Sullivan's Errant Tea Party Shot

Given that The Masters is on this week - and on Twitter - which is pretty cool (it's a shame Dean Barnett didn't live to see that, even if I still think he didn't give Tiger Woods the credit he deserves), anyway, there's no reason to give Andrew Sullivan a mulligan for this huge swing and a whiff at the Tea Party movement.

I spent the better part of an hour earlier today scanning the various sites and blogs to try and understand what specifically the Fox-Pajamas tea parties are about. Having absorbed about as much of the literature as I can, I have to say I'm still befuddled.

Sullivan seems to wear befuddlement as a sort of state of grace these days from what I've been reading. True to recent form, his post doesn't illuminate much. I'll dispense with his first three suggestions for what the movement might be about in his distorted view by bullet pointing them and get to the fourth item below.

Option 1: It's a protest of the bank bailouts

Option 2: It's a protest against tax hikes.

Option 3: It's a protest against illegal immigration.

Option 4: It's a protest against government debt. Yay! I will leave aside the somewhat awkward fact that Fox News and Pajamas Media barely covered the massive debt racked up by the Republicans during a period of economic growth. Instead, I'll proffer a simple point: If the tea-partiers are concerned about debt and concerned about taxes, one presumes they favor drastic spending cuts. But what are the tea-partiers proposing to do to Medicare, Medicaid, and social security?

Andy was off obsessing over one Palin child, or another back when Bush began the bail-out program that fueled the Tea Party movement, so one might forgive him that. But it is worth noting how he so completely over looks the obvious.

Yes, there are major financial challenges in America's future precisely because of the issues Sullivan cites. Therefore, isn't it logical that driving up the debt several times whatever Bush did is worthy of protest? And all that while mortgaging our children's futures with more and more bail outs and a budget that will break generations of tax payer's backs? And all before we've even begun to think about tackling the big ticket items Sullivan so half-heartedly laments?

Isn't all of that enough to make any serious fiscal conservative get up out of their chair and scream STOP!!

One might think so, any way.

But not for Andrew Sullivan. Of course not. Somewhere between Iraq and that either very hard, or very soft place that has become Andrew Sullivan's head, there's really only one issue that matters to him any more - gay marriage. And that's fine, really. Everyone needs a good cause.

But he might at least be a little bit honest and admit that anything pro the political party he sees as for it, or anything against the political party he sees as opposed to it, is just fine with him.

Somewhere during his round Andy left the golf course and landed on the gay marriage race track and now he's nothing more than a one trick pony simply filling in the spaces on his blog until he reaches the finish line. Who knows, maybe he did it for love. As I said, nothing wrong with that ... for an individual, really. But for someone passing himself off as a conservative pundit like Sullivan it's become little more than a tired old joke.

Comments

[mark l.]

by sheer numbers, it will be the largest protest in us history.

it will be the first protest my father has even attended, and he has been encouraging me to go to my local gathering point.

my father has been a 'lifetime' hater of the gop, and he has led a very long life.

[Joe]

Thanks George W. Bush. We need Bush's anti-terrorism measures so we can go after the Timothy McVeigh-types on the right wing. This is how we can take all of their guns away--by declaring them terrorists! We will need Bush's Draconian laws to make it easier to identify and detain the culprits so we can put them into our FEMA concentration camps. Then we can take all the guns and give them to ACORN, illegal immigrants, and Katrina survivors. After we impose Sharia law and redistribute the combined wealth we take from the ultra-rich, our dream republic will finally begin to coalesce. Our new flag will then be a picture of Obama's real birth certificate that shows he was born in Baghdad and is actually a hybrid child composed of the DNA of Saddam Hussein, Osama bin Laden, and Barbra Streisand.

The Tea Parties make it even easier. Sign every petition! Please!

[24AheadDotCom]

Sully's point #3 is hilarious. Armey, Norquist, and the Kochtopus all support massive immigration, and now they're pulling the strings on the "parties". The idea that they'd oppose something that those behind the scenes of the "parties" support is pretty funny. If the "partiers" try to make this about #3, bye-bye FreedomWorks Google map!

