ABC Reports 2 Million At DC Rally

Via Twitter Michelle Malkin has it Tweeted, as well.

Comments

[anon]

Just want to point out that if you go to NYTimes web site the photo they show has only about a half a dozen people on it.

Hilarious and sooooo typical.

[mark l.]

2 million?

it breaks the largest record crowd for DC, which, ironically, was the obama inauguration with 1.8 million which was less than 8 months ago.

I never thought reconcilation was a viable option for the dems, but this crowd is gathered BEFORE the die has been cast. If I were Boehner, I'd do two things:

move to the right/join the crowd, and start measuring the drapes for pelosi's office.

[Faraday Cage]

Linky please for the ABC estimate? Want to spread it around.

[mark l.]

just flipped around on the tv...

msnbc is actually running a show called "healthcare rally" from 12:30-2pm. They even managed to get people in a basketball arena...a lot of empty seats.

just caught pence/demint on beck. solid.

[your worst nightmare]

Hate to spoil your party...but I just went to the ABC news website and THEIR estimate is "tens of thousands"!!!!

It doesn't help the credibility of your cause when you make things up.

[Ad rem]

ABC originally had the report up citing 2 million people. THEY changed their page.

[rrpjr]

"Hate to spoil your party..."

Happy to spoil yours. It aint "tens of thousands." Capitol Police are estimating close to a million, and rock bottom conservative estimate is 450,000. And no one was making anything up, just reporting what ABC said. But I can see the urge to project, since the Left fabricates their numbers as a matter of course.

[Skylark]

Well if ABC or the Capitol police are (or were) really estimating it at 2 million "close to a million" it shouldn't be too hard to find an actual source besides third hand tweets, should it?

Go right ahead. We'll wait.

[Skylark]

2 million OR "close to a million"

[Skylark]

"ABC originally had the report up citing 2 million people. THEY changed their page."

Then it should be pretty easy to find a cached shot of the page. Please do.

[anon]

It should be pretty easy to figure out how many people are there.

All you need to do is compare the shots from the inauguration crowd or other crowds with this crowd...how many blocks long is the march.

And if the media doesn't shoot any arial shots then you can assume that its bigger than Obama's inauguration crowd and they don't want to know that fact.

[Skylark]

Ah yes, it seems to be all about assumptions.

[Faraday Cage]

Ed Driscoll has an aerial shot, and it's a doozy. Plus, look at this timelapse, amazing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_sjvc6baor8

[North Dallas Thirty]

I see the libbies like Skylark are sitting here whining and screaming about "facts".

Well, let's give them some.

The nonpartisan Congressional Research Service states that, unlike Obama claims, Obama's bills WILL cover illegal immigrants.

http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/blogs/beltway-confidential/Obamacare-wont-cover-illegal-immigrants--55021087.html

The nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office says that Obama's preventative care will not, unlike Obama claims, reduce costs -- and will in fact increase them.

http://politicalderby.com/2009/08/11/cbo-says-expanded-preventative-care-will-increase-cost/

The nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office says that Obama's health plans, rather than "bending the curve" of costs downward and saving money like Obama claims, will show no savings and will in fact vastly INCREASE costs.

http://blogs.abcnews.com/thenote/2009/07/cbo-sees-no-federal-cost-savings-in-dem-health-plans.html

Now, since that proves Obama is a complete and total liar -- again, with facts -- do Skylark and the other leftist trolls who are trying to attack the protesters have anything useful to contribute? Or would they like to explain why they support Obama's lies?

[Skylark]

Love how you put the word "facts" in quotation marks, NDT. Of course you have nothing to say about the "facts" I requested. Very telling.

By the way, I suggest you read the actual CRS report, not a blogger's secondhand spin on the report.

For example:

To be eligible for the credits under §242 of H.R. 3200, individuals must be lawfully present in a
state in the United States, but generally not in the United States temporarily (i.e.,
nonimmigrants).29 Nonimmigrants—that is, foreign nationals who are admitted to the United
States for a specified period of time and a specific purpose—are “lawfully present,” but most,
with exceptions noted below, would be ineligible for the credits under H.R. 3200. The exceptions
for nonimmigrants who could obtain credits under H.R. 3200 would be trafficking victims, crime
victims, fiancées of U.S. citizens, and those who have had applications for legal permanent
residence (LPR) status pending for three years; these individuals are likely to become LPRs (i.e.,
immigrants) and remain in the United States permanently. Furthermore, §246 would bar
unauthorized aliens from receiving any premium or cost-sharing credit.3

......

