No Peace, No Justice - Why Not Try That?

Betsy links to a Thomas Sowell item:

While demanding tolerance from others, gay activists apparently feel no need to show any themselves.

 How did we get to this kind of situation?

With all the various groups who act as if they have a right to win, we got to the present situation over the years, going back to the 1960s, where the idea started gaining acceptance that people who felt aggrieved don't have to follow the rules or even the law.

"No justice, no peace!" was a slogan that found resonance.

Self-indulgence, immaturity? All of the above and more? Take your pick.

I guess if it ever comes right down to it, Blam ... blam .. blam is a pretty good response to that no justice, no peace crap!

Unfortunately, something along those lines is also tied to the problem. Civil society and law enforcement let the idiots get away with garbage like the above without hardly so much as a slap on the wrist.

Ever since the Sixties, Kent State, Chicago - the nation started to indulge bad behavior just so long as the culprit whined over some cause, no matter how legitimate. Don't look for anything to reverse that trend anytime soon, unfortunately.

If the allegedly wronged parties in these situations lack maturity and restraint, it's just as much the fault of a society that stopped demanding that people be accountable, as it is their own - maybe even more so. 

When there's no adult supervision many children will misbehave. That's just a fact of life. That moron Arnold told them to keep going, last I heard. I hope the idiot's proud of himself now hiding behind a Kennedy's skirt. That's a freaking girly man if there ever was one. I figure all those steroids over the years finally shrunk his nads and made him a lib.

It's a theory anyway.

Comments

[Rambo]

Tensions high now?

Wait until the new SBCohen movie as his "Bruno" character comes out!

[Fred Beloit]

"Don't look for anything to reverse that trend anytime soon, unfortunately."
That's putting it mildly, Dan. Here is a video in which funnyman Bill Ayers says, among other things, that all prisons should be abolished. "That's what I believe." Ayers
http://www.breitbart.tv/?p=222983

[Scrapiron]

I go back to when Arnold was elected and the news was 'Ca elected a republican' governor. I stated, no they didn't, they elected the entire Kennedy clan as governor. Now the proof is out there and Ca is suffering from their stupidity.

[jharp]

So what is an appropriate response when you have a basic right taken away?

[templar knight]

A basic right? WTF are you talking about jharp?

[Fred Beloit]

Who says it is a basic right, Harpo? And what "right" are you going on about now?

[Fred Beloit]

Hahah Inquiring minds want to know, but why?

[jharp]

I'm talking about the right to marry without the government telling you whom you can or cannot marry.

[templar knight]

The right to marry is a basic human right? Huh?

[IslamoLlama]

Things that will make you lulz.
http://wonkette.com/404434/christian-group-lays-off-hundreds-after-spending-all-money-on-prop-8-passage

Focus on the Family employees just became a big pack of welfare queens. Better tell Obama to throw a few million more into unemployment insurance and food stamps.

[nambla]

"I'm talking about the right to marry without the government telling you whom you can or cannot marry."

jharp's right. What right does the govt have telling me that I can't marry a 10 year old?

[warren jeffs]

I too, agree with jharp. The govt has no right to legistlate morality.

[david bowie]

thank god for jharp. only he is brave enough to suppoort the rights on individuals based on sexual orientation. bisexuals should have the right of being polygamists, so that the govt can't restrict their freedom of their sexual orientation.

[Ed]

Seems to me that this country began with aggrieved people not following the law

[Ed]

Nambia,

sounds like your spouse did

[scarshapedstar]

"I guess if it ever comes right down to it, Blam ... blam .. blam is a pretty good response to that no justice, no peace crap!"

Yeah... you mentioned Kent State? "Kill 'em all!" didn't really work out too well for Nixon, did it?

[seekeronos]

Laws in this republic are for the most part, decided by the majority (or largest plurality) of votes by the legislators we elect.

So far, the LGBTs have constituted no more than about 3.5% of the national population. Likely an even smaller number of them desire an institute in the name of marriage to be theirs (I refuse to say "gay marriage" as this is an oxymoron; marriage is by definition a legal and spiritual union between a husband [male] and wife [female]....)

... therefore, if the majority of people view a marital super-status for gays and lesbians above that of civil unions or more simple powers of attorney and other documents which can ensure those rights under law, then I fail to see the need for this special institution for a mere 3.5% of our population.

