McCain Did Fine, While Obama Smirked

As I didn't go in looking for some type of knock out punch, I thought McCain did what he had to do, most especially drawing contrasts with his more conservative approach to government, versus Obama's typical Democrat mantra of tax and spend.

And I don't believe Obama helped himself to look presidential by constantly displaying a smirk when he was off camera. By no means did McCain win any election tonight. However, Obama didn't win one, either. I do believe McCain did what he had to do and Obama did not. It's still a race.

Was there anything upon which Obama didn't want to spend more money? We spend more on education than anyone else - Obamas' solution? Spend more. Unfortunately, McCain did miss many opportunities to make some excellent points. Obama squandered millions with the Annenberg challenge and did not impact education one bit. McCain is not good in these debates, that's clear.

But he wasn't bad, either. And with many voters holding on to reservations about Obama, if McCain can continue to frame this election in terms of liberal versus conservative thought, he at least has a chance to make it close and possibly even win.

Along with that if media begins to focus on Obama as a prospective President, I don't think it will help his numbers very much. He usually suffers when the focus is on him. Add in any potential last minute revelations about some of Obama's past associations and political leanings, and I'm not going to be pessimistic unless I see some immediate contrary movement in the polls.

Comments

[Lala]

Here's a review of the debate (I didn't watch it)

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27184386/

[SacTownMan]

I vote for Joe the Plumber for a cabinet post!

[mark l.]

people don't remember debates, so much as they remember lines...

"if you wanted to run against bush, you should have run four years ago" is a classic. bad delivery by mac? It doesn't matter becuase when people recite it, the listener imagines what it sounded like. must repeat it often...

the bush push theory has its own dilemma for dems-

If an incumbent has better than a 50% favorability, he wins reelection. McCain is at 53%.

A critic might point to the fact that Obama has a higher rating, but it begs the question-if he is viewed so favorably, why doesn't the number carry over in many of the polls of actual choices that have obama by a heavy margin?

I really believe that McCain will eclipse the bush total vote of 62 million by 12%, he gets 69.5-70 million.

The dems will need to get an 18% increase to get 70 million.

I thought 2004 was a 'maxed out' year for dems-it was the height of anti-war fever, and it produced a similar social anxiety to what we face over the economy...59 million may have been a high watermark. The dems would have done better at turning conservatives rather than obsess over voter turnout. They failed in the former, and stumbled over an acorn in the latter.

final popular vote?
mccain 69.2 million, obama 65 million.

[Joe]

The elitists, even on Fox, are saying Obama won. One question: what channel were they watching? The Lifetime Channel? I can do without the instant analysis. Whoever one thinks won tonight within the confines of the debate, some of McCain's points may resonate long after tonight, especially the Joe the Plumber comments. Hopefully McCain's points about Bill Ayers, and Obama's pathetic attempts to "set the record straight", will smoke out the MSM and get them to do some more digging, if they can give the swooning a rest long enough.

[mary]

I think it boils down to the lawyer versus the sailor. Do you want the lawyer helping you on this sinking ship of a nation or the sailor? I worry about our country. I watch the MSM and hear people's comments and then I turn to those around me and double check what I know I heard with my own two ears. Yes, the media is that convincing.

What frightens me the most are two things. The first being BO's seeming anger about trade agreements. It reminds me of his dogged dislike for Pakistan In regards to trade agreements when he said he was going to "tell" communist China anything we all laughed. That made us all worry, not just about his approach to foreign policy but about his understanding of our economy. Suffice it to say, we are in no position to demand anything from communist China. And, Bo's party has put us in this tenuous position with the help of dear old Alan Greenspan and the boys from MIT who worked down Wall Street.

The second thing that bothered me was how easily BO lies. We know the truths about ACORN, we know our suspicions about Ayres and we know he beautifully lured McCain into the trap he and his "team" so deftly set.

