Are Tea Parties America's Last, Best Hope?

To support the points I make below, I'd remind you that, regardless of the questioner's presumed partisan political motivations, just yesterday an American citizen asked a powerful elected official in Washington a valid question and was told, “Why don’t you mind your goddamned business?” ... and it wasn't even news.

The question as to whether or not the current Tea Party movement may, or may not be America's last best hope needs to be carefully framed. I'm not posing it to be hyperbolic. I'm quite serious. At least consider these facts.

There are two significant American institutions, each with critical adjuncts, all profoundly broken today. Without those systems operating properly anything approaching a future for a more or less traditional America may be doomed. And it may be that only a genuinely people-powered movement can put them right.

While it's become a cliche, our Federal government is broken. One need look no further than the so-called Reagan Revolution that took control of Washington and was co-opted and ground down until it became the very thing it opposed after less than two decades to confirm that.

As its adjunct, our Federal Election process is rather battered, too. Through gerrymandering, the influence of money, political control of local electoral processes, and other factors, the current electoral system central to the health of our democracy is severely damaged, at best.

The other broken institution is the American press. One need only measure what we are now seeing out of Washington against what our major press led many Americans to think they'd get by electing Obama, to speak to perhaps its greatest flaw - a genuine liberal bias. While they might not have actually lied to the people pre-election, at best they obscured a significant portion of the truth close observers at least somewhat understood.

As an adjunct to that, I'd argue any significant alternative and allegedly more Right-leaning voice in American major media is broken as well. My personal thinking there is that the price of admission for some would be conservative and libertarian voices was to abandon so much of what they would allege to now represent, so as to render their voices mostly meaningless. Either that, or any entry has been so well-filtered as to make any alleged effort along those lines moot.

I believe this can be seen as happening in conservative blogs to a degree now, too. Only by tempering arguments, carefully selecting words and even positions do they have a prayer of being elevated through major media unless caricature is the real intent.

A quick reminder of how this piece started. How can the above not be true if this below is factually the case?

... just yesterday an American citizen asked a powerful elected official in Washington a valid question and was told, “Why don’t you mind your goddamned business?” ... and it wasn't even news.

Consequently, we now have an administration hell bent on re-shaping America into an image upon which the American people have never had an honest chance to vote. And it also seems this administration aims to do it before the people have a formal opportunity to vote again.

I'm not a demonstrator by nature and am completely open to any solid argument that offers a legitimate way forward for those on the Center-Right with a strong and somewhat immediate desire to be heard. So, if it isn't taking to the streets, please tell me what it is.

Until I see one I can sincerely believe in, I think the Tea Party concept may be the only potentially successful option we have left.

Comments

[thirteen28]

"I believe this can be seen as happening in conservative blogs to a degree now, too. Only by tempering arguments, carefully selecting words and even positions do they have a prayer of being elevated through major media unless caricature is the real intent."

And that is a fools errand, as you demonstrated below in the post about Steele's NYT interview. Those who believe that all the argument tempering and careful word selection is going get you any more credibility with the MSM are both deluding themselves and castrating themselves of their conservatism - all while alienating themselves with their base/core readership. That's how you end up with "conservatives" like David Brooks and Andrew Sullivan, who call themselves that, but just don't believe in any of its core principles. Kind of like (as George Carlin once said) having your name spelled "S-M-I-T-H" and pronouncing it "Janopsky."

"Consequently, we now have an administration hell bent on re-shaping America into an image upon which the American people have never had an honest chance to vote. And it also seems this administration aims to do it before the people have a formal opportunity to vote again."

In other words, turning the country into a soft tyranny. Sure, we will have all of the trappings of a democratic republic, elections, representatives, etc., just enough to delude ourselves that we are free (like they do in Europe and Canada). But in the end, the leviathan of the federal government will control every aspect of our lives, no matter what "choice" we make on election day.

Great post. Can't wait until April 15th.

[templar knight]

As you say, Dan, the media and the election process are broken. Yes, I would say the only thing left to do is protest. On the streets, in your Congresscritter's office, on the phone, wherever you get the chance.