[Totally Heterosexual Conservative]

"I guess if it ever comes right down to it, Blam ... blam .. blam is a pretty good response to that no justice, no peace crap!"

Is that what you did to your brother?

I agree with seekeronos. Because minorities are not the majority, they should not enjoy the same rights as the majority. In fact they should be subject to the tyrannies, superstitions, and bigotry of the purported "majority." I mean, that's the principle upon which our country was founded! Of course, because the Dems just trounced the wingers in the recent election, the "minority" of persons who do not support President Barack Hussein Obama (who is black), should be subject to the whims of the majority. Although, as the learned sage seekeronos tells us, they should take comfort in the fact that powers of attorney and other legal documents shall ensure their rights under the law.

[templar knight]

I suppose you fellas support the right of a small minority of Mormons and Muslims to have multiple wives as well. I don't. So I'm hardly being selective. Certain things shouldn't be allowed. Mulitple wives, men marrying men, and womem marrying women are among them.

[templar knight]

Oh, by the way, total, California was the state that changed its Constitution to forbid gay marriage. Take it up with your fellow liberals, especially the blacks and Hispanics. Don't blame us for what your buddies did. Idiot.

[Paladin]

Seekeronos has the right of it. We've gotten to the point where if you scream loud enough, the media will watch, and if your scream fits their agenda we got banged over the head with it.

Most gays don't want marriage. It's even a small minority of the small minority. They just want it because they can't have it.

[IslamoLlama]

"-- Don't blame us for what your buddies did. Idiot. --"

Hey, I just think it says something about the Republican work ethic that they would get 20% of their workforce shitcanned to pass a single piece of legislation in just one state.

http://wonkette.com/404434/christian-group-lays-off-hundreds-after-spending-all-money-on-prop-8-passage

When Dobson's crew blows $500,000 in the state spreading lies about how gay marriage leads to natural disasters, higher taxes, and a crying baby Jesus, its kinda hard to blame the Hispanics and the Blacks.

Likewise, the gay populations in California know a bit better than you TK. They're taking their frustration out on the Mormon Church - another major anti-gay bank roller - through coordinated boycotts and peaceful protests. Let's see California's Prop 8 survive a repeal attempt when the big financial backers are all broke.

You're on the losing side of history here. Moneyed bigots were the only thing that got this ballot initiative to pass. And the economy isn't strong enough for people to go pissing away their money to save themselves from gay marriage a second time.

[templar knight]

"They're taking their frustrations out on the Mormon Church."

No, they are a bunch of chicken shits, scared to say anything to blacks and Hispanics. They remind me of you, the chicken shit part that is.

As for blacks and Hispanics, I'm just going on what the media reported, that the majority of blacks and Hispanics voted for Prop. 8. So again, take it up with them, chicken shit.

[seekeronos]

"--- When Dobson's crew blows $500,000 in the state spreading lies about how gay marriage leads to natural disasters, higher taxes, and a crying baby Jesus, its kinda hard to blame the Hispanics and the Blacks. ---"

...

Prop. 8 is really only a band-aid solution to a weeping wound that keeps getting re-opened by the same band of whining self-appointed "victims" seeking a name for themselves.

The root of the disease is all the sexual sin we tolerate and cling to, like flies to a dung heap.

And by that, I don't just mean the LGBTs... it is this same "tolerance" for sexual and moral perversion that is dragging us all down into God's judgment.

The more we dig ourselves into the deep pits of sin, the harder it is for us as nation it will be for us to climb out of it as a nation.

[Totally Heterosexual Conservative]

"Oh, by the way, total, California was the state that changed its Constitution to forbid gay marriage. Take it up with your fellow liberals, especially the blacks and Hispanics. Don't blame us for what your buddies did. Idiot."

I know that the stock in trade of wingers like yourself is blaming everything on the scary colored folks. And I know that you delight in the perception that people you hate: blacks, hispanics, gays, i.e. not proper white Americans like you, are all upset with each other. But when the mormon church and powerful business interests actually bankroll a particular ballot item - they tend to draw political ire.

Moran.

[Totally Heterosexual Conservative]

"Prop. 8 is really only a band-aid solution to a weeping wound that keeps getting re-opened by the same band of whining self-appointed "victims" seeking a name for themselves."

Conservative Christians?

[mark l.]

