Change We Can ...

not believe in. What a surprise. And we know how much the Left hates contractors, particularly in this regard, right? I can hear them now!  ::chirp chirp::

“The Obama administration has objected to a provision in the 2010 defense funding bill currently before the Senate that would bar the military’s use of contractors to interrogate detainees.”

Comments

[Slide]

and of course if Obama had done the exact opposite, he would have been attacked by you as well. Right? of course. At this point all we get is Pavlovian responses to anything Obama does. You DO know that that is quite counterproductive for your side. When you criticize reflexively you become rather predicable. Your viewpoints lose credibility. You become irrelevant to the conversation. But I know it makes you feel good. Kinda like blogger masturbation. Enjoy, I'll give you a little privacy here so you can enjoy yourself Dan.

[zaugg]

Slide- you teh stoopid? Does the nuance of what this post actually say go over your head or do you just like to run your mouth?
'Change you can believe in' would mean that there would be no interrogations, by contractors or anybody.

[Slide]

zaugg zig zagging said: "Change you can believe in' would mean that there would be no interrogations, by contractors or anybody"

When did Obama or ANYONE on the left ever say that there should be "no interrogations" ??? Interrogations Good, Torture Bad. I know that for you guys on the right they are synonymous but to the rest of us in the real world there is a difference. Nice try.

Next.

[jaime]

"You become irrelevant to the conversation."

But, but, but one poll by a Republican pollster I cherry picked only has Obama at 52 percent. America HATES HIM!!!!!

Sure Republicans are polling around the 20% mark, but let's not talk about that.

[North Dallas Thirty]

"and of course if Obama had done the exact opposite, he would have been attacked by you as well. Right?"

That's a hypothetical. But what we do know is that you screamed and whined and threw hissy fits about interrogations by contractors before, and now that Obama is supporting it, you can't say a single word against it or him.

You can't defend your lying Obama, so you attack others and try to blame them for Obama's lies. Perfectly predictable. Completely hilarious.

[jr565]

Slide wrote:
and of course if Obama had done the exact opposite, he would have been attacked by you as well. Right? of course. At this point all we get is Pavlovian responses to anything Obama does. You DO know that that is quite counterproductive for your side. When you criticize reflexively you become rather predicable.

and of course if Obama had done the exact opposite, he would have been praised by you as well. Right? of course. At this point all we get is Pavlovian responses to anything Obama does. You DO know that that is quite counterproductive for your side. When you praise reflexively you become rather predicable. Seriously Slide, you have to stop doing this. I realize that defending that which yesterday you found indefensible because Bush did it puts you in an awkward position, but still the degree to which you have no principles other than to blast Bush and praise Obama is pretty extreme even for a troll.
So ok, lets get your nuanced opinion. Was bush wrong to use contractors to carry out certain inerrogations and is Obama right now to continue in certain cases those same policies? You do know that he is objecting to a provision that is being suggested by democrats right? Therefore, considering he campaigned against Mccain as being the anti Bush candidate and pinned all evil on Bush you;d think that it would be easy to simply to follow through on his principles and vote with the democrats. Don't they have a veto proof majority? Are you happy that Bush, I mean Obama is challenging the democrats on this?

Or to put it another way. Were you full of shit then or are you full of shit now?
As for us going after Obama in either case, well yeah. And I think we have that right. After all, it was YOUR side that was caterwauling that we were the equivalent of nazis in nearly all our policies, including interrogations. So if Obama realizes that due to realistic consideration HE has to continue carrying out said policies beause otherwise he will not be able to conduct interrogations or wage war effectively or what have you he may ultimatley have come around to Bush's way of thinking for which we'd agree, but it doesn't make him less stupid or hypocritical by doing so. In other words, Bush was right and Obama was an idiot. And if he decided to do away with contractors as interrogators we probably would also go after him because it would be a stupid move. (Which is why he ISN'T doing so now).

