The CIA Made Me Do It

Contrary to what some have asserted, I believe the Dems do have an exit strategy for the torture debate. The question is, will it work. Their goal is to make this about Bush, and now the CIA. Read The Fix for an even more damning reviewof Pelosi's presser.

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi today accused intelligence officials of giving her “inaccurate and incomplete information” on the use of waterboarding and other harsh interrogation tactics by the Bush administration, saying that CIA officials are guilty of “misleading the Congress of the United States.”

Pelosi is going to want to have any damage to, or discussion of her role to happen now, opening the door to a long drawn out process that points the finger at Bush. Meanwhile, Obama is now faced with a real distraction, generally characterized as anything he doesn't want to discuss on a given day.

In fact, he could turn out to be the real loser here, as the issue has the potential to consume the headlines, as well as his presidency. I'd feel better about all this if I had confidence in the media to report the real story over time and not end up carrying the Democrats water as they did on Valeria Lame and Libby.

The long-term political prognosis is less clear. The Obama administration has made no secret of the fact that they would prefer not to spend time looking back at what happened under President George W. Bush since it distracts from what they believe to be the important tasks at hand -- most notably turning around the economy.

And, it's hard to imagine that the White House is pleased with Pelosi's press conference today -- knowing that the allegations she has made further complicate an already sticky political entanglement, making it far more difficult for the issue to be dismissed out of a desire to look forward rather than backward.

Comments

[Jimbo]

The Bush cabal is still infecting our government. From the CIA to Justice to Treasury. The stain left on our country by these traitors will take decades to wash out.

[mark l.]

Thank you jimbo...

I'm watching the dems play chess. Not being satisfied with the removal of some pieces from the board, they have embarked on a strategy that employs the use of their 'queen' in trying to capture pieces that hold no relevant value or position on the board.

The only current office holders in jeapordy is the ranking house dem.

please build the scaffolds.

[Peach]

I don't know, the Democrats have spent the better part of 8 years making the CIA the big victim to Bush, they can't likely claim the CIA was good then in some cases and now bad, bad, bad in all cases now.

I think Nancy just stepped in BIG TIME, too comfortable in her CIA quid pro quo of earlier times.

She's dead meat. Obama released the briefing outline that screwd Madame Botox.

Dems deserve all the bad they get from this. They played too much politics with peoples lives.

[mark l.]

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/scoreboards/by_the_numbers2/by_the_numbers

approval of 35%, disapproval of 55%. No, not bush...

pelosi. Her word means squat and she is the most polarizing figure. May she represent dems for 100 years.

[Lala]

Nancy needs to get Nicky the Nose and Big Sally to accompany her wherever she goes.

[IslamoLlama]

"-- Contrary to what some have asserted, I believe the Dems do have an exit strategy for the torture debate. --"

Yeah, the exit strategy is Congressional Hearings and - god willing - an independent investigator willing to start handing out indictments.

That said, it appears Pelosi isn't the only one that was lied to by the CIA.

http://emptywheel.firedoglake.com/2009/05/14/senator-bob-graham-the-cia-made-up-two-briefing-sessions/
"-- Graham said that when he asked the CIA when he had been briefed on the program, the CIA gave him the dates of four briefings, two in April 2002 and two in September 2002, when they claimed they had briefed him about the program. But after Graham consulted his own records, he pointed out that on two of those dates, he had not attended any briefing. After Graham pointed this out to the CIA, they conceded their own dates were incorrect. --"

What's more, it appears Richard Shelby (R-AL) was hearing about the same info that Nancy Pelosi was picking up.

http://briefingroom.thehill.com/2009/05/14/what-was-shelby-told-in-his-briefing/
"-- When asked whether Shelby was informed that waterboardbing was being used, Graffeo responded: “Waterboarding was one of the EITs the CIA briefed Sen. Shelby on.” --"

"-- I don't know, the Democrats have spent the better part of 8 years making the CIA the big victim to Bush, they can't likely claim the CIA was good then in some cases and now bad, bad, bad in all cases now. --"

Well, that's the beauty of having honesty and integrity Peach. Rather than picking sides and playing partisan games with the CIA, the Dems can actually back them up when the CIA is in the right and investigate when the CIA is in the wrong.