The other thing that bothers me is the fact that McCain was lured into voting for the pork filled bill, probably through a gentleman's agreement with Obama. Now, we all heard BO say that he would consider taking only the government funds, we now know "the rest of the story", as usual, he lied and never contacted Senator McCain who acted in good faith. BO has outspent everyone with his negative ads and the American people faced with the financial crisis of their lifetimes don't seem to notice or care that this money could be being used towards better, more appropriate things. I'm sure McCain is running out of money, just at a time when BO is producing lie filled television programs to placate the masses who want so desperately to believe that the world of change is better than the world that is real.

I wish I had screen shots of BO's campaign web pages that would show how his ideas have changed and morphed as he has gone along. I wish I could make my fellow Americans realize that with John McCain they may have a chance for capitalism and democracy but with BO I'm really believing that we will see Socialism and Communism in our lifetime. I am an independent but more and more as I read and learn, as I make my own connections that I do not dare write online, I worry about our country if this BO, whoever he really is, wins the presidency.

BTW, BO will, in this global economy, raise taxes on corporations and they will leave this country at a record clip. So then how is he going to create American jobs? Business is not stupid. And Business sadly is not Patriotic. When you realize that an elected president is raising your taxes you are going to relocate to South America or south east asia where your people can live well and your company can thrive and where you are not taxed to death but welcomed and treated royally. Then what is BO going to do with all those out of work auto and oil workers?

[jharp]

If an incumbent has better than a 50% favorability, he wins reelection. McCain is at 53%.

Posted by: mark l. | Wednesday, October 15, 2008 at 11:52 PM

News to me that McCain is an incumbent and that he has a 53% favourabilty rating.

Link?

And McCain didn't do fine. He lost according to the pollsters.

And what else matters?

And you are a lying jackass.

[mary]

"He lost according to the pollsters."

Ah, but it is the people who vote, isn't it. So, with God's help that we are able to ferret out the cheaters, we will have an election and the people will elect the president, not the pollsters. So, for Senator Obama, even though he declared himself the next president tonight and instructed the state media to push only the talking points he sent out, we still have to have an election. Unless of course, he wants to start his banana republic early and have a coupe. Before I would not have thought that possible, now, after tonight, I'm not that sure.

[Lucy]

A debate should not be judged by who won or who lost. Lets look at the content that was discussed. It to me was a draw. McCain did get in some good punches however.
McCain finally spanked Obama on AYERS AND ACORN... As usual Obama did not answer the question. He never does ! Ho hum. Every time I see him on TV I think of that old song...Smooth Operator. He is indeed smooth and ever so overly convincing to whoever falls for his BS. His arrogance is astounding to me.
I read the Wall street article in this post. Rove is pretty much right on.
People need to vote on November 4. Polls are fishy just like everything else is in Obama's court. The polls are trying really hard to make McCain supporters stay home on voting day by fudging the numbers and doing it unfairly when they take there polls. I know it you know it but I sure hope the voting public for McCain will know it.
Meanwhile Obama blames Fox news for him not being up by 3 more points in the polls. See article here.

http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/10/15/obama-nyt-interview/

NYT: Obama Laments Media Image, Says FOX News Cost Him in Polls
Barack Obama riffs on his media image in an interview for the New York Times Magazine, which quotes him as suggesting FOX News has cost him a few points in the polls.

The interview with reporter Matt Bai, to be published Sunday, features the Democratic presidential candidate feeling lamenting a "media narrative" that has pigeon-holed him as a liberal stereotype.

"I am convinced that if there were no Fox News, I might be two or three points higher in the polls," Obama says in the article. "If I were watching Fox News, I wouldn't vote for me, right? Because the way I'm portrayed 24/7 is as a freak!"

He continues that he is being typecast as "the latte-sipping, New York Times-reading, Volvo-driving, no-gun-owning, effet, politically correct, arrogant liberal. Who wants somebody like that?"

Obama's reference to his poll numbers comes at a time when he has opened up a commanding lead over his rival, John McCain, in national polls, as well as in several battleground states. A recent New York Times poll puts Obama ahead by 14 percentage points.

In the New York Times Magazine article, Obama tries to explain a comment he made during his primary race against Hillary Clinton, during which he was quoted as saying to an audience in San Francisco that some working class voters "cling to guns or religion" in response to economic woes.

