Obama And Ayres: Does It Matter?

Certainly I believe it matters. Patrick O'Hannigan weighs in on the subject here at Am Spec and highlights some of the surrounding story.

Conroy goes on to write that "Palin has increasingly focused her remarks on tearing down Obama." Like the CNN panelist who stopped analyzing the second presidential debate to fret that "what Sarah Palin is doing is so dangerous," Conroy seems to think it would be better to build up the junior Senator from Illinois than to criticize his judgment.

Comments

[Mr DeBakey]

"Former governor Milliken backs away from McCain"

http://www.mlive.com/grpress/news/index.ssf/2008/10/former_governor_milliken_backs.html

"Milliken, a lifelong Republican, is among some past leaders from the party's moderate wing voicing reservations and, in some cases, opposition to McCain's candidacy."

[mary]

"BAD ECONOMY: Obama Pays $961,000 For Half-Hour Ad..."

The above is a headline from drudge. Sorry, but in this economy, with the entire financial system in trouble. Not to mention people losing their jobs and homes. This pompous ass has the audacity to rub it in the face of the American people?

[mj]

It doesn't matter. What matters is the fact that the McCain campaign is whipping up racism and fear, resulting in people shouting for Obama to be killed. What matters is that the Republicans are poisoning the water, trying to create a toxic environment during a time when we should come together as a county.

If Ayers is such dangerous person, why isn't he in prison? Why don't we arrest him now?

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/10/opinion/l10ayers.html?_r=2&oref=login&ref=opinion&pagewanted=print

Look at this link. Now tell me again why this matters?

[neelynzus]

Never in my lifetime has a candidate been able to lie with impunity, knowing that he will not be exposed by the news media. Barack Obama is a friend to radicals and criminals, a facilitator of corruption and an unabashed socialist. And apparently his amoral groupthinkers have infiltrated everywhere.

Think about what this campaign and Obama's election can mean to our country: Return of the fairness doctrine; non-prosecution of Acorn voter fraud; perpetuation of sub-prime lending; the end of secret ballots in union elections; Americans taxed to fund global anti-poverty programs managed by the corrupt UN; elimination of states' rights to impose reasonable constraints on abortion; anti-gun legislation; Democrat "energy" policies; government run health care, Chicago-style politics in the White House; etc., etc. Forget about national security.

What can people be thinking? I spent twenty years as an elected Democrat, supporting and contributing to Democrats and I have no enthusiasm for John McCain, but I'm not a lunatic. If Obama gets in we are just screwed.

[ET]

It matters because it speaks to obama's judgement and character. If he has nothing to hide about his past associations, why back away from the questions? McCain addresses his failings in the S&L crisis openly and honestly in his book. Obama has written TWO autobiograqphies, neither of which come clean about his alliances with Ayers and Wright. What is he hiding? Why not release all of the Annenburg documents and admit the full extent of his ACORN ties? Because all of that info would reveal him as a corrupt, radical leftist politician, and he needs to stay in the closet until he wins the election.

If you supported Obama when he seemed to be a fresh new kind of politician who stood for real hope and change, how can you still support him now that you know that, at the very least, he lied to you about that...he has always been a calculating, self-serving politician? Only a fool would believe the hype that is the obama campaign. McCain might not be perfect, but Obama is downright crooked.

[North Dallas Thirty]

Re the New York Times link: sad to see a Federal prosecutor defend a man who has repeatedly bragged about his guilt and who still, well after Barack Obama first knew him, made it quite clear that his only regret was that he hadn't done enough.

http://perfunction.typepad.com/perfunction/2008/10/video-rise-of-bill-ayers-ied-maker-obama-mentor.html

Then again, it goes to show why Ayers couldn't be convicted; the leftist government agents who were after him didn't want to do it.

Can we expect more of the same in an Obama Presidency? After all, Obama-supporting elected prosecutors and district attorneys already threatened to put in jail people who ran advertisements critical of Obama, and Obama staffers are already ordering the Secret Service to arrest and harass people who don't support Obama.

http://www.lufkindailynews.com/news/content/news/stories/2008/10/07/secret_service.html#comments

Furthermore, Obama supporters are already threatening violence if Obama isn't elected.