Even then, this isn't a CIA problem nearly so much as it is a Bush Admin problem. If the loyal Bushies are the ones ordering the CIA to withhold evidence from Congress while they back stab agency members that cross the party line, this will all trickle up to the various chiefs in charge of making those decisions. That means guys like Porter Goss could be in a lot of trouble down the line.

[mark l.]

"this will all trickle up to the various chiefs in charge of making those decisions. That means guys like Porter Goss could be in a lot of trouble down the line."

"WOLVERINES"?

do you honestly think this is going anywhere? the dems have been running congress since 06, and their token "point-man", pelosi, is as guilty as the rest. Personally, wouldn't mind seeing graham or shelby go, if only to replace them with another gop senator. Pelosi, otoh, needs to linger in the spotlight for as loong as possible.

there is an inherent amount of risk/reward for the admin to pursue the matter. If they want to sacrifice their ability to govern, for the sake of revenge, don't let me stop you.

[Reaganite Republican Resistance]

Apparently Pelosi and Obama forgot something: the CIA KILLS people… it’s in their job description.

Did those two really think that these killers were going to just meekly take-one-for-the-team… when the team captain is a lying, incompetent, arrogant nebbish who has basically told them they need to kiss his ring? -please

Obama really kicked an ant hill with his ill-advised and politically motivated release of Bush Administration memos regarding EITs- I’m sure he already regrets it.

Let’s have a hearing and get it all out there, shall we? Then watch the rats scatter who attacked Bush for protecting the country from terrorist attack… but who clearly knew what was going on five years before we heard a peep out of them

http://reaganiterepublicanresistance.blogspot.com/

[john]

I have no idea how this is going to ultimately end up.

If I had to guess I'd say the CIA probably has enough embarrassing info regarding operations high profile Dems have okayed to prevent formal hearings, or at the very least make the Dem. leadership look hypocritical.

Either way this should be entertaining.

[SacTownMan]

Pelosi is simply not credible!

Oh yea and Bush, Bush, Bush, blah, blah, blah, Bush, Bush, Bush!!

There, as our friend Lame-O would say is the "shorter" version on the troll rants!

Keep deflecting the attention from the runaway spending, big government socialist agenda of the "god king" by pointing to "Rush is the leader of the Republican party" or "Fox news is behind the Tea Parties" or "Palin, Palin, Palin, blah, blah, blah!!

The old "Rules for Radicals" handbook is working out real well for this administration!!

Let's just pray that we don't get attacked again while the trolls are ignoring the real threats to this country!

The only form of torture that comes to mind is Xerxes without the teleprompter or Pelosi in the middle of one of her "blink" fests!!

[mark l.]

"If I had to guess I'd say the CIA probably has enough embarrassing info regarding operations high profile Dems have okayed to prevent formal hearings, or at the very least make the Dem. leadership look hypocritical.

Either way this should be entertaining."

my take too. emphasis on "entertaining". cheney didn't come out recently, without having a few bullets in the gun. he was pushing for additional 'intel' releases, unspecified, obama balks, info was simply leaked.

[Bob]

It's amazing to see how worked-up conservative posters can get over the petty political aspect of this issue considering the larger context of it. It appears that Bush and Cheney (esp. the latter) approved of a plan to torture detainees so that they could be forced to verify a fictional link between Saddam Hussein and al Qaeda that could then be used to politically justify the otherwise-unsupportable invasion of Iraq. Either both the Democratic and Republican leadership of Congress knew about and tacitly approved of these illegal activities, or the CIA lied to them about it and told them specifically that they WEREN'T using torture.

This kind of behavior has disgraced our country and broken the law. The people who were responsible, whatever their position and whatever their political party, should be exposed. And if they were guilty of breaking the law, they should be prosectued. That's what having principles and respecting the rule of law entails. Actually doing something about it when those principles and laws are violated. Most right wingers would know nothing about that.

[templar knight]

Nice troll bashing, STM! As for Pelosi, she epitomizes everything that is wrong with liberals, beginning with the fact that they are all liars. And scum. Other than being lying scum, I guess they're okay. I just can't stand lying scum. Lol.

[DaveinPhoenix]

"They mislead us all the time,"

"They misrepresented every step of the way, and they don't want that focus on them, so they try to turn the attention on us,"

But Pelosi defended her own lack of action on the issue, saying her focus at the time was on wresting congressional control from Republicans so her party could change course.

"No letter could change the policy. It was clear we had to change the leadership in Congress and in the White House. That was my job - the Congress part," Pelosi said.

