Words Unspoken

Funny how they can make a popular television show called Queer eye for the straight guy. But you aren't supposed to use the word.

Samuel "Joe the Plumber" Wurzelbacher is making news. The Lefty blogs are all over him and conservative Gay Patriot wonders if he jumped the shark. In the media and bi-coastal worlds, yep. At the same time, I'd imagine you could find many a card carrying blue collar Democrat in the middle of the country who might say about the same thing, including the bit about children. It's just more likely to be said to a friend. I suspect the attitude is still more widespread than people think.

In the last month, same-sex marriage has become legal in Iowa and Vermont. What do you think about same-sex marriage at a state level?

At a state level, it's up to them. I don't want it to be a federal thing. I personally still think it's wrong. People don't understand the dictionary—it's called queer. Queer means strange and unusual. It's not like a slur, like you would call a white person a honky or something like that. You know, God is pretty explicit in what we're supposed to do—what man and woman are for. Now, at the same time, we're supposed to love everybody and accept people, and preach against the sins. I've had some friends that are actually homosexual. And, I mean, they know where I stand, and they know that I wouldn't have them anywhere near my children. But at the same time, they're people, and they're going to do their thing.

Comments

[Stealth Gay Academic Conservative]

Not living in the bi-coastal world myself, I'm quite aware of how common this attitude is. What I hadn't known, until just now, is that it's possible to regard as a friend someone who won't let you near his kids just because you're gay. Now that's queer.

[Lala]

"Queer as Folk"

[tjproudamerican]

Joe the Plumber is a great spokesperson. Most gays are ashamed of themselves so I am sure would feel honored to be Joe's friend and honored to know that Joe cares enough about his children to keep gay people away from them.

With Joe as spokesman, the Republicans, and the Tea Party Movement, are in Good Hands.

This can only be a good thing for conservatives that Joe is a recognized representative. He is thoughtful, articulate, and really quite wonderful. Liberals cower because they know Joe is coming, maybe on a Palin/Joe ticket in 2012. And Joe won't need to study any books to decide his positions on issues. He doesn't have to even understand issues. Who cares f most child molesters are straight and consider themselves normal?

Conservatives should defend everything anyone who says they are conservative says. That position makes sense to me. Yeah Joe!!!!

[Lala]

"We're queer, we're here"

Slogan of gays.

[Dennis D]

I agree with Joe the Plumber. The Catholic Church is clear evidence. They began ordaining homosexuals who vowed celibacy in order to fill the shrinking ranks of the priesthood. Result was massive pedophelia.

[Lala]

"I'm a Christian," Mr. Obama told the Chicago Tribune. "And so, although I try not to have my religious beliefs dominate or determine my political views on this issue, I do believe that tradition and my religious beliefs say that marriage is something sanctified between a man and a woman."

[Lala]

"Massive pedophelia"

pedophilia is the correct spelling Dennis.

Do you know what a pedophile is?

Massive?

[tjproudamerican]

See! Joe is helping Bigots get their groove on! What a country!

[Alex]

I suppose we'll be entering "Hate Joe Plumber" week brought to you by Obama and the MSM. This is to replace "Freak Out About Swine Flu Week" which in turn replaced "Hate Hedge Funds and Secured Creditors Week". Bread and circuses folks.

[SacTownMan]

Hey Lala who invited all of the trolls to come here and pretend to be conservatives. Don't they know they look like idiots when they play that game. Their goal here is to prod others into parroting their rants.

The crack up is they choose screen names like "patriot" or "proud American" in an effort to be cute for their troll buddies.

What a sad commentary that they have to linger at conservative websites and play games instead of volunteering to help at a homeless shelter or actually DO something with their pathetic troll existance!

As far as Joe goes his comments are slightly harsh here. Calling a gay or lesbian a "queer" is sooo old school! Now if he had said "rump ranger" or "teabag lover" he would have used a more subtle approach that would have shown a sense of humor!

"Go Joe"!!