Same thing with the economy. Biden says that they misread how bad the economy was. No they lied. They were given estimates by their own CBO which were far bleaker (though some might say they were still too optimisitic) bu they didn't base their own estimates on those numbers. Instead they pulled numbers completely out of their asshole and promised growth that was completley unrealistic even when compared to CBO numbers which were themselves too rosy. People in the Obama campaign were actually arguing that for every dollar spent 1.5 dollars would be created in growth.

Then, when the stimulus package was not producing jobs like was promised Obama and Biden say that the stimulus package was never meant to stimumate the economy but rather stop the free fall. No they suggested that the stimulus package would bring in jobs and advertised the plan as a stimulus plan. You know who was ahead of the curve on this? The republicans. Who said that if you want to create a plan that stimulates the economy there are things you can do but what Obama was proposing was not in fact stimulative so this was not a good plan (unless the plan was to grow govt and not stimulate the economy). Now of course the administration, in having to defend their lack of stimulus, are coming around to their opponents way of thinking only of course they can never admit they were mistaken. But we can!

[Slide]

really?.... the right is completely bereft of intellectual thought but once again jr565 unintentionally makes my point when he says:

"After all, it was YOUR side that was caterwauling that we were the equivalent of nazis in nearly all our policies, including interrogations. So if Obama realizes that due to realistic consideration HE has to continue carrying out said policies"

Having contractors be involved in interrogations isn't the reason most of the sane world was appalled at the Cheney/bush policies. It was the TORTURE part. Whether that was done by the CIA, military personnel or civilian contractors, the TORTURE was repugnant to those of that think a bit more about the United States than the crime family that took over the white house for 8 years. Obama has made it very clear that he banned the use of these "enhanced interrogation techniques" TORTURE. So when you say that he has to continue carrying out these same policies you are full of shit as usual.

But again it makes my point. The right seems to have two seperate attacks on Obama going on simultaneously that are contradictory:

1) as numbchucks just said, "he may ultimatley have come around to Bush's way of thinking" In other words, Obama is doing what Bush did because he now sees it is the best way to defend the nation, therefore he violated what he had said in the campaign.

and

2) Obama is endangering the nation by not continuing the policies of Cheney/bush in fighting terrorism

See, WHATEVER Obama would do would be attacked by the wingnut contingent.

Another example:

1) the brilliant jr said, "You do know that he is objecting to a provision that is being suggested by democrats right?"

2) the common theme among the mentally challenged wingnut population, that Obama is just a puppet of Pelosi and the liberal Dems.

Again, damned if you go againt your party and damned if you go with your party.

We get it boys and girls - Obama can do nothing right in your eyes. You will find a way to attack anything and EVERYTHING he does from your partisan eyes even if you have to do rhetorical double back flips to do it. Like I said earlier, it makes you rather irrelevant but always entertaining.

[seekeronos]

"--- ...Obama is just a puppet of Pelosi and the liberal Dems. ---"

Actually, he (and many of the leading liberals) is (and are) a puppet(s) of the globalist elites such as David Rockefeller, George Soros, and other such exalted personages/members of the Bilderberg and Trilateral Commission and the CFR.

"--- Obama can do nothing right in your eyes. ---"

Pretty much the only thing you have right in your analysis, Slide.

After all, he is a socialist, and there is nothing right about socialism and its vile paternalistic grabs on power over individual rights and freedoms via massive expansion of government, especially via the Executive Branch.

[jr565]

Slide wrote:
1) as numbchucks just said, "he may ultimatley have come around to Bush's way of thinking" In other words, Obama is doing what Bush did because he now sees it is the best way to defend the nation, therefore he violated what he had said in the campaign.

and

2) Obama is endangering the nation by not continuing the policies of Cheney/bush in fighting terrorism

Ok, follow along here. If we thought Bush was right then Obama ultimaltely doing what Bush did only validates Bush's position. And the fact that Obama ran specifically on Hope & Change and specifically as anti-Bush then its worth of derision when in fact he continues doing what Bush did. WHich he is doing over and over and over. And of course now Slide is defending Obama's policies which when conducted by Bush were examples of evil. So, Slide, there is one person here who is the hypocrite. You. Switching your positions to suit your candidate makes you look, er, like a troll?

