How Many "Hopeful" Workers Does It Take To Change A Lightbulb?

Ack!! Sorry, but when someone launches a job creation program and it's government-centric, I'm unimpressed. Seems we're going to find our way out of the economic darkness by changing lightbulbs. And at least Sally and Johnny will be sitting in energy efficient schools as they learn how not to compete in the private sector. No mention of Math and Science, but at least they'll be able to watch YouTube videos with High Speed access.

—SCHOOLS: “[M]y economic recovery plan will launch the most sweeping effort to modernize and upgrade school buildings that this country has ever seen. We will repair broken schools, make them energy-efficient, and put new computers in our classrooms. Because to help our children compete in a 21st century economy, we need to send them to 21st century schools.”

—ENERGY: “[W]e will launch a massive effort to make public buildings more energy-efficient. Our government now pays the highest energy bill in the world. We need to change that. We need to upgrade our federal buildings by replacing old heating systems and installing efficient light bulbs. That won’t just save you, the American taxpayer, billions of dollars each year. It will put people back to work.”

Yes, make the building pretty and suddenly it'll be wonderful schools for all. I'm starting to think this guy really is fixated on image, as opposed to substance. And, as usual, we'll get to pay for ten guys, eight of them standing around holding flags, while two eventually start to work fixing potholes. It isn't that we don't need to focus on infrastructure, but how about dealing with the inefficient way we approach it if you want to bring some change?

—ROADS AND BRIDGES: “[W]e will create millions of jobs by making the single largest new investment in our national infrastructure since the creation of the federal highway system in the 1950s. We’ll invest your precious tax dollars in new and smarter ways, and we’ll set a simple rule – use it or lose it. If a state doesn’t act quickly to invest in roads and bridges in their communities, they’ll lose the money.”

Liberal government 2.0: Same old, same old, but we "hope" you'll buy that it's "change." 

Comments

[Ann Althouse]

Folks, I am hearing people say stuff like this: "You have to question yourself though as to WHY BO has spent over $500,000 dollars to dismiss a document that he could have paid $12 to end all of this speculation?"

Can someone/anyone refer me to a source for the claim that Obama has spent so much money towards this end? I've heard it repeated all over the place but so far I haven't seen a source and don't really know how the $500k was spent or why.

Thanks!

[WAHOO WILLIE]

Dan, Dan, Dan! Just stop it.....This time it is going to work! Where is your hope man?

[Lala]

The only reference to the $500,000 that I've found is that, it is said, Obama spent it on 3 law FIRMS to fight the Berg suit.

[Karen]

This guy is on my last nerve already.

[jharp]

So I guess you are happy with the way things are now and think Obama should just sit on his hands?

[Lala]

The Mafia must be salivating over all that cement they can sell. And New York has a prevailing wage law so this should be fun.

"Prevailing wage law requires that laborers be paid a minimum hourly rate on public works projects. The rate, which is set by the labor department, generally corresponds to local union wages.

A boilermaker working on a public construction project in New York City, for instance, must be paid at least $44.09 an hour, according to the prevailing wage schedule posted on the labor department's Web site. The rate increases to $176.36 an hour � four times the regular wage � for work done on Labor Day, not including supplemental benefits."

[PA]

Kids would learn more if they took the computers OUT of the classrooms and forced teachers to teach. Computers are a distraction.

[WAHOO WILLIE]

"Obama should just sit on his hands?"

Now you're just being silly. Of course we (see it aint just da prez) need to roll up our sleeves and get busy. However, if we're going to campaign on "change" and a new direction and alll that balderdash, just perhaps we should come up with NEW ideas.......or at the very least re-work the "old,failed policies" so that they dont sound so "great society" and "new deal". Some of those things were good ideas and with some tweaking could be useful. One of the few things government should actually do is fix roads and bridges. Then you have NC where we pay a higher fuel tax than all four of our neighbors...yet the roads grow crappier by the week. Why dat? Glad you asked. The Sleazy administration has robbed the highway fund for years for such worthwhile projects as a teapot museum among others....and of course planting flowers beside the roads. Your schools??? They aren't falling apart, they're being torn down by students who have no respect for anything. Geeze, one could go on and on but you would never be convinced.

[Anon]

The scary thing about Obama is that he continues to talk in glib generalities with no apparent regard to history or economics.

