Pushback On Health Care From All Sides

From doctors, to patients, to average citizens, people are waking up to what Obama wants to pull-off. I almost wouldn't mind the debate if it were an honest one. But Obama had his mind made up before the people even had a chance to fully understand the ramifications of what he would do. And if he does it, the chances of ever going back are slim to none.

He aims to put America on a path leading to where a single payer government system is the only possible destination. And he's willing to do it with slippery legislation and dishonest rhetoric. Few words define someone like that better than scumbag. If he weren't afraid of how badly the truth would hurt the chances for passing what he wants to do, he wouldn't fear an honest, open debate as he does. This has to be a line we draw in the sand. There can be compromise, as we still wouldn't be able to trust what is buried inside some grand legislation designed only to full the American people in the end. And that's wrong.

As a person who has diabetes, I am infuriated at the propaganda being churned out by the current occupant of the Oval Office and his underlings in furtherance of America’s Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009 (ObamaCare).

Comments

[mark l.]

this was a "paint by numbers" presidency, at least for the first year, and rahm f****d it up.

obama had no chief of staff that he could have brought with him, and he wound up with a guy who thinks he is still in the house of representatives.

didn't these guys ever hear of the idea called "incrementalism"?

those who were criticizing his lack of experience, myself included, have to be feeling a ton of vindication.

wasn't it a month ago, that peolsi was saying she had the votes on a bill that didn't exist? I tend to think that it shows how much the presidency, never was really "his".

I feel sorry for obama, because he has become such a tool, and he is going to be stuck with the blame.

[Ad rem]

Obama and his ilk have only one end in mind.....the total redistribution of wealth in the U.S.A.......by any and all means necessary.

[mark l.]

side issue, which is probably the best tidbit (for me) of the day?
lime wedges may remain in the bottle, apparently they burn off in recycling.

[Ad rem]

Mark,

Did you get that off of Huff-Po....? ;-)

[mark l.]

some chick named...

umbra, off of grist.com.
http://www.grist.org/article/umbra-limewedge

for all intents and purposes, I guess I got it off of a huffpo satellite site.

all i wanted was a yes or no, but she gave the ok to someone else. i figure the answer can't be any different for a conservative.

[drjohn]

Dan, you're saying that your internist doesn't want to cut all your limbs off?

No kidding?

[Ad rem]

I gotta go pour a beer, I can't stand it any longer......

[mark l.]

i'm at 2.3 beers, and I'm crocked.

i used to be able to blow thru 20 bucks on dollar bud night. i've become a bigger pussy than jesse g.
(5 bucks of that was in tips)

[JustOneMan]

Key senators are excluding a provision on end-of-life care from health overhaul legislation after language in a House bill caused a furor.

Hmmmm....removing something that wasnt there....

[Nishner]

What they're removing is reimbursement for a voluntary meeting every five years with your doctor to discuss living wills, etc. This in the head-in-the-sand lunacy of Conservative Thinkers - oxymoron? - who morphed a relatively simple common-sense provision into a Death Panel with the help of the scintillating intellect of Former Alaska Governer Sarah Palin.

Tucked inside a sweeping House bill to overhaul the health system is a provision that would require Medicare to pay physicians to counsel patients once every five years. During those sessions, doctors could discuss how patients can plan for such end-of-life decisions as setting up a living will, obtaining hospice care or establishing a proxy to make their health decisions when they are unable to do so.

....

Currently, Medicare doesn't reimburse for counseling for end-of-life care, a deterrent to doctors, many of whom supported incorporating the idea into the House bill.

....

"We were delighted to see this in the legislation," said Cecil Wilson, president-elect of the American Medical Association. The provision, he says, is really about making sure doctors get paid for their time. "This is one of the more egregious examples of mischaracterization that I have seen," he said.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125012322203627701.html

[christmasghost]

As a person with epilepsy I too am more than worried about all of this....and what makes it even worse is that I have epilepsy [the gift that keeps on giving] thanks to a criminal who should have been in jail but wasn't because of people like Obama, and so was free to try and kill me, among others BTW.So, I survived a vicious attack only to be assaulted once again by the same type of people that left the wanna be murderer running around because "he had a bad childhood". The vicious cycle of it all.......

[mark l.]

wow, I guess all those "evil mongers, un-american, swastika waving, racist, astroturfing(...etc)" old people can go home now.

gotta love politicians who feel they can broad brush the electorate into supporting their policies. sometimes I think they forget that they are in the majority, but are still obligated to represent these people.

can't wait to hear what they'll call these people when they are out of office.

