Gillibrand: When Good Policy Meets Good Politics

It's worth noting that NY Governor Paterson's selection of Kirsten Gillibrand to replace Clinton in the Senate is both a selfish political move by Paterson, as well as a sound and fair choice to represent New York State in the Senate. It's impossible to see it as anything other than win win, unless you're a liberal blogger. Their basic irrelevance always shows up when elections are in mind. Obama certainly didn't go out of his way to align himself with them.

Now New York will have a Senator to represent the upstate area and presumably Paterson will have more friends in important places in his state-wide bid for re-election. Evidently Paterson, who is blind, can see the wisdom in the selection die-hard liberal partisans might not. There is nothing quite so blinding when it comes to politics than extreme ideology.

ALBANY— Gov. David A. Paterson has selected Representative Kirsten Gillibrand, a 42-year-old congresswoman from upstate who is known for bold political moves and centrist policy positions, to fill the United States Senate seat vacated by Hillary Rodham Clinton, according to a person who spoke to the governor early Friday.

Comments

[mark l.]

blue dog.

[SacTownMan]

Oh my god, not one of those moderate Democrats!

Daily Koz will be soiling themselves if she is anything right of Stuart Smiley!

[SpaceCat]

SERIOUSLY???
"Evidently Paterson, who is blind, can see the wisdom in the selection die-hard liberal partisans might not. There is nothing quite so blinding when it comes to politics than extreme ideology."

[Totally Heterosexual Conservative]

Ah, the musings of an abject loser about who is and who is not politically relevant. It's one thing to win as an alleged "blue dog" in a traditionally conservative district, but quite another thing to win as a "blue dog" in a statewide election in NY. Ms. Gillibrand has already moved leftward repsecting her public stance on gay marriage. Guess what - she's for it. Think she or Patterson will be able to run as "blue dogs" in primaries against well-funded NYC Dems, WITHOUT moving further leftward?

Get a clue.

[mark l.]

small aside:

has anyone noticed the way obama carries his head?

he looks like a pez dispenser.

[Totally Heterosexual Conservative]

SpaceCat, some people actually take Dan Riehl's political analysis seriously. I'm not lyin'.

[jharp]

"Just A Reminder, for the folks who thought that President Bush had the power to arrest anyone in the United States and detain them as "enemy combatants" without any hearing as part of his Commander-in-Chief power, that this power is now enjoyed by Barack Hussein Obama. That's right: A liberal with the middle name "Hussein" who pals around with terrorists and is adored in Paris now has all that Commander-in-Chief power. And if he decides that you're a threat to the nation, he can order you seized and locked up indefinitely. Congress can't get in B. Hussein Obama's way: As the FISA Court of Review emphasized back in 2002, Congress "could not encroach on the President’s constitutional power." And that meddling Supreme Court can't stop "The One," either. Or at least that's your view of things."

http://volokh.com/archives/archive_2009_01_18-2009_01_24.shtml#1232500639

[mark l.]

she gave birth past 40,
andrew sullivan must be pulling his beagle's testicle hair out right now.

no word yet if the gop is going to try to suggest that the child is actually from her four year old.

[mark l.]

"Just A Reminder, for the folks who thought that President Bush had the power to arrest anyone in the United States and detain them as "enemy combatants" without any hearing as part of his Commander-in-Chief power, that this power is now enjoyed by Barack Hussein Obama."

he just executed 18 people in Pakistan without a trial or hearing.

"In the first such strikes since the inauguration of President Barack Obama, suspected U.S. missile barrages today killed at least 18 people in the lawless tribal region near the Afghan border, Pakistani officials said."

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-pakistan-missiles24-2009jan24,0,4120819.story

If I had a choice of detention without trial, versus execution without trial, I'd choose the former.

[jharp]

"he just executed 18 people in Pakistan without a trial or hearing"

That's gotta give the wingnuts some serious wood.

"And if he(Hussein Obama) decides that you're a threat to the nation, he can order you seized and locked up indefinitely."

Assault rifle owners be warned. And Obama can spy on whoever he wants whenever he wants thanks to wingnuttia. He'll find you.

Kind of ironic that you've ended up bringing yourselves down.

[mark l.]

"And if he(Hussein Obama) decides that you're a threat to the nation, he can order you seized and locked up indefinitely."

I seem to have missed the case where an american citizen has been detained in such a fashion under bush.

got a goto list of detainees?

If the policy is such a tragedy, don't you think Obama would/could end it, with the stroke of a pen? He will have closed Gitmo, in a year from now, should I expect a change in the policy?