[Paul A'Barge]

Does Joe have a point? No, I hear you say. Well then. I ask you click this link to ZombieTime Photo Blog and remember this is a public event in San Francisco to which gay people brought their children.

Then tell me again about Joe.

I'm listening.

[Paul A'Barge]

ZombieTime's photo blog. Here's the link:
"http://www.zombietime.com/up_your_alley_2008/part_1_full/"

[tjproudamerican]

This issue is a winner. Joe is a winner. Stick with him, defend him.

Just as ACT-UP and Garofalo and The hoe Outrageous Queer Movement is a winner for Liberals.

If you are smart enough to know that the whole SF Queer outrageous Parade hurts liberals and Homosexuals, how can you argue that Joe, the Plumber shooting his mouth off in an uniformed manner helps either conservatives or Republicans?

Most Americans who vote are neither "conservative" nor "liberal". They have an ad hoc attention to issues, a belief "They are all crooks" another belief "You can't fight City Hall". And they are starting to think "Oh, conservatives are kooks like that plumber guy."

P.S., while I don't think homeless people or anyone who pretends to be homeless and hangs around getting free soup are objects worthy of my contempt, I have never volunteered at a Soup Kitchen.

I like Dan Riehl. I am neither a troll nor a conservative. I disagree with Dan Riehl often, but I feel that he is like me, he would like our ation to make sense and our culture to be smarter and free of curudity and free of stupidity.

[Bob]

Conservatives like to say that someone like Louis Farrakhan is the liberal equivalent of a Joe the Plumber. But Farrakhan was not made part of any Democratic candidate's campaign, making personal appearances and becoming a cause celebre on mainstream talk shows. Obama said during the campaign that he didn't appreciate any endorsement from the likes of Farrakhan.

Meanwhile, Dan Riehl expresses his disbelief that anyone could take offense with Joe saying that he wouldn't let "queers" anywhere near his kids. Imagine if Farrakhan said that he wouldn't let "whiteys" anywhere near HIS kids. Even though Farrakhan is already marginalized and estranged from the liberal mainstream, the right wingers would be all over that one. But what do we get when a similarly hateful extremist like Joe says these ugly and clueless things from within the bosom of the Republican Party? We get the cluelessly hypocritical Riehl staring bigotry in the face and refusing to acknowledge it. This is something beyond mere intellectual dishonesty.

[Macaca06]

Maybe Joe enjoys the death of his faggot AIDS ridden brother in some Faggot SF gutter as much as Dan Riehl does.

[Philip McDaniel]

"ZombieTime Photo Blog and remember this is a public event in San Francisco to which gay people brought their children."

Like they say: "California is like a bowl of cereal, once you've separated out the fruits and nuts all you are left with are the flakes."

[Philip McDaniel]

"Conservatives like to say that someone like Louis Farrakhan is the liberal equivalent of a Joe the Plumber."
Oh, really?!
Just which conservatives would those be, Bob, the sock puppets on your right hand?

[Bob]

Philip, one example is from the other day when we were debating why nobody on the right criticized Dan Riehl or Joe the Plumber for making homophobic jokes and comments. One of your fellow conservative posters, BlackRedneck, said, "Leftards have nothing to say when Farakhan calls it the "Black House." The idea was, why should conservatives stand up for the rights of a social group that they despise because of their sexual orientation when this Farrakhan guy says mean things about white people?

My response is that it IS a false equivalency to compare Farrakhan -- who is an outcast from the vast majority of liberal society -- to someone like Joe the Plumber, who is embraced and celebrated by mainstream Republicans for his ignorant hate-mongering. Typical: when the right wingers make a fuss over the most marginalized pathetic figures like Farrakhan, they're actually the ones who worship at the feet of extremists. There's a virtual army of right wing extremists like Coulter, Malkin, Hannity, O'Reilly, Joe the Plumber, etc, etc, who are taken much more seriously by "mainstream" conservatives than virtually any comparable left wing extremists.