While I absolutely agree that US infrastructure is in terrible shape and needs to be upgraded, how exaclty are short term construction jobs going to save the economy?? It isn't logical. The only way infrastructure creation is going to save the economy is if it goes on forever and the jobs are open to everyone, even those who aren't qualified for construction. More pipe dreams.

Use it or lose it? That has been done before and it always results in crazy spending on crap without proper planning so that the money isn't "lost". More stupidity.

Obama has no clue what he is doing and the fact that he's using almost exclusively Clinton retreads should make it crystal clear that he doesn't have any new ideas.

I suppose it bodes well for the fact that he's not a crazy closet socialist, just the typical tax and spend liberal Democrawt of the last 4 decades...exactly the last thing this country needs. I would almost rather he was a radical who would at least try something NEW instead of the same old stale FDR great society stuff.

[jharp]

Watch and participate in the health care reforms.

To me big stuff. Always have felt American health care costs have been crippling to our economy.

Obama is formulating a plan, has good people in place, and somethings gonna happen.

[jharp]

Spending the day researching my liberal roots.

Just found out I had a liberal ancestor who fought in the Revolutionary War.

Does anyone know of any good sites for rosters of soldiers who fought?

Thanks in advance.

[WAHOO WILLIE]

YES "free health care foir eddy buddy" As long as I can keep the health insurance I have or get a better one I dont care what they do for da sheeples.

harpie you start with knowing what state your ancestor was from then it'd be quickest to go to the SAR or DAR site for that state. I had an Gx4 grandpa who was killed at Kings Mountain.....family tradition says by his loyalist brother.....wtf knows who fires a shot.

[jharp]

YES "free health care foir eddy buddy"

Willie,

You know that I know that nothing is free. And don't you think America's health care system should be what is best for us as a country?

Not just what is best for Willie.

Thanks for the tip. I have already found he was in Spencers Additional Continental Regiment from New Jersey and fought? or was at? Valley Forge and Monmouth.

[jharp]

"I had an Gx4 grandpa who was killed at Kings Mountain.....family tradition says by his loyalist brother....."

Too bad you didn't take after your liberal Gx4 Grandpa and instead inherited his conservative loyalist brother's politics.

[WAHOO WILLIE]

Harpie there's a bunch of resources from rosters, pension records of states and of course the sons of the revolution and daughters of the revolution. I dont know what you can get from the national archives as far back as the rev war but it's worth a try since you have a name and regiment. Oh! try the national park service sites for Valley Forge maybe that'll take you somewhere.

Oh and gramps came down the wagon road from Pa, through the wilderness and pioneered in NC and Tenn, they were tough, self reliant people who built towns and businesses and pretty much did not want government in their affairs.......that's hardly like a 'modern' day liberal.

[jharp]

My relatives moved into Ohio in the early 1800's from Virginia. The old guy died in Ohio in 1828.

"were tough, self reliant people... ...pretty much did not want government in their affairs.......that's hardly like a 'modern' day liberal"

Oh, but they were liberal in the sense they didn't want to be ruled by King George.

The conservatives of that era did.

And by the way I'm tough and self reliant. And don't want the government in my affairs. I've been in business for myself for 25 years and have never taken a dime in help. And I'm liberal.

[WAHOO WILLIE]

This seems to be what you're trying to say and it does not compare well with the modern definition

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_liberalism

[torabora]

jharp....spending tax dollars will not fix this mess. When business pays taxes that means they are profitable and ...well...paying taxes. Profitable business employs what were at some point the unemployed.

What is needed is jobs creation...not make work with that vanishing tax dollar.

To get jobs creation you have to have incentives ...phase out the capital gains tax the longer an equity is held. Say after 5 years NO capital gains tax. Allow lower income to invest with no capital gains tax. Allow companies to get a tax break for employment that LASTS say 5 years or more. Make bonus/pay dependent on sales payable over the life of a loan...30 year loan means 30 year amortization of points. We need reciprocal trade agreements...FAIR trade, NOT free trade. We need tort reform and prison reform ...You get the idea.

Government is there only to keep the game going and keep it fair. Right now government exists to enable frauds to be elected.

[jharp]

"jharp....spending tax dollars will not fix this mess."