If there's anyone with a brain who doesn't want to waste their time following leaders who are corrupt or minor leaders who have no clue about how to do things that are effective, help me block an amnesty that's current in Congress:

http://24ahead.com/s/dream-act

Please do something effective rather than listening to incompetent or corrupt leaders.

[gus]

Maybe someone could ask Andy Sullivan why he is embracing a HETEROSEXUAL tradition for gays.
I don't see any Hetero's embracing gay traditions.

[Colin]

I exchanged emails with Andrew Sullivan over this very topic today. You can read a transcript here:

http://togetrichisglorious.blogspot.com/2009/04/email-to-andrew-sullivan.html

[sears poncho]

Just remember, he's the last TRUE conservative. Do they still introduce him as such when he goes on TV?

[anon]

Who cares what Andrew Sullivan says? He's not a conservative, as far as I can tell he's a centrist liberal who used the "Gay Conservative" mantle to get himself a nice helping of fame and fortune.

Jesus Christ, the man is still obsessing over Sarah Palin's family life, he's a freaking buffoon.

But, I am starting to wonder what has happened to the IQ of the typical GOP elected official/conservative/voter...because people are saying really dumb stuff, even assuming some of it is taken out of context by a hostile media.

I don't get the problem w/Glen Beck though, he doesn't strike me as crazy, maybe he's emotional, but I don't get the hostility from the MSM about this guy.

[Zork]

Sully is to Conservatism what obama is to incompetance.

[BlogDog]

Poor Andy's befuddlement grows daily as any semblance of conservatism disappears in the rearview mirror. Hmm. "Rearview." Not a good choice of words.

[24AheadDotCom]

Here's some background on those pushing the parties:

thinkprogress.org/2009/04/09/lobbyists-planning-teaparties

But, let's forget all that and the carping at Sully and someone answer this: how could the "parties" ever succeed at whatever their goal is?

You don't have the numbers; there are only so many "kulaks" around. Unemployed waitresses (possibly those stiffed out of their tips by an objectivist) aren't really going to be interested in protesting alongside those with purely selfish reasons such as BHO affecting whether they can buy a new flat panel TV or alongside loons waving John Galt signs. The numbers just are not there.

Politicians have no reason to be worried about the parties because *you have no power*. You don't have the numbers. And, your only technique is one that's purely based on numbers. Even if you got all the turnout you expect and more, you're going to hit the wall.

You have to actually think this through and come up with a way to do things effectively. See the link in my first comment.

[bloodstar]

I have my doubts on it being the 'largest protest in US history' and even if it does end up being the largest, that doesn't change the fact that it still only represents the views of maybe 25% of the population.

People are still responding tactically to Obama, and so what you're seeing are a series of events and the occasional stunt in an effort to gain publicity to whatever issue people feel are relevant. And in the past these events would garner enough press coverage that could sway the rest of the population. But right now, like it or not, most of the US population simply does NOT care.

Everyone is too focused on their mortgages, their jobs, trying to ensure that they're not going to be next, Their 401Ks are toasted, and in general they've seen the promises made that really, private retirement is the way to go, implode faster than the value of their houses. Meanwhile the People speaking out and are the public face of the opposition to Obama are too busy trying to push their ratings up, too busy trying to out do the last thing done, to come up with any sort of good strategic counter plan.

If you're going to fight Obama, you can't fight Tactically, you have to come up with a viable strategic plan that the general public can look at and say, 'ok that could work'. As it is, I haven't seen anything coming out that remotely resembles a plan. Yes, I know that the current mantra is opposition, oppose bailouts, oppose spending more money, etc etc. But that doesn't solve the central issue facing the economy, which is a collapse in *spending* leading to a deflationary trap.

Solve the deflationary trap and you'll have me on board in a heartbeat. (I've voted Libertarian every single Presidential election and contributed to Barr and Paul this last election) But so far I haven't seen a cohesive plan that fights the deflationary trap in any way shape or form.

Fair Tax doesn't fight it since it is effectively revenue neutral. Dramatic reduction in the size of government would exacerbate the deflationary sprial (god I hate saying that, but it's true). And I know that stimulus spending doesn't fight the root causes of the problem, but I'd rather have an economy that's functioning so we can fix it, than to have no economy at all.