I'm also glancing at the 'refinements' to the Patriot Act, FISA produced by congress 2007, 2008. Why are the dems silent on this 'dangerous power'?

[ET]

You're right, jharp. Obama is embracing Bush's policies in a variety of areas:

(my post from an earlier thread)
This seems to be Obama's style so far. Make a show of signing bold new declarations that are, in substance, nearly identical to Bush policies and practices. You have to read the fine print.

"Close guantanamo in a year" means study this and study that, then try the prisoners in civilian court (unless they are "tough cases", in which case Bush's military tribunal structure will be used. Of course, they are all tough cases.).

"We will not torture," unless we decide we need to.

"We will stick to the military field manual," unless we decide we need to go outside it.

"We will withdraw from Iraq," according the the SOFA negotiated by Bush and the conditions on the ground.

Read the fine print. "Change we can believe in" is more like "symbolic incremental adjustments we can use to appease world opinion and the liberal base without out abandoning the Bush policies that worked so well."

[jharp]

"I seem to have missed the case where an american citizen has been detained in such a fashion under bush."

Then you haven't been paying attention. Jose Padilla.

[mark l.]

So you want Jose Padilla freed? Do you see him as a victim of the Bush admin?

"On August 16, 2007, José Padilla was found guilty, by a federal jury, of charges against him that he conspired to kill people in an overseas jihad and to fund and support overseas terrorism."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jos%C3%A9_Padilla_(prisoner)

I'm sorry it took five years to find him guilty. Now he can be detained indefinitely.

[jharp]

ET,

He's been in office for three days for christsakes.

1) Gitmo is going to be closed. As promised.
2) Troops will be withdrawn from Iraq. As promised.
3) We will not torture. As promised.

Obama is rejecting Bush policies. How many executive orders has in signed in the first three days refuting Bush policy.

Stem cell research. Funding of abortions outside the U.S. are two.

Those were the no brainers. Be patient. Many more to follow.

[mark l.]

FDR detained 100k Japanese Americans, without trial, but he is still cool with you, jharp?

[jharp]

"So you want Jose Padilla freed?"

No.

"Do you see him as a victim of the Bush admin?"

I see him as an American citizen who was denied his civil rights. The right to a lawyer, the right to a speedy trial, the right to have a hearing before a judge, and who knows what else he was subjected to.

That, my friend, is unamerican and a violation of our Constitution.

[seekeronos]

I hardly think the POTUS will do anything so revolutionary as ordering the immediate registration or disarmament of the civilian population... at least in the short run.

Doing so would incite much civil disorder.

Look for more gradualism, the NRA to be bullied into shopping for a weakened version of some hyper-aggressive gun-grabbing policy, which makes the NRA "look good" for accepting a "lesser evil" of ever increasing gun controls.

http://www.constitutionparty.org/news.php?aid=841

[jharp]

FDR detained 100k Japanese Americans, without trial.

Posted by: mark l. | Friday, January 23, 2009 at 02:41 PM

And it is well known it was the wrong thing to do. Exactly how it was wrong for Bush to imprison Jose Padilla without charges.

The difference here, is leftist stand on principles and openly admit when one of their heroes is wrong. Wingnuts, on the other hand, defend their heroes at all costs, the Constitution be damned.

[mark l.]

"1) Gitmo is going to be closed. As promised.
2) Troops will be withdrawn from Iraq. As promised.
3) We will not torture. As promised."

1) in a year.
2) a withdrawal plan was already in his lap, from the previous admin.
3) Consider the case of the Pakistan bombing...pretend you are a low level guy with AQ, and your family is in the house that just got bombed. After the dust settles, you realize you have no leg or arm and you are going to bleed out. You look across the room and see 10 piles of you children, when before the bombing, you had only 2 kids...

I'd rather be waterboarded.

You have this idyllic belief that war and torture are seperate, but they are inextricably the same.

[jharp]

"I hardly think the POTUS will do anything so revolutionary as ordering the immediate registration or disarmament of the civilian population... at least in the short run."

They don't have to. The power rests with Hussein Obama now. Thanks to George Bush and the GOP.

[jharp]

"You have this idyllic belief that war and torture are seperate, but they are inextricably the same."

And you're a knucklehead if you don't know the difference.

[mark l.]

"FDR detained 100k Japanese Americans, without trial.

Posted by: mark l. | Friday, January 23, 2009 at 02:41 PM

And it is well known it was the wrong thing to do. Exactly how it was wrong for Bush to imprison Jose Padilla without charges."

are you telling me that 100k japanese americans from the 1940's are the equivalent of jose padilla, a convicted terrorist?

jose padilla=100k japanese americans?

[mark l.]

