How About Some Math And Science, First

I think it might be wise to back off on some of the criticisms of what appears to be a new Obama initiative by labeling it Marxist indoctrination. And, yes, I get the collectivist nature of it and Obama's mindset. Still, I suspect it's more John Kennedy, than Karl Marx. Starting off sounding a tad unhinged doesn't leave a lot of room for growth over the next four years. And that's precisely how critics will paint such criticism early on.

Obama will call on citizens of all ages to serve America, by developing a plan to require 50 hours of community service in middle school and high school and 100 hours of community service in college every year.

That said, American school and even college age kids need to learn to read, write and do Math and Science better than they are doing right now.

I'm also in favor of less Federal intervention in our current school system, not more. And isn't it the Obama-loving media that has been telling us for years how overburdened are kids today when it comes to time and study demands?

Adding one more distracting component into that mix as schools and students are already struggling educationally doesn't sound to me like a good plan. Let's prepare and empower them as individuals first before sending them out to serve the man.

I hope Obama runs out of slogans and gimmicky plans eventually, or it's going to be a very long four years.

If I didn't know better because a fawning media has told me so, I'd think, right out of the chute, this is the type of thing an empty suit does first; not a man prepared to be President of the United States.

Comments

[Spartan112]

You'd be hard pressed to find a good private school that doesn't have a required community service component. Mine requires 60 over the four years of upper school. The amount of hours they are talking about will not create undo stress on kids, especially if it's allowed to take place over the summer months or on holiday breaks (a perfect time to help in a gift drive like Toys for Tots, etc).

[Fred Beloit]

The Obamans love the working classes, it's just that they don't want to pay anybody but themselves for work done:
http://www.wthr.com/global/story.asp?s=9299280

112, kids in private schools don't count because their parents assent to the "volunteering" and kids are selected to attend private schools like yours based on their aptitudes for learning. In public schools, the kids need to spend their time on the basics. If anyone knows this you should. And because of peer and teacher pressure the "volunteer" program will turn into involuntary servitude.

Finally, school systems are state business. The Feds don't even belong in it.

[Philip McDaniel]

There are already organizations in place that do a lot of community service: Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts immediately come to mind. Oh, but the leftists don’t like either one since their leaders cannot be avowed homosexuals so I guess we’ll have to have another government run program complete with Washington bureaucracy, mandatory compliancy and a complete instruction set, read indoctrination, on how to ‘service’ the community.

[Spartan112]

"kids are selected to attend private schools like yours based on their aptitudes for learning. "

Really? Are you sure about that?

Kids are selected to go to private schools for a number of reasons. Aptitude is a piece of the puzzle in many cases but not all. Legacy, ability to pay, athletic ability are also major considerations.

If a kid is a knuckle dragging moron but his dad is going to build a new hockey rink for the school, trust me he'll get in.

[Spartan112]

Oh and Fred, my point (and Obama's) is that getting kids to volunteer can enhance the educational experience. We had a young lady a number of years ago that volunteered in a local neo-natal unit. It inspired her to become an OB-GYN.

I volunteered at a High School for at risk youth when I was 19 and it inspired me to teach. Why not see if we can inspire a generation?

[Heather]

Why not see if we can inspire a generation?

Isn't there something in the Constitution that says you can't force people to labor at your whim?

When you volunteered at age 19, it was your choice. Kids today are free to volunteer if they choose. You have no right to take that choice away.

[Fred Beloit]

"If a kid is a knuckle dragging moron but his dad is going to build a new hockey rink for the school, trust me he'll get in."
Exceptio probat regulam in casibus non exceptis.
An exception demonstrates there is a rule, 112.

In addition will this legacy you describe graduate?

[Bandit]

I volunteered at a High School for at risk youth when I was 19 and it inspired me to teach.

No wonder the schools are so fcked up

[Fred Beloit]

"Oh and Fred, my point (and Obama's) is that getting kids to volunteer can enhance the educational experience. We had a young lady a number of years ago that volunteered in a local neo-natal unit. It inspired her to become an OB-GYN."

So, if there were no volunteer experience for school kids the young lady you mention would be a homeless person today, and you would be a seller of shoe polish?

[xerocky]

"Isn't there something in the Constitution that says you can't force people to labor at your whim?

When you volunteered at age 19, it was your choice. Kids today are free to volunteer if they choose. You have no right to take that choice away."

And that to me is the obvious point, that's why it's called volunteering and not forced labor.

"Obama will call on citizens of all ages to serve America, by developing a plan to REQUIRE 50 hours of community service in middle school and high school and 100 hours of community service in college every year."