The Tea Parties are a great idea for Publicity, So was the Ron Paul Blimp. So was the 5th of November fundraising, and I hate to say it, the Tea Parties are going to end up the same way, Great publicity that people go, that's nice, and go back to wondering why their houses is worth half it's value and if they'll ever be able to retire.

[wonelacko]

Lonewacko (24ahead) is angry because the right blogosphere didn't endorse his plan for astroturf questioning in townhall meetings. The "conspiracy" theory of the tea parties has long since been exploded.

[toad]

Sigh, the Tea Parties are, despite what you here from opportunists climbing on board, a bottoms up movement. The important thing is not that the demonstrations will accomplish anything directly but that they give people who are unsatisfied with government economic policy especially the spending part of it, a chance to meet face to face.

At least that was what I first thought. I figured the main stream media would ignore them and eventually they'd fizzle out. Real people either have jobs or are looking for work. But low and behold the dummies on the left started paying attention and are apparently getting nervous. Started calling them names and acting as if it was a real serious VRWC.
Now if they send their operatives out to mess with the people at those parties the shit will hit the fan and they'll create the monsters that they fear in their nightmares. Simon says he isn't a militia member yet.

[Bill Johnson]

Ummm, Zork, that's a little deep, man. I think you left an inadvertent "in" in there.

[Bill Johnson]

bloodstar - why must we 'solve the deflationary trap'? Isn't deflation the antidote to inflation (in this case, of the value of houses)?

Or maybe I should ask - please tell me more about the 'deflationary trap' and the dangers therein.

[Sam the Plumber]

The tea parties are obviously an anti-Obama reaction. The fact is that there was no Conservative anger against the Republican power grabs under the Bush administration.

Unfortunately for tea partiers and more aggressive right-wing organizations is that the same tools Bush used for foreign terrorists can easily be applied to far-right groups of _just one_ of them pulls a McVeigh. Think of the national outrage if somebody who is with the tea partiers does something very stupid... then the rules Bush fought for that Conservatives were silent about could be used against them.

This is why the tea party movement has no legs: Conservatives sat by silent while those who shared their moral worldview destroyed the things that comprise their political worldview. You guys let it happen, and to get up-in-arms ONLY NOW is so patently hypocritical that it defies explanation.

The tea partiers have no overarching reason reason to protest other than the fact that they hate Obama with all their heart.

[Jim Baxter]

"NO ONE IS SMARTER THAN THEIR CRITERIA."

semper fidelis
"Got criteria?" See Psalm 119:1-176 kjv

+ + +

[Jim Baxter]

Human knowledge is a fraction of the whole universe.
The balance is a vast void of human ignorance. Human
reason cannot fully function in such a void; thus, the
intellect can rise no higher than the criteria by which it
perceives and measures values.

Humanism makes man his own standard of measure.
However, as with all measuring systems, a standard
must be greater than the value measured. Based on
preponderant ignorance and an egocentric carnal
nature, humanism demotes reason to the simpleton
task of excuse-making in behalf of the rule of appe-
tites, desires, feelings, emotions, - and glands.

Because man, hobbled in an ego-centric predicament,
cannot invent criteria greater than himself, the humanist
lacks a predictive capability. Thus, his man-made criteria
rises no higher than eyebrows - and too often, no higher
than pubic hair! Without instinct or transcendent criteria,
humanism cannot evaluate options with foresight and
vision for progression and survival. Lacking foresight,
man is blind to potential consequence and is unwittingly
committed to mediocrity, collectivism, averages, and re-
gression - and worse. Humanism is an unworthy worship.

The void of human ignorance can easily be filled with
a functional faith while not-so-patiently awaiting the
foot-dragging growth of human knowledge and behav-
ior. Faith, initiated by the Creator and revealed and
validated in His Word, the Bible, brings a transcend-
ent standard to man the choice-maker. Other philo-
sophies and religions are man-made, humanism, and
thereby lack what only the Bible has:

1.Transcendent Criteria and
2.Fulfilled Prophetic Validation.