Obama calls that comment "my biggest boneheaded move," adding that his point was to say that "these voters have a right to be frustrated" and their concerns shouldn't be ignored.

New York Times article looks at Obama's attempts to court working-class voters
Article here they are speaking of here.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/19/magazine/19obama-t.html?_r=3&hp=&oref=slogin&pagewanted=print&oref=slogin

[Worst President Ever]

McCain? Put a fork in him, he's done. He's been a lousy candidate running an even worse campaign. He can't even figure out who he should be talking to - he has to win a majority of independent voters to win the election but he ends up talking about esotorica like Ayres and Acorn that independents don't care about. And even when those issues were brought up, Obama got the best of him on them. And he definitely alienated lots of women when he dissed any concern about their health.

It's gonna be an Obama landslide - fair and square!

[Lucy]

Worst President Ever, sorry "MY FREIND" only in your dreams will Obama win in a landslide. So...dream on !! McCain will in by a narrow margin but what counts he will win !! McCain/Palin 08

[Lucy]

Posted by: mary | Thursday, October 16, 2008 at 12:30 AM

Great points and a good post. Thanks !
---------------------------------------
Posted by: mark l. | Wednesday, October 15, 2008 at 11:52 PM

Thanks Mark !! I agree
---------------------------------------
Posted by: jharp | Thursday, October 16, 2008 at 12:37 AM

jharp...Take your harp and get on your Donkey and ride ride ride. You and your jackass. Maybe my Elephant will meet you along the way and squash your ass. LOL

Put that in your crack pipe and smoke it !

[mary]

Maybe Fox news is the only news organization that couldn't be bullied by him and his army of attorneys.

[mary]

Re watch the debate, when he is looking into the camera, ostensibly speaking to the American people he is blinking up a storm and can't look straight into the camera. At least McCain can look directly into the camera and he didn't smirk like the kid who stuffed the ballot box in middle school and knew his opponent, the geek, was going down. Not fairly.

[mary]

This is a post to the yahoo finance board for apple stock. This poster has been posting for a long time and is an "apple long". I was very impressed with his post, so I thought I would bring it here to share it with all of you:

" I AM the "middle class" 16-Oct-08 12:56 am hizdog2000 Male
I had a great job paying $72,500 per year in salary, and another $22,500 in benefits that I was downsized out of.

After I was downsized, I couldn't find another position in my field that payed as well locally, so I took what I could get.

I took 1 full time position that paid $13.60 per hour ($28,200 anually), 1 second job delivering pizza's 4 NIGHTS a week that paid about $200 per week ($10,400 annually), and 1 third job 3 nights a week that paid $8.50 per hour ($2650 annually).

I've raised my own son from the age of 3 (he's 20 now and attending PAID for by US college) with no "help" whatsoever, and no "benefits" (welfare, free lunch at school, food stamps, etc) unless I provided them for he and I.

I pay my bills, I buy our clothes, I pay my taxes, I buy groceries, keep my home, and even took a vacation to Florida last April.

This hasn't been easy, but nobody ever said it was going to be or SHOULD be. I worked for it, and I'm proud of that.

I do NOT want the Democrats/Obama's redistribution of wealth, I do NOT want food stamps, I do NOT want socialized health care, I don't need the feds coming in with a moratorium on foreclosure, and I do NOT wan the federal government interferring with my life or lifesyle.

I AM the middle class of America, and I can do very nicely on my own with my OWN work ethic, my OWN drive and my
OWN ambition.

I would MUCH rather have a "do-nothing" Republican in office than a "we're here to help - it's not your fault" Democrat in either Congress OR the White House. Nor do I need any of those fraudulent democratic "get out the vote" organizations such as ACORN (Ever notice how they don't register REPUBLICAN voters), or the likes of Alec Baldwin or Susan Serandon trashing MY President.

Oh - I am also a large shareholder in APPL (6,100 shares) that I started accumulating at about $8.00/share and now, my average purchase price per share is $35.683/share.