...[U]nder §142(a)(3) of
the bill, it is the responsibility of the Health Choices Commissioner (Commissioner) to administer
the 'individual affordability credits under subtitle C of title II, including determination of
eligibility for such credits.' Thus, it appears, absent of a provision in the bill specifying the
verification procedure, that the Commissioner would be responsible for determining a mechanism
to verify the eligibility of noncitizens for the credits."

http://ryanjames.us/HR3200NonCitizen.pdf

Now, anytime you can post the actual "facts" I asked for ... valid sources for the size of the crowd ... feel free to do so. Otherwise, you can go down those twisty little detours yourself.

[Lala]

Does google keep pages before they are changed? "Cached" pages? If so, then why do a lot of bloggers grab screenshots before they disappear down the memory hole, as they say?

[anon]

Skylark,

Unless there are enforcement provisions to prevent non residents from accessing taxpayer subsidized services, then they will.

Saying "you can't do that" isn't effective when dealing with a 5 year old, let alone 20 million illegal aliens.

[USMC]

Skylark is whining because his progressive movement is led by traitors and wimps and with all the power they have they're getting pushed back by a bunch of "bitter clingers".

You progressives are like the Tories of old. Washington described these Tories and it describes the progressives as well: "By all accounts there never existed a more miserable set of beings than these wretched creatures now are."

Since you're a progressive surely you don't know American history. A Tory was one who was loyal to the King and against the Revolution. Our Founders were against all odds like we are and they won. We will too. I long for the day when the word progressive becomes a cuss word and according to Rasmussen that day is around the corner: "Progressive” is becoming more of a dirty word, but all political labels – except “being like Ronald Reagan” - are falling into disfavor with many U.S. voters - Rasmussen.

How's that possible? You have all branches of government, the mainstream media, entertainment industry, education, you've killed over 50 million babies, you've destroyed the black family yet you're getting pushed back.

So go ahead and whine about numbers, trash real Americans, piss on the sacrifice of our troops, rip our police and rescue workers and paint walls to "celebrate" 9/11. Ram legislation against the will of the people.

History has come full circle. We're fighting tyranny and this Tory named skylark doesn't know he's on the losing side of history. I kinda feel bad for you.

[Lala]

Up to two million march to US Capitol to protest against Obama's spending in 'tea-party' demonstration

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1213056/Up-million-march-US-Capitol-protest-Obamas-spending-tea-party-demonstration.html

[Skylark]

Dear anon:

I suggest you re-read the CRS report excerpt I posted. And then read the bill.

The Health Care Commissioner is required to set standards for determining eligibility for premium credits under the bill, to ensure compliance with its provisions. This of course includes the provision prohibiting illegal aliens from receiving the credits.

[Lala]

"As the furor continues over the cry of “You lie!” by Rep. Joe Wilson (R-S.C.) during President Obama’s address on health care on Wednesday (September 9), the national media omits two important details: 1) that a non-partisan study earlier this year backed up Wilson’s conclusion hat the Obama health care measure (H.R. 3200) does, in fact, cover illegal immigrants, and 2) that Wilson was correct when he told HUMAN EVENTS a day after his outburst that Republican attempts to amend the measure to deny benefits for illegal immigrants were thwarted in two key House committees.

A study by the non-partisan Congressional Research Service (and cited by Wilson in his interview with us) dealt precisely with how illegal aliens would be treated by the Obama-backed health care measure. Entitled “Treatment of Noncitizens in H.R. 3200” and authored by Alison Siskin (a specialist in immigration policy) and legislative attorney Erika Lunder, the eight-page study was released by the CRS on August 26, 2009.

Among its conclusions are that “H.R. 3200 does not contain any restrictions on noncitzens participating in and paying for coverage available through the [Health Insurance] Exchange -- whether the noncitizens are legally or illegally present, or in the United States temporarily or permanently [italics added].” (see “Summary,” “Treatment of Noncitizens in H.R. 3200”).

In addition, the CRS study concluded that the bill’s changes to the Medicaid and State Children’s Health Insurance Program (CHIP) “ could also mean that more noncitizens who meet the categorical and income eligibility standards for Medicaid but are barred due to their immigration status (e.g., nonimmigrants, unauthorized aliens) would be eligible for emergency Medicaid [italics added].” (See “Treatment of Noncitizens in H.R. 3200,” Page Six) "

from Human Events

[Mrs. Peperium]

"If I were Boehner, I'd do two things: move to the right/join the crowd, and start measuring the drapes for pelosi's office."