Most economists disagree. I think they are right.

"Government is there only... ..and keep it fair."

100% agree. And they have done a super shitty job. Let's hope Obama and the democrats come through. I understand you aren't happy about the dems being in power but. The GOP f~cked things up so bad that they deserved to be tossed out. (sorry for the language)

[MarkJ]

jharp,

"Most economists disagree. I think they are right."

Who is "most economists?" You...and who else in your bedroom?

"If you laid all the economists in the world end to end...they'd point in all directions." (John F. Kennedy, 1962).

[Mark Turner]

jharp:

I am a bit sceptical about any degree of state-subsidized healthcare. Over the past 6 years, I have lived in Australia and Singapore, both of which have such systems, and I'm not terribly convinced that they are better alternatives. In US dollar terms, the price of healthcare is cheaper than the US, but not when viewed in local currency terms. Doctors still order lots of expensive tests, not because of insurance reimbursements, but because of government subsidies. Also, while the healthcare systems in Singapore and Australia are adequate for routine medical exams, dental care, eye care, etc., I wouldn't necessarily trust them for complicated or life-threatening conditions. Doctors also vary in the extreme with regard to their attitude toward treatment; some are aggressive and seem to advocate hospital admissions and ancillary testing for seemingly minor health issues, others are flippant and cursory in their examinations, merely prescribing some vague medication. European healthcare systems (including UK) closely resemble this structure as well.

[jharp]

Here's all of your goddam health care in America. And you assholes have reluctance to change it.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/07/us/07uninsured.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1&hp

"In a letter dated Oct. 3, Archway told workers that their jobs would be eliminated, and their insurance terminated on Oct. 6, because of “unforeseeable business circumstances.” The company, owned by a private equity firm based in Greenwich, Conn., filed a petition for relief under Chapter 11 of the Bankruptcy Code."

"The crisis is on display here. Starla D. Darling, 27, was pregnant when she learned that her insurance coverage was about to end. She rushed to the hospital, took a medication to induce labor and then had an emergency Caesarean section, in the hope that her Blue Cross and Blue Shield plan would pay for the delivery."

Ms. Darling, who was pregnant when her insurance ran out, worked at Archway for eight years, and her father, Franklin J. Phillips, worked there for 24 years.

“When I heard that I was losing my insurance,” she said, “I was scared. I remember that the bill for my son’s delivery in 2005 was about $9,000, and I knew I would never be able to pay that by myself.”

So Ms. Darling asked her midwife to induce labor two days before her health insurance expired.

“I was determined that we were getting this baby out, and it was going to be paid for,” said Ms. Darling, who was interviewed at her home here as she cradled the infant in her arms.

As it turned out, the insurance company denied her claim, leaving Ms. Darling with more than $17,000 in medical bills.

In some cases, people who are laid off can maintain their group health benefits under a federal law, the Consolidated Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1986, known as Cobra. But that is not an option for former Archway employees because their group health plan no longer exists.

[jharp]

"In US dollar terms, the price of healthcare is cheaper than the US, but not when viewed in local currency terms."

What in the hell are you talking about. Both Singapore and Australia spend considerably less than the U.S. And what makes the difference what currency you measure it in? Good grief.

"I wouldn't necessarily trust them for complicated or life-threatening conditions."

I would. They deliver as good of care as we get in the U.S. For about half the cost.

[Mark Turner]

jharp:

While the example you provide is an unfortunate one, state-sponsored healthcare will not eliminate large medical bills -- although it may result in lower bills for services rendered in the most dire cases. Generally, in a state-subsidized scenario, in cases where hospitalization is required, one has the option of different qualities of care depending upon the cost one wants to pay. For example, the cheapest coverage might be an open ward shared with several other patients; doctors consultation fees, other therapies, meals and medications are still extra charges, though the price will generally be lower than a semi-private or private room, due to a lower quality of service/amenities provided.

[Mark Turner]

jharp:

If you are earning in Singapore Dollars for example, you might pay SGD 75 for a dental exam in Singapore (as I have done this week). This translates to about US$50; the quality is similar to the US, and the price is not appreciably cheaper in local terms, since we are earning in Singapore dollars, not US dollars.

[Mark Turner]

"They deliver as good of care as we get in the U.S. For about half the cost."