"No, they are a bunch of chicken shits, scared to say anything to blacks and Hispanics."

amen. Someone is stealing their beloved democratic party.

7.2 million voted for Obama in CA.
5.65 million voted against prop 8.

over 20% of the obama supporters voted for him, but not homosexual 'rights'. Anyone want to discuss 'mandates'?

[WAHOO WILLIE]

Is "moran" past tense for moron?

"....powerful business interests actually bankroll a particular ballot item - they tend to draw political ire."

LOLOL

[jharp]

So seeker, templar and others. I suppose you agree with the bible freaks that homosexuality is a choice?

[SacTownMan]

Sorry all of you defenders of Debauchery you loose!

The rational thinking Californians, like me, that voted for Prop 8 finally had their voice heard. This was after 2 different attempts by 40 trolls in the legislature and 4 activist judges that tried to impose their will against the wishes of 4 million Californians from our first vote a few years ago.

To have less that 10% of the population supported by their brain dead liberal friends going on the warpath is laughable. And if any of those "dykes on bikes" would like to get in my face over my vote I say "bring it on"!

Their actions the past two weeks have shown them to be a bunch of whiny, militant losers! In Sacramento they have forced people to resign from their jobs because of their support for Prop 8. Their terrorist tactics only make people less inclined to support their POV not more!

[Anon]

Ah, liberal intolerance, one of my favorite subjects.

The Mormon Church has bankrolled anti gay legislation...what of it? They can throw their support behind or against whatever initiatives they want to. The Catholic Church has bankrolled any number of anti abortion activities as well. So what? This is America, EVERYBODY gets to participate in the process of government, even religious conservatives.

Blacks in CA voted overwhelmingly for Prop 8. Again, so what? They are apparently generally against gay marriage, isn't that their right? Oh wait, I forgot, since they are one of the special classes of "victims" they are supposed to think and believe the same as all the other classes of special, aggrieved people...they're supposed to support gay rights and abortion rights and the rights of illegal aliens as well. Why should they?

I agree with Sowell that Americas victim classes now believe they have a "right" to win, to their own way, because like Jharp constantly tell us, this is the "right" way, the correct way and the only way, thus, whatever actions, legal or illegal, moral or immoral that need to be taken are acceptable. What rubbish.

[templar knight]

"...blame it on the scary colored folks."

You're the one afraid of them, not me. I just told you the truth, that blacks and Hispanics voted for Prop. 8, the fact that you keep dodging the issue shows you to be the coward here, not me. You just can't stand it that blacks and Hispanics don't see gay rights as human rights, and neither do I. Moron.

[WAHOO WILLIE]

Unfortunately harpie we are born with our sexuality and we all, everyone of us has some 'kink' in what is considered 'normal'. By your logic and knowing that we are born to who we are it is ok to be a paedophile, beastial, necrophiliac, blah, blah and on and on. Is there somewhere you draw a line???? I mean since we are born the way we are and can't help ourselves. I don't personally care if governments come up with some way for consenting adults to live together with benefits. But to be honest, I dont think government should have it's stinking hands in anyone's marriage except as they would in any business contract.

[mark l.]

"I suppose you agree with the bible freaks that homosexuality is a choice?"

actually, I agree with the american psychiatric association-

"The American Psychiatric Association has stated “some people believe that sexual orientation is innate and fixed; however, sexual orientation develops across a person’s lifetime.”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_and_psychology

I do believe that there are some homosexuals who are predisposed to the neurosis/fetish becuase of biological components, but there is a significant number of indviduals who have chosen their sexual orientation based on environment. If we were a 'gay society' and the roles were reversed, it would not shock me at all to see homosexuality occurring among a majority and become broadly accepted. I am at a loss to offer a successful model in history, or offer an advantage of such a system.

The link between pedophiles and their choice of victim by sex is no mistake. The initial/primary introdution to sex becomes a very large archtype, which forms individuals specific desires. I have seen the impact of 'unleashing' an underage pedophile among a group of of underage males...left to their own, the younger the underage males, the more likely they will engage and continue to engage in homsexuality.

Sexual oreintation probably does have a gentic component for some, but for a far larger group it is a simple matter of how, when, and where they learn about(and engage in) sex and waht they have been conditioned to find erotic.

[Fred Beloit]

Harpo:"I'm talking about the right to marry without the government telling you whom you can or cannot marry."