[Philip McDaniel]

"who are taken much more seriously by "mainstream" conservatives than virtually any comparable left wing extremists."
One can only hope. :-)
Seriously, Bob, since you took the time to carefully set out your argument for me, here is a considered answer:
I think some jokes and comments are offensive and out of place. I do not know what "Joe the Plumber" said, nor do I particularly care. If he is homophobic so be it. It does not affect me one way or the other. Nor, I might add, does it seem to affect my gay friends -- I guess because they are accustomed to some of the bigotry that surrounds their lives. Most importantly they are each comfortable with their own self worth. They, like I, are however offended by such things as those that occurred at "up_your_alley_2008". That seems to be disturbing, aberrant behavior that goes far beyond sexual orientation.
Likewise, Mr Farakhan: I do not particularly care what he says or does so long as it does not affect me and those around me. Should he advocate some violent course of action based on his rather distorted views of life, history and his own self-importance, then, of course, I would care...and take appropriate steps.
Overall, I listen to all sides. Some people have ideas and points of view to offer that are worth careful consideration. Others do not. The truly bigoted people are those who, believing they are right, refuse to listen and instead attempt to shout down, belittle, and otherwise discredit those who do not agree with them. Sadly, I see more of that on the left than I do the right. I do not give up hope, however that the discourse of the nation will someday come to a more reasonable level. Meanwhile, I will offer my 2 cents worth now and then and inject my somewhat 'obtuse' humor when something or someone amuses me.
By the way, it would help you immensely, I believe, if you would move on to other issues...I think we have all understood your point. [Just my opinion, you understand.]

[Bob]

Philip, I suppose your current tone of weary condescension is marginally better than the earlier "bitch slap" comment. As far as "moving on" goes, if your gay friends don't seem to mind gay jokes, then why should you mind a few harmless posts from someone like me? As long as Riehl posts items where he sees nothing at all wrong with Joe the Plumber saying that he wouldn't let "queers" anywhere near his children, or suggesting that the 2008 WebLog "Best Blog" award-winner Andrew Sullivan is a silly gay with "womb envy," then I don't see why anyone should mind exploring what sentiments might lie behind those comments.

Are there a lot of conservatives whose every utterance seems to reveal some kind of underlying prejudice? You yourself can't seem to help suggesting that the entire state of California -- that contains huge swathes of conservatives in the Central Valley and once had Ronald Reagan as its two-term governor -- consists of nothing but "fruits, nuts and flakes." As a Californian from a family half of whom are Republicans, the idea that you might depict us all as hot-pants-wearing faggots doesn't threaten my own self-image as much as it makes me wonder a bit at your own pretense of being a fair and rational person.

And I appreciate so much your thoughtful advice about how "it would help you immensely . . . if you would move on to other issues." I guess that's the kind of thing conservatives say when they're not complaining about the liberals trying to stifle their views.

[Philip McDaniel]

LOL!
Good response, Bob.
I don't mind posts from you. Actually, what I meant by moving on to other issues, is that I would like to hear what you think on other issues. Far be it for me to tell you what to do. Yes, I do know that there are a lot of conservatives in California...one of my sons is marrying a girl from Sacramento and I will be out there near the end of June for the wedding. If I have time, I want to go to City Lights bookstore as I am an admirer of the poetry of Ginsberg and Ferlinghetti.
At any rate, I thought the bowl of cereal image was comical...sort of like people referring to those of us in the South as being rednecks. And I think Andrew Sullivan is an bit irrational. Womb envy is a reach, but certainly amusing. I don't take any of this that seriously.

[Bob]

Thanks for being a sport, Philip. I'll be happy to debate any other issues with you in the future. Personally, I think it gets a little dull to always be agreeing with people, which is why it's fun to come over to a site like this and mix it up a little. Pardon me in advance for any overbearingness on my part.

[Philip McDaniel]

I agree, Bob...looking forward to it. See you around.