[mark l.]

i got a great line for them to use...

it's been tested.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You're_either_with_us,_or_against_us

[JustOneMan]

One page down and 999 more to go!

This has nothing to do with healthcare...if King Barry and the Dumbocraps really cared about all the uninsured they could simply pass legislation to include them all in some sort of modified medicaid program...having worked in the managed medicaid business the benefits are bettter than most commercial plans...

So Nishner it isnt about healthcare at all its all about controlling the population to garner votes...just look at the teachers union...a bunch of morons who only care about their tenure, pensions and benefits so they have to support the dumbocraps at the cost economy and children.

[JustOneMan]

Dont believe that the AMA supports King Barry...

When the Moronic One spoke at the AMA luncheon ...."The boos erupted when Obama told the doctors in Chicago he wouldn't try to help them win their top legislative priority _ limits on jury damages in medical malpractice cases."

See its not about health care at all!

[rrpjr]

Part of me is almost hoping (almost) he does push it through. I can't see how he would recover. But maybe the country wouldn't either. It's sickly fascinating to see the leftist fanaticism here and the presidential abandonment of caution and political common sense in the lust to get what they want. To any honest liberal paying attention, this has to be shattering. Obama was supposed to be their mold-breaking Harvard man of reason, fresh ideas and post-partisan suppleness who would unite all fractious sides in the name of national problem-solving. Instead he's breaking the mold in another way -- proving a kind of cool neo-Stalinist and serial liar morbidly beholden to bad, failed ideas.

[ruby]

i'm super disturbed about the fact that they want real time access to your bank account. um, not without a court order!!! WTF!!! so they can empty it it for the greater good???

[geoffb]

The "Death Panels" are already in place. They were enacted into law in the Stimulus Bill. TITLE VIII SEC. 804"FEDERAL COORDINATING COUNCIL FOR COMPARATIVE
EFFECTIVENESS RESEARCH. (a) ESTABLISHMENT.—There is hereby
established a Federal Coordinating Council for Comparative
Effectiveness Research
"That is the body that will do the dirty job of deciding who lives and who dies, who gets a treatment and who gets the "pain pill" or less. They have been established, but do not yet have the power to enforce mandates or clinical guidelines. That can come later when the financial costs of what the Congress seems set on passing start to be seen. It will be sold as a cost saving measure then.

Europe is already there. In the UK this same body is called (NICE, they are anything but. Comparative Effectiveness is the name used for the process of deciding which of us are no longer of use to the Government, are too expensive to be allowed to continue on this mortal coil.

[Fishner]

"The provision, he says, is really about making sure doctors get paid for their time."

None of the bills contains this language. You are spready fishy disinformation, Nishner.

[capt joe]

It's clear the bastard hates JOOOS. The lies he tells about the doctors cutting off feet to line their pockets at $30,000.00 a clip is straight from Rev Wright. Docs seldom charge more than a few hundred dollars to do this. It's time to break out the pitchforks and toss this POS on the dung pile.

[geoffb]

Links work differently here. So.

Link to Stimulus Bill text.
http://www.readthestimulus.org/hr1_final.txt

Link to paper on Comparative Effectiveness in Health Care Reform
http://www.heritage.org/research/healthcare/bg2239.cfm#_ftn24

[Hyman Roth]

And now the 0bamateur admits that he made a secret backroom deal with the profit-hungry drug companies.

And they are going to pay for $150 million in advertising to promote ObamaCare.

But I am sure that they are doing it out of the goodness of their heart...

[mark l.]

"Part of me is almost hoping (almost) he does push it through. I can't see how he would recover. But maybe the country wouldn't either. It's sickly fascinating to see the leftist fanaticism here and the presidential abandonment of caution and political common sense in the lust to get what they want. To any honest liberal paying attention, this has to be shattering. Obama was supposed to be their mold-breaking Harvard man of reason, fresh ideas and post-partisan suppleness who would unite all fractious sides in the name of national problem-solving. Instead he's breaking the mold in another way -- proving a kind of cool neo-Stalinist and serial liar morbidly beholden to bad, failed ideas."

-rrpjr

sorry to reprint the whole thing, but to edit any of it would be like cutting up the mona lisa for resale on ebay.

[Nishner]

"The "Death Panels" are already in place. They were enacted into law in the Stimulus Bill."