-- This deranged piece of human debris is seriously starting to sound like Captain Queeg. I swear to God, if she starts accusing Bush of stealing the ice cream, I'll split my sides laughing... and if this waste of sperm thinks the job of Congress is to "change the leadership", then she might want to re-read the Constitution to find out exactly what the responsibilities of Congress really are.

[Wallace]

No, blaming the CIA is not an exit strategy. Throwing stones at a tiger to get out of a fight with a sheep doesn't guarantee that you'll come out alive. That would be stupid. The Dems would be smart to use this "torture" thing sparingly; use it to distract people from their agendas, to gain higher moral standing, etc. But no, leftists don't know how to use their advantage for moderate gains. Their hatred of Bush and the US and their desire to remake the US to fit their worldview opens up this can of worm. They forced the Republican to call their bluff and get the CIA involved in the news. Suddenly they lost control of the issue and can't contain it. To make it worse, they rely on a defense by lying and putting the blame on the CIA. The Dems deserve whatever they get out of this when they put their party and political careers ahead of the national security.

[nina]

BO wants Hoyer in and botox out. look at the media attacking Pelosi. this is all planned.
pelosi is not helping herself and getting bad advice.

[mark l.]

"This kind of behavior has disgraced our country and broken the law. The people who were responsible, whatever their position and whatever their political party, should be exposed. And if they were guilty of breaking the law, they should be prosectued. That's what having principles and respecting the rule of law entails. Actually doing something about it when those principles and laws are violated. Most right wingers would know nothing about that."

cut me slice of that indignation. I'm watching the case of the left-the torture was done without congressional oversight, crumble.

"It's amazing to see how worked-up conservative posters can get over the petty political aspect of this issue considering the larger context of it."
the dem speaker of the house, with a low approval rating, just called the cia liars.

nina is correct. pelosi is doomed. worked up? where can I put the wood and the gasoline for the witch burning?

[Lala]

I'm with Nina and Mark "I Won" doesn't like Pelosi.

[Bob]

Being unprincipled as most of you are, of course, all you care about is Pelosi and other Democrats. I say drag this crap out and expose every last shred of evidence. If it turns out that Pelosi is lying about this, then she can hit the bricks with the rest of them. But the real criminals are Cheney, Bush, Yoo, and all the other immoral apparatchiks that hatched this plan, lied to the country about it and then let the underlings take the rap for it.

Mark, you are such a one-note partisan hack. Who cares about your obsession with Nancy Pelosi? Anybody with any guts would demand getting the facts out in the open and letting the chips fall where they will -- whether it's Pelosi, Cheney, Bush, Rumsfeld, Graham, Yoo or anyone else. If they ordered or approved of torture to advance anyone's political agenda, then they deserve to be prosecuted. And it shouldn't matter what party they're from. But most of the people on your side don't have the guts for real justice. You're too busy counting chits in your petty partisan war to worry about anything like that.

[templar knight]

"Being unpricipled..."

Irony-a liberal POS calling anyone unprincipled.
Torture-being forced to listen to Bob.
Waterboarding-a form of intense interrogation practiced on our troops.
Hypocrite-Bob.

[mark l.]

"Being unprincipled as most of you are, of course, all you care about is Pelosi and other Democrats."
not to be confused with the nobility of the left and their 'love' of bush.

"Mark, you are such a one-note partisan hack. Who cares about your obsession with Nancy Pelosi?"
apparently, you. you felt the need to post on it.

I actually love nancy pelosi, along with the messiah. Neither could be described as 'intelligent' or 'competent'. God forbid that the dems were led by people who actually knew what they were doing.

[daveinboca]

Pelosi is vying with Reid to be "MOST INEPT" Leader of a House of Congress in US history!! I'm guessing Jane Harman has a smile on her face now that Pelosi, who tried to screw fellow-Dem Jane last month with a CQ planted story, is now being slowly turned on the rotisserie!

Rush as usual has the perfect metaphor with the water-drop analogy, though being roasted to a slow BBQ'd slab of pork fits this earmark queen almost as well.

[Bob]

To be perfectly honest, Mark, I don't care much for Nancy Pelosi either. She's wussed out too many times over matters of principle, and now finds herself in a pickle for having cooperated too much when she should have put her foot down. But at least in her case, I believe, she was one of those who at least had enough principles to vote against the Iraq invasion.