Heh.

The third thing Boehner needs to do: become Joe Wilson's best friend on Capitol Hill...

[Skylark]

The Daily Mail? Seriously?

Okay, so without quoting a single source, they say "UP to two million" and then describe the crowd as "tens of thousands."

Sounds like they're working off Malkin's tweets AND the newswires.

[Faraday Cage]

Coffee260 has an amazing picture. Leftards will weep.
http://twitpic.com/hhlju

[Skylark]

Dear Lala -

Once again, I suggest you read the actual CRS report, not someone's secondhand take on it.

The exchange proposed under the bill allows people to buy private health insurance. It does not restrict anyone's current eligibility to purchase private insurance. Illegal aliens can already buy private health insurance. However, they cannot receive a premium subsidy...that is expressly prohibited.

Illegal aliens can already receive emergency services under medicaid.

[Faraday Cage]

Look at all these pictures... and let us suppose even the NYT or the WaPo admits it was, say, one million. Do you think that will prevent the leftards from dismissing it? "So it was a million gap-toothed rednecks." They will just retreat into denial. The actual number is no longer important, the pictures tell it all.

[Faraday Cage]

Turns out that photo is old, but check out the M K Ham photo on Ed Driscoll's page, it's the same size of crowd
http://pajamasmedia.com/eddriscoll/2009/09/12/overhead-tea-party/

[WPE]

USMC -- Lose your Meds?

Clue for you, Progressives are Real Americans.

Too bad the Teabaggers weren't around a few years ago. They could have helped out on this stuff:

"On every major measurement, the Census Bureau report shows that the country lost ground during Bush’s two terms. While Bush was in office, the median household income declined, poverty increased, childhood poverty increased even more, and the number of Americans without health insurance spiked. By contrast, the country’s condition improved on each of those measures during Bill Clinton’s two terms, often substantially."

http://politics.theatlantic.com/2009/09/closing_the_book_on_the_bush_legacy.php

Illegals can buy insurance today. They'll be banned from getting any assistance - credits. But the status quo will remain the same.

And if you actually kick all the illegals out of the country, the economy will grind to a halt. Nobody to pick fruits and vegetables, do much of the construction work. work in meat-packing, clean the hotel rooms, etc.

[Lala]

Faraday, some are saying that photo you refer to is a fake.

[Skylark]

Uh, Faraday Cage, that picture is from the 1997 Promise Keepers' rally.

http://throughtheveil.wordpress.com/2008/02/25/and-the-glory-of-the-lord/

Coffee260 might weep with embarrassment.

[ruby]

Skylark, I looked at the one Faraday linked to and the one you linked to. I'm sorry, but these are totally different pictures. At least, they look different to me.

[North Dallas Thirty]

"While Bush was in office, the median household income declined, poverty increased, childhood poverty increased even more, and the number of Americans without health insurance spiked."

Of course -- because the definitions of "poverty" and "without health insurance" changed.

For example, in 2000, the definition of "poverty" for a family of four (two adults and two children) was $17,463. In 2008, it was $21,834.

http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/poverty/threshld.html

How is it that liberals never mention that fact? After all, the fact that you are changing the value for poverty would invariably affect the number of people who qualified as poor, no?

Or when it comes to health insurance. Of course, what liberals never mention is that annoying little statistic of people who are eligible for it, but choose not to sign up. Why is that considered to be the President's problem?

And as for median household income declining, that of course depends on where you measure it.

In 2007, the median annual household income rose 1.3% to $50,233.00 according to the Census Bureau.[4] The real median earnings of men who worked full time, year-round climbed between 2006 and 2007, from $43,460 to $45,113.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Household_income_in_the_United_States

Historically, median household income fluctuates up and down due to expansions and recessions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Household_income_65_to_05.png

To counter that, duplicitous Obama Party propagandists simply manipulate the dates so that they can always count in a way that is most advantageous to an Obama Party member. When you look at the depths of the recessions that the leftist Carter and Clinton left, of course it takes time to grow out of those. Contrast that with the flat income stream left by the first President Bush, which, coupled with a Republican-led Congress that forced Clinton to require Obama Party welfare addicts to get jobs and to significantly cut spending.

And before WPE, who always does so, starts blabbering and spinning and whining that Carter and Clinton can't be held responsible for recessions, may we remind him that he and his Obama Party are blaming Bush for handing them the one that Obama is intensifying?