[jaime]

"This pompous ass has the audacity to rub it in the face of the American people?"

Obama's money comes from a combination of a large base of small donors and wealthy people giving the maximum donations.

John McCain is funding his campaign with YOUR tax dollars, even though he has seven houses, wears $500 shoes and owns 10 cars. He spends more on his servants every year than your house is worth. He charges more on his credit cards than you probably earn in a year. Cindy McCain wore a $350,000 outfit to the Republican convention and there wasn't a peep from you concern trolls. Why? Because your outrage is a lie. Or you're a dumbshit.

[mj]

"If you supported Obama when he seemed to be a fresh new kind of politician who stood for real hope and change"

I support the Democratic party because I'm sick and tired of the failed Republican polices our country has been living with the past 8 years. I don't consider Obama to be a "savior" or "messiah". He's a politician.

"the leftist government agents who were after him didn't want to do it."

Ah yes, another conspiracy theory. Just like the media is out to get the Republicans. I swear that everyone in the right wing is high, considering how paranoid they are. Quick get the tin foil hats!

"Furthermore, Obama supporters are already threatening violence if Obama isn't elected."

So obviously this makes death threats ok. These "threats" that Obama supporters supposedly made were never made at a campaign rally in front of Obama or Biden. I thought the Republicans were supposed to be God's Own Party? As a Christian, I can say that the hatred you are spewing out isn't very Christ-like at all.

Shame on you.

[ET]

So, MJ, you are willing to accept a corrupt democrat over ANY republican? You are willing to gamble on a man about whom you know very little, only as much as his carefully calculated campaign will reveal, as oppossed to a man whose record is long and distinguished? For a man who has gained his position through graft and theft, over a man who served his country honorably.

You are voting with your heart and not your head. Shame on you.

[Andy B]

You know what's fascinating to me? All the wise people who conclude that, despite all of Obama's connections with racist, anti-Semitic, pastors, unrepentant terrorists, and crooked Chicago hustlers, that Obama himself does not hold these beliefs. Rather it's because he's a cynical, ruthless, expedient, political opportunist that Obama hitched his fortunes to these unsavory characters.

Look at it another way. If a white candidate had the very same associations the conclusions would not be the same as they are about Obama. He'd, without delay, be labeled a racist, anti-Semitic, terrorist supporting crook. Period.

Ask yourself one other thing. What if Obama does agree with these folks, holds the very same hatreds, has the very same prejudices, and operates behind the scenes in the exact same, shady, deceptive way as his associates, but is cleverly concealing this for the same ruthless, or expedient, political opportunistic reasons people claim he has these associations in the first place?

I mean if he's so ruthless and politically driven that he'd associate with such people in the first place. What evidence is there he does not share these beliefs?

It's not inconceivable. Look what has gone unreported so far in this campaign. Will we find out after he's elected that he is as crooked as Rezko, racist as Wright, and anti-capitalist, and anti-American as Ayers?

The only reason he is getting a pass on all of these connections that no other person would get is because as Charles Krauthammer put it, he is "...new, unknown, opaque and self-contained." I'd a because he's black. And the failure of our media has made this possible.

Look, I don't take comfort in the fact that Obama is so cynical, so ruthless, so expedient a political opportunist that he would only be associated with these types of people simply to further his political career.

The same way I'm not comforted when I read he does not hold their views. If we were simply to make our judgment about him on the evidence we have we'd have to say he more than not shares these peoples views. Otherwise there would at least be evidence, not just from the Obama campaign, to the contrary.

[North Dallas Thirty]

Claim of the Obamabot: "Obama's money comes from a combination of a large base of small donors and wealthy people giving the maximum donations."

Reality:

"It's a valid question given what Timmerman discovered about a strange series of reportable contributions from one "Good Will" of Austin, Texas, who lists his employer as "Loving" and his profession as "You."

