If You Thought The Big 3 Were Bad Before ...

The New York Times brings us up to date on a potential bailout for the Big Three. In a word ... frightening. For political cover, Congress is talking like they actually know how to run a business. How's that Social Security Trust Fund doing under their control? And don't forget the underfunded pension plans. In fact, if our Federal and many state governments were in front of Congress as businesses looking for a bailout, no debate would be required. They'd never qualify for help and only their ability to extract dollars from people's pockets by decree is keeping them afloat as it is. But suddenly they know something about good management? Please!

WASHINGTON — Congressional Democrats were drafting legislation Sunday for tight government control of the crippled American auto industry, including the possible creation of an oversight board made up of five cabinet secretaries and the head of the Environmental Protection Agency and led by an independent chairman or “car czar.”

We don't need the head of the Environmental Protection Agency and any number of other government bureaucrats who want to stick their nose in running the American auto industry. Some of the pondered proposals are simply insane.

Democrats were weighing counterproposals calling for the creation of a full oversight board, made up of the secretaries of commerce, energy, labor, transportation and of the Treasury, and the administrator of the Environmental Protection Agency.

And that doesn't even begin to touch on the complexity of such bad ideas. What about foreign car makers? They would have to compete with a government run entity? The incentive for the government to pass legislation mandating them to change their vehicles for American markets to equal what they would be mandating for the Big 3 American manufacturers would be great. And we wouldn't have anything resembling a free market when it came to buying a car in America.

They are taking a bad idea - the bailout - and making it worse. The American people really need to stand up against this nonsense. If Congress wants to help the car makers - they should do it and answer to the voters for it next election. But a de facto nationalizing of the industry is just flat out wrong.

We need less, not more government interference in our personal and professional lives.

Comments

[Anon]

I wish you would stop posting this stupid anecdote, if it is true that the company stopped paying insurance payments that they were taking out of employees pay then that was ILLEGAL, and so is in no way illustrative of anything having to do with the way American health care works.

I have never heard of ANYONE being given less than 30 days notice that their health care was to be terminated and I have also never heard of anyone who was employed full time who was not eligible for Cobra, which is very cheap and goes for 18 months.

So, again, this case is not typical or even close.

[jharp]

"if it is true that the company stopped paying insurance payments that they were taking out of employees pay then that was ILLEGAL"

And so what if it was illegal? The fact is the mother to be was so worried about the financial aspects of the birth that she went and had labor induced. And the doctor agreed. In spite of the fact that it put Mom and baby at additional risk.

"and so is in no way illustrative of anything having to do with the way American health care works."

It is exactly illustrative of the way the American health care system works.

"I have never heard of ANYONE being given less than 30 days notice that their health care was to be terminated"

You have now.

"and I have also never heard of anyone who was employed full time who was not eligible for Cobra"

Cobra doesn't apply when there no longer is a plan available.

"which is very cheap and goes for 18 months."

Wrong. It might or might not be cheap. It depends on what your plan is.

"So, again, this case is not typical or even close."

It is very typical. People are caught between insurers all the time.

Why do you refuse to admit we need big changes?

You'd rather listen to the Limbo propaganda. Single payer = bad, and then find reasons to justify your position.

You are an ignorant, hard headed, backwards thinking, right wing hack.

[Anon]

Okay, I am done with you.

You are everything that is wrong with this country.

I have agreed that the US healthcare system is expensive, inefficent and needs to be changed if it is to be cheaper and better.

But, this isn't good enough for you.

If I don't agree with whatever baseless drivel, propaganda crap that you want to post like this one situation is indicative of the whole system, I'm "ignorant, backwards thinking and a hack'

OMG you are priceless and tragic. YOU are the one who doesn't know squat about how US healthcare is delivered. YOU are the one that has failed to answer any questions about how all these savings are going to happen or what is going to happen to all the workers currently in the system. YOU don't even know anything about your hero's plans.

You are the one who is ignorant, backwards and a hack.

All you do is recite stock phrases and lines that you don't even know the meaning of, source of or relevance.

The case you cite is about as illustrative of healthcare system as an 8 year old shooting his father is illustrative of the criminal jsutice system. But YOU are too STUPID to comprehend it.

[jharp]

"Okay, I am done with you."

That's fine. Peace to you and your family.

I will continue to try to add to everyone's knowledge of our health care system through this board. And call someone out when they post something inaccurate.

I figure the more everyone knows the better off we'll be.

[mark l.]

"baseless drivel, propaganda crap",
"priceless and tragic",
"doesn't know squat about how US healthcare is delivered",
"All you do is recite stock phrases and lines that you don't even know the meaning of, source of or relevance"

wish i could help, jharp, but dude has got you covered.

"I figure the more everyone knows the better off we'll be."
(I figure the more everyone believes what I believe, without question, the better off we'll be.)

[jharp]

Yeah right, mark l. You have earned so much credibility here as a result of your polling analysis debacle. Does it bother you in the least being wrong every single time. Not even being right once.

You are a joke.

[mark l.]

jharp,

rational people are skeptics, about everything.

You have the unique ability to seperate you skepticism along by political affiliation. It's rather pathetic.

[jharp]

"rational people are skeptics, about everything."

Good one. We agree.

And leaders and winners are willing to try something different.

You. Being a loser. Refuse to. And mislead in the process.

[mark l.]

jharp-

you are the liberal equivalent of Kirk Cameron.

[jharp]

Don't know of Kirk Cameron.

You are a message board hack version of William Kristol.

Wrong on everything.

[mark l.]

jharp-

guess which country has the greatest success in treating cancer?

the one that finished 29th in health care, by the gospel of the UN.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1560849/UK-cancer-survival-rate-lowest-in-Europe.html

your chance of cancer survival is 50% greater comparing US to UK rates...
among males:
66%US, 45% UK.