[WPE]

Sounds like the crowd was 70,000 tops.

These are the two pics - they're the same and not from today's rally.

http://twitpic.com/hhlju

http://throughtheveil.wordpress.com/2008/02/25/and-the-glory-of-the-lord/

[Lala]

Instapundit has a photo that has the flag at half mast. Someone wrote and told him that the traffic cams seem to be behaving strangely. Tampering?

[North Dallas Thirty]

"And if you actually kick all the illegals out of the country, the economy will grind to a halt. Nobody to pick fruits and vegetables, do much of the construction work. work in meat-packing, clean the hotel rooms, etc."

Wrong. With 10% unemployment, there are literally millions of people looking to fill those jobs.

The problem is that lazy welfare addicts like yourself don't want to work, WPE. You want to sit at home and cash your checks rather than lifting a finger. Indeed, you and your fellow Obama Party members screamed bloody murder when the Republican-led Congress forced through a bill requiring welfare recipients to get jobs.

What makes it really ironic is that doing so created the "declining poverty" numbers that your propaganda source touts for Clinton. Clinton opposed welfare-to-work. He wanted welfare to remain unlimited and for people to remain in poverty. When you require people to work to collect benefits, it's amazing -- they actually LEAVE welfare and end up increasing their income.

We understand that you, like Barack Obama, have never worked an honest day in your life and consider the jobs you let illegals do to be beneath you. But there are plenty of honest, hardworking people out there who would be more than happy to have them. The fact that neither you or Obama is willing to work doesn't mean that no one else is; it just means that you're lazy and shiftless.

[Lala]

Illegals would be allowed to buy insurance through the govt subsidized health exchange.

[USMC]

"USMC -- Lose your Meds?" I dismantled you in another post and this is all you got?

"Clue for you, Progressives are Real Americans. " I love it when Progressives claim to be REAL Americans when challenged yet they spend their whole lives pissing on America, her ideals, her Foundation, her Founders, the military that defends her. I didn't know REAL Americans were fascist eugenicists.

Hey Progressive why don't you go the inner city and ask the folks what they think of the Progressive heroine Margaret Sanger's "Negro Project"? Explain in detail and quote that witch. Tell me how iy goes. http://www.cwfa.org/articledisplay.asp?id=1466&department=CWA&categoryid=life

Your response is pathetic. I can't believe you are bitching about how many showed up. Which tells me you're very concerned. As you should be. Progressivism is political gonorrhea and the Constitution is the cure. Do America a favor and get you some Constitution, I promise that burning discomfort will go away.

"Facts are a stubborn thing!"

[North Dallas Thirty]

Meanwhile, what was the silly Skylark whining about?

"By the way, I suggest you read the actual CRS report, not a blogger's secondhand spin on the report."

Ah yes, the loophole which Obama was screaming and insisting didn't exist -- which he admitted existed last night.

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2009/09/11/2065287.aspx

Meanwhile, there were two other points:

The nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office says that Obama's preventative care will not, unlike Obama claims, reduce costs -- and will in fact increase them.

http://politicalderby.com/2009/08/11/cbo-says-expanded-preventative-care-will-increase-cost/

The nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office says that Obama's health plans, rather than "bending the curve" of costs downward and saving money like Obama claims, will show no savings and will in fact vastly INCREASE costs.

http://blogs.abcnews.com/thenote/2009/07/cbo-sees-no-federal-cost-savings-in-dem-health-plans.html

[joyMc]

Are you listening now Barry?...Nancy?.....Harry?

[Mark Turner]

Difficult to judge the full scale of the crowd from a few random photos; if there is wide angle footage, it could be compared to known crowd sizes from previous events such as presidential inaugurations, MLK's "I Have a Dream" speech, etc. One could also get a rough estimate based upon approximate density of people in an area of known size. Regardless, I think the tea party movement has made a strong statement here. Whether the politicians are listening or taking it seriously, we will know by their actions in weeks to come. If they are dismissive, they will see the history of 1994 congressional elections repeating itself in 2010, with heavy incumbent losses for the Dems. Clinton's approval ratings were about where Obama's are now; congressional leadership approval ratings in 1994 were extremely poor, as they are in 2009. There is no reason to expect a profoundly different outcome at this point.

[WPE]

I wouldn't put that much faith in the CBO numbers, they're not infallible and have often been wrong in the past.