This statement is not correct with regard to cost; I agree with the first part of it in the context of routine healthcare.

[jharp]

jharp:

If you are earning in Singapore Dollars for example, you might pay SGD 75 for a dental exam in Singapore (as I have done this week). This translates to about US$50; the quality is similar to the US, and the price is not appreciably cheaper in local terms, since we are earning in Singapore dollars, not US dollars.

Posted by: Mark Turner | Saturday, December 06, 2008 at 09:16 PM

You are completely missing the point. The issue is annual health care costs, not one trip to the dentist.

I understand currency exchange rates. Pick any currency and compare per capita health care expenditures in the U.S. to the other 29 industrialized countries.

We suck. We are the most expensive by about double and no one, not one other country does it like we do.

I cannot understand how American's can be so goddam blind and stupid and ignore this. I figure it's too much Hannity, Limbo, O'Reilly.

[jharp]

"They deliver as good of care as we get in the U.S. For about half the cost."

This statement is not correct with regard to cost; I agree with the first part of it in the context of routine healthcare.

Posted by: Mark Turner | Saturday, December 06, 2008 at 09:20 PM

With all due respect you don't know your ass from first base.

http://www.kff.org/insurance/snapshot/chcm010307oth.cfm

And you and your ilk are a big part of the problem.

[UNJohn]

*Хитро щурюсь, сопоставляя факты…*

[WBestPresidentEver]

HARP...Why don't you take your liberal cussing nastly filty mouth and go some place else and show your ass. Don't do it here you scumbag. What is your address ? You need a bar of soap to clean out you nasty mouth. When you get through with it give it to another one of your liberal buddies or send it to Barney Franks. I know he needs it bad.
Liberal idiots are the main problem in this country. They approved fannie and freddie not checking peoples job status and credit ratings or citizen ship to get them into housing. Said everything was fine, no oversite needed. YEAH RIGHT.
...While regular hard working folks had to be drilled to death about thier finances and come up with all kinds of paperwork and proof to get a home loan.
If you woudl quit drinking the damn Kool aide you would know thr truth about many problems that are happening in this country today.
IT SURE AS HELL AINT BUSH'S FAULT.
You are a lunatic idiot !!

[jharp]

More on Ms. Darling and the worst health care system in the world.

http://www.mansfieldnewsjournal.com/article/20081123/NEWS01/811230315

On Oct. 4, she received a certified letter stating that, as of two days from then, she would no longer have a job or health insurance.

Darling says she asked and doctors agreed induce labor the next day, before the insurance expired Oct. 6.

After seven hours, with doctors about to send her home because the effort to induce was not taking, she began hemorrhaging.

"My placenta tore away from the wall and both the baby and I were literally inches away from death," she said. "We were rushed into emergency C-section, with both of us hanging tight to our lives."

Darling said doctors had to cut her open with no time to administer pain medications. Afterward, she learned her health insurance had already expired, despite the certified letter.

[WBestPresidentEver]