As proof of what you alluded to, Dan, Newsweek told Rush to shut up on its cover today. Pathetic. I wonder how the liberal media whould react to a photo of Michelle's big butt with the caption, "I've never been proud of America."

[HoweeCarr]

"Are Tea Parties America's Last, Best Hope?"

No. They are getting attention on/from some of the Right blogosphere, but they are just our equivalent of the Cindy Sheehan/Code Pink moonbats.

[A real question]

If your frame of reference is Idiocracy, then the "tea parties" are indeed America's "last, best hope".

However, those of us whose frame of reference is *not* Idiocracy might disagree. We'd point out (for instance), that the question asked of Rangel was just a couple steps up from the Springer show and a few steps up from the DailyKos' own Mike Stark (the guy who asked George Allen if he spat on his wife or similar).

And, we'd point out that the best hope for the U.S. would be if regular citizens asked politicians real questions about important matters. Rangel is helping spend trillions of dollars, and the best that Mattera and his blog friends can come up with is a stupid question about hypocrisy? If Mattera had had the intelligence to engage Rangel in a debate about important matters, he could have had an impact on Rangel's career and sent a message to the rest. Instead, he just put on a worthless show.

There's a real question at my name's link. Note that no major bloggers (aside from Malkin, briefly) have ever encouraged people to go out and ask real questions and put politicians on the spot about things that actually matter. Don't expect that to change: those major bloggers aren't interested in actually doing something, they just want to put on a show.

[Jana]

Howee, you're overlooking those that are participating in the Tea Parties. Cindy Sheehan/Code Pink are activists -- that is, it is their job to dress up in feathers and face paint and shout ridiculous things at army recruiters. Those participating in Tea Parties often say that they've never protested before. The numbers protesting are substantial, and like letters to a Congressman, they represent a greater number of Americans.

Your analogy is wanting.

[Santiago Javier Valenzuela]

If you'll recall, the original Tea Party was a call to revolution, once the government was found to be unresponsible to its citizens and fundamentally set against the interests of all free colonists.

Just remember that. Democrats have had vocal, even professional protestors up in their business for a long time. They take it for what it is - a way for people who are, for the most part, going to bite the bullet and vote for you anyway to blow off steam.

I don't take it seriously, and neither will the political class, because there is, fundamentally, no bite behind the tea party protests. I'm sure it will make some people feel a little better, but as far as substantive results - I predict little to nothing.

[joe]

No, tea parties are not the last best hope.

Politicians will finally get it, when they are confronted with the end of a rope or the point of a gun. It may have to come to that, if these politicians don't get it - taxpayers are not an endless source of revenue. They really have to get their act together and cut spending - just like you and I do at home - when faced with revenue shortfalls.

[Jack Clancy]

I'd buy this theory if I thought any press would show up at the tea parties, which unfortunately they have not.

Eventually we'll need to act as PETA does and throw a few nudes out there. Fortunately,(at least in the case of the female side of things) we have a far more attractive crop of potential nudists than the bad guys have.

And speaking of going Galt, I'm on page 100 of over a thousand in Atlas Shrugged and I'm already considering shutting down my business tomorrow.

[Toads]

It the old days, people worked at one company their whole career. They stayed in one town their whole career. There were 'company towns'.

Now people change their employers, and even their cities, quite easily.

We are not far from a time when people change their countries easily as well. Most Americans are oblivious to the fact that millions still come to America to find a better life. Pretty soon, Americans will do what their ancestors did, and emigrate for economic reasons.

Except, they will be emigrating out of America.

When an employer or town no longer is the best choice, people move. Pretty soon, people will move out of America as needed. Why stay here when some other country has lower taxes, better jobs (albeit from US corporations), and less leftism?

Why not move to China if China is a better practitioner of free-market enterprise than America? Why is America any more worthy of an 'I'll go down with my ship' loyalty than a corporation that no longer has good management? Change jobs, change countries.

Read here how government is rapidly and irrevocably destroying Silicon Valley.

[Toads]

http://www.singularity2050.com/2009/01/why-government-is-set-to-extinguish-silicon-valley.html

How government is destroying Silicon Valley.