Harpo, I am sorry the government told you whom to marry. You are the first person I've met in this sad state. My condolences to you, and more especially to your spouse. But even the "government has dictionaries, courtesy of you and me. When you went to them with your boyfriend and said you wished to be married to a man, they probably looked in their references to see if they could let you do that. The answer was, of course, no. We all have equal rights, they probably explained to you. All women can marry a man and vice versa. Equal rights for all, that's the main thing.

So now you favor running to some judge who is as much an illogical, emotional thinker as you are and presenting your tear stained case. But do you really want judges to make all the rules? That is a little tough on those of us who believe in democracy, don't you think?

But I guess you want special rights for some, based solely on your emotions of course. But didn't we already discuss this topic at length yesterday and daily since the vote on election day? You must be against majority rule and for minority rule. That's OK with me. But you have to sell that stinky cheese to your fellow Americans, because this is a democracy. You are a vast and heavy load, I'm afraid, and dull, dull, dull to boot. I don't believe you could sell central heating systems in the Northwest Territory, which is now, as a result of special rights for special people, called roundtoit or inaminute something.

[templar knight]

Hey, Willie, it's like it never changed around here. I thought these trolls would leave after the election, but damn, they stay for the insults, I guess. Lol.

By the way, how are you? And hey to STM and seek as well! All you trolls(you know who you are) can go to hell. Haha!

[templar knight]

And hey to Fred, too!

[Anon]

I'd say anyone who has ever met a homosexual can tell you that its not a lifestyle choice for the overwhelming majority their sexual preference is hard wired, this is especially true of men, there's a small subset of lesbians who have made a choice to reject heterosexuality.

Right now, a gay couple is free to "marry" in any church that wants to perform the ceremony and they are free to set up their wills exactly the same as a heterosexual couple and many corporations provide health insurance to same sex unmmarried couples that they do NOT provide to heterosexual couples.

So, other than the symbolism of winning a right that for all intents and purposes is meaningless, I'm not sure what all the fuss is about from a real world perspective. What "rights" would a legal "marriage" confer on a gay couple that they can't get or don't already have?

[mark l.]

"I'd say anyone who has ever met a homosexual can tell you..."

if they are male and flaming, they are almost always bipolar.

While there are many who would like to argue that their mental illness is merely a result of their disconnect with society, and had they been accepted they would not exhibit irrational behavior, the argument is tantamount to 'the devil made me do it' logic.

I reaaly don't go around wearing a heterosexual patch on my sleeve, and yet a large segment of those protesting the mormons are people who have obsessed about their sexuality. I'm sorry that my hetereosexuality is responsible for this.

[WAHOO WILLIE]

TK; It would be a bit boring here without trolls. Too much agreeance is not a good thing.

[IslamoLlama]

"-- No, they are a bunch of chicken shits, scared to say anything to blacks and Hispanics. They remind me of you, the chicken shit part that is. --"

Ooooo. TK says that liberals are "chicken shit" because they don't buy his ignorant cannard about blacks and Hispanics unilaterally passing Prop 8. Is that how you sell your drivel, TK? If people don't buy your bull you call them cowards?

Hey, 2 + 2 = 5 and if you don't believe me, you're a giant pussy!

With intellectual prowess like that, conservatives will be on the rebound in 2010, no problem.

[IslamoLlama]

"-- What "rights" would a legal "marriage" confer on a gay couple that they can't get or don't already have? --"

Tax benefits from joint incomes, insurance benefits for spouses, child care benefits if one or both have children, and a variety of other social benefits extended to the spouses of a married person.

The legal benefits of marriage are numerous.

[jharp]

I can't quit wondering why the wingnuts even give a dam. Can't see how it impacts them one iota. The only thing I can see is they love to hate.

I favor equal rights for everyone is my excuse for favoring gay marriage.

I have no doubt it is only a matter of time until gay people have equal rights. Not being gay I'll be patient and boycott anything connected to the hate amendment. And enjoy the Presidency of Obama and the Democratic controlled Congress. Can't wait for the Supreme Court nominees.

[Anon]

I may be mistaken but I believe you can designate anyone you want as the beneficiary of insurance, so I don't see this as a serious issue, or even an issue unless the person failed to make this designation or died w/out a will.