"Assault rifle owners be warned. And Obama can spy on whoever he wants whenever he wants thanks to wingnuttia. He'll find you."
-jharp.

Waco turned out well for Clinton. Obama should go get some.

[Anon]

I can't agree that capturing Padilla in Chicago and then trying to claim O'Hare was "international" territory or that holding the guy, an American citizen, without access to a lawyer for several years is anything but a travesy. We treat serial killers, cop killers and child rapists better than that.

It isn't an either/or situation. We don't have to let Padilla go, throw roses at his feet or love terrorists to believe that the government should not be able to detain an American citizen, no matter what he is accused of doing, without following the law.

There are plenty of things that could have been done with Padilla that would have been 100% in keeping with the law and constitution.

[ET]

jharp, read the fine print.

We will may close guantanamo, but we will not try those assholes in civilian court. They will be tried by military tribunals and incarcerated for life. No substantive difference. I hope you get a handful of them in your local federal prison.

Troops will be withdrwn from Iraq, but not as promised. Obama promised a total withdrawl within 16 months. The withdrawl won't be total and it won't be in 16 months. You got played.

"We will not torture. As promised". Unless we decide we need to. Again, no substantive change from Bush policy.

I understand your intellectual capacity is limited to bumper sticker slogans and talking points, but try something new. READ THE FINE PRINT.

Stem cell research and abortion funding are also symbolic gestures. I certainly agree that total disregard for the lives of the unborn is a shift from Bush policy and reflects the left's total moral decrepitude (look it up).

[mark l.]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_One_of_the_United_States_Constitution#Section_9:_Limits_on_Congress

"The privilege of the writ of habeas corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in cases of rebellion or invasion the public safety may require it."

funny that this would be in the constitution. Clearly not an inalienable.

You could argue that the right to determine such matters rests with Congress, as the Supreme Court has, but given their silence on the matter in 2007, 2008, can you really complain?

[jharp]

Waco turned out well for Clinton. Obama should go get some.

Posted by: mark l. | Friday, January 23, 2009 at 02:58 PM

And it turned out even better for David Koresch and his followers.

[jharp]

"Stem cell research and abortion funding are also symbolic gestures."

Glad to see you finally admit that. Symbolic for the wingnuts to lure the Bible freaks into voting against their own best interest.

Lefties care about the issues because it's real medicine and a very real issue for womens rights.

[TheSpartan]

Waco turned out well for Clinton. Obama should go get some.

Posted by: mark l. | Friday, January 23, 2009 at 02:58 PM

It turned out better for Clinton than it did for Koresh.

[jharp]

"We will may close guantanamo, but we will not try those assholes in civilian court. They will be tried by military tribunals and incarcerated for life. No substantive difference. I hope you get a handful of them in your local federal prison."

We will close Gitmo. They will get trials, albeit different than George Bush had in mind. (I assume you heard). And there is a huge difference. And will be in prison if they are found guilty.

I I couldn't care less if they are put in my local federal prison. In case you weren't aware many of them are in federal prisons now. (world trade center bombers)

Yeah, I couldn't be happier with President Obama. Approval ratings in the 80's. Even in Texas in the 60's.

Coming through exactly as promised. And I can't wait until his health care reform becomes law.

You, ET, are the one who was played. Played like a fiddle by George W. Bush.

[mark l.]

"It turned out better for Clinton than it did for Koresh."

touche'.

[mark l.]

"And will be in prison if they are found guilty."

and if found not guilty?

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2008662420_apmlyemenalqaida.html

"Report: Ex-Gitmo detainee joins al-Qaida in Yemen"

I'm imagining a former detainee, coming to the US, and opening fire on a crowd. Miraculously, he is taken alive. He tells the public, this is my revenge for gitmo.

Two schools of thought:
This guy should never have been let go.

or the jharp/obama camp:
Look what we did to this poor man. We had this coming. It's our fault.

While this might provoke an internal weighting in an individual, where both arguments can compete, you only get one vote at the ballot, which you may not splice as neatly. the sooner Obama cuts them lose the better. I won't have to wait til 2012 to expres, the american people might get their shot at providing their disdain by 2010.

After 9/11 bush could not afford another mistake.
After cleaning out gitmo, neither will Obama.

The practicality of releasing Pakistani, Yemeni, and Afghani to those countries, where the prisons are porous for well connected AQ members, is a recipe for doom. Yes, in many cases, these people were captured on a battlefield, and have committed no other crime. IF they don't escape in the first few months, they'll be freed in the next couple of years.

trying to discern which one will become the next mohammed atta...good luck with that.