The vision of faith in God and His Word is survival
equipment for today and the future. Only the Creator,
who made us in His own image, is qualified to define
us accurately.

Human is earth's Choicemaker. Psalm 25:12 He is by
nature and nature's God a creature of Choice - and of
Criteria. Psalm 119:30,173 His unique and definitive
characteristic is, and of Right ought to be, the natural
foundation of his environments, institutions, and re-
spectful relations to his fellow-man. Thus, he is orien-
ted to a Freedom whose roots are in the Order of the
universe. selah

"No one is smarter than their criteria." jfb

[Nagarajan Sivakumar]

"People are still responding tactically to Obama, and so what you're seeing are a series of events and the occasional stunt in an effort to gain publicity to whatever issue people feel are relevant. And in the past these events would garner enough press coverage that could sway the rest of the population. But right now, like it or not, most of the US population simply does NOT care."

Wow, there are quite a few arm chair generals out here... trying to tell people what they should be doing instead of what they ARE doing..

bloodstar, allow me to offer an observation as a foreigner, but you people are hooked to the idea of instant gratification, are'nt you ? I could be wrong... but what is it that you are expecting people from ordinary walks of life WHO HAVE NEVER been in an organized grassroots movement to do ? Do you want them to instantly become a galvanizing force that offers political solutions ?? They are not robots pre-programmed to come up with plans when things go awfully wrong.

What part of "protests" do you not understand ??They are not doing this for any political party or to get their "fame". No one knows who they are, and what their names are. As you pointed out, no one really cares.

You are joking about the "deflationary" spiral when the Government has been printing trillions of dollars out of nowhere... The long term concerns are about inflation which are absolutely certain to follow. I have not heard "libertarians" talk about collapse in "spending" ! When you say that people are going to go back to their houses that are half the value they were before, what makes you think that they are going to spend ??

And if you are anything close to actually being a libertarian, you would understand that these home values were massively inflated - and this is a market correction THAT HAS TO HAPPEN. It could go worse, before it recovers... but thats what happens when you have excess inventory of houses on the market.But there are some very early signs of the home market sales turning around. There are some good deals out there and people are trying to buy them. The people who have money, that is.And WHAT EXACTLY have you suggested... NOTHING.. nothing but arm chair quarterbacking.. no wonder libertarians have never been a viable third party in this country.

[William Teach]

Andy was off obsessing over one Palin child, or another back when Bush began the bail-out program...

He's still obsessing, thinking that the way to the Proof That Trig isn't Sarah's is through Levi. Dude is less coherent then a crack addled street person. And less relevant then one, too. Now that he is mostly being ignored, I wonder how long the people who run The Atlantic will put up with his insanity?

[Ken]

Note that the leftist above refers to us as "kulaks." For those of you who don't know, the kulaks were the Russian middle class who were EXTERMINATED BY JOSEF STALIN. What this cowardly piece of shit is saying here is, first of all, an endorsement of Stalinism, and second, a call for extermination of the tea party protesters.

Tell you what, keyboard commando. I live in Reno, NV. Why don't you make me your first victim, tough guy? I bet you've never done a day's work in your life, you simpering pansy.

[Ken]

Sorry, 24ahead, I didn't catch the context of what you were saying. I see now that you were criticizing the tea parties from the RIGHT, not the left. I still disagree, but I see now that you're not a wannabe Stalin.

[David]

Rupert Murdock's Fox News astroturfed faux outrage.

Rupert Murdock has been trying to influence American elections to benefit his corporate interests for years now.

[Eric]

I'm e-mailing Glenn Beck's producer to get Dan on the air. He's Glenn-worthy.

[SacTownMan]

Andy and his troll minions are just pissing themselves over the "Tea Party" movement.

They simply can't get the fact that people are fed up with BOTH parties and their willingness to sell their country out.

Liberty is a cause worth fighting for and the attempts at simplfication of the root cause of the protests are a waste of time.

Common folk have reached a point where they have had enough of the 500 or so elected representitives that are willing to mortgage our childrens future for their spending excesses and socialist conversion.

These folks are not listening and need a reminder of just who their real boss is. Sorry but it's not Barry, Uncle George, San Fran Nan, Price Harry, Turbo Tim and the rest of the asshats in Washington.