Even Obama seems to be too willing to back down on this torture business. If the American people ever do get the serious investigation that this matter deserves, it'll only be done with the Democratic leadership dragging their feet the whole way. This country deserves better from both parties.

[mark l.]

just caught dick morris on greta, giving pelosi her last rights.

my obsession with pelosi?
it is very intriguing. the most recent memory of a major step down by a party leader was trent lott. the dems did well in pulling the strings on that baby, in the minority.

also holds shades of jim wright-
from wiki-
"Critics of the national security state attributed Wright's forced resignation to the critical questions he was raising in the late 1980s with regard to CIA covert actions in Nicaragua."

nancy v. cia?
this is as probably as close as a pol might get to have their brains bashed in, in a very metaphorical sense.

[13yankeebravo]

Amazing how that Stupid Bush outsmarts the highly inteligent dems time after time.

[Bob]

I don't know, mark. Both Pelosi and Graham came out today saying that the CIA is lying about their briefings on enhanced interrogation. If they HAD been told about it and were correctly called out on it recently by the CIA, they could probably just let the matter drop and nothing would come of it. Obama doesn't want to prosecute even Republicans like Cheney over it, and it's even harder to believe he'd want to give Pelosi or Graham a hard time about it even if they WERE told. And yet here is Pelosi throwing down the gauntlet and demanding an investigation. It doesn't seem consistent if she's lying about having been told.

Again, I just want to get to the truth. I've actually suspected all along that several congressional Dems like Pelosi, Rockefeller and Harman were in on it, but maybe I was wrong. It would make for a fascinating showdown no matter what. And I think that conservatives and liberals should all join in demanding that they get to the bottom of it, and let the chips fall where they may.

[mark l.]

I think the bush admin built a case for this eventuality, where dems would back off eits.

They pretty much knew they were in a grey area, and were going to do their best to innoculate themselves. They did.

this lindsey graham thing...

he was on the select committee on intelligence, 'starting 2007'. Graham may be able to interpret what was reported, but has no real first hand account. Is there a moment where he was ushered into a room where nancy was making her...deliberations? haven't looked, but my guess is, no.

[mark l.]

my bad,
bob graham.

which actually is even worse. bob graham can't even remember where he parks his car.

[mark l.]

in retrospect,
bob graham and nancy pelosi were the dems being briefed?

clearly the CIA/bush/cheney wanted the democratic "A Team"...
of Bingo.

Just trying to imagine Russ Fiengold going along for the trip, he probably would have sh*t a brick.
This matter needs to be investigated further. Taking advantage of the old and feeble minded.

[Philip McDaniel]

You can always tell when a liberal is lying -- it's when his/her lips are moving.
Having now painted themselves into a corner, the Democrats will say/do anything to cover their behinds. Let's have a full investigation complete with independent special prosecutors to examine every scrap of evidence pointing one way or the other, congressional hearings, continual media commentary...everything. Then have it stretch out for a couple of years. Should be just the thing to keep these lying leftist tied up in knots.

[W_WorstPresidentEver]

But wait, I thought we only tortured when the bomb was actually ticking, or the terrorists in flight. Turns out the REAL criteria was, Oh SH**, we screwed up, torture the bastards until they admit we were right.

Independent Prosecutor sounds great to me. Nothing I'd enjoy more than hearing Dick Cheney repeat, repeat, repeat:

"On the advice of my counsel I respectfully and regretfully decline to answer the question based on my constitutional rights"

[Bob]

Philip, I think you're mistaken if you think that all liberals categorically deny that the Dem leadership might have been involved -- or at least informed about -- some of these rendition/torture/warrantless spying programs. You should check out Digby or Greenwald to see the extent to which they've been scolding Pelosi and Reid all along for having spinelessly gone along with some of this stuff. A lot of liberals would welcome a no-holds-barred investigation that would get to the bottom of all of this, and as I keep saying, let the chips fall where they may.

[North Dallas Thirty]

Did anyone notice Pelosi supporter Bob's goofball rant above?

"It appears that Bush and Cheney (esp. the latter) approved of a plan to torture detainees so that they could be forced to verify a fictional link between Saddam Hussein and al Qaeda that could then be used to politically justify the otherwise-unsupportable invasion of Iraq."

Or, more precisely, they were doing it to get information to disrupt terror plots and capture al-Qaeda operatives.

