Seattle: Update And A Note

Michelle is blogging on the Seattle protest today. I'd like to offer a cautionary note to those who think the Center-Right has somehow arrived because of it. I believe we will, but this is only an early sign. And don't be surprised if the Left and the media find reason to ridicule it, or simply ignore it. Obama makes his intentions clear in this new WaPo puff piece.

Barack Obama senses that he's in the middle of a hurricane whose gale-force winds could blow history his way. More striking was his sense that fate has handed him opportunities few presidents ever get and that his test will be whether he makes good use of his chance to bend history at one of its "inflection points."

Don't get crazy over the man. He was duly elected and is entitled to his vision. It simply isn't one many of us share for America's future. And he does mean to significantly shape that future.

Pressure can push different ways and we need to apply some, too. But not an out of control, willy-nilly pressure fueled by anger, or not based on principle. Obama would like nothing more than for the Right to marginalize itself by looking unhinged. And the media would have no problem painting that image of us for him.

It's time to be smart. But it's also time to start thinking about acting and not simply talking. But it's only the beginning of that, not the end.

Comments

[mark l.]

the battle lines being drawn are NOT around democrat or republican.

the question that must be asked is whether socialism works. I have yet to see a model of successful socialism, where a govt is capable of paying for its expanded offerrings. The closest economic model that can be called socialism is a ponzi scheme. If that is a sound form of funding a nation's govt, those who advocate must be forced to explain. What is a level of debt, that still provides for Our Posterity? What is our responsiblity to the citizens of the country in 20, 30, 40 years?

If the protest centers around personalites, as opposed to ideology, it will collapse the moment the personalites move along. If we are protesting socialism, it will permanently establish the battlelines. Socialism will ALWAYS exist, but there must be constraints based upon a nation's ability to afford it, as opposed to borrowing on it.

[JustADude]

Right after the coronation in DC there were hundreds of thousands of pro life people at an event there. The coverage was to say the least 'sparse'.

[Lala]

Eventually socialism has to fall apart, especially if the birth rate drops.

MARCH 29, 2004
Europe's Pension Problem: Too Few Cradles, Too Few Graves

"There's more bad news on the way. On Mar. 11, Germany's lower house of Parliament passed a bill gradually cutting state pensions -- which have been rising steadily since World War II -- from 53% of average wages now to 46% by 2020. And Germany is not alone. Governments across Western Europe are racing to curb pension benefits. In Italy, the government plans to raise the minimum retirement age from 57 to 60, while France will require that civil servants put in 40 years rather than 37.5 to qualify for a full pension. The reforms are coming despite tough opposition from unions, leftist politicians, and pensioners' groups"

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/04_13/b3876165_mz035.htm

[templar knight]

The man we now have as President is a megalomaniac, and dangerous. He sees this crisis as a means to fundamentally change the US into his vision of what America should be, which is a fascist style welfare-state along the worst of the European models. We will be a third-world country within 10 years. He seems determined to bankrupt us.

[mark l.]

"The man we now have as President is a megalomaniac, and dangerous."

I fear you are giving to much credit to obama's intelligence. He is being manipulated by people who are megalomaniacs, and dangerous.

He has never had to deal with the consequneces of a State budget as an individual, and at this moment, he is still unaware and unprepared to accept that he will be held responsible. He has always found safety in numbers, and believes that he maintains that immunity. Rather than listening to his detractors and considering their grievances, he is kept in a bubble by rahm, and hears only how 'loved' he is.

I have NEVER heard obama discuss the economy outside of party talking points. He is incapable of doing so.

[KOZ]

Mark hits it dead on the money. These demonstrations that will be taking place are NOT about 0bama, it's about exposing the agenda to turn our Constitutional Republic into a socialist state.

Groups are organizing all over the country. My first meeting yesterday was 5 people. But it's a beginning, and so much better than hiding behind our computer monitors bemoaning something that we can fight for. People are angry, people are scared. A lot of them are scared of retribution should they decide to come out from behind the monitor and be counted. But, the choice is simple, we can either sit here and watch it all go away, or stand up and fight the good fight, at least give our future generations a chance, at least as good a chance as we have had.