In regards to point 2, I would say that would require us looking at specific policies before saying that Obama not following the Bush policy is endangering the nation.I would say doing away with any ehnanced interrogation techniques and givng al Qaeda our interrogation playbook in fact does potentially endanger our nation. Closing Gitmo does potentially endanger our nation. Speaking without preconditions to Iran does potentially endanger our nation. They are also pretty dumb ideas. Insofar as Obama continues on that path, he can be called out on the resulsts of said policies.
But usually the template for Obama is speaking out against the evil of Bush then continue the policy (for which he can rightly be deemed a hypocrite and can be hit for not living up to his rhetoric) or continue to implement stupid policies despite the fact that they are unworkable and retarded. And there we can hit him on the fact that his stupid policies led to or are leading to bad results.For example in Iran, his coddling of the regime while they are killing civilians makes him look, I don't know, kind of bad. Kind of like he doesn't really care for human rights, kind of callous (insert your adjective here). And of course, it was Obama who brought this upon himself by saying he would negotiate with Iran with no preconditions. Funny, even early on Bush recognized Iran as being part of an axis of evil. For this he was excoriated by your side. Bush stood in principle against Iran and said they needed to do x,y,z to normalize relationships with the rest of the world. For this the left demonized him and not Iran. He was the aggressor, they simply were responding to his aggression, but otherwise they were perfectly rational. It became an attack not on a rogue regime trying to get nukes, but an attack on a president trying to deal with the threat.
Fast forward to now and here is the regime being revealed as an anti democratic one not willing to listen to the west and one that cracks down on its people who want basic democratic reform (or at least have an election honored). Funny, but us "neocons" could have told you this 4 years ago. And even when faced with such crackdowns Obama instinctively sides not with the people but with the regime. And I thought they hated us for our policies and for always coddling the dictator. Might this be a policy for which they hate us? (Quick, lets check the leaked NIE and see if this policy increased terrorism).

So, is Obama going to continue to say he will deal with Iran without preconditions? Wont that make him look kind of petty? And if Iran can crack down on its citizens and refuses to budge on its nukes and we wont do anything anyway, what is Obama even going to try to negotiate?

But back to contractors. THe issue with contractors was not simply that they were interrogating. There was a cornucopia of reasons as to why Bush was EVIL for using contractors. Where do you side on the issue? Was Obama wrong then or is Obama wrong now? Why are you SO inclined to side with Obama while he moves away from his hope & change rhetoric and more and more adopts Bush policies. It must be really embarrasing to you to have to keep changing your position again and again because a democrat is in charge. But get used to it, because this is going to happen a lot.

[Slide]

jr starts his looooooooooooooooong post with this, "If we thought Bush was right then Obama ultimaltely doing what Bush did only validates Bush's position."

But Obama is not doing what Bush did. He has banned torture. He will close Gitmo. He has revamped the military tribunal rules of evidence, he has a CIA director that will actually obey the law regarding congressional notification, he is pulling out of Iraq, he is doing a million things, big and small, that is quite different than what the Cheney/bush administration did. Isn't that why all you nutjobs on the right are screaming for an armed insurrection? Why would you all be so upset if Obama is "ultimately doing what Bush did"? Your whole thesis is incomprehensible.

[North Dallas Thirty]

"He has banned torture."

Except when he needs to do so, as the exception in his order clearly states, and he has also asserted that he can and will use extraordinary rendition.

"He will close Gitmo."

He said it would be closed immediately. He lied. He said there was no need to keep it. He lied.

"He has revamped the military tribunal rules of evidence"

He has stated that he can hold people without evidence and even if a tribunal finds them not guilty.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/06/26/AR2009062603361_pf.html

But of course, Slide will not criticize any of this, because Slide is an Obama puppet who is incapable of doing that. Slide demanded Bush's impeachment, but Slide insists that Obama can do anything he wants.

The Obama Party is sinking into the muck rapidly because people are realizing that Obama is a pathological liar who will say and do anything to get elected. Slide is becoming more and more isolated in the wingnut Obama Party left.