Child care benefits are already available to single parents so I can't see how "gay marriage" would possibly have any impact on the child care arrangements for gays with children, I am not aware that married people at present have any advantage over singles so I don't think this is a valid point.

I'm not sure what you mean by "social" benefits, it sounds like something that is not related to legal benefits and so I suspect gay people already have these benefits, such as being able to stage a wedding, get gifts, etc.

You are right about the benefits of joint filing, but I do think that is pretty negligible.

[templar knight]

Who in the hell said blacks and Hispanics unilaterally passed Prop. 8? Now you're not only a chicken shit, but you're full of shit, Llama. When did I say that? Show me where I said that, or admit you're a liar. Although we all know you to be a liar. But indulge us for once. Answer the damn question.

[jharp]

Anon,

How would like to go through the hassle and expense of hiring a lawyer to draw up legal documents in order for you to have the same rights your neighbor has simply by getting married?

[Anon]

Oh brother, it isn't expensive or a hassle to make out a will. Everyone should have a will anyway, gay or straight.

The truth is that "gay marriage" is largely a symbolic issue that has very little to do with actual "rights"

[IslamoLlama]

"-- Who in the hell said blacks and Hispanics unilaterally passed Prop. 8? Now you're not only a chicken shit, but you're full of shit, Llama. When did I say that? --"

You desperately want liberal to eat their own. Ironically enough, you only have to look at the Lieberman vote to note how that's the last thing liberals do to each other. Everyone's all hugs and snuggles in the Big Blue Tent.

That said, you repeatedly labeled blacks and Hispanics as the folks who pushed Prop 8.

"-- You're the one afraid of them, not me. I just told you the truth, that blacks and Hispanics voted for Prop. 8, the fact that you keep dodging the issue shows you to be the coward here, not me. --"

"-- Take it up with your fellow liberals, especially the blacks and Hispanics. Don't blame us for what your buddies did. Idiot. --"

"-- As for blacks and Hispanics, I'm just going on what the media reported, that the majority of blacks and Hispanics voted for Prop. 8. So again, take it up with them, chicken shit. --"

Blacks and Hispanics. Blacks and Hispanics. Blacks and Hispanics. Funny how a pair of minority groups are at the top of your list for a bill that passed on a majority vote. You'd think "Blacks and Hispanics" were the majority of the 51% voting block that passed the legislation. They weren't. White people passed around petitions. White people put it on the ballot. White people who happened to have been spurred on by a media campaign funded by milky white Mormons from Utah and evangelical fundies from Colorado and South Carolina rallied the votes for it.

But old white fundies aren't a Democratic voting block. Easier to hand the win on Prop 8 off to "Blacks and Hispanics" than to be honest and embrace the old white fundies who made gay marriage illegal in California. Conservatives are terrified of Big Tent Democrats, so they're trying to invent a wedge issue. It's a cute trick. Very Rovian. But its failing.

And - in classic Rovian style - when a dirty trick fails the only thing little bigot wankers like you know how to do is bitch and cry and call people "chicken shit", then deny you said anything when we've got you saying this shit IN THE SAME THREAD.

Bigoted, lying, and stupid. You've hit the trifecta, TK.

[jharp]

"Oh brother, it isn't expensive or a hassle to make out a will. Everyone should have a will anyway, gay or straight."

The difference being everyone is required to do so. Gay or straight everyone is treated the same. Except in the absence of a will married people are treated differently.

"The truth is that "gay marriage" is largely a symbolic issue that has very little to do with actual "rights""

Wrong. Married people have very specific rights that the unmarried don't. Filing a joint tax return being one of them.

And seriously, why do you care? How does this affect you in the slightest?

[Angela Sacramento]

I've been watching all these protests, and just hurting for the people they're targeting so ruthlessly. There are families involved. I came across this story, it's a counter protest that worked! There's hope out there. band together good people!!

Leatherby’s Boycott Melts–The Inside Scoop
Supporters line out the door in support of Family Ice Cream Parlor, delivering a humiliating defeat to protesters

The inside scoop from the front lines on the Leatherby’s boycott is that Leatherby’s loyal supporters pommeled the opposition. Standing in front of the store holding signs and giving away free ice cream, the dozen or so protesters were perplexed by the stream of constant customers.

http://beetlebabee.wordpress.com/2008/11/18/leatherbys-boycott-melts/