[Sally]

Obama has a vision? Where'd you hear that?

It's amusing, this counseling to treat him with dignity and not get all unhinged. I think we've learned one thing from the last 8 years. Unhinged craziness, properly channeled, wins elections.

[mark l.]

"This IS what you guys are getting at right?"

I'll repeat an excerpt from the above post:

"the question that must be asked is whether socialism works. I have yet to see a model of successful socialism, where a govt is capable of paying for its expanded offerrings. The closest economic model that can be called socialism is a ponzi scheme. If that is a sound form of funding a nation's govt, those who advocate must be forced to explain. What is a level of debt, that still provides for Our Posterity? What is our responsiblity to the citizens of the country in 20, 30, 40 years?"

is it you contention that we can ignore the future of our country for the sake of urgency of now?
Clearly, even for you THC, there must exist some limit at which you believe debt is unstainable...
how much is it? 15, 20, 30...trillion?

what is compelling is not even the size of our debt, but the rate at which it increases-

we just hear 6 years of how much the Iraq War cost, and in his first few weeks in power, obama has spent more in one bill.

you have a pending budget shortfall of 1.2-1.8 trillion, based on likely spending increases and diminshed revenues.

there is an additional 1.5-2 trillion dollar cost on TARP II.

Obama is going to increase our national debt by 50% in one year/5 trillion.

[mark l.]

"History belies your position."
which govt/economy from history do you wish to emulate? do you have a historic example where socialism has caused a country to flourish, sustainably?

"Clearly, even for you THC, there must exist some limit at which you believe debt is unstainable [....] [H]ow much is it? 15, 20, 30...trillion?"
I really don't know. Problem is, for the past 30 or so years, GOPers have been doing EXACTLY THIS...

That's like arguing that since al-queda tortures, we can torture. I really don't remember a gop move that increased our debt by 50% in one year.

"I really don't know." but you know 'enough' to know you are right?

The point is not what we spend the money on- that is still the domain of the parties, but that the money they are spending is unsupportable by its people.

[mark l.]

THC-
if you accept this level of spending, from either party, then what else will you accept?

a nationalistic leader, who emerges from an econmically depressed country, arguing that defense spending is stimulative?

would you want to blow 5 trillion in one year on defense? if you accept it now, you are a majority away from this eventuality occuring. If govt is no longer subject to spending constraints of reason, imagine the crap we will be buying in the future.

[templar knight]

"The fix we are in is BECAUSE of unregulated and unchecked capitalism."

You're drunk. The fix we are in is all because of greedy people who wished to live above their means, bankers who went along with government mandates(hardly unregulated) requiring that loans be politically correct, the Congress(both Democrats and Republicans) supporting organizations such as Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac when they guaranteed loans that were unsupportable, and a President who supported the status quo. Not to mention greedy real estate agents, appraisers, and facilitators such as ACORN who made billions.

And history shows socialism to be a total failure wherever it has been tried. Sooner rather than later. But we don't have to worry about Obama's policies failing; they will, our worry is how much damage he will do before we stop him. As for you, I see Obama has his dick-suckers out trying to discourage the opposition. You don't have any business here, THC, you're nothing more than a left-wing whore.

[mark l.]

It no longer matters why we are here, but what we choose to do now.

This partisan dem defense-the gop did this, the gop did that- this is the justification for spending 300% of yearly federal revenue?

the lib dem rxn has been reptilian and reflexive. We need a serious plan to get out of our fix, and we have the democrats using it to fill out a X-Mas shopping list. Spending our way into prosperity is the answer?

[templar knight]

mark, when you argue with THC, you're arguing with a true believer in socialism, communism or whatever you wish to call it. You're as likely to cause the sun to come up in the West as to change the mind of this whore. He has everything invested in Obama and the success of the Left, and he will close his mind to any facts you wish to present. He is here to discourage the opposition. Hence his silly link.