[rachel]

There is a movement afoot to send tea bags to the Whitehouse on April 1, so that they are bombarded with them by April 15. Taxation without Representation is Tyranny. Was true in 1773 and is still a danger.

I suggest you send a PHOTO of a tea bag instead of a real one, because the P.O. might not deliver "puffy" envelopes to the WH. So send them to:

1600 Pennsylvania Ave. Washington, DC 20500

[Liberals are Weird]

The real problem is that 90-95% of black people vote Democrat.

If this was not the case, if blacks voted just 60% Democrat, then we would not have these problems. Rangel would not exist. Obama would not be President. Hell, the Democrat party would never have drifted this far left after 1968.

Democrats have never, ever come close to winning even 45% of the non-black vote in any Presidential election since 1968. Without the black vote, they are nothing.

Think about it.

But unfortunately, blacks will keep voting Democrat until America becomes like, well, Zimbabwe. Or South Africa. Or Liberia. Or Haiti.

[Lily]

I think we should give it a try - but it has to be big. Meaning all of you negative thinkers have to come out too.

I went to the protest in Denver on the day Obama signed the "stimulus" bill. I encouraged a couple of my co-workers to come - it was only a few blocks from our work, and during the lunch hour. When I got back, one of them asked me how many came and I told him we were about 200-300 strong. He was disappointed saying, "I was hoping there would be more like 1,000". But you didn't come, I said. He said he was too busy with work.

We've got to get together and be heard. We have to come out in numbers. We cannot leave it to others to carry the water. Its up to all of us.

Hopefully, it won't take the "end of a rope or the point of a gun" as noted above. Maybe just the threat that they may lose their jobs (and power and privilege, etc)

Also, you need to point out to the clueless among your acquaintance (Dem voters) that they WILL pay for this debt and increase in taxes. Not necessarily with the check to the IRS, but with lost jobs and opportunity.

This may be our last chance.

[Liberals are Weird]

"I suggest you send a PHOTO of a tea bag instead of a real one, because the P.O. might not deliver "puffy" envelopes to the WH."

If you are sending photos, skip the teabags and go straight to a painting of Marie Antoinette about 20 seconds after the guillotine has fallen.

Or an actual photo of Mussolini hung upside down. Or of Nikolai Ceaucescu after being shot by a firing squad.

All of these photos/paintings are on wikipedia.

[iconoclast]

Accepting Wrangel as a legitimate politician instead of a crook is the mistake. Engaging Wrangel on important matters really should be about how long Wrangel should be in jail.

[Gumbyblue]

Toads...

One problem. The Feds have placed a burdensome tax to prevent expatriation from occurring, it passed last year.

For everyone else, read your history. The most interesting thing about American history is the number of times the citizens have said enough is enough. The Regulator movement, the Boston Tea Party, the Revolution proper, The Wataugua Association, The Texas Revolution, The War Between the States all start when government fails to fulfill its obligation to the people it has been assigned to serve. Not a single one of these events can be boiled to a single event, but to a list of grievances that caused the populous at large to stand up and say enough is enough. In some cases the aggrieved failed in others they were successful, but the point is America is made up of people that actually give a damn whether they are herded like sheep. All it takes is a catalyst... and unless DC starts paying attention, I wouldn't be surprised if it the whole Tea party Movement becomes more than a bunch of disgruntled citizens waving signs on the highway. After all we're talking about the productive members of society leaving work to go out and protest. These guys know how to get things done.

[Toads]

"One problem. The Feds have placed a burdensome tax to prevent expatriation from occurring, it passed last year."

That is only if you have ALREADY accumulated wealth above $2 million (and still have it after the current crashes). For those who are younger and intend to accumulate wealth, expat taxes don't apply.

I no longer think Americans are proactive and aggressive enough to repeat the 18th and 19th century examples you have provided. A few hundred people showing up for tea parties in each city is not enough.

Further proof : Why is Barack Obama's approval rating still 58%? Because Americans have been dumbed down, that is why.

[BurkeanMama]

"No. They are getting attention on/from some of the Right blogosphere, but they are just our equivalent of the Cindy Sheehan/Code Pink moonbats."