Stop your whining and get to work if you want to make anything out of your life. If you don't - it's your OWN fault! "

http://tinyurl.com/3kvx4r

[LOL]

I predict 350+ electoral votes for obama

[BobinStamford]

Wow, mary's rags to riches story should be a Lifetime Orignal Movie. Ah yes, Valerie Bertinelli as mary. Memorable scenes to include Ms. Bertinelli delivering pizza and confirming trades on Ameritrade. There will be big ratings for a story about a hard-working pizza-delivering patriot with a nose for finance!

I smell Emmy!

[skeptical]

"if McCain can continue to frame this election in terms of liberal versus conservative thought, he at least has a chance to make it close and possibly even win."

That's because people are hungering for a change of direction after--a conservative in the White House.

"If an incumbent has better than a 50% favorability, he wins reelection. McCain is at 53%."

Yes, he wins Arizona.

"I think it boils down to the lawyer versus the sailor. Do you want the lawyer helping you on this sinking ship of a nation or the sailor?"

Um, the sailor who has spent the last thirty years playing Washington politics, or the one who crashed all those planes?

You guys are fun. It's hard to imagine what his campaign volunteers are telling themselves (not just because there are so few). Now I see it. They look at the polling numbers--for Arizona.

[Spartan112]

"McCain finally spanked Obama on AYERS AND ACORN... As usual Obama did not answer the question"

Ummm, yeah he did. You just didn't like the answer.

Obama was smooth and presidential while McCain was a grumpy old coot who blinked, wheezed and licked his lips like a snake throughout the debate.

[Spartan112]

Re watch the debate, when he is looking into the camera, ostensibly speaking to the American people he is blinking up a storm and can't look straight into the camera. At least McCain can look directly into the camera and he didn't smirk like the kid who stuffed the ballot box in middle school and knew his opponent, the geek, was going down. Not fairly.

Posted by: mary |

Mary did you watch the debate? McCain blinks so much that I was concerned he was having a seizure.

[BobinStamford]

When Grandpa ANGRILY said that he didn't care about a washed-up old terrorist I thought a good headline for Drudge, if he wasn't a log-cabin hero, would have been: Washed-Up Old Senator Does Not Care About Washed-up Old Terrorist.

Grandpa needs a vacation!

[Befair]

Did we see the same debate - did we see the same candidates. Obama won the debate and will be elected IMO. McCain sat like a puffed up Pillsbury Doughboy while Obama was speaking - with that nasty-ass smile that makes him look so goofy. Obama's reaction when he smiled was more genuine and yes, McCain looked so much like an old fool, that it was something to smile at (note I do not say laugh at - but he is who he is and is 72 years old to boot). Ah well, I am a lonely voice in this forest, and I am still not making a firm commitment. Which, by the way - since when can't a candidate change their mind - what one feels 6 months, a year ago can certainly change what with the changes in the world as we knew it at the time. That is precisely why I chose not to vote early, but at this point, it would take an awful lot to lead me to vote for McCain.

[seekeronos]

"---

"if McCain can continue to frame this election in terms of liberal versus conservative thought, he at least has a chance to make it close and possibly even win."

That's because people are hungering for a change of direction after--a conservative in the White House.

---"

News Flash: Bush is NOT a conservative. At best, he was a centre-right moderate, and part of the ex-Trotskyite faction of liberals that call themselves "neo-conservatives".

McCain represents, at the very least, a move toward RIGHT change. Not as much as I would like, as Dr. Ron Paul's ideas are very much "the change we need", but certainly better than what that low down crypto-communist Obama promises.

"---

"If an incumbent has better than a 50% favorability, he wins reelection. McCain is at 53%."

Yes, he wins Arizona.

---"

Maybe so, maybe not. McCain may well close the gap between himself and the Great Zero. We will just have to wait until after 4. November, n'est ce pas?

"---

"I think it boils down to the lawyer versus the sailor. Do you want the lawyer helping you on this sinking ship of a nation or the sailor?"

Um, the sailor who has spent the last thirty years playing Washington politics, or the one who crashed all those planes?

---"

Better a sailor to help right a sinking ship, than a dirty, latte-sipping effete commie lawyer who will jump ship like the rest of the rats.