They will pay attention and get the message or they can look forward to another 1994 mid-term election revolt!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._House_election,_1994

[Antonio]

I have no problem with the tea-parties. I don't agree with their reasoning and find most of their arguments to be wrong, and even worse, intellectually dishonest, I have no problem with people having a venue in which they can discuss their grievances with their government and try to make sense of what is happening in their world.

And the amount of money our government is spending is a legitimate grievance. But I still haven't seen anyone actually address Andrew's point, though. Riehl hasn't and neither has anyone who agrees with him in this post. It's funny that our government spending, which, let's be real, was out of whack for almost the entirety of the Bush Administration, was not a problem so long as the Republicans were in office. I kind of just chalk it up to conservatives rooting for the home team, really. The problem is that the people who attend the tea-parties and the Fox News pundits, don't admit that. They go on and on about Obama increasing the debt and bankrupting our future, but there was nary a peep out of any them when Bush was adding $30 trillion with the Medicare prescription drug entitlement, or when his administration was adding a huge amount to the deficit by leading us into Iraq. Suddenly, though, when their team has been relegated to being the opposition party, Republicans rediscover their philosophical inclination for fiscal austerity.

I don't agree with everything the administration or Congress has done; the bailout situation has been choppy and is ripe with abuse (the banks are probably licking their chops over the PPIP auctions), and I've been appalled at their continuation and in some cases expansion of the state secrets by the Obama DOJ. But, at least for the economy, what would have been the preference? Let the largest banks fail and take everyone down with them? Freeze spending and make the short-term situation worse? If there was a freeze on spending, A LOT of the people at those tea parties would be hurting a lot worse than they are now.
I agree that, sooner or later, taxes are going have to be raised to pay for our debt-financed spending (and it'll suck) but even if there were spending increases only to keep up with inflation, taxes would still have to be raised. Part of being a fiscal conservative, at least in my book, is paying for services rendered, and there are a lot of services that people want. And in the end, if you want to be intellectually consistent, you have to come to terms with this: it's not "pork" or discretionary spending or bailouts or anything else that is breaking our collective bank. It's the military, medicare, medicaid, and social security. I doubt very much that most of the people at the tea parties want to actually cut any of those things. Which means that in the end, taxes have to be raised.

[jamie]

These goofy tea parties are for the lunatic fringe to express their anger that Obama won the election. No more, no less. That means there will be plenty of kooks claiming he wasn't born in the U.S., or that he's going to take away the guns, or other total blather. And it will just come across to the majority as another example of the lack of poor mental health care in this country. You teabaggers are not serious people. You really are just throwing a collective tantrum.

[CindyG]

Instead of trying to discern the intent of Tea Partiers by "absorbing the literature", why doesn't Sullivan just go to one?

[24AheadDotCom]

Regarding the comment from "wonelacko" above, a couple months back I left a comment similar to that above on a poll that Instapundit was running on his site. Someone using the name "lonewackowatcher" or similar responded. What "lonewackowatcher" apparently didn't realize is that the poll Instapundit was using disclosed the first three numbers of the person's IP address.

The IP address for "lonewackowatcher" appeared to be at the University of Tennessee.

Now, I'm not saying that "wonelacko" is Instapundit, but the other anti-me comments usually use a different tone, use swear words, etc.

As for the "conspiracy theory" about the "parties", see the link in my second comment. I've been very critical of that site in the past, but a preliminary glance shows they're correct about who's really pushing the tea parties.

As for my proposal, I don't necessarily want anyone who'd think the tea parties will be effective to help out. I only want smart people who want to do effective things.

[Dan Riehl]

"He's Glenn-worthy"

LOL Send him this - he'll relate:

http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2007/07/25-less-than-di.html

[mishu]

24, I've seen a lot of comments by you or someone claiming to be you or someone referring to posts in your blog. All in the last 24 hours. I don't buy that it's only you doing all that posting. Someone must be financing your mighty organization. I haven't narrowed it down yet but I think he was an invenstment partner in the Carlyle Group.