BUSH IS MY PRESIDENT ! BUSH WILL ALWAYS BE MY PRESIDENT. I LOVE PRESIDENT BUSH.
BUSH DID NOT TELL A BUNCH OF MUSLIM SCUM TO RAM AIRPLANES INTO OUT BUILDING WITH PLANES AND KILL THOUSANDS OF OUR PEOPLE.
BUSH DID NOT TELL SADDAM HUSSEIN TO INVADE KUWAIT NOR DID BUSH TELL SADDAM TO SHOOT AT OUR PLANES IN THE NO FLY ZONE FOR YEARS.
BUSH DID NOT CAUSE THE WARS IN AFGHANISTAN AND IRAQ. BUSH DID NOT TELL COMPANIES LIKE AGI, LEHMAN BROTHERS, CITI BANK AND ON AND ON TO TURN INTO CROOKS THIEFS AND LIARS AND BRING DOWN OR FINANCIAL SYSTEM ! BUSH DID NOT TELL FORD, CHYSLER, AND GM HOW TO RUN THEIR COMPANIES INTO THE GROUND.
BUSH DID NOT TELL THE CROOKS IN CONGRESS TO TAKE BRIBES FROM PEOPLE AND HIDE IT IN THIER FREEZER.
BUSH DID NOT TELL ILLEGALS TO COME INTO OUR COUNTRY AND BREAK DOWN OUR HEALTHCARE SYSTEM AND GET ON OUR WELFARE SYSTEM AND FOOD STAMPS AND TAKE OUR GOVERENMENT FOR A RIDE.
BUSH DID NOT GIVE YOU A DAMN TOOTHACHE, OR MAKE YOUR TIRE GO FLAT, OR MAKE YOU HAVE AN TRAFFIC ACCIDENT OR GET A TRAFFIC TICKET OR MAKE YOU LOSE YOUR JOB, OR MAKE YOUR WIFE LEAVE YOU OR TELL YOU TO BY DRUGS AND STAY STONED OUT OF YOUR MIND ALL THE TIME, NOR DID HE TELL YOU TO BE AN IDIOT LIKE YOU LIBERAL FOOLS ARE.
BUSH DID NOT CAUSE ALL OF THE PROBLEMS GOING ON IN THE WORLD TODAY.
PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH IS A GOOD MAN AND HAS A BIG HEART AND A LOT OF COMPASSION FOR THIS COUNTRY.
I personally don't give a damn what any of you Liberal loosers say about my President because you are all just whiners and idiots and allyou are looking for is a free handout. Get a damn job. quit your whining and bashing and trashing my Prisident. Get a damn life. QUIT DRINKING THE DAMN KOOL AIDE. PUT IT DOWN AND SLOWLY BACK AWAY. Give your brain what is left of it to get back to normal, you will be glad you did.
Anyone that voted for Barack Hussein Obama is really lacking something in your brain.

[Roy Mustang]

How many Obama workers does it take to change a lightbulb?

As many as it takes to separate the wealth from those who earned it to those who voted for Obama.

[syn]

Jharp, you appear to be operating from a place of fear and haplessness and I am quite concerned. Yes, life is often a wicked struggle against an unhappy existence however the triumph to overcome this struggle is the joy which replaces that sadness.

I often ask myself what life would I have if all my needs were provided at the moment I asked and at a cost to others; the only conclusion I come to is I think I would feel robbed of my life while robbing the life of others.

Personally I happen to love living my life providing for my own needs without government interference, this Liberty makes me free to pursue my happiness without taking from another's happiness. When I am this blessed in life I innately want to share in this pursuit by giving of my own charity directly from my heart to the heart of another. Frankly, I don't want or need the government to do my charity for me.

Why would you demand that I and others be forced by the government to rob us our opportunity to Life, Liberty and pursuit of Happiness?

Merry Christmas and Mistle-toe Kisses

[Islamollama]

"-- As many as it takes to separate the wealth from those who earned it to those who voted for Obama. --"

We actually get divided into two groups. The "Obama voters" and the "Non-Obama voters". Then the non-Obama voters are all required to hand the Obama voters $100.

Worth noting that Obama voters don't earn money. That's why Obama outraised John "Public Financing" McCain to the tune of $750 million dollars.

Worth noting, Obama received large donations from such non-workers as Bill Gates, Warren Buffet, and Google founder Larry Page. Noted welfare queens also include members of the armied forces who donated $130k.

But yes, yes. Continue with your highly entertaining claim that Barack Obama walked into a campaign financing jackpot on the backs of "non earners" while John McCain was forced to accept half his money from the generic taxpayer pool.

http://www.pollingreport.com/obama.htm

Meanwhile, Obama is experiencing a wide and comfortable approval rating from those following his transition. Only 13% disapprove of how he is handling his transition.

You guys are in such a laughably small minority, you should probably start petitioning for special recognition or grant money or something.

[Fred Beloit]

Moe, they are polling on how Obie is doing with the transition? Is this a joke? I know you are a great kidder, but...

"A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take away everything you have." T. Jefferson

[China man]

Obama will not save your country. China Owns you. Please keep shopping Walmart
this helps our economy.

[Philip McDaniel]

“Obama is formulating a plan, has good people in place, and somethings gonna happen.”
“Obama is formulating a plan, has good people in place, and somethings gonna happen.”
Hmm…
‘He's making a list,
And checking it twice;
Gonna find out Who's naughty and nice.