And before you get too critical of Sen. McCain's combat record, I'd like to see how well you'd do after a plane crash and five-plus years in the Hanoi Hilton.

[Spartan112]

Someone kept track...McCain blinked some 3000 times during the 90min debate. Can he have his name legally changed to Blinky McBlinkerton?

[seekeronos]

"--- Ah well, I am a lonely voice in this forest, and I am still not making a firm commitment. ---"

Art thou truly uncommitted, Befair?

"--- ...but at this point, it would take an awful lot to lead me to vote for McCain. ---"

If you are considering your choices between only McCain and Obama, as most people are... then it seems pretty obvious that your mind is already made up. If it would take you an "awful lot" to vote for one of two painfully available choices, it follows then that it would be relatively easier to vote for his opponent.

However, to "be fair" and to give you the benefit of the doubt... you've said not a jot or a tittle about voting for Bob Barr, Cynthia McKinney, Ralph Nader, or the Rev. Dr. Chuck Baldwin -- all of whom are candidates worth looking into.

And if I may be so bold, let me line out where these four stand:

Barr (L) -- former CIA chief (like G.H.W. Bush '41) and congressman from Georgia. Was a Repubbie, but hopped on the Libertarian bandwagon, likely to help increase their market share, as well as have a reasonable chance of spoiling the vote for the (R) candidate and steal away the bulk of Ron Paul's supporters. He's got (or borrowed) a lot of Dr. Paul's ideas for free market primacy, reduced government spending and reduction of our military missions overseas... but his relative "insiderness" leaves some Libertarians a bit leery of him. He was nominated after five rounds of nominations.

McKinney (G) -- another former Georgia congresswoman, I seem to recal a detail about her smacking some DC policeman when he requested to see her credentials to get into the capitol or some such thing. Very, very, very liberal. Like Maxine Waters-crazy socialist liberal. Running on the Green Party ticket, and thinks that Obama "isn't progressive enough". Not likely to spoil much of the Democratic vote, but one can hope, no?

Nader (I) -- A perennial Green Party favourite, now running as an Independent. He has a likely chance of pulling liberals away from the Dems and the Greens. Smart guy, though I definitely do not agree with the bulk of his platform.

Baldwin (C) -- Ran on the Constitution Party ticket in 2004 as VP with Mike Peroutka. Dr. Baldwin is a pastor and a respected paleo-conservative in the mould of Dr. Ron Paul. Though he is Christian, he is also a federalist, and believes in minimally intrusive government. He is very much opposed to our involvement in foreign wars, and the obscene spending our government does. He is also the ultimate Washington outsider (compared to all the other candidates excluding Ralph Nader, who have all served in Congress as either (D)s or (R)s at some point.

I hope that you, Befair... are considering ALL of your options instead of only the two major party twits.

[seekeronos]

"--- Can he have his name legally changed to Blinky McBlinkerton? ---"

Only if you do likewise for Madam Pelosi:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0O0wl_UaU8

(and I seem to notice that Obama-wan-Zerobi was quite the blinkmaster too)

[Day 48, After Sarah]

The media hasn't picked up on the Obama Doctrine. That's where Obama asserted that 'United States foreign policy and economic interests are subservient to Columbian union organizers.'

Can we assume that this is official Democratic policy as well?

Wonder if an Obama Administration will give foreign aid to pay for trade unionists' bodyguards? I think yes, they will.

[Spartan112]

"And before you get too critical of Sen. McCain's combat record, I'd like to see how well you'd do after a plane crash and five-plus years in the Hanoi Hilton."

Don't sell him short, shouldn't that be "how well you'd do after FIVE plane crashes..."

[BobinStamford]

"a dirty, latte-sipping effete commie lawyer"

Such angry, hateful talk from a devout servant of JESUS. Better not take the haapu gaijin out in a thunderstorm, patriot!

[riggword]

Obama smirks, lies, stammers; Nobody Cares!

https://riggword.wordpress.com/

[hdtv]

McCain blinks alot, more than Obama. Same happened in the other debates. On issues where McCain is freelancing, he blinks up a storm.