The Cindy Sheehan/Code Pink moonbats are running the country right now. Oh yeah Peace Mom is still screaming because she really is just about promoting herself. But Pelosi/Reid/Obama are instituting socialism as fast as then can and appeassing every terrorist they can find. The left's protests worked.

Maybe it is time for the good guys to give it a try.

[Lily]

"The real problem is that 90-95% of black people vote Democrat."

I think the bigger problem is that about (over) 40% of voters pay little to no federal income taxes. They are divorced from the pain of paying for the programs they support.

[Lily]

"The Feds have placed a burdensome tax to prevent expatriation from occurring"

Even if I have to pay the troll - I will leave if we cannot turn this ship around. I will not pay for this debt, unprecedented levels of government and egregious redistributionist policies.

I did not vote for it. I loudly protested it. I think it is ruinous. Think, then, how unfair it is that I will be the one to pay for it.

BYW – I have already started researching new counties. Not found anything near what I would wish, but there are countries that have a more free market based approach – and MUCH less debt.

[Liberals are Weird]

"I think the bigger problem is that about (over) 40% of voters pay little to no federal income taxes. They are divorced from the pain of paying for the programs they support. "

I am not so sure. They pay sales taxes (which are a larger percentage of their income than for wealthy people). They also pay social security taxes, DMV taxes, gasoline taxes, etc.

Why are even black MIDDLE-CLASS people voting for Democrats 90-95%? Blacks will keep voting Democrat until America becomes like, well, Zimbabwe. Or South Africa. Or Liberia. Or Haiti.

Time to call a spade a spade. And if using the word 'spade' is 'racist', so be it.

[Lily]

"They pay sales taxes (which are a larger percentage of their income than for wealthy people). They also pay social security taxes, DMV taxes, gasoline taxes, etc. "

Yes, they pay SS tax, etc. But the idea of multi-trillion dollar deficits do not bother these people - they don't think they'll pay for it.

[Lily]

"I am not so sure. They pay sales taxes (which are a larger percentage of their income than for wealthy people). They also pay social security taxes, DMV taxes, gasoline taxes, etc. "

Yes, they pay SS tax, etc. But the ideal of multi-trillion dollar deficits do not bother these people - they don't think they'll pay for it.

And the politicans encourgage this thinking. Only the evil rich people will pay for it (you know the ones - the people who employ you, the people providing capital to you company, etc. Good grief - people as so dumb)

[Liberals are Weird]

"BYW – I have already started researching new counties. "

It depends what job you are in. But Dubai, Singapore, and Hong Kong all have super-low taxes (and right-wing governance). China, too, has many benefits for expats coming there, and 200,000 American and European expats already live there. Crime is low. So what if it is not a democracy? That doesn't affect your daily life if you don't do something stupid. And the Chinese leaders are more intelligent than the present American leaders anyway.

India is a democracy, has a tropical climate, and English-speaking public. If you can tough out the third-world quality of roads and electricity grid, and the two-inch insects, it can be a great place.

Australia is a Western country with good weather and slightly more to the right than the US. California climate with Texas tax rates.

[Dorthey Knight]

I am an organizer for the Shelby County Tea Party and I want to add my two cents worth. I don't think I care how much effect I will be having on the media or the government. What I care about is shouting back, loudly and clearly and persistently that I want my constitution back. I was never one to be involved in politics except to cast my vote, and now that I have been betrayed on every front I am screaming back. The government, both political parties, the media, our educational system, even in the work place my basic human rights are swept away without so much as an "excuse me".

I don’t hold out much “hope” and I don’t think “change” is going to happen, but what I do know will happen is that I will not go into the dark abyss of socialism without a scream, a fight, and a tear.

If by some small miracle there are concessions made and the right wing is satisfied I fully expect that there will be a deafening silence in these web blogs I now visit. It will not matter I will keep fighting for the full constitutional rights taken from me to be returned. I expect that if the “Right” gets elected into offices large and small in the government there will be small changes and the loss of liberty already achieved will be swept under the carpet. It will not matter I will keep fighting for the full constitutional rights taken from me to be returned.

This isn’t about whether or not someone approves of me. It’s about my rights.