Notice how our resident Narcissus, aka jharp, like Obi-Wan…excuse me Obama, is trying to get down there with the folks with ‘somethings gonna happen’

Well, something IS going to happen, that’s for sure. Whether it is what we want is another matter.

[WAHOO WILLIE]

"Moe, they are polling on how Obie is doing with the transition?"

Fred, I don't think Pookie is kidding. I think there's even a poll for the Obie's on whether he goes to the terlet once or twice a day. A bit sad really, especially when one considers how awfully disappointing these sweet, tolerant sheeples are going to be.

Fred, I'm beginning to wonder about our furry friend "Pookie DaLameLLama" I've long wondered if english was a second language fr the pookster from Austin.....Now she writes that (basically and paraphrasing)anyone stupid enough to be in our armed forces couldn't locate "her" country on a map. Now, I realize that Harpie's "ilk" (I love their use of that word) has made our public schools lettuce picker factories. That most HS graduates can't tell you which countries border the US....but SURELY, they could find the USA on a map......yes?

[Fred Beloit]

Wahoo, every soldier I had occasion to observe map reading, admittedly not that many, not, you know, hundreds, knew where the USA was. Most could even tell one somewhat precisely where in the USA they were, even when they were in a stream bed. In fact Map Reading is a key subject taught therein. Things might have changed some with GPS. Now if Llamette is from Burkina Faso, Comoros, or Guinea-Bissau, there might be some question.

[Mark_0454]

The most interesting thing in this string. Reading what someone who has lived with the Australian and Singapore systems thinks of them. I would like to hear more. It's only one person, but it is real data.

Least interesting thing. Reading someone insult the person who is offering their experience.

[jharp]

"The most interesting thing in this string. Reading what someone who has lived with the Australian and Singapore systems thinks of them. I would like to hear more. It's only one person, but it is real data."

It is also outright false.

"They deliver as good of care as we get in the U.S. For about half the cost."

This statement is not correct with regard to cost; I agree with the first part of it in the context of routine healthcare.

Posted by: Mark Turner | Saturday, December 06, 2008 at 09:20 PM

With all due respect you don't know your ass from first base.

http://www.kff.org/insurance/snapshot/chcm010307oth.cfm

[mark l.]

here's canadian's take on healthcare:

http://www.fraserinstitute.org/commerce.web/article_details.aspx?pubID=4526

"Consider Canada's notorious waiting lists. In 1993, Canadians referred by their doctors to specialists waited an average of 9.3 weeks for treatment. By 2006, it was 17.8 weeks -- almost twice what's considered clinically reasonable."

{the who study that jharp is in love with, without citing michael moore, has the US ranked number one is responsiveness to illness...it counts as 12.5% in determining the overall ranking given)

"Canada's cost advantage is also an illusion. True, Canada spends less per GDP on medical care than America -- but so does Ethiopia. Such comparisons are meaningless without considering value for money. And compared to Americans, Canadians get relatively little in return for the money they spend."

[ajacksonian]

What really gets me, and shows how out of touch the guy is, is that Obama has not bothered to take a look at the federal regulations regarding public buildings... they are *already doing this*. What a buffoon!

And just what part of the Constitution gives education in any way, shape or form to the federal government? Yeah, it doesn't... and the Dept. of Education has demonstrated an inability to get the US reading rate and comprehension level up from that of 1958 when poor Johnny couldn't read. Rock, solid steady since then even with hundreds of billions in federal money down the hole on education. I was hoping we could spend less money and get more change by getting the federal nose *out* of the system.

Liberals and the Left love to think of the State as omnicompetent... instead it is omni-incompetent save on the very few things necessary to keep us alive as a Nation. And the extra things distract from that, and those few things have a high overhead on them. Just what you don't want: high overhead and incompetence.

For a guy who is so smart, he doesn't seem to know much.

[jharp]

Waiting times: Here's how the dodge works: If you look at waiting times, you'll see that relatively few Americans wait more than four months for surgery, which helps folks claim that America doesn't ration care, and makes our system look pretty good on the waiting times metric. Here's what they don't tell you: When you look at who foregoes care, the international comparisons reverse themselves. About 23% of Americans report that they didn't receive care, or get a test due to cost. In Canada, that number is 5.5%.