But, btw each had an air conditioning vent placed over them so they didn't do the nixon
(?) sweat, so both should be blinking a bit more than usual.

Obama had packaged answers as expected. McCain should have left it alone. He didn't get anything out of it other than turning away a few voters.

[Spartan112]

"I hope that you, Befair... are considering ALL of your options instead of only the two major party twits."

Yeah why limit yourself when there's all sorts of twits out there...hell, write one in.

"Only if you do likewise for Madam Pelosi:"

Was she at the debate last night?

[Totally Heterosexual Conservative]

"McCain finally spanked Obama on AYERS AND ACORN... As usual Obama did not answer the question"

Hilarious. Except for the part where he answered the question, right? You just didn't like how Obama made the old fool look like a petty loser (which of course he is). I hope McCain keeps "spanking" it over Ayers and ACORN for the next 3 weeks.

[mary]

Micehlle's butt is growing exponentially, we all wondered if it is stress eating?

[chris]

Damn, that old coot looked frustrated and tired last night. He's clearly waaay past his prime and too old and unstable for the job.

[chris]

Micehlle's butt is growing exponentially, we all wondered if it is stress eating?

Considering that you seem to spend every waking hour sitting on your ass posting nonsense, I bet you look great too.

[Spartan112]

"Micehlle's butt is growing exponentially, we all wondered if it is stress eating?"

If you're going to insult her "butt" why don't you at least spell her name right. Besides what does this have to do with anything? You don't hear anyone here talking about how Cindy's face look like you stretched bleached leather out over a Halloween skull do you?

[mary]

I watched the debate, the same debate you watched but I watched it with an objective eye, not the brainwashed eye you watched it with. And, I reposted from another board, it's not my "rags to riches" story but then again only you O supporters don't know how to read. The scary part is that by criticizing that guy's heartfelt post you are essentially putting down everyday garden variety Americans. That theme runs through your campaign. You think you are the "elite" and you have even claimed the election already and you are planning an enormous party to which everyone who is anyone wants an invite. It will be interesting watching this guy entertain on the people's money while the people are suffering through a possible deep recession.

[Spartan112]

Your eyes might be open but it's hard to see through a blindfold Mary. Do you keep your objective eye in a jar by your bed?

[mary]

I actually feel bad for her. She is seething inside, she wants to be out there campaigning but the internal polls say that most people notice the "militancy" within her and so they had to closet her like hillary closeted bill in the end. Besides Michelle has her hands full. She has to deal with all the affair rumors that she probably never would have known about if he hadn't decided to run for prez.

You know Cindy McCain is who she is. She is her own woman. Honestly, if John McCain tried to closet her he would be in for one heck of a fight. Cindy has her own interests apart from him, sure they are married but you get the impression that she doesn't define herself by him.

With Michelle you get the impression that she defines herself by Barack. I know I know Princeton, Harvard law, a very well paying job but there is truly something missing there. She does define herself by Barack. That is frightening.

women like Cindy and Sarah scare the crap out of women like Michelle because they are real women, living real lives, sort of the epitome of why the women's movement was a success and women like Michelle become a stark contrast against them.

[chris]

"She has to deal with all the affair rumors that she probably never would have known about if he hadn't decided to run for prez."

You mean grandpa, right??

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/21/us/politics/21mccain.html?_r=2&hp=&adxnnl=1&oref=slogin&adxnnlx=1203602719-kwTOxxzq0Fm9IdCgBgSIiQ&oref=slogin

[mary]

I think that the Senator may have to worry. The followers may be starting to come out of their self induced coma. He's right everyone has seen him for two years in a country where 15 minutes is enough. As they see, more and more, in the next three weeks there is a chance they will just simply decide that they are sick of him and vote for someone else.

