepting the clerk as his sister-in-law, and THIS IS NOT RACISM, no matter what Madison Avenue, Hollywood and Washington tell us."

That's from New York Press, and there's no link to where he got that quote.

Then there's this from the extremely unreliable Southern Poverty Law Center, again with no source:

Or, as LOS [League of the South] member and Washington Times national reporter Robert Stacy McCain says in an essay posted on the League’s main site, slavery was 'generally' characterized by 'cordial and affectionate relations between white and black Southerners.'"

As for the first quote, which has been circulated throughout the internet, this entry at AllExperts quotes RSM as roundly denying having said that thing.

The provenance of the second quote is dubious as well. They allege that he said these things on white supremacist web sites that no longer exist, so hey, allege away!

[Stogie]

Dan and friends,

I have personal knowledge of McCain's views on race going back to 1995 and yes, he is NOT a racist.

See my explanations at:
http://saberpoint.blogspot.com/2009/09/robert-stacy-mccain-i-know-him-better.html

[Stogie]

dicentra,
Having read two books on the history of American slavery, I can attest to the accuracy of whoever commented on cordial relations between master and slave being common in the ante-bellum South. During the Great Depression the Writer’s Project was part of the WPA and many former slaves were interviewed and their testimony written down. They, the former slaves, are the ones who described this politically incorrect truth. If something is factually true, it cannot be “racist.”

There was a practical reason (as well as a humanitarian one) for being kind to the slaves: happy slaves were more productive and did not try to run away.

Whether McCain ever said it or not is irrelevant. Web sources attribute the remark to one that McCain allegedly stated in a speech to Sons of Confederate Veterans.

The first comment on interracial marriage was spoken by Michael Hill, President of the League of the South. It was misattributed to McCain and other bloggers, including CJ at LGF, repeated it, as did the Southern Poverty Law Center. I have been friends with McCain for 15 years and he has always known that I am in an interracial marriage. It is highly doubtful that McCain cares who marries whom (as long as they are of the opposite sex).

[x11b1p]

Stogie thanks for what you posted! Allowing these baseless claims on RSM is an affront to logic and reason and should not be tolerated by anyone that thinks and has a moral compass that works.

[Dan Riehl]

"Shame on you for supporting Charles"

You're being obtuse. I sent him a private email sharing my own concerns. I never joined, or endorsed his public jihads against any of the alleged enemies he appears to see all around him these days.

[Scott in OC]

The world according to LGF (in a concise bar chart format):

http://cheezburger.com/view.aspx?ciid=5126357

[Jay Stevens]

MPH wrote:
"... and edited by by the outspoken white nationalist Richard Spencer"
I am guessing from context that we are talking about Robert Spencer here. MPH is 2/3's correct. RS is outspoken and he is white.

[Jay Stevens]

Whoops. Never mind. There is a Richard Spencer.

[WestWright]

I tend to use a bit of homegrown macro-analysis when evaluating blogs. IMO the trends are reflected in comments as viewed by simple sampling. The stench that we see now with C. Johnson and S. Green's blogs has been evidential in the comments for a while...and no I do not think Stacy McC is racist by any stretch.

[MPH]

Jay -- Richard Spencer is a self-proclaimed proud white nationalist and a good friend to and editor for RSM (at Taki Magazine). They have both more than once publicly defended each other on their respective blogs. Truly disgusting.

It is nice to see additional confirmation from Stogie (at saberpoint.blogspot) that RSM is/was indeed a member of the League of the South, since RSM always deflects and obfuscates the accusation when confronted with it.

[Robert Spencer]

MPH is a relentless libeller and smearmonger, a hardcore pro-jihad Leftist and an accomplice of Charles Johnson. Approach anything he or his wife, Kejda Gjermani, says with extreme caution.

[Robert Spencer]

Oh and by the way, Dan Riehl: I am up for a debate anytime, and am happy to explain and defend my "tactics and writing." I doubt you are interested, as usually those who oppose my work are dogmatic believers in something-or-other that they are unable or unwilling to defend, but if you are up for it, let's go -- either online or in person, you name it.

And I agree with Jaynie59: not to condemn Johnson's campaign of personal destruction, lies and smears because you dislike what I say is, well, weaselly at best. But I won't hold it against you. Let's talk -- I expect it would clear up a lot of questions that many people have. I'm at director@jihadwatch.org. Contact me anytime.

[Robert Spencer]

For "not to condemn" I should have written "to privately approve of." That is: "To privately approve of Johnson's campaign of personal destruction, lies and smears because you dislike what I say is, well, weaselly at best."

Still, even though we're not off to a good start, I would be happy to have an open and mutually respectful debate of the pertinent issues, if you are willing. I look forward to hearing from you.

[Dan Riehl]

"Oh and by the way, Dan Riehl"

Robert, don't mischaracterize this. I disclosed an email which was the right thing to do for heaven's sake, as I didn't want Charles to use it against me to suggest I was somehow being dishonest in my criticism of him now. Get it?

We "had" the discussion back when Bryan Preston was still at Hot Air. And it was done completely publicly at the time.

If you wish to dredge up history for some reason, go for it. I assume yopu have the means to publish somewhere. But don't expect me to pick up arguments at least a year or more old because you're so inclined. I've more timely issues to focus on just now.

[Robert Spencer]

Dan Riehl:

You brought it up, I didn't. You went out of your way to mention it in your post. But you don't want to talk about it. Got it. Logged and noted.

The game you're playing is obvious.

[Dennis D]

I first learned of LGF during the Rathergate episode and was a regular visitor for a while but as Rathergate died down I found little reason to return as it seemed like a left wing blog akin to DailyKos.

[Dan Riehl]

Look Spencer, don't be an idiot. You're looking like a wack job to me. If I hadn't mentioned it, - well, I already explained it above. And everyone knows about Charles issues with you. You really are a bit out of whack job it appears.

And you're an insignificant one to me, maybe that's your real problem. As I recently said in another post on another topic, go sell crazy some place else.

[Robert Spencer]

Now there's a sober, reasoned response!

[Barbara]

This is heartbreaking.
I read and respect both of a great deal.
This is how punks like CJ get their thrills starting fights with people he
doesn't like.
Please gentlemen, can't for the sake of America you both agree CJ is an
anklebiter and get back to the wonderful job you both do on your blogs?
with love and Prayers,B

[Robert Belvedere]

Great job, Dan.

Quoted from and linked to at: STACY MCCAIN: 'A FINE MAN OF OUTSTANDING CHARACTER'