Really? So where are the victoms? Let me guess. They're hidden away in secret Death Camps where they're secretly put to death, their relatives and friends bought off so no-one will know. Or perhaps they're being used as extras in remakes of Night of the Living Dead. Or

As for the UK, seems Stephen Hawkings doesn't agree with you. In fact he came out and credited the UK's health system for the care it gave him.

Conservatism seems to have sunk to where any semblance of intelligent thought must be stamped out.

[mark l.]

"At today's press briefing, Gibbs was also asked about the potential political impact if the president's health care effort fails. He said that the White House wasn't looking at political ramifications."

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/politics_nation/2009/08/white_house_answers_grassley_w.html

that's my bambi. i guess it would makes gibbs, 'thumper'.

the question should have been in regards to the political ramifications if it passes, without bringing public support up about 10-15 pts.

[WBestPresidentEver]

I was reading around earlier and caught this.

If congress is not reading the health care bill then who wrote it ?
I guess the point would be that you have to know what is says if you wrote it. If one of them wrote all of it he/she would know everything it says. The rest would have to read it to find out what it says. If some wrote part of it then they know what the part they wrote says and nobody knows what all of it says. My guess would then be most of them will vote on it without having read it and without knowing what is says. In light of the stimulus package this appears to be the new norm.

Sec. 113, Pg. 21-22 of the Health Care (HC) Bill MANDATES a government audit of the books of ALL EMPLOYERS that self-insure in order to ensure that the law does not provide incentives for small and mid-size employers to self-insure!
Sec. 122, Pg. 29, Lines 4-16 - YOUR HEALTH CARE WILL BE RATIONED!
Sec. 123, Pg. 30 - THERE WILL BE A GOVERNMENT COMMITTEE deciding what treatments and benefits you get.
Sec. 142, Pg. 42 - The Health Choices Commissioner will choose your benefits for you. You have no choice!
Sec. 152, Pg. 50-51 - HC will be provided to ALL NON-US citizens.
Sec. 203, Pg. 85, Line 7 - Specifications of benefit levels for plans means that the government will define your HC plan and has the ability to ration your health care!
Sec. 205, Pg. 95, Lines 8-18 - The government will use groups (i.e., ACORN & AmeriCorps) to inform and educate (sign up) individuals for government plan.
Sec. 205, Pg. 102, Lines 12-18 - Medicaid-eligible individuals will be automatically enrolled in Medicaid. No freedom to choose.
Sec. 312, Pg. 145, Lines 15-17 - Employers MUST auto-enroll employees into public option plan.
Sec. 313, Pg. 149, Lines 16-23 - ANY employer with payroll $400,000 and above who does not provide public option pays 8% tax on all payroll.
And the list goes on...

As Americans voice their fervent opposition to Obama’s healthcare “reform,” Democrats have launched a war of outrageous hate speech. First, the DNC launched a web video charging “desperate Republicans and their well-funded allies” with “organizing angry mobs” to “destroy President Obama.” Then shortly thereafter, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi accused townhall protestors of “carrying swastikas.”

“Liberals are not only grasping at the straws of desperation to protect this radical government takeover, they have crossed into unabashed hate speech. Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity have never said anything like this. Yet they are accused of hate speech. To put it another way, if Limbaugh and Hannity are guilty of hate speech, how much worse are these liberals?

[JadedByPolitics]

This taking out of the bill what "wasn't" there in a bill that isn't a bill is just the first step. This is an ongoing battle just as illegal immigration amnesty was. There is no rest for the weary who must fight both Republicans and Democrats from attempting to create some social serving government and keeps it small and limited. Battle on!

[geoffb]

"As for the UK, seems Stephen Hawkings doesn't agree with you"

Let's see. do you post as "jesus/hoot". The talking points and reading comprehension point to the "jesus/hoot" person at PW.

As for Steven Hawking.

Hey, just become a world famous physicist and you have no problem with getting your unlimited healthcare. It’s the “Instrumental Value” figure that saves you. Marrying your nurse helps too.

See no problem, just meet the criteria.

[Nishner]

Why didn't you just post a link to the source instead of trying to make it seem like you'd actually read the bill - which you haven't.

Here, I'll do it for you:

http://www.lc.org/index.cfm?PID=19319

Liverty University - aren't those the people that believe the Earth is 6000 years old, that man walked with Dinosaurs and the Flintstones ia a documentary.

[geoffb]

" aren't those the people that believe the Earth is 6000 years old, that man walked with Dinosaurs and the Flintstones ia a documentary."

Nishi? now Nishner?