Worse, the American number is understated, as in order to know you need a surgery or further care, you need to go for an initial appointment, and as it happens, many Americans -- including 36 percent below average income -- aren't even seeking that. And it's this group -- which is largely low-income, and I'd guess, largely urban -- who would, in another country, be experiencing terrific wait times. Here, they never get care at all. We call that "no wait" rather than infinite wait. The studies misleadingly write them out of the waiting statistics, making it look like America has low wait times when the relevant population is simply never getting care at all. But would you rather be the urban poor in London, who wait a year for a hip replacement, or the urban poor in America, who never get one?

So it's not good and it's not pleasant. Maybe it's cheap?

Canada: $3678
France: $3449
Germany: $3371
UK: $2760
USA: $6714

http://www.prospect.org/csnc/blogs/ezraklein_archive?month=12&year=2008&base_name=notes_from_a_panel

[mark l.]

1. Health Level: 25 percent
2. Health Distribution: 25 percent
3. Responsiveness: 12.5 percent
4. Responsiveness Distribution: 12.5 percent
5. Financial Fairness: 25 percent

This is how WHO used its weighting in determining its overall rankings.

"Responsiveness. This factormeasures a variety
of health care system features, including
speed of service, protection of privacy, choice
of doctors, and quality of amenities (e.g., clean
hospital bed linens). Although those features
may not directly contribute to longer life
expectancy, people do consider them aspects
of the quality of health care services, so there is
a strong case for including them."

number one, jharp. If you would like to divert money which provides for this, to shore up other areas, feel free.

http://www.cato.org/pubs/bp/bp101.pdf

the link discusses the WHO findings in detail. When one looks at the methodology, your whole argument falls apart.

"29 out of 30"

"Those who cite the WHO rankings typically
present themas an objectivemeasure of
the relative performance of national health
care systems. They are not. The WHO rankings
depend crucially on a number of underlying
assumptions—some of them logically
incoherent, some characterized by substantial
uncertainty, and some rooted in ideological
beliefs and values that not everyone
shares. Changes in those underlying assumptions
can radically alter the rankings."

[jharp]

Hey mark l,

Why don't you comment on our wonderful health care system here. No wait here. But no insurance either. She was denied coverage. With tow days notice. And no COBRA since the plan didn't exist anymore.

You should be ashamed. It is a friggin national disgrace.

Her own life and her babies life put at risk because of our suckass system.
__________________________________________________________________________

More on Ms. Darling and the worst health care system in the world.

http://www.mansfieldnewsjournal.com/article/20081123/NEWS01/811230315

On Oct. 4, she received a certified letter stating that, as of two days from then, she would no longer have a job or health insurance.

Darling says she asked and doctors agreed induce labor the next day, before the insurance expired Oct. 6.

After seven hours, with doctors about to send her home because the effort to induce was not taking, she began hemorrhaging.

"My placenta tore away from the wall and both the baby and I were literally inches away from death," she said. "We were rushed into emergency C-section, with both of us hanging tight to our lives."

Darling said doctors had to cut her open with no time to administer pain medications. Afterward, she learned her health insurance had already expired, despite the certified letter.

[jharp]

http://www.cato.org/pubs/bp/bp101.pdf

Posted by: mark l. | Sunday, December 07, 2008 at 03:00 PM

Your post confirms what I have said all along.

The level of care is the same.

And the cost in the U.S. is roughly double what the rest spend.

Thank you.

[mark l.]

“The U.S. health system spends a
higher portion of its gross domestic product
than any other country but ranks 37 out of
191 countries according to its performance,
the report finds.”10 The implication is that the
United States performs badly in the OP ranking
despite its high expenditures—an implication that has also been drawn by various
media outlets and commentators.11 A more
accurate statement would be that the United
States performs badly in the ranking because of
its high expenditures, at least in part.
When Costa Rica ranks higher than the
United States in the OP ranking (36 versus
37), that does not mean Costa Ricans get better
health care than Americans. Americans
most likely get better health care—just not as
much better as could be expected given how
muchmore America spends. If the question is
health outcomes alone, without reference to
howmuch has been spent, themore appropriate
measure is the OA ranking, where the
United States is 15 and Costa Rica is 45.

http://www.cato.org/pubs/bp/bp101.pdf

[Mark_0454]

Groucho Marx, "Who are you going to believe, me or your lying eyes?"