There are 1,000 separate campaign disclosure entries for Mr. Will, most for $25, totaling $17,375. The per-cycle, per-person primary/general election limit is $4,600.

And then there's somebody named "Doodad Pro" from the mythical "Nando, N.Y." Funny, but Mr. Pro also is employed by "Loving" and his occupation is "You." Newsmax's Timmerman found 786 separate donations, most again for $25, for a grand total of $19,500."

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/opinion/archive/s_591519.html

Attack by Obamabot: "John McCain is funding his campaign with YOUR tax dollars"

Reality:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/06/19/AR2008061903026.html

Notice how Barack Obama lies, claiming that public financing is a good thing that prevents corruption and special interests from stealing elections, then claiming that it's a bad thing when Republicans use it.

Claim by Obamabot: "These "threats" that Obama supporters supposedly made were never made at a campaign rally in front of Obama or Biden."

Just in national newspapers.

http://www.philly.com/dailynews/opinion/20080902_Fatimah_Ali__We_need_Obama__not_4_more_years_of_George_Bush.html

Furthermore, we haven't discussed Obama's attacks and insistences that Sarah Palin's son Trig was not hers and that Todd Palin was having incestuous sex with his daughters.

[jaime]

"I mean if he's so ruthless and politically driven that he'd associate with such people in the first place. What evidence is there he does not share these beliefs?"

Like that time when McCain went after the zealot Republicans as agents of intolerance and 8 years later he can't choke on Pat Robertson's dick fast enough? Is McCain now an agent of intolerance?

McCain is as every bit as crooked as Charles Keating, right? I mean, at least Obama never went on luxurious vacations with Bill Ayers.

[IslamoLlama]

"-- You know what's fascinating to me? All the wise people who conclude that, despite all of Obama's connections with racist, anti-Semitic, pastors, unrepentant terrorists, and crooked Chicago hustlers, that Obama himself does not hold these beliefs. Rather it's because he's a cynical, ruthless, expedient, political opportunist that Obama hitched his fortunes to these unsavory characters. --"

Uh... no.

Wise people conclude that sitting on the same school board with a guy who was a leftist radical when you were eight, and living in the same city as an anti-Semite who also just happens to be your same skin color, and simply being both "a politician" and "from Chicago" does not instantly tar your credentials.

I do love how McCain's endorsement by Pastor Haggie has fallen by the wayside while the Reverend Wright connection lives on. And I'm amazed at how Obama's most tenuous connections with even the most mainstream Islamic groups makes him a bomb-throwing terrorist, while McCain gets celebrated for going off to Vietnam to fly missions in which he actually bombed people.

But all that aside, wise and intelligent and coherent individuals are merely witnessing Obama's campaign soar with the eagles as it rolls up inevitable momentum that will result in electoral success. And they're witnessing John McCain's cash strapped Paris Hilton-laden bland lifeless catastro-fuck roll farther down the mountain.

If running a campaign is anything like running a country, its pretty freak'n obvious who is best prepared to be Commander in Chief.

[IslamoLlama]

"-- http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/opinion/archive/s_591519.html --"

Dallas, you fail again. That's not even an actual investigative report. It's an opinion column. They couldn't get FOX News journalists to touch this smear with a ten foot pole, because it would be debunked in an instant.

"-- http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/06/19/AR2008061903026.html --"

And we've got yet another editorial. No actual links to facts or evidence. Just wild conjecture.

And it doesn't even do anything to refute the claim that McCain is running on the federal dime. McCain is - in fact - taking federal election money on a $1 for $1 basis up to the cap. The editorial doesn't even refute that much. It is but to laugh.

"-- Furthermore, we haven't discussed Obama's attacks and insistences that Sarah Palin's son Trig was not hers and that Todd Palin was having incestuous sex with his daughters. --"

Sweet baby Jesus in a blender, what are you smoking?