The problem here is that the Obama Party lied to the American public. The case the CIA made to allow enhanced interrogation was irrefutable and was indeed helping stop and dismantle al-Qaeda. But unprincipled leftist hatemongers like Bob and Nancy Pelosi weren't interested in that; they were interested in smearing the Bush administration for political advantage.

So they lied. And now their lies are unraveling. Lying Bob claimed Pelosi never knew of these things; that unraveled. Lying Bob claimed Pelosi was never briefed; that unraveled. And now Lying Bob is trying to blame the CIA, which is unraveling even faster.

[Bob]

So, North Dallas, why not have a "truth commission" and air out all the facts? Why have partisan knuckleheads like us debate and speculate about it in a vacuum? Do you support a no-holds-barred investigation to get to the bottom of this, so we can know for sure whether Pelosi (and Bush and Cheney et al) are telling the truth or not? What do you say?

[North Dallas Thirty]

Because, Bob, the facts have been clearly aired already; Nancy Pelosi and the Obama Party knew about this, approved it, and then turned around and hypocritically lied to the American public.

The problem now is that you refuse to act. If you were truly principled, as you claim to be, you would be demanding the resignation of Nancy Pelosi and the impeachment of Barack Obama for lying to the American public and for supporting "torture", "extraordinary rendition", and blocking the release of what you claim are "torture" pictures.

Your calls for "truth commissions" are nothing more than obfuscation. You won't act on the truth as is obvious now. You have been exposed as nothing more than a partisan hypocrite and a liar.

[Bob]

Of course, North Dallas, you're such a blind partisan that the only conception of justice you can even imagine is to demand that your partisan enemies be impeached before you or anyone else even knows the facts. And meanwhile you ignore or automatically excuse anything that "your side" did. You don't have the guts for real honesty or justice. You only want partisan witch hunts. I say get the facts out and deal with WHOMEVER broke the law or lied about it, whether it's Pelosi, Cheney, or anyone else. Unlike you, I'm not asking that people on my side be spared.

[W_WorstPresidentEver]

Senator Graham also says the CIA isn't telling the truth. Why's that matter? Cause Graham logs everything he does every day.

President Bush, 2003: The United States is committed to the world-wide elimination of torture and we are leading this fight by example. I call on all governments to join with the United States and the community of law-abiding nations in prohibiting, investigating, and prosecuting all acts of torture and in undertaking to prevent other cruel and unusual punishment. I

[North Dallas Thirty]

"Of course, North Dallas, you're such a blind partisan that the only conception of justice you can even imagine is to demand that your partisan enemies be impeached before you or anyone else even knows the facts."

Of course, this is coming from the Obama Party and Bob, who screamed and demanded impeachment and resignations for the past eight years even though that would fall well "before you or anyone else even knows the facts".

All I'm doing, Bob, is simply applying your same Obama Party rules to your Obama Party leadership. Since you demanded resignations and impeachment without the facts for the Bush administration, you should also demand them for your Obama Party. After all, if you did something different, you would be a blind partisan, wouldn't you?

[North Dallas Thirty]

Meanwhile, back to Bob's rant:

"It appears that Bush and Cheney (esp. the latter) approved of a plan to torture detainees so that they could be forced to verify a fictional link between Saddam Hussein and al Qaeda that could then be used to politically justify the otherwise-unsupportable invasion of Iraq."

That is based on racist Obama puppet Colin Powell's latest "recollection", breathlessly pushed out this morning as a talking point through the Obama-ffington Post -- which has been thoroughly debunked.

"Lawrence Wilkerson, the former chief of staff to Secretary of State Colin Powell, has a new story out claiming that the Bush administration authorized the Egyptians to waterboard top al Qaeda camp commander Ibn al Shaykh al Libi in order to generate phony intelligence connecting Iraq and al Qaeda. But, Wilkerson’s story doesn’t square with the known facts.......

Wilkerson’s facts do not add up. Al Libi’s original testimony regarding Iraq-al Qaeda links occurred months before Wilkerson says waterboarding was used to get this admission out of him. We know this because the DIA filed a report saying that it did not trust al Libi’s testimony regarding the training of al Qaeda operatives in Iraq in February 2002 -– two months before Wilkerson says the Bush administration authorized the Egyptians to use harsh interrogation methods on al Libi.