It was just a few weeks and months ago that he was here complaining about the cost of the war in Iraq, yet he supports spending more on one bill than that whole war cost in the seven years it has been fought. This bill does not even include normal federal spending for a year, but is in addition to that. Unprecedented spending on a scale that will bankrupt the US in short order. And frankly, that is what these idiots on the Left intend to do, and will use it to justify a Chavez-type takeover. Some one of the idiots in the House has already introduced a bill to do away with the two-term limit on the Presidency. Sound familiar.

[Theresa]

Mark says: "I have NEVER heard obama discuss the economy outside of party talking points. He is incapable of doing so."

I say: How in the world can you say something like that about President Obama when we've just gone through the last 8 years of George W. Bush embarrassing the crap out of most Americans whenever he opened his mouth?!! I know it makes you Republicans feel superior when you fool yourselves into believing that "starstruck" dummies voted for their "Messiah" -- the GOP talking points are working overtime trying to picture Democratic voters as unsmart fan-crazed dunces. Too bad for you that SANE Americans aren't playing silly games like that. So keep sitting back on your thumbs crying about field mice,condoms, and Messiahs while the adults take charge and clean up after your sorry butts.

[Mark Turner]

"How in the world can you say something like that about President Obama..."

...maybe, because it's true? Bush may have embarrassed some of America, now Obama intends to embarrass all of it? If you were worried about our image overseas, keep worrying -- I live outside the US and most people I talk to who are aware of the "stimulus" and the first few weeks of Obama's administration in general think that we've elected another idiot.

[templar knight]

"...to picture Democratic voters as unsmart fan-crazed dunces."

Hell, lady, I couldn't have said it better myself. You must have seen that stupid cow at the Obama rally in Ft. Myers mouthing at Obama, "I love you".

[WBestPresidentEver]

Democratic voters as unsmart fan-crazed dunces
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Theresa you are forgiven as you no nothing about what you are saying. You are just like OBAMA and all his cronies.

Please go away. There are enough of your kind out there. Go group up with them.

Democratic voters ARE unmart fan'crazed dunces !!! And you are very foolish to think otherwise. DAMN!

I don't care where I go or what I am doing people are not as stupid as you are Theresa. They are looking at all this SHIT going on and are NOT happy campers at all.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
it's also time to start thinking about acting and not simply talking.
`
I am doing my part and I HOPE others will as well. America "will" come to their senses. All those folks that did not bother to vote this time around are now sorry that they did not. They just were not crazy about McCain.

[Mark Turner]

For those who are inclined to say that socialism (I take that to mean European-style democratic socialism, not the extremes of Marxism or Fascism) who provide us with better economic outcomes and direction as a country -- how about examining the rest of the world now? Is Europe prospering? How about Latin America, Japan, S. Korea, India, Australia, or Russia? And China, which has enjoyed double-digit growth for many years as the world's premier low cost manufacturing center is now barely at 5%, which massive small business failures, sharply rising unemployment, massive decreases in direct foreign investment -- and its largest export markets (US, EU, Japan) are all in severe recession. So, for those advocating socialist models -- who do you want to emulate that is decisively better than our US model?

[Mark Turner]

Also note that one of the reasons why the US gets a lot of bad press overseas -- especially lately -- is that it is the world's largest and most reliable wealth generator. Despite what academics of "decoupling" theory might want to assert, when the US goes down, it takes the rest of the world with it. People also get upset when they see the same mistakes in policy being made over and over again - regardless of what president/party is in office.

[James]

Bush made many mistakes, and I would have voted for someone else if facing a better choice. However, some of his ill repute came from his own countrymen in the press and entertainment who turned even his successes into failures. Consider the difference between Iraq under Hussein and now. Had a Democratic administration been in power, the press would have touted it as a major success. Janeane Garafalo once said people didn't protest war during Clinton's administration because "it wasn't cool."

Another factor which hurt Bush was when the war began several center left western European governments had a financial interest in the status quo.

Its true Bush deserved criticism, but our press and entertainment industry provided effective propaganda for his enemies.

[Seattle Laughing]

Quite a demonstration, wingnuts! All 20 of you, each holding two signs!

[mark l.]

christ kinda got it rolling with just 12(13) people...