[Bill]

Based on what I saw last weekend at the Fullerton Rally, I certainly wouldn't put the rally in the "last, best" category. I would say, "extremely entertaining" and "Fullerton has cheap beer." Check out this video from the event.

http://thinkfree.freedomblogging.com/2009/03/09/tax-revolt-in-fullerton/491/

[Al Reasin]

Well, I was the one at the DC Tea Party waving the Navy “Dont Tread On Me” Jack as shown on Reason TV. A SWAT supervisor and Federal cops were there watching us; as the SWAT officer told me it was SOP. And yes, we only has 300 people and no congressional visitors and it was during the lunch hour.

Now under our system of governance we use the rule of law to protest; using letters, e-mails, peaceful demonstrations to express our discontent and even being silly as the Indian garbed Bostonians were in 1773 by sending tea bags to our congressional members as a sign of protest. I expect that congressmen and women fear little to no consequences will result and are content to just wait us out and continue spending as with the 410 billion spending bill to be approved with Republican support. They live in their own cocoon and would never suspect that the American people in mass would really get off of their couches and do something. How few have picketed congressional offices or have punched a congressman in the nose, as was sometimes done in our early history outside and inside of congress, and gone to jail with a smile on their face. Once upon a time, a challenge to a duel was a consequence, as Andrew Jackson fought 13. Or tarring and feathering; I notice Senator Dodd has escaped unscathed and still heads the banking committee after all his corrupt actions.

If one remembers, the bombings used as a form of protest by the SDS Weathermen, did little to change our country in the way they wanted. However the organized violent confrontations by the unions in the early portion of the 20th century certainly did. So, I would say unless we have a Shays’ Rebellion II as in 1786, which helped launch the change from the Articles of Confederation to our present Constitution, little will change.

Even though founder Jefferson said that the tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants, who will be the first patriot to shed his or her blood for us. Shays was a known Revolutionary War hero and he was “drafted” to lead after the corrupt Massachusetts government took away the land of the common farmers; so many were directly impacted then unlike the minimum impact on our daily lives were see today from OUR corrupt government. They had, to a degree, nothing to lose, but most of us do; our founders certainly placed their lives and fortunes on the line. They certainly could have lost everything they cherished. It is said we are a violent society, but when it comes to protesting government corruption we are demonstrably less so than our European friends.

So again where is that established patriot, like Shays, who is willing to risk the charge of treason, their life, their family and fortune for real change we can believe in. I and millions of others are waiting for that person.

[yyysguy]

Cancel your print and cable subscriptions, at least until the next election. Your message WILL BE HEARD. And, you will feel so much better afterwards.

[Liberals are Weird]

"This isn’t about whether or not someone approves of me. It’s about my rights. "

That's nice. But as long as 90-95% of black people vote Democrat, your protests will have no effect. Democrats don't need your approval to stay in office. They just need to sustain 90-95% of the black vote.

Don't you know that you owe reparations for injustices done by whites to blacks? Consider this stimulus package the first installment.

[yyysguy]

I will attend a local Tea Party in the near future.

I will have a LARGE poster reading "STUPID, It's the Economy."

Attend your local and state government meetings. Protest them spending money they don't have, and tell them if they take Federal money, you will work to FIRE THEM!

[boqueronman]

Another of the static analyses resulting in "woe is me" flooding the internet. Let me just mention a few words: SocSec, Medicare/Medicaid, state and local government pensions, $70-$700 TRILLION (who the eff knows) in derivative obligations, too much credit card debt, falling home and stock asset values, and an economy shedding production and jobs. To this add a government that thinks the solution to the above is more debt and taxes. All the while not even trying to disguise the fact that they are redistributing from the producers of real wealth to rent seekers whose livelihood is gaming the system. Forget about the tea parties. This puppet show is going to last how long? No, what we are seeing is the beginning of the end of the Welfare State as a viable government model. Much water will flow under the bridge, and some of it may be shaded red, before we see what the world looks like on the other side. Good luck to you all.

[Liberals are Weird]

2008 election, popular vote :

Whites : 54% McCain/46% Obama
Blacks : 4% McCain/96% Obama

Guess what enabled Obama to win?