So, when Wilkerson writes that “the [Bush] administration authorized [the] harsh interrogation [of al Libi] in April and May of 2002” and al Libi “had not revealed any al Qa’ida-Baghdad contacts” until then, he is clearly wrong. Al Libi, according to the DIA, first discussed this putative tie between the Iraqi regime and al Qaeda before Wilkerson says that harsh interrogation techniques were authorized by Vice President Cheney."

http://www.weeklystandard.com/weblogs/TWSFP/2009/05/contra_wilkerson.asp

[IslamoLlama]

I like how you link the weekly standard as though you think it has even the tiniest shred of credibility.

[North Dallas Thirty]

I like how Obama Party shills like yourself, IslamoLlama, think you can just lie with impunity.

Such as your delusional Al Gore, who insists that he waited two years to criticize the Bush administration, then was slapped by the selfsame Weekly Standard.

http://www.weeklystandard.com/weblogs/TWSFP/2009/05/al_gore_hypocritically_attacks.asp

I think it an excellent example of the stupidity of the usual Obama Party voter that their leadership can make such statements. As we see here, IslamoLlama and Bob do not ever under any circumstances question the talking points of their masters, even when said talking points can be demonstrated by multiple sources to be complete falsehoods. Instead, they attack the people who demonstrate that they are falsehoods, apparently for not shutting up and rewriting reality to suit what their Party demands.

[Bob]

So if I understand what you're saying between your spasms of spittle-flecked invective, North Dallas, it seems that you're using vague, confusing and contradictory reports from right wing blogs to demand that Nancy Pelosi should resign and Obama should be impeached. Meanwhile, using similarly vague and confusing evidence, you're saying that anyone who questions Cheney's claims is a racist liar.

But meanwhile, other reports have surfaced recently, such as one from Charles Duelfer (former Iraq weapons inspector and author of the "Duelfer Report") that says that in April 2003, Cheney's office intervened in the case of another detainee, Muhammed Khudayr al-Dulaymi, suggesting "enhanced interrogation" to try to establish a link between al Qaeda and Saddam. There does seem to have been a pattern here.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/5325680/Dick-Cheney-suggested-waterboarding-Iraqi-prisoner.html

Now that CIA Director Panetta has come out reaffirming the accuracy of CIA accounts about its congressional briefings, there seem to be more questions than answers. That's why I think a truth commission is needed, which, interestingly, is also what Nancy Pelosi is saying. Anyone with any guts and a sincere desire for the truth ought to call her bluff, if that's what they think it is. What are you afraid of, North Dallas?

[SacTownMan]

You know Dallas these trolls are simply spoon fed these talking points from their moonbat bases with Soro's pulling all of the strings in the background!

They are either too stupid to reason for themselves or they are just total tools for their great Xerxes and the puppet master!

Happy Cinco de Quatro Bro!

[Bob]

Yes, Sactown, nothing outside of the narrowest partisan interpretation of things is ever worth considering. It's all, "our side good, their side bad . . . ooga-booga!" Doesn't it get tiresome to be such a hate-mongering hack?

[North Dallas Thirty]

"So if I understand what you're saying between your spasms of spittle-flecked invective, North Dallas, it seems that you're using vague, confusing and contradictory reports from right wing blogs to demand that Nancy Pelosi should resign and Obama should be impeached."

Actually, Bob, we can simply use your own admittance.

"She's wussed out too many times over matters of principle, and now finds herself in a pickle for having cooperated too much when she should have put her foot down."

And:

"You should check out Digby or Greenwald to see the extent to which they've been scolding Pelosi and Reid all along for having spinelessly gone along with some of this stuff."

You yourself stated that Nancy Pelosi cooperated, went along with, and was complicit in what you claim was "torture". You have stated that anyone who cooperated with, went along with, or otherwise was complicit in "torture" should resign and be prosecuted.

Add to that your statement that Obama is "backing down" on "torture", when you have stated that anyone who "backs down" on or otherwise refuses to sthedop "torture" should resign from office or be impeached, and your own statements make it clear that Obama and Pelosi should resign or be impeached.

Put your money where your "principles" are, Bob. Or were you lying before?

Next up, you did read your own citation, didn't you, Bob?

"Two senior intelligence officials said that the April 2003 request was made regarding Muhammed Khudayr al-Dulaymi, head of the M-14 section of the Mukhabarat secret police, whose responsibilities included chemical weapons and contacts with terrorist groups."