[neelynzus]

mj wrote: "I thought the Republicans were supposed to be God's Own Party? As a Christian, I can say that the hatred you are spewing out isn't very Christ-like at all."

Nobody is spewing hatred at a greater rate than the anti-Bushers and Obots who troll around these websites as commenters. As for the rallies, there is no reason to believe these screechers in the audience are not plants. Remember Hillary's plants. In any event, if they were anti-Bushers or McCain/Palin bashers at Obama rallies, there would be no news coverage.

"As a Christian [you] can say ...?" Oh please! What kind of Christian supports someone who worshipped for twenty years at the feet of a racist gasbag who spouted anti-American, anti-Christian Black Liberation Theology, without noticing the radicalism and hatred? What kind of Christian supports a legislator who opposed legislation to require medical care for newborns who were being allowed by hospitals to die of suffocatation after unsuccessful abortions? What kind of Christian supports someone who claims to be a Christian, but tries to exploit public ignorance of the New Testament by claiming we can infer endorsement of gay civil unions from the Sermon on the Mount while minimizing what he calls an "obscure passage in Romans. Really. I do not oppose civil unions, but they are certainly not condoned by the Sermon and there are no "obscure passages" in Romans for Christians.

Apparently, you Obots have no shame. But I guess I already knew that.

[North Dallas Thirty]

"Wise people conclude that sitting on the same school board with a guy who was a leftist radical when you were eight, and living in the same city as an anti-Semite who also just happens to be your same skin color, and simply being both "a politician" and "from Chicago" does not instantly tar your credentials."

But, when said leftist terrorist not only refuses to repudiate his behavior, but continues to insist that he did the right thing -- and then receive hundreds of millions of dollars in grant money to teach his same racist philosophies in Chicago public schools -- then it does so rather nicely.

Obama knew what Ayers had done, that Ayers still thought it was right, that Ayers wished he had done more, and that Ayers was still teaching the same radical leftist behavior -- and then supported him teaching it to more children.

Probably because Obama didn't see any difference between what he was clapping and cheering for every Sunday and Ayers's philosophy.

"Convinced that all whites were born tainted with the original sin of “skin privilege,” the fighting brigade of the New Left internalized racialist thinking as hatred of their own whiteness. “All white babies are pigs,” declared one Weatherman. On one occasion the feminist poet Robin Morgan was breast-feeding her son at the offices of the radical journal Rat. A Weatherwoman saw this and told her, “You have no right to have that pig male baby.” “How can you say that?” Morgan asked. “What should I do?” “Put it in the garbage,” the Weatherwoman answered.

Bernadine Dohrn [Ayers' wife], an acid-loving University of Chicago law student turned revolutionary, reflected the widespread New Left fascination with the serial-killing hippie Übermensch Charles Manson. “Dig It! First they killed those pigs, then they ate dinner in the same room with them, they even shoved a fork into a victim’s stomach! Wild!” In appreciation, her Weather Underground cell made a three-fingered “fork” gesture its official salute."

http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=ZWEwNWI4ZmU1N2E1OGVlZWIwZjVjNmQ2NWIwMzRlOGM=

Next:

"I do love how McCain's endorsement by Pastor Haggie has fallen by the wayside while the Reverend Wright connection lives on."

Probably because McCain didn't spend twenty years clapping and cheering in a pew of Hagee's church, name Hagee as his spiritual advisor, quote Hagee extensively in his books, and make Hagee part of his campaign staff and advisors.

Aside from the obvious, of course.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/05/22/mccain-rejects-hagee-endo_n_103143.html

Next:

"And I'm amazed at how Obama's most tenuous connections with even the most mainstream Islamic groups makes him a bomb-throwing terrorist, while McCain gets celebrated for going off to Vietnam to fly missions in which he actually bombed people."

Funny, four years ago, serving in Vietnam and killing people was an honorable matter for a Democrat presidential candidate, and in fact, was a major portion of his qualifications and credentials.