How bout France? the greatest healthcare in the world?
the don't even have figures to provide, or chose not to provide their numbers.

[WBestPresidentEver]

"We don't need the head of the Environmental Protection Agency and any number of other government bureaucrats who want to stick their nose in running the American auto industry. Some of the pondered proposals are simply insane."

You are damn right it is insane. I was listening to the stupid talking heads today
and they were even saying what kind of cars need to go and what kind they should start building and such. Geez, why don't these so called ignorant talking heads just pool their money together an buy out all the auto makers and then they can take the blame for their ignorance when they fail even worse.
You don't tell a company what they should build and not build. Is this country gone mad ? Sounds like Al Gore WHORE is in on this with his green insane madness !

[jharp]

mark l,

Seriously, are you that much of a mental midget to not see there is not only no evidence to support the chart on the link you provided, there is not even an attempt to cite any.

Good friggin grief. I feel dumber for ever having visited this blog.

[jharp]

"We don't need the head of the Environmental Protection Agency and any number of other government bureaucrats who want to stick their nose in running the American auto industry. Some of the pondered proposals are simply insane."

"they were even saying what kind of cars need to go"

Right on!

Who do they think they are?

Bring back the Pinto!

[WBestPresidentEver]

Right on!

Who do they think they are?

Bring back the Pinto!

Posted by: jharp | Tuesday, December 09, 2008 at 02:36 AM

----------------------------
up yours a-hole.

[old trooper]

Welcome to the jharp rant site.
Don't get snippy with him or he will call you bad names.

[templar knight]

This has turned into jharp's blog. He hijacks every thread. I have no doubt he is a paid blogger on the payroll of the Democratics. I ignore him myself, but others on this blog continue to engage him. Why, I don't know.

But I find myself coming here less and less, and am looking for a new home. If I wanted to listen to jharp's shit I would go to Kos or Atrios.

[mark l.]

"Seriously, are you that much of a mental midget to not see there is not only no evidence to support the chart on the link you provided, there is not even an attempt to cite any."

link was provided:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1560849/UK-cancer-survival-rate-lowest-in-Europe.html

l'll repeat:

your chance of cancer survival is 50% greater comparing US to UK rates...
among males:
66%US, 45% UK.

I have to go for now, but I will provide links of UK citizens seeking cacner treatment in the US.

ahhh... the wonders of NHS.

[mark l.]

"Britain was the exception. Despite spending up to £1,500 on health per person per year, it recorded similar survival rates for Hodgkin's disease and lung cancer as Poland, which spends a third of that amount."

Does this make sense to you jharp?

[Philip McDaniel]

“The vast majority of those tracks won't support high-speed rail and are shared with slow freight traffic. “
You are quite right, WPE. I don’t know about the rest of the rail service but along the eastern corridor from Florida to New York the rails are so bad that trains have to run at reduced speeds when the ambient temperatures are either high or low. The rails can either spread under heat or break from brittleness because of the cold. A massive infusion of funds into the existing rail service might be an economically sound investment for the US.

[Philip McDaniel]

“I will continue to try to add to (insert current topic of debate here) through this board. And call someone out when they post something (insert 'that I didn’t pontificate on and that anyone disagrees with me on').
I figure the more everyone (insert 'agrees with me') the better off we'll be.”

Actually, Narcissus – aka jharp, it’s YOU that is “an ignorant, hard headed, backwards thinking, right wing hack,” although I would have changed right wing hack to ‘left wing hick’, which is what you really are. And a pompous one at that. Just a suggestion, but you really need to put down your mirror, clean yourself up and get out in the fresh air.

[Lala]

Staying with the subject of the big three I found this today

LIFE AFTER 'DOOM'
DON'T BELIEVE THE BIG THREE

MILWAUKEE

SPOT us $34 billion, say the Detroit carmakers, or it's doom, doom for all. They fling threatening figures like "3 million unemployed." Suppliers, said an industry CEO last week, may "implode."

Implosion? Doom? Been there, at least in Kenosha, Wis., a place with a useful lesson.

The industrial city had a pair of car plants for decades, making Ramblers, Pacers and, finally, Chryslers until 1988, when much of it shut down and 5,400 people lost their jobs. That's a lot in a city of, then, 80,000 people.

What did Kenoshans do? They became drug pushers. Well, pharmaceutical pushers: The largest employer of Kenoshans, about 2,000 of them, is Abbott Labs, just over the Illinois line.

more at http://www.nypost.com/seven/12092008/postopinion/opedcolumnists/life_after_doom_143330.htm

[Philip McDaniel]

--SPOT us $34 billion, say the Detroit carmakers, or it's doom, doom for all. They fling threatening figures like "3 million unemployed." Suppliers, said an industry CEO last week, may "implode."—
Lala, is it possible they are really afraid of being taken over by another firm? Is that possible while undergoing bankruptcy reorganization? Frankly, I don’t know why some firm hasn’t tried to raid them even now, pick up the pieces and discard the rest, but then, there may really be no value there.

[Lala]

I worked for an airline that went out of business. It wasn't bought because it owed so much money to the pension fund. The IRS kept allowing them to either borrow against the pension fund or to not fund it at all. It wasn't worth it for any entity to take on that debt, it was enormous. I collect my pension from the PBGC.

[Philip McDaniel]

"It wasn't worth it for any entity to take on that debt, it was enormous."

Hmm...That might explain a few things, like why the big 3 cannot get funding elsewhere. They may be in worse shape than anyone knows…well anyone except the inner circle and all their congressional buddies.

[WBestPresidentEver]

well anyone except the inner circle and all their congressional buddies.

Posted by: Philip McDaniel | Tuesday, December 09, 2008 at 02:09 PM
_____________________
I second that !! Amen