[David]

@LiberalsAreWeird: "If you are sending photos, skip the teabags and go straight to a painting of Marie Antoinette about 20 seconds after the guillotine has fallen. "

Uh, *NO*. This would be asking for a visit from the Secret Service. Just stick to tea bags.

[Lily]

"Australia is a Western country with good weather and slightly more to the right than the US. California climate with Texas tax rates"

I understand that Austrailia has a maximum age of 45 for immigration. My husband just passed this - but he's the one with the marketable / desirable skills. New Zealand is more lenient on this issue. I understand that New Zealand went through its own period of leftist government but currently has a more free market based government. But things can change - don't we know this all too well.

[Just starting asking real questions]

Rather than commenting on the above fruits of mindless leaders engaging in demagoguery, let me light a candle:
1. Find a few friends and start a local "let's actually do something by asking politicians real questions not just Springer-style questions about hypocrisy" group.
2. Find others to join the group.
3. Compile a list of future public events that politicians will be attending in your area.
4. Recruit one or more people to ask questions; if you can find a trial lawyer or similar that would be great.
5. Find some questions; feel free to use the one at my name's link and I'm also willing to edit questions for maximum effectiveness.
6. Get a video camera, a Youtube account, and Windows MovieMaker.
7. Go to the event and ask the question.
8. If you get a good response, upload it to Youtube and promote it via blogs, Digg, Reddit, etc.

Instead of feeling helpless - or engaging in worthless street protests - just do the above. If enough people do the above, things will get better.

[Popcorn]

To your tea party participation add an Appleseed or two. You'll find a great many like-minded folks and learn something new.

http://www.appleseedinfo.org/

[Liberals are Weird]

"1. Find a few friends and start a local "let's actually do something by asking politicians real questions not just Springer-style questions about hypocrisy" group.
2. Find others to join the group.
3. Compile a list of future public events that politicians will be attending in your area.
4. Recruit one or more people to ask questions; if you can find a trial lawyer or similar that would be great.
5. Find some questions; feel free to use the one at my name's link and I'm also willing to edit questions for maximum effectiveness.
6. Get a video camera, a Youtube account, and Windows MovieMaker.
7. Go to the event and ask the question.
8. If you get a good response, upload it to Youtube and promote it via blogs, Digg, Reddit, etc."

This sort of thing will sway thinking people. But thinking people are below critical mass, so this won't work.

90-95% of black people will still vote Democrat, no matter what. Nothing on Youtube will change this. All of your efforts will allow Obama, in 2012, to get 95% instead of 96% of the black vote that he got in 2008.

Accept this new reality, and get ready to pay the reparations that are subtly packaged in the tax increase being levied on you.

For each Zo, there are another 99 blacks who agree with Rev. Wright.

[JR Dogman]

"Until I see one I can sincerely believe in, I think the Tea Party concept may be the only potentially successful option we have left."

Yes, but without a concrete goal, the Tea Parties will go nowhere and get us nothing.

I think I have the right goal for the Tea Parties:

The object of the movement should be to force state-by-state voter referendums on whether to take "stimulus" money from the federal government, with the provision that:

* States that vote to accept the money will agree to future federal tax hikes; whereas

* States that vote to turn down the money will pass resolutions exempting themselves from such tax hikes.

Holding such referendums will bring the matter to a head: individual states vs. Washington, and will bring home to voters just what all this spending will mean for us down the line.

What do you think?

[thirteen28]

"Instead of feeling helpless - or engaging in worthless street protests - just do the above. If enough people do the above, things will get better."

While I have no problem with any of your other suggestions, I hardly think street protests are worthless. They too can shape public opinion, as was evidenced by both the protests in Vietnam and Iraq. No, the media won't cover them - at first anyway, but if they get too big to ignore, they will have too.

Furthermore, there are probably a lot of closet conservatives out there, some people who don't know it, and some who are afraid to stand up and admit it. Show them some strength in numbers and they might be more emboldened to speak out.

Furthermore, if burning up Capitol phone lines can stop amnesty on multiple occasions against majorities that were all but sure to vote for it, then it's foolhardy to think that the Tea Parties cannot have an effect as well.