[DaveinPhoenix]

I can't think of a government program which hasn't expanded rapidly in my lifetime. If any form of this nonsense becomes law, all we can expect is for it to grow and grow proportionate to political paybacks and pork for needy constituents in the future.

Government is like the salesman putting his toe in your door - if you don't slam the door, you're gonna pay - and regret opening the door a crack to what seemed to be a good deal.

A loud and clear "NO" here.

[David R. Graham]

The nation's health care system needs reformation, no doubt of that. And the looming boomer bulge needs handling at all levels of government, no doubt of that, either.

The question is, by whom? Government or Doctors?

The issue here is the same one, albeit for a companion profession, that faced the German Clergy when the Nazi Party demanded they sign allegiance to the Nazi Party and its Leader in precedence to their allegiance to the Church and Her Leader. Here the issue is facing the medical profession whereas there it faced the theological.

The White House's current occupants will, if they can get to it, face the military profession with the same issue.

The teaching profession has already signed, thereby destroying their legitimacy, including theology/religion faculties. (I can state downrightly that no theologian is employed on any government-funded academic campus.)

The legal profession thinks they will be exempt from signing. They are wrong about that if the White House's current occupants get as far as they intend.

Some trade union leaderships have signed, but vast numbers of trade union members have not and will not. It is unrealistic to paint trade unionists per se as loyal to the White House's current occupants. I speak as one knowing many.

Several obvious steps are indicated as the way to reform the nation's health care system:

1- incentivize the AMA to delegitimate persons who are not called to be MDs -- i.e., who are not professionals, who do not care to foster citizens' health -- as well as MDs whose malpractice history indicates they are unfit for the profession; in other words, raise MDs to standards of professionalism comparable to those enjoyed by the Officers Corps of the United States Armed Forces;

2- de-incentivize malpractice suits, and

3- incentivize the AMA's enforcement of the Hippocratic Oath and never, ever, imagine that an MD or any professional (Theologian, Teacher, Soldier, Doctor, Attorney) should or could owe primary allegiance to a government rather than to the code of their profession.

Medical decisions are the purview of Medical Doctors. Religious decisions are the purview of Theologians. Pedagogical decisions are the purview of Teachers. Military decisions are the purview of Armed Forces Officers and NCOs. Legal decisions are the purview of Attorneys.

No government has or can have authority over the code of conduct of any profession. Abide that fact and incentivize the professions' several leaderships to realize it, that is the role of government.

That government is legitimate which assists citizens to be who they are and achieve what they aspire -- and labor!!! -- to be. That government is illegitimate which essays to tell people who they are and what they shall do or which subsidizes cheats and idlers.

No government is empowered or entitled to tell professionals who they are, what they are or how they shall discharge the responsibilities of their profession. No laws can be made to legitimate governments which try to do those things. Law does not and cannot reach professional codes of conduct. Those codes are above and beyond law and men, both. They are the prius of law, which is a cultural creation, not a category of life. The legitimacy of the professional codes rests in the roots of existence and rises therefrom. The professional codes are immutable and indomitable categories of life.

Every tyrannical government in history has tried to overwhelm professional codes, of course, and every one of them has succumbed to professional resistance. It must ever be so because the up-surging power of professional responsibility is superior to the down-trodding power of tyranny by commandeering and overwhelming professional responsibility.

[Mark Turner]

Based on the Federal Government's dismal record of "lowering costs", "maintaining quality", "achieving efficiency and syngery", "ensuring equity and fairness", and other such political platitudes regarding other social welfare programs in mandates, what in hell would make anyone want to trust it with their own well-being, under the guise of nationalized healthcare?

[Lala]

This is what we'll be doing if this abomination ever passes. Waiting, waiting, waiting, dying.

'Quarter of a million people waiting more than 18 months for NHS treatment'
A quarter of a million people are waiting more than 18 weeks for treatment on the NHS, new figures show.

By Murray Wardrop
Published: 7:00AM BST 14 Aug 2009

The disclosure of the statistics comes just three days after Andy Burnham, the Health Secretary, claimed there were no longer any waiting lists in the NHS.

Norman Lamb, the Liberal Democrat shadow health secretary, last night criticised the figures and said Mr Burnham's comments were offensive to the thousands of patients awaiting treatment.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/6024086/Quarter-of-a-million-people-waiting-more-than-18-months-for-NHS-treatment.html

[xerocky]

By the way; The "Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009," the House health overhaul bill, creates the position of Health Choices Commissioner, or "Insurance Czar."