[Roy Mustang]

Obmaa, take your "Obama corps" and shove it. I am not going to take part in your mandatory volunteering crap. Go ahead and arrest me, like the Marxist piece of s*** you are.

[BobinStamford]

I think that Roy, in his patriotic anger, is misinterpreting things. Roy, Obama wants a volunteer corp to help your ilk. He know that you have nothing to offer. Just sit back and enjoy. Maybe someone will come and give you a turkey for Thanksgiving or something.

Hope.Change.

[Spartan112]

In addition will this legacy you describe graduate?

Posted by: Fred Beloit | Friday, November 07, 2008 at 09:14 AM

Of course. W did.

So, if there were no volunteer experience for school kids the young lady you mention would be a homeless person today, and you would be a seller of shoe polish?

Posted by: Fred Beloit | Friday, November 07, 2008 at 09:21 AM

Probably not, but it did allow her to be exposed to something she had not considered.

I volunteered at a High School for at risk youth when I was 19 and it inspired me to teach.

No wonder the schools are so fcked up

Posted by: Bandit | Friday, November 07, 2008 at 09:15 AM

Nice Bandit (as in, Smokey and the?) but I teach at one of the vaunted private schools Temp is so fond of.

[LogicalUS]

This is part and parcel of Obama's time at the Annanberg challenge. Focusing the education on training good little "community organizers" instead of increasing the students knowledge of math, science and technology, which would allow the student to build his own quality life and devote his resources in the way he\she sees fit. Can't have that because then Obama and his marxists can't direct the student in a way which would further the left's agenda. BobinStamford will you allow students to volunteer by joining Pro-Life groups who picket outside abortion clinics? Will students be allowed to volunteer with religious groups? What about ACORN?

Who is more valuable to a community? A "community organizer" who cost 18K a year in public funds who agitates for 3 years against the local Housing Authority to get the plumbing fixed in public housing or a man who owns a plumbing company who volunteers a day a month to fix the plumbing in the housing.

How many of the units could have been fixed with the $54K given to the "community organizer"?

[the elector of saxony]

LA Unified failed to graduate half the students it enrolled. Dallas ISD is very near to hitting that mark. The valedictorian of a recent Califonia HS graduating class failed to pass the California exit exam for HS students. If any of you thinks the public school experience really needs one more "social" component, you lack even an elementary understanding of what schools are intended to do. Urban schools are spending more and more money and accomplishing less and less. Perhaps the multiple social mandates handed down by the idiotic educrats in this country are getting in the way?

In graduate school, I was a teaching fellow. 15 years ago, incoming freshmen from public schools could barely perform simple calculations. The "educators" focus on banning dodgeball and not hurting peoples feelings, and making darn sure that no one says a prayer before a football game, but it seems very little time is spent teaching algebra, physics, and literature. The future of the country is nothing more or less than our kids ability to compete in math and science. Lowering the standards to graduate morons is not the same as teaching. Spend some time in China or India. You will realize that our "educators" have betrayed the country, and have as a group caused the future of innovation and jobs creation to permanently relocate overseas. At least my wife and I have the credentials to follow. Most Americans are underqualified to emigrate to Australia. They don't need any "urban poets" or Eco-Hip Hop arists there.

[Steveo]

This program could be a good one from a conservative standpoint. The citizens of the US are considerably more conservative than the teachers in our public schools. When you or I volunteer at a school, students can be exposed to viewpoints to the right of the NEA for a change. I'll participate!

[templar knight]

Requiring someone to volunteer is the very antithesis of volunteering. It's not volunteering when it is required, therefore it takes away from the good feeling one gets from helping out his fellow man. All my kids worked at the local food bank without being forced to, and one of my kids worked a week every summer at a camp for disabled children. I think volunteering is very important myself, and find it odd that most of the people who volunteer are Christians, and few of them are liberals.

I'm sure Obama's volunteer force will receive credit for many things that are hardly worthwhile, and more likely to be bad for the person in question and the nation as a whole.

[Falling Down Over]

There is this little thing called the "13th Ammendment" that these libs keep Overlooking or more likley, "KEEP FORGETTING" about.

13th Ammendment

Section 1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime where of the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.
Section 2. Congress shall have the power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.

[David M]

The Thunder Run has linked to this post in the - Web Reconnaissance for 11/07/2008 A short recon of what’s out there that might draw your attention, updated throughout the day...so check back often.

http://thunderrun.blogspot.com/2008/11/web-reconnaissance-for-11072008.html

[BobinStamford]

That line in the 13th "Ammendment" certainly is troubling. Perhaps Justices Clinton and Schumer can do something about it - right after they get done tinkering with the 2nd.