[North Dallas Thirty]

"Wise people conclude that sitting on the same school board with a guy who was a leftist radical when you were eight, and living in the same city as an anti-Semite who also just happens to be your same skin color, and simply being both "a politician" and "from Chicago" does not instantly tar your credentials."

But, when said leftist terrorist not only refuses to repudiate his behavior, but continues to insist that he did the right thing -- and then receive hundreds of millions of dollars in grant money to teach his same racist philosophies in Chicago public schools -- then it does so rather nicely.

Obama knew what Ayers had done, that Ayers still thought it was right, that Ayers wished he had done more, and that Ayers was still teaching the same radical leftist behavior -- and then supported him teaching it to more children.

Probably because Obama didn't see any difference between what he was clapping and cheering for every Sunday and Ayers's philosophy.

"Convinced that all whites were born tainted with the original sin of “skin privilege,” the fighting brigade of the New Left internalized racialist thinking as hatred of their own whiteness. “All white babies are pigs,” declared one Weatherman. On one occasion the feminist poet Robin Morgan was breast-feeding her son at the offices of the radical journal Rat. A Weatherwoman saw this and told her, “You have no right to have that pig male baby.” “How can you say that?” Morgan asked. “What should I do?” “Put it in the garbage,” the Weatherwoman answered.

Bernadine Dohrn [Ayers' wife], an acid-loving University of Chicago law student turned revolutionary, reflected the widespread New Left fascination with the serial-killing hippie Übermensch Charles Manson. “Dig It! First they killed those pigs, then they ate dinner in the same room with them, they even shoved a fork into a victim’s stomach! Wild!” In appreciation, her Weather Underground cell made a three-fingered “fork” gesture its official salute."

http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=ZWEwNWI4ZmU1N2E1OGVlZWIwZjVjNmQ2NWIwMzRlOGM=

Next:

"I do love how McCain's endorsement by Pastor Haggie has fallen by the wayside while the Reverend Wright connection lives on."

Probably because McCain didn't spend twenty years clapping and cheering in a pew of Hagee's church, name Hagee as his spiritual advisor, quote Hagee extensively in his books, and make Hagee part of his campaign staff and advisors.

Aside from the obvious, of course.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/05/22/mccain-rejects-hagee-endo_n_103143.html

Next:

"And I'm amazed at how Obama's most tenuous connections with even the most mainstream Islamic groups makes him a bomb-throwing terrorist, while McCain gets celebrated for going off to Vietnam to fly missions in which he actually bombed people."

Funny, four years ago, serving in Vietnam and killing people was an honorable matter for a Democrat presidential candidate, and in fact, was a major portion of his qualifications and credentials.

[chris]

Geez, posting that long, ponderous crap once is bad enough. But twice??? Ugh.

[North Dallas Thirty]

"Dallas, you fail again. That's not even an actual investigative report. It's an opinion column. They couldn't get FOX News journalists to touch this smear with a ten foot pole, because it would be debunked in an instant."

Or so the Obamabot claims.

http://www.newsweek.com/id/162403

"And we've got yet another editorial. No actual links to facts or evidence. Just wild conjecture."

So you are now denying that Obama ever supported public funding or said that it was a good thing.

Try again.

No one denies that McCain is taking public funding. They are just pointing out the hypocrisy of Obama claiming that public funding is a bad thing after his years of demanding support for it.

"Sweet baby Jesus in a blender, what are you smoking?"

The Obama campaign is involved in astroturfing -- that is, paying bloggers and commentors to spread statements in order to influence public opinion. Including the claim that Trig Palin is not Sarah Palin's baby and that Todd Palin is having incestuous sex with his daughters, as spread by Andrew Sullivan and the DailyKos.

http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/content/mar2008/db20080314_121054.htm

[neelynzus]

Islamowhatzis wrote: "I do love how McCain's endorsement by Pastor Haggie (sic.) has fallen by the wayside while the Reverend Wright connection lives on."

On the other hand, we don't love the moral equivalence practiced by Obot featherheads. Rev. Hagee was not McCain's pastor for twenty years. McCain may never have attended a service in his church and while Hagee was certainly preaching against the doctrines of Catholicism, he was neither racist nor anti-American.