[ET]

--Yeah, I couldn't be happier with President Obama

Hey harpo, I'm happy so far too! We get to torture when we really need to, we get to try the gitmo detainees by military tribunal if we want to (read the fine print) and we will have troops in Iraq as long as it takes to maintain stability.

Oh, and tax cuts for everybody! Barry Goldwater Obama is my man!

[SacTownMan]

"The practicality of releasing Pakistani, Yemeni, and Afghani to those countries, where the prisons are porous for well connected AQ members, is a recipe for doom. Yes, in many cases, these people were captured on a battlefield, and have committed no other crime. IF they don't escape in the first few months, they'll be freed in the next couple of years."

Hey Mark do you mean like this former "detainee",

http://www.comcast.net/articles/news-general/20090123/Guantanamo.Al.Qaida/

More than 100 of those guys in GITMO are from Yemen, Bin Laden's birthplace! Just let em go so they can kill Americans again! Great plan President Bozzo!

[WAHOO WILLIE]

Well, the new senator from NY does not appear to be too liberal........

[Lala (shill for Dan)]

Willie, maybe,
She's endorsed by the NRA, pro-choice, and voted against the bail-out because she wanted the govt to control the banks. I don't know yet if the above are true or just rumor.

Carolyn McCarthy (husband killed on the train by gunman) is really angry that she wasn't picked. Very anti-gun.

Carolyn Maloney whose district is on the Upper East Side, is very angry because she wanted the job. Maloney is a force for having criminals DNA on file.

It was funny to see Al D'Amato standing with Paterson when he made the announcement.

[Todd]

Yay. A centrist !!! Maybe there's hope after all.

[North Dallas Thirty]

Lefties care about the issues because it's real medicine and a very real issue for womens rights.

LOL....actually, given that stem cell use involves the dissection and destruction of another human life, it shows you nicely the nihilism and hate that is at the core of every liberal. No doubt jharp also supports harvesting organs from other human beings because it's "real medicine".

Liberals believe that other humans should be sacrificed so they can live. This suits their abortion beliefs, in which they argue that a woman should kill her baby because it's "inconvenient" to her. This suits their welfare beliefs, in which they argue that productive working people should be sacrificed to pay for people like jharp who refuse to work and demand that those who do be punished.

[mark l.]

"More than 100 of those guys in GITMO are from Yemen, Bin Laden's birthplace! Just let em go so they can kill Americans again! Great plan President Bozzo!"

I wonder what 'Willie Horton' would translate to in Farsi.

I'm getting this image of the detainees getting loaded on a large boat that never docks.

[Fred Beloit]

Forcing religious tax payers to pay for abortions and pro abortion advertising is not a women's rights issue. It is a religious issue. Obama took an oath to support and defend the Constitution a few days ago. The Constitution (Amendment 1) says: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."

The Congress has taken sides in allowing tax revenues to support abortions and abortion advertising. This seems clearly to violate the Constitution. What is Obama going to do about it? He has just chosen to nullify Bush's action to defend the Constitution in this matter. Congratulations on your first violation of the Constitution, Mr. President, may it be your last.
(Truth in opining: I am not a religious person, just one who supports the Constitution in my own small way.)

[Lala (shill for Dan)]

When Catholic hospitals are faced with being forced to do abortions they will close and we will have 400 less hospitals.

[Todd]

Forcing religious tax payers to pay for abortions and pro abortion advertising is not a women's rights issue. It is a religious issue. Obama took an oath to support and defend the Constitution a few days ago. The Constitution (Amendment 1) says: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."

The Congress has taken sides in allowing tax revenues to support abortions and abortion advertising. This seems clearly to violate the Constitution. What is Obama going to do about it? He has just chosen to nullify Bush's action to defend the Constitution in this matter. Congratulations on your first violation of the Constitution, Mr. President, may it be your last.
(Truth in opining: I am not a religious person, just one who supports the Constitution in my own small way.)

Posted by: Fred Beloit | Saturday, January 24, 2009 at 10:54 AM
-------------------
Well, Fred, the flip side of that is that religious institutions are completely exempt from paying property taxes to help pay for town services. Non-religious people in this country are therefore subsidizing those religious institutions, perhaps to $100 billion a year. Some houses of worship exist on extremely expensive land where the property taxes would be very high otherwise, St. Patrick's Cathedral in NYC being the best example.

[WAHOO WILLIE]

"Bible freaks into voting against their own best interest..."

How is paying for other people's (even overseas) abortions in the best interest of anyone?

[mark l.]

"When Catholic hospitals..."

not certain about the numbers, but I think they represent roughly 18% of our total hospital system.