In other words, what's being called for here is interrogation on Saddam's links to terrorist groups with the person whose responsibility it was to manage and maintain those links. The fact that you even cited that shows how desperate you are to spin away from the fact that your racist Colin Powell's timeline of lies just unraveled with the simplest of looks and references.

You and your party have already been demonstrated to be liars, Bob. Why should we believe your calls for "truth commissions"? Why don't you explain to us how the belief of the Obama Party that the CIA never lies (Leon Panetta) and that the CIA always lies (Nancy Pelosi) can be reconciled first?

[SacTownMan]

"hate mongering hack".... priceless!!!

Feeling the love there Bob-O!

Right back atcha!

Were you born stupid or did you have to work at it?

[North Dallas Thirty]

You tell us, Bob. You're the one who's screaming that the CIA lies and always lies yesterday, then flip-flopping and saying they didn't lie today.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/glennthrush/0509/Panetta_to_CIA_employees_We_told_Pelosi_the_truth.html

[Bob]

You goons are so unable to imagine that anyone might not automatically defend a member of their own party that you suppose that I'm making excuses for Pelosi. I'm not. I just want to know the truth, as I keep saying over and over. And I'm truly uncertain at this point who to believe. I don't care if it turns out that Pelosi is lying, the CIA is lying, they're both lying, or whatever. Regardless, I am pretty confident that Dick Cheney is the biggest liar of them all. This is such a tangled web of blockbuster allegations that I would love to see an honest and impartial investigation to sort it all out. It would be fascinating and healthy for the country, and I honestly don't care who might turn out to be vindicated or destroyed by it. I just want to know the truth.

You guys, in contrast, only want what will harm Democrats and help Republicans. You are total hacks.

[North Dallas Thirty]

You know the truth, Bob, because you've repeated it several times.

"She's wussed out too many times over matters of principle, and now finds herself in a pickle for having cooperated too much when she should have put her foot down."

And:

"You should check out Digby or Greenwald to see the extent to which they've been scolding Pelosi and Reid all along for having spinelessly gone along with some of this stuff."

You yourself stated that Nancy Pelosi cooperated, went along with, and was complicit in what you claim was "torture". You have stated that anyone who cooperated with, went along with, or otherwise was complicit in "torture" should resign and be prosecuted.

Add to that your statement that Obama is "backing down" on "torture", when you have stated that anyone who "backs down" on or otherwise refuses to stop "torture" should resign from office or be impeached, and your own statements make it clear that Obama and Pelosi should resign or be impeached.

Finally, you and your Obama Party, without truth commissions or facts, are now flatly stating that Dick Cheney lied.

What all this makes abundantly clear, Pelosi puppet, is that you are more than willing to accuse Dick Cheney prior to having any "facts" while you completely ignore the clear and obvious existing facts that your Obama Party leaders were fully aware of, supported, and endorsed what you are now screaming is "torture" and then lied about it, even to the point of accusing the CIA of always lying.

But you claim you want an "honest and impartial" investigation. Fine. Then demand that Pelosi and Obama step down until the "investigation" is complete. After all, you wouldn't want either of them to have an undue influence on the proceedings, would you? If they have done nothing wrong, they can be restored to their positions after the fact, right?

[Bob]

I know, North Dallas, that being a hack such as you are means that your ability to parse words and make subtle distinctions is severly limited, if not completely impaired. Being the perpetrator of a torture program, like Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Yoo, et al., is undoubtedly criminal. But not even the most strident critic of Pelosi or Obama is saying that they had anything to do directly with the Bush administration's torture program. What they're being criticized for is not having been more forceful in trying to stop the program when they found out about it (Pelosi), or in not being more aggressive about exposing and prosecuting those responsible for it (Obama). For example, a lot of liberals are angry that Obama is apparently refusing to release some of the remaining torture photos.

People like me may feel that not aggressively prosecuting war crimes makes people like Pelosi and Obama morally responsible to some extent, but few serious people are suggesting that either one is in any way criminally liable, which is the big distinction between them and the Bushies.

Any serious commentators are only discussing what effect this might have on Pelosi in terms of her standing as a political figure. The idea that Obama or Pelosi should be expected to step down as if they were criminally culpable while an investigation takes places is, to be honest, pretty idiotic. Are you really that big of a rube?