As for the CBO's argument that preventative care ends up costing more money, there are plenty of people that disagree with that. For example, getting people into inexpensive wellness programs to control things diet and obesity before they lead to serious health problems would save literally tns, possibly hundres of billions of dollars.

[Lala]

Take a gander at what Acorn wants

http://www.acorn.org/index.php?id=718

[North Dallas Thirty]

"As for the CBO's argument that preventative care ends up costing more money, there are plenty of people that disagree with that."

But medical facts are significantly different.

"An article published last year in the New England Journal of Medicine provides a good summary of the available evidence on how preventive care affects costs. After reviewing hundreds of previous studies of preventive care, the authors report that slightly fewer than 20 percent of the services that were examined save money, while the rest add to costs. Providing a specific example of the benefits and costs of preventive care, another recent study conducted by researchers from the American Diabetes Association, the American Heart Association, and the American Cancer Society estimated the effects of achieving widespread use of several highly recommended preventive measures aimed at cardiovascular disease—such as monitoring blood pressure levels for diabetics and cholesterol levels for individuals at high risk of heart disease and using medications to reduce those levels. The researchers found that those steps would substantially reduce the projected number of heart attacks and strokes that occurred but would also increase total spending on medical care because the ultimate savings would offset only about 10 percent of the costs of the preventive services, on average. Of particular note, that study sought to capture both the costs and benefits of providing preventive care over a 30-year period."

http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/104xx/doc10492/08-07-Prevention.pdf

Next up:

"For example, getting people into inexpensive wellness programs to control things diet and obesity before they lead to serious health problems would save literally tns, possibly hundres of billions of dollars."

Versus simply telling people to eat less and exercise.

Meanwhile, there's a foolproof way to deal with that; simply charge those who choose to be obese more for health insurance, just like the insurance companies currently do for tobacco users.

[Mark Turner]

I link from the NY Times online:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/13/us/politics/13protestweb.html

"A sea of protesters filled the west lawn of the Capitol and spilled onto the National Mall on Saturday in the largest rally against President Obama since he took office..."

I don't know the exact size of the west lawn or National Mall, but it gives you an idea of the scale of the protest.

[Skylark]

Ruby -

It's the same picture.

[Skylark]

Illegals would be allowed to buy insurance through the govt subsidized health exchange.

Posted by: Lala
---------------------------------------------------

The exchange is not government subsidized. It is merely a grouping of health insurance plans. Anyone who can now purchase private insurance can buy that insurance through the exchange.

The bill offers government subsidized credits for those who cannot afford premiums for insurance they buy through the exchange. The bill specifically prohibits illegal aliens from obtaining those government subsidized credits.

[Lala]

From NDH link posted above and directed at skylark

"The bullet points sent tonight by the White House:

* Undocumented immigrants would not be able to buy private insurance on the exchange. Those who are lawfully present in this country would be able to participate."

[Lala]

From the govt website

Quality, Affordable Choices
If You Don’t Have Insurance, the Obama Plan:

* Creates a new insurance marketplace — the Exchange — that allows people without insurance and small businesses to compare plans and buy insurance at competitive prices.
* Provides new tax credits to help people buy insurance.
* Provides small businesses tax credits and affordable options for covering employees.
* Offers a public health insurance option to provide the uninsured and those who can’t find affordable coverage with a real choice.
* Immediately offers new, low-cost coverage through a national “high risk” pool to protect people with preexisting conditions from financial ruin until the new Exchange is created.

[Skylark]

Lala -

Sorry, I can't tell what "NDH link" you're referring to, but I ran a Google search on the "White House bullet point" about prohibiting undocumented immigrants from participating in the exchange. That is not currently part of HR 3200, but is a new proposal.

From an ABC piece that contains the "bullet point" language:

"Today, for the first time as far as we know, the administration is backing a provision that would require proof of citizenship before someone could enroll in a plan selected on the exchange."

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2009/09/11/2065287.aspx

And once again, the exchange itself is not government subsidized. The premium credits that would allow people to purchase insurance through the exchange would be subsidized. The bill never allowed illegal aliens to receive government subsidized premium credits.

So now you will be required to provide your birth certificate in order to buy health insurance through the exchange. Keep it handy!

[Skylark]

"Ah yes, the loophole which Obama was screaming and insisting didn't exist -- which he admitted existed last night."

North Dallas Thirty
--------------------------------------------------

And exactly what "loophole" is that? Be specific please.