[Scrapiron]

22 years in the military, volunteer.
14 years as a 100% volunteer firefighter/EMT ($0 compensation) and I sat home (first time) and listened to other volunteers cutting two people out of a crashed vehicle Wed night, and another this morning. Both in my departments area. My give a sh** got up and left when the idiots elected a '0' and anti-american to the office of POTUS, I doubt it will come back. Plan on turning in my gear in Jan. Maybe some liberal is coming to use it. By the way, forced service is not volunteer, but is slavery.

[ptg]

It shouldn't take you very long to see the difference between JFK's Peace Corps and Obama's universal public service. Sometimes you can be such a silly Pollyanna. Whatever happened to "eternal vigilance"? Has it been replaced with "blind faith"?

[BobinStamford]

I'm sure that the decent volunteers in your department are happy to be rid of your angry self. Turn in your gear now. Let a real American volunteer - not a bitter loser like you.

[Dan Riehl]

"Sometimes you can be such a silly Pollyanna. Whatever happened to "eternal vigilance"? Has it been replaced with "blind faith"?"

No, it's been replaced with the reasoning to not start screaming Che!! based upon some silly words on a website and looking like a freaking unhinged retard thereby allowing the media and the Left to characterize your movement as a bunch of Rightwing lunatics, damning you to at least eight-years of complete marginalization in American politics.

It's about arguing politics over policy and ideas and not demogoging every freaking point that comes down the road to entertain the morons who must have their fix.

Tune in to Hannity if you wanna jerk-off to that, jerk-off.

[KilgoreTrout XL]

@Philip McDaniel

"There are already organizations in place that do a lot of community service: Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts immediately come to mind. Oh, but the leftists don’t like either one since their leaders cannot be avowed homosexuals so I guess we’ll have to have another government run program complete with Washington bureaucracy, mandatory compliancy and a complete instruction set, read indoctrination, on how to ‘service’ the community."

You don't know a whole lot about the girl scouts, huh?

Anyway, this is a mildly annoying proposal which I think will go absolutely nowhere.

[Todd]

Isn't there something in the Constitution that says you can't force people to labor at your whim?
When you volunteered at age 19, it was your choice. Kids today are free to volunteer if they choose. You have no right to take that choice away.
Posted by: Heather | Friday, November 07, 2008 at 08:58 AM
-------------------

Jeez, Louise. Get your facts straight, Heather. Obama is not forcing people into indentured servitude. Young people can volunteer, understand?....volunteer to do community service in exchange for help in college tuition, or a chance to learn housing construction skills and complete their high school education. The involvement in community service will give them opportunities to enhance their education or learn skills that will increase their opportunities for employment in the construction industry. Just what is so awful about that idea???????

Here's the proposal : http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/04/barack_obama_the_community_org.html

College kids get the best deal. Obama's American Opportunity Tax Credit will essentially pay $40 per hour, up to $4,000 a year, for 100 hours of "public service." Yes, you read that right.

"This fully refundable credit will endure that the first $4,000 of a college education is completely free for most Americans, and will cover two-thirds the cost of tuition at the average public college or university. Recipients of this credit will be required to conduct 100 hours of public service a year, either during the school year or over the summer months." (emphasis added)

Suppose you drop out of school. No problem. The Green Job Corps will offer you "service opportunities to improve energy conservation and efficiency of homes and buildings" right there in your neighborhood. And, Obama will expand the YouthBuild Program that offers low-income young people a chance to "learn housing construction skills jobs and complete their high school education." The 2007 budget of this U.S. Department of Housing & Urban Development (HUD) program was $50 million. Obama plans to increase its slots from 8,000 to 50,000, with a proportionate budget increase to about $300,000,000.

[Fred Beloit]

Turd, do you know of any new government program that ended up costing the estimate or below the estimate in the startup? No? Neither do I.
What do you suppose is the total estimate for all of these programs, which when once began will never end? The Job Corps started in the mid-sixties under Johnson, the Peace Corps in the early 60s. Mission accomplished, the war on poverty has been won and world peace is ours now to cherish.

[M. Simon]

But Dan,

The idea of publicly funded schools was another progressive/socon coalition as was alcohol prohibition.

The deal is the progressives ultimately got the upper hand. If only the public schools had danced with the devils who brought them. Instead of just one of the devils.

You do evil - the evil comes back to bite you. It is ultimately a just world.

[M. Simon]

Todd,

All that extra college money will cause tuitions to rise - meaning kids that don't want to serve will be at a disadvantage. You see - you can't do just one thing.