Perhaps a better comparison would be Louis Farrakhan, although Hagee cannot touch Farrakhan for hatefulness and bigotry. Farrakhan recently called Obama "the messiah." http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OowxMcVTjTE

The willfully ignorant cognitive dissonants for Obama are rising up on Riehl World View!

[Andy B]

IslamoLlama and jaime, aside from just being plain dumb, are caricatures of what Obama supporters are like.

They just know how clever they think they are and how stupid they think we are, but all the while haven't a clue of what they are talking about.

You can point out to them that Obama is friends with Timothy Mcveigh and they wouldn't care. Oh, wait...Bill Ayers is Timothy Mcveigh.

That's right. Bill Ayers is exactly the kind of terrorist Timothy Mcveigh was. Mind you, Mcveigh's body count is higher, but they are both domestic terrorist.

So I suppose Barack Hussein Obama would have no problem serving on a board with Timothy Mcveigh.

What say you, IslamoLlama and jaime?

[mary]

Not for anything but I knew several people in college aspiring to a political career and it was amazing to watch them watch three p's and q's. They made sure that they had no negative associations and were on the good side of everyone. These were the guys and girls who never once in all 4 years were so drunk they couldn't walk home. They would even say "I want to go into politics and I want to make sure that they can't dig up anything negative about me from my college years." So why wouldn't this guy be thinking like this, he is a lawyer after all, from Harvard, no less.

[whiteandblackmixed]

"That's right. Bill Ayers is exactly the kind of terrorist Timothy Mcveigh was. Mind you, Mcveigh's body count is higher, but they are both domestic terrorist."

And furthermore, it was Bill Ayers who just gutted my 401K.......no wait.

[North Dallas Thirty]

Ah, we see, whiteandblackmixed; you don't care what someone does as long as they don't gut your 401(k). Therefore, in the eyes of supporters of Obama like yourself, the only crime committed on 9/11 was the fact that stock prices fell.

If you really want to know who gutted your 401(k), you might talk to the Obamamessiah who, as an ACORN lawyer, filed lawsuits forcing banks to extend credit to people who were bad risks, whose campaign finance chair Penny Pritzker is a subprime mortgage banker whose bank collapse cost thousands of people their savings, who demanded that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac take on and securitize even more risky mortgages in the name of "affordable housing", who opposed additional regulation on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac when George Bush and John McCain were calling for it in 2003 and 2005, and who rewarded Fannie CEO Franklin Raines and Freddie CEO Jim Johnson with cushy advisor positions on his campaign after their accounting manipulations and foolish decisions led to each company's collapse and subsequent bailout at enormous taxpayer expense.

Put differently, when the two financial institutions that control nearly half of the total mortgage liability of the United States collapse due to excessive risk and mismanagement, that has a LOT to do with your 401(k). But of course, you don't care about that, because it was the directive of leftists like Obama that these institutions buy up risky loans and securitize them, even though there were ample warning signals that that was a bad idea.

[neelynzus]

"And furthermore, it was Bill Ayers who just gutted my 401K.......no wait."

No wait ... It was Barney Frank, Chris Dodd, Franklin Raines, Jim Johnson and Frank's pals on the House Financial Services Committee who attacked the auditors in 2004 who reported that Fannie's books had been cooked. Let's see. Those were Democrats weren't they. And when the great Oblahblah got to the Senate, he just looked the other way, as he always has done, and took $126,000 from Fannie and Freddie for doing so. S-o-o-o the first pop was $200 billion and the death of Wachovia.

Econ 101, over the heads of the Obots who want the foxes in the henhouse.

[jaime]

So this is essentially your soft sell of the "it's the minorities' fault" Bad loans to minorities was a drop in the bucket in the housing crisis and you know it. But whatever, dark skinned people to this day make great scapegoats.

"death of Wachovia."

They're still well enough to loan the Republican Party 8 million dollars.