Can't wait for the books to come out analyzing his campaign, that is if he doesn't pass laws banning any criticism of himself in any form. this is te first campaign run by "the fringe" and it should provide a lot of fodder for the historians. "How the New Robin Hood and His Gay Band of Merry Men Stole the American Presidency" (trademark)(have to copyright to protect myself from Doris you know)

[mary]

Spartan112, he started losing me when I saw the very strident Pakistan comments, I began to worry that we have a closet war hawk here. But then, last night, with the comments about China he told me two things 1. He doesn't know what he doesn't know and that, in a president can prove very dangerous. 2. as week as he is on foreign policy, he is weaker on understanding how the economy works.

[templar knight]

To expect a bunch of liberals to give an objective view of the debate is like, well....finding a virgin in a brothel, to borrow an expression. The same bunch of liberal sockpuppets are here, Dan. You would only have to ban two of them to rid yourself of the whole bunch. What a bunch of Leftist clowns! LOL.

And mary, I noticed(how could you miss it?) that ghetto butt on Michelle from the get-go. Has nothing to do with overeating, just in her genetics. As an aside, it's going to to be interesting watching the liberals in the big cities get mugged, raped and murdered in droves, all because their vote for Obama empowered the thugs. Conservatives in big cities should move to red states or smaller red cities in blue states, if they already haven't.

[chris]

Laugh on, angry private-school-booster. The real comedy comes on 11/5. Wouldn't want to be in Mexico Norte then!!

[Spartan112]

"With Michelle you get the impression that she defines herself by Barack. I know I know Princeton, Harvard law, a very well paying job but there is truly something missing there. She does define herself by Barack. That is frightening."

You really are full of BS aren't you? Michelle Obama is as fiercely independent as Hillary Clinton, and that's what scares you about her.

"And mary, I noticed(how could you miss it?) that ghetto butt on Michelle from the get-go. Has nothing to do with overeating, just in her genetics."

Holy Jimmy "The Greek" Batman..."Ghetto Butt"??? Nice...do you have David Duke on speed dial?

[Spartan112]

"as week as he is on foreign policy, he is weaker on understanding how the economy works."

Meadow muffins. He has a much firmer grasp on the economy than McCain. McCain talked in circles last night because he couldn't keep his own talking points straight.

[Worst President Ever]

Same old Tem; - still a racist.

Maybe you'd be happier knowing what undecided Independents and Republicans thought:

The group of 50 uncommitted voters should have at least been receptive to McCain—Republicans and Independents outnumbered Democrats in the group by almost 4 to 1, and they started the evening with much warmer responses to McCain than to his Democratic opponent, Barack Obama. But by the time it was all over, so few of them had declared their support for McCain that there weren’t enough for Greenberg to separate them into a post-debate focus group. Meanwhile, the Obama supporters had to assemble in two different rooms to keep their discussion groups manageable.

http://www.time-blog.com/swampland/2008/10/undecideds_laughing_at_not_wit.html

But my guess is you'll find a way to discount this and that McCain's goint to WIN WIN WIN>

[Befair]

women like Cindy and Sarah scare the crap out of women like Michelle because they are real women, living real lives, sort of the epitome of why the women's movement was a success and women like Michelle become a stark contrast against them.

Posted by: mary | Thursday, October 16, 2008 at 10:12 AM

You ARE kidding, right?

[Befair]

Seeker - thanks for the curriculum vitae for the others running. I AM an independent from a swing state. When I pull the lever, I will have determined that I do NOT want the other party to win. Therefore, at that point, I would not want to waste even 1 vote - especially mine. Bob Barr and Ralph Nadar are absolutely unacceptable to me on any level, and I think it is too bad that we only have these two clowns (M & O) that are truly viable candidates. I really do mean, however, thanks for your post.

[mary]

Apartan, to say she is as "fiercely independent" as hillary doesn't make it so. But you do bring up a good point. she will want to partake in a "joint presidency" thinking her law degree give her gravitas. Oh, he will have his hands full.

I think she is not even a tenth of the woman both Cindy and Sarah are and I'll even throw hillary in there too. As the days go by, maybe just maybe, old Michelle will wake up and find out how marginalized he has made her but, then again, the goal is the presidency and she wrongly thinks she is doing it for the good of the campaign. She doesn't realize that after he wins she will be even more marginalized.