That brings us up to 33(!) Czars!! That's 33 officials who aren't accountable to anyone but the president. There is no possibility of sunlight, they can be bribed, kidnapped, manipulated, you name it. And that doesn't even mention the vast network of underlings.

Obama has no right to change our government in the way that he already has.

[Mark Turner]

I remember an offhand comment by one of Obama's advisors (don't remember which) during the transition period before inauguration that Obama "would be ready to rule" on day 1 -- a point was even discussed for a while that presidents don't "rule", they "govern". I didn't think much of the "ready to rule" statement at the time, but with all the "czar" positions and Obama's behavior toward criticism, I think he may have plans to "rule" at some point. Either that, or he is the most grossly amateurish politician I have ever seen in a leading office of any kind.

[xerocky]

" I think he may have plans to "rule" at some point. Either that, or he is the most grossly amateurish politician I have ever seen in a leading office of any kind."

It's both.

[Jacksonian Lawyer]

But Obama promised transparency...he promised to televise all negotiations on C-SPAN...he promised to post all (non-emergency) legislation on the White House website for five days before signing it to allow the citizenry to review it first...surely he can't be up to no good...you mean...he...he lied?

Just more of his continued efforts to lead our nation down the path to complete and total socialism. Der Furher would delight in the measures currently being adopted by this administration. "Inform on others" through flag.gov...brand your opponents "un-American," "nazis," describe their efforts as "astro-turf" and reminiscent of the "KKK." I do believe Obama to be an amateur. That he is completely ill-equipped to handle the duties and responsibilities of a US President is without question. Yet, he is quite capable of dismantling our nation and turning it upside down; drastically changing it to comport with his obvious Socialist ideals. That there are those who are so blindly rushing to do so along with him is reprehensible.

[Missy]

So, the Senate Finance Committee struck something from the bill that wasn't there, sure.

Senator Grassley commented on the reason for striking this language out of the Senate's Finance Committee's language. Don't mean to shout, but....

Grassley said the end of life provisions were dropped "because of the way they could be MISINTERPRETED and IMPLEMENTED incorrectly"

And....physicians would be paid and rated.... " and RATE physician quality of care BASED ON THE CREATION OF AND ADHERENCE TO ORDERS FOR END-OF-LIFE-CARE."

He concludes...."Maybe others can defend a bill like the Pelosi bill that LEAVES MAJOR ISSUES OPEN TO INTERPRETATION, but I can't," Grassley added."

http://www.usnews.com/blogs/peter-roff/2009/08/13/score-one-for-sarah-palin-on-the-healthcare-reform-death-panels.html

Also, the counseling wasn't just every five years, it was also to be made available everytime the patients condition changed.

Senator Grassley makes another interesting point that has been denied:

"The bill passed by the House committees is so poorly cobbled together that it will have all kinds of unintended consequences, including making taxpayers fund health care subsidies for ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS,

http://briefingroom.thehill.com/2009/08/13/finance-committee-drops-end-of-life-provision/

[templar knight]

Xerocky, we'll know by 2010. The election cycle is going the Republican's way, and they should gain quite a few seats in the House, and some Senate positions as well. But voter fraud and thug violence on the part of the Democrats and their union supporters and ACORN mobs will factor in several close races.

The Democrats will be paying millions of dollars to these thugs to intimidate voters and pass out disinformation. Without a massive effort on the part of freedom-loving Americans, I am quite sure the Democrats will be able to derail efforts to unseat them. Be prepared to work in campaigns, get your friends to work in campaigns, and volunteer as a poll worker or watcher.

[Hyman Roth]

"The nation's health care system needs reformation, no doubt of that."

Tort reform ("Loser Pays") would be a tremendous improvement. It would reduce pressure on doctors and lower insurance costs.

[Ran]

Graham, Roth,
Amen, dudes.

The Heritage Foundation has real solutions available on their website:

www.myheritage.org

[Fred Beloit]

Dan: "There can be compromise, as we still wouldn't be able to trust what is buried inside some grand legislation designed only to [fool] the American people in the end."

You certainly hit the target with this sentence, Dan. There must be basically no sick care legislation while the current majority is in power. The wool is in a DC warehouse right now and is ready to be pulled over our eyes in the name of "bipartisan compromise".

[JustOneMan]

WOW...our post racial president and his supporters play the race card...

Obama's Safety: Fear Grows for President as Hate Groups Thrive on Racial Backlash

Gee I never heard ABC's outrage over the hate for Bush and Cheney...I wonder why?