[A Giant Slor]

LOL. When Ken thought 24ahead was a liberal, that commenter was a "leftist," "cowardly piece of shit" who endorsed Stalinism and called for "extermination of the tea party protesters." Further, 24ahead was a "simpering pansy" who has "never done a day's work in [his] life."

3 minutes later, when Ken realized 24ahead was a conservative, 24ahead magically became alright. Ken merely disagrees with 24ahead now.

This is a microcosm of the entire right-wing response to Obama. Right-wingers believe (or at least say) that Obama's policies amount to a evil, tyrannical dictatorship that's destroying America. Yet, Bush started the bailouts, nationalized an insurance company, added a $17 trillion prescription drug entitlement program, and had a government-mandated public school initiative titled "No Child Left Behind" (good policies all) -- and barely a peep was heard from the right in protest. So if a liberal does it, he's a Stalinist bent on exterminating you, but if a conservative does it, he's a great American, does that about sum it up?

Bush also wire-tapped citizens without warrants, invaded a country on false pretenses, created secret internment camps beyond the reach of our justice system, and approved the torture of inmates (many of them wrongly imprisoned) in the name of fighting a "war on terror" -- and the right actually cheered.

Now Obama has moved to undo most of these tyrannical policies, and the right is screaming that he's -- a tyrant.

Just another day in crazy, mixed-up teabagger world, where good is bad, up is down, black is white, and Obama is Stalin, Hitler, and Al Capone all in one. Yup -- you people are nuttier than squirrel shit.

[Jim Treacher]

It's just that sort of measured, thoughtful response that we've come to expect from our betters.

[Jim Treacher]

"It's funny that our government spending, which, let's be real, was out of whack for almost the entirety of the Bush Administration, was not a problem so long as the Republicans were in office."

I was under the impression that the current spending has already dwarfed all the spending Bush did, but it sounds like you've got better numbers.

[Lala]

To quote Robert Gibbs

"Didn't that happen last week?"

If it's good enough for Gibbs it should be good enough for you liberals. Bush is so ovah. Get with today.

[Peg C.]

Sullivan is simply brain-damaged. There can be no other explanation for the erratic and illogical statements he makes.

The effectiveness of the Tea Partiers - and the inherent uniqueness of massive protests by huge numbers of conservatives (we used to be called the Silent Majority way back in my youth) - are proven by the statists' all-out effort to prove us irrelevant at best and a threat to the republic at worst. This is all good. If we don't scare our opponents out of their wits we are not doing this right. Sullivan in hysteria is a good sign!

Also, on a side note, and stealing this from a blog comment somewhere: This movement is for Americans to speak out and politicians to shut up and listen. Speaking for myself, I want all politicians quaking in their boots.

[Paul]

The tea parties the way I see it.
The tea parties are about taxes spending and the movement towards socialism. First of all taxes.
1- I am and will always be opposed to any tax increase. You cannot tax your way out of this mess your in. When you raise capitol gains taxes then investors will not invest. THus the fall of the stock market. Energy tax. Obamas energy tax is an estimated increase of 1500 dollars per year per home. As a small business man I have property tax, sales tax employment tax matching social security tax, workmans comp. So what do I do, I lay off and make the other employees pick up the slack.Thus higher unemployment. So raise your taxes and see what the results are.

2-Bailouts
Bailouts have not helped anyone except the people being bailed out. I have friends who work selling cars and RV's. The problem is people cannot get financing. So lets give more stimulus so that failing companies can remodel their offices, go on trips, and receive big bonusus.

3- Illegal Immagration
I have no problems with people coming here to work. The problem I have is there are laws that are not being enforced. I your not going to enforce them, change them.

4- Government Debt

For people that say this was a Bush era problem, thats right. But the dems need to nut up and take some of the responsibility, because if i'm not mistaken didn't all of this really start getting bad about 2 years before his term was up. Wait a minute the Dem's took control of the house and senate about that time. About the same time gas went to $4.00 a gal. About the same time they said Fannie and Freddie were great. So both parties are responsible.

So lets get our heads out, quit spending stupid money, quit getting our feelings hurt,quit thinking about what Europe thinks, and take care of our business