These protests aren't an end in themselves, but they are a step, one of many. So while I wouldn't rip on any of your suggestions, you shouldn't rip on the Tea Party protests either. We need to everything we can.

[Jane]

"...commenting on the above fruits of mindless leaders engaging in demagoguery..."

Dude, you're an ass

[JR Dogman]

Without a specific goal or goals, the Tea Parties will have minimal effect.

[Rich]

just a note on the size of the tea parties:
“Tea Party” protests in Harrisburg, as well as Green Bay (1,200 in the cold) and Fullerton (15,000 in the warm!) Also Kansas City (where it’s become a weekly thing) and Lafayette. And Salt Lake City.
The links can be found on instapundit.

Things are growing, there is a large list of April 15th parties. Given the previous parties were usually on fairly short notice they have not done too bad. the 4/15 parties have over a month. If they end up with big numbers then people will start noticing.
As an aside sales of atlas shrugged supposedly have raised dramically, sorry can't find the link anymore. I requested the book from my libray and it was out. The libraian said they can not keep it in it is requested so much.

I think we may be seeing the start of a change and not necessarily the one that the Democrats are looking for.

[Toads]

"Without a specific goal or goals, the Tea Parties will have minimal effect."

Indeed. The anti-war protests had thousands of people, were well-funded by evil groups, and was an issue that the majority of the public was not happy about. Still, we did not withdraw from Iraq (thankfully).

The tea parties are for fun, nothing more.

[JR Dogman]

"The tea parties are for fun, nothing more."

I have a way to make change that. To make the Tea Parties about something -- and to maybe even work.

[Chairman]

Very good, Mr. Riehl. You don't liberate your country until you liberate yourself from the illusions that hold together the old order of things.

[mockmook]

The tea parties ARE ABOUT SOMETHING:

Limiting government

I think they can be the catalyst for change we can believe in :)

And, they may be our last hope.

[The same question as before]

1. The Fullerton tea party was mostly about Arnold and CA issues. It wasn't about "going Galt" etc. Don't be misled.

2. Even hundreds of thousands of people in the streets couldn't stop the Iraq war.

3. The "tea parties" aren't coming from a good place. They aren't about proper management, fiscal responsibility, or other defensible things. They're appealing to peoples' lizard brains. The subtext is "I've got mine, Jack". It's not "this is a better policy".

4. Discrediting a leader will make it much less likely that our public-facing elites will be able to defend and support that leader. For instance, few TV talking heads, columnists, etc. would have been willing to support Obama if someone had shown that he can't think things through.

[Free-range Oyster]

Yes, Dogman. Aside from it being a truism, we have also established that pretty thoroughly in this conversation and many others lately. Now, what ideas do you have to contribute on what those specific goals should be, and what are you going to do to get the movement going in that direction?

[Bob]

Unlike other countries, Americans have an escape clause. When the government no longer serves the people, We the people have the right to start over:

"...Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government,..."

The Tea Party movement is, at this point, small. Also, many folks are tired of the two existing parties, but the price of entry for a third party is currently quite high. Unless you decide not to play by their rules any more.

We have the option to declare our independence -- again. It will take some organizing, and a cadre of leadership must emerge. But (and this is important) it won't necessarily require the commitment of the entire population. Most major movements in history only require about 10% of the population to achieve enough critical mass. Note that only about 10-15% of American colonists actively agitated and eventually fought for independence; the rest were content to sit things out.

If, as many here seem to think, we can't change or otherwise have an impact on the current system, we will have to go outside the system. I think that's the key.

[Larry]

Most of the people I met at my own local Tea Party (Harrisburg, PA) had never been to a protest before. Including me, and I lived through the '60s.

Conservatives, by and large, are not natural demonstrators. We believe in doing, not feeling and yakking about ourselves. So this is an unusual phenomenon for many of us.

And that's the value of the Tea Parties: It gets you in touch with people who have had it with the Left and the sold-out Republicans as well. It does help to know you are not alone.

It's silly to argue over whether Tea Parties, or some other pet person or thing, is the "last, best hope." This is a tough country. We've survived worse than Obama in the past (remember secession?). We can get through this, too.