I Guess Joe's Right

So, infamous Joe the Plumber says he is scared for America if Obama wins?

Joe the Plumber all but came out of the water closet for Sen. John McCain on Friday, saying that his famous exchange with Sen. Barack Obama made him "scared for America" and that he doesn't trust the Democratic presidential candidate on taxes.

It's a bit more complex than that. Let's see - death threats to a pollster for showing a result Progressives didn't like.  A campaign that has no problem tossing a reporter off the bus if they produce something they don't like. I guess the media will let that pass. I've come to the conclusion that it isn't ideology or business concerns that is driving much of the media bias. It's their desire for a compelling story, a great headline.

They want so badly to write the headline "America Elects First Black President" in their lifetimes, they will stop at nothing in achieving that end. But I don't know that Obama is really the one to be scared of. He isn't dumb.

Biden would be off the ticket in four years if the Dems win. Obama likely will try and annoint a successor. And they could be good for America if Obama moderates because he wants to keep his job. If, driven by his own desire to be "great," he does that - where does all this liberal hate and rage go then?

That could end up being a more significant threat to America than Obama's tax policy. Capital can flee and come back. Business people can speed up, or back off out of prudence driving the economy into the tank. But only for so long, until we elect a new government. Presidents can be un-elected.

A newly emerged and unhinged Progressive mind-set built upon the rubble of people who have bombed their own country in the past is a far more untidy mess to clean up.

Comments

[Lala]

Oh, sorry, I forgot to give the link for the pension grab

http://www.financialsense.com/editorials/duarte/2008/1023.html

[jharp]

So what's a better return?

-40% or +3%

Even though your entire claim is utter nonsense.

[North Dallas Thirty]

"Even that number is grossly exaggerated, because it excludes what people pay through the payroll tax."

Of course, the leftists like jharp try to claim that the payroll tax is income tax, even though it's specifically stated that the payroll tax is payment for Social Security and Medicare.

However, if Obama wanted to cut the payroll tax for workers, he could do that. Instead, he offers "tax credits" that are worth more than what these people, who already aren't paying income tax, are paying in payroll taxes. In addition, he's unfunding Social Security and Medicare by giving these people money up front and ALSO allowing them to later claim Social Security and Medicare benefits.

Welfare check.

Furthermore, what about seniors who aren't working? Obama says they won't pay income tax, and since they aren't working, they won't pay payroll tax -- but they'll still get these tax credits.

Welfare check.

[jharp]

"It's a bit more complex than that. Let's see - death threats to a pollster for showing a result Progressives didn't like."

The Ohio State Highway Patrol arrested a 51-year-old Columbus man late today in connection with last Friday's telephone death threat against Democratic Secretary of State Jennifer Brunner, Ohio's top election officer.
Dana McArtor(a registered Republican) of Riviera Court was charged with intimidation, a third-degree felony, according to Lt. Tony Bradshaw.

[North Dallas Thirty]

"So what's a better return?

-40% or +3%

Even though your entire claim is utter nonsense."

The average return on the stock market over time is 7% -- which includes dips like this and skyrocketing years like 2003 - 2007.

This is why I don't believe Barack Obama listens to Warren Buffett at all -- because Barack Obama is apparently under the delusion that Warren Buffett's entire fortune comes from investing with a less than 3% annual return.

And as far as utter nonsense, read the committee report. The committee wants to abolish the private 401(k) system and its tax benefits, and mandate that retirement accounts be run through the government.

[jharp]

Now one of John McCain's actual advisers has switched sides:

Charles Fried, a professor at Harvard Law School, has long been one of the most important conservative thinkers in the United States. Under President Reagan, he served, with great distinction, as Solicitor General of the United States. Since then, he has been prominently associated with several Republican leaders and candidates, most recently John McCain, for whom he expressed his enthusiastic support in January.

This week, Fried announced that he has voted for Obama-Biden by absentee ballot. In his letter to Trevor Potter, the General Counsel to the McCain-Palin campaign, he asked that his name be removed from the several campaign-related committees on which he serves. In that letter, he said that chief among the reasons for his decision "is the choice of Sarah Palin at a time of deep national crisis."

Now I really must leave or I'll be late.

[North Dallas Thirty]

Hence the difference. Republicans who are charged with death threats are caught and prosecuted by other Republicans, as they should be; Obama supporters who make death threats are excused by leftists like jharp.

Also keep in mind what jharp and his fellow Obama supporters are doing here:

"Dan, could you do the world a favor?

Sometime after Obama wins the Presidency and you decide to kill yourself, would you please videotape it and post it somewhere. There are many who would enjoy watching that."

http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2008/10/bull.html#comment-136300067

And then there's:

"You should be shot or otherwise made dead. Hoe someone helps you out with that."

http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2008/10/bull.html#comment-136324823

But we can't forget:

"What a shame it would be if someone off'ed you. A shot to the head or a pillow over the face. Fuck you, Dan."

http://www.riehlworldview.com/carnivorous_conservative/2008/10/bull.html#comment-136325225

So what we see is that Obama supporters like jharp don't oppose death threats; in fact, they're making them themselves. Isn't it great the hypocrisy that jharp and Barack Obama practice?

[jharp]

The average return on the stock market over time is 7%

And you don't know your ass from first base regarding the stock market.

From 1929 to 1954. No gain.

And I have no doubt you can pick a window where it has done well. The fact is the Dow was 11,700 9 years ago. It is now 8,400.

Do the math. You have no idea what way the market is headed. Period.

[mary]

Watching our representatives vote for the bailout bill made me realize that they ALL rely on financial professionals to manage their money. Otherwise I wonder if any of them, with their generous salaries, would have clothes on their backs.

[Lala]

The Obama Plan should be called the "three card Monte" game. He will wreck the economy in no time, if he is elected.

When it comes to direct spending -- as opposed to handing out "refund" checks through the tax code -- Mr. Obama claims he won't need more revenue because there will be no more spending. He even claims to be proposing to cut more spending ending up with a "net spending cut." That was Mr. Obama's most direct answer to Bob Schieffer, the moderator of the last debate, right after Mr. Schieffer said "The nonpartisan Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget (CFARB) ran the numbers" and found otherwise.

When CFARB "ran the numbers," they relied almost entirely on unverifiable numbers eagerly provided to them by the Obama campaign. That explains why their list of Mr. Obama's new spending plans is so much shorter than the National Taxpayers Union fully documented list.

But nothing quite explains why even the vaguest promises to save money are recorded by CFARB as if they had substance. Mr. Obama is thus credited with saving $50 billion in a single year (2013) by reducing "wasteful spending" and unnamed "obsolete programs." He is said to save Medicare $43 billion a year by importing foreign drugs and negotiating bargains from drug companies. Yet even proponents of that approach such as the Lewin Group find that cannot save more than $6 billion a year. So the remaining $37 billion turns out to depend on what the Obama campaign refers to as undertaking "additional measures as necessary" (more taxes?).

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122480790550265061.html

[mary]

They have great health insurance, great pensions and they have "blind trusts"?

[mary]

Lala, the market is going down now cause it is pricing in a BO win. Problem is, since, to me he seems very anti business, small and big, it will continue to react to this.

[mary]

jharp, he is one of the conservative nuts who is very anti palin. In my mind, I don't care what he thinks because he is an elitist (Harvard Law) who probably believes us regular folk are not intelligent enough to run the government and to think logically. I usually cross the ultra conservatives out along with the ultra socialist liberals. Only this time, two ultra socialist liberal are the presidential candidate and the vice presidential candidate. This is giving me a little concern.

[mary]

"You have no idea what way the market is headed. Period."

People have a general idea if BO gets in and, for the most part, it scares them.

[Lala]

Here's Obama's plan for social security, since you asked, from the WSJ

Obama Wants Social Security to Be a Welfare Plan
His tax credit amounts to a radical change in the system. *

Imagine this: Barack Obama proposes a Social Security payroll tax cut for low earners. Workers earning up to $8,000 per year would receive back the full 6.2% employee share of the 12.4% total payroll tax, up to $500 per year. Workers earning over $8,000 would receive $500 each, with this credit phasing out for individuals earning between $75,000 and $85,000.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122480907545265123.html

[jharp]

"The Obama Plan should be called the "three card Monte" game. He will wreck the economy in no time, if he is elected."

The economy is already wrecked thanks to George Bush and the GOP.

Didn't you hear? A $700 billion Wall Street bailout.

The nationalization of banks under our socialist President Bush.

$5 trillion in debt thanks to the GOP and Bush.

[Lala]

Oil's down, dollar's up, pound's down, people are pulling out of foreign investments, Chavez can't keep the power on.

[jharp]

Lala, the market is going down now cause it is pricing in a BO win. Problem is, since, to me he seems very anti business, small and big, it will continue to react to this.

Posted by: mary | Saturday, October 25, 2008 at 04:19 PM

You are an idiot. And so is Lala and Fred.

And from reading this blog I thought McCain was going to win. You can't have it both ways.

[Lala]

Keeping American jobs ? By importing drugs? Cut defense spending by 25%. Goodbye, GE and Boeing.
Canada's looking to trade with Europe rather than with us.

[Lala]

so are not so is

[jharp]

So what we see is that Obama supporters like jharp don't oppose death threats; in fact, they're making them themselves. Isn't it great the hypocrisy that jharp and Barack Obama practice?

Posted by: North Dallas Thirty | Saturday, October 25, 2008 at 04:11 PM

Hey, North Dallas Thirty.

Go fuck yourself. Accusing me of making death threats is not something I take lightly. As a matter of fact it is a crime. I never have done such a thing nor would I consider it.

And where do you get off saying I don't oppose death threats?

For the record. I do.

You're a worthless piece of shit. And a liar. Fuck you.

[Fred Beloit]

Harpo seems to have succumb to his liberalism, his Jim Beam, and his Anglo-Saxon. Goodnight Funny Man, sleep tight in the arms of Obapheus.

[Lala]

When they're not throwing temper tantrums, liberals want this -

"Radical Liberals are the ones that want to interfere -- via the government -- in every aspect of your daily life. They want to ban Oreo cookies because the fat in them is bad for children. They want to sue McDonald's because their food makes you fat. They also want to institute a "fat tax" on televisions, junk food, and cars... the idea being that you won't sit and watch TV with a bag of Cheetos, and you'll walk to the store instead of driving. How much do these people want the government to run your life for you? The answer is: TOTALLY. They want to replace your flush toilet with a chemical toilet, and return you to the days of "thunder mugs" and chamber pots, which have to be emptied by hand. They believe that YOU are not capable of running your own life, and want the government to force you to do everything their way. No choices for you -- you will inevitably make the "wrong" one!

read more at http://www.useless-knowledge.com/columnists/joemariani/article7.html

[bush=mccain]

You folks on the right side are sooo gonna be pounded at the polls. You can lie about Biden, lie about your next president, lie about anything. Change is coming, and it is gonna run right over you. Hey, at least you have Gov. palin, right?

[Lala]

Are you in on Ayers plot to murder 25 million Americans? Murdering the opposition is actually the only way socialism keeps its grip.

[Purple Raider]

"The dude is a loser and can't seem to grasp that Obama will lower his taxes."

If you think Obama will lower anyone's taxes, I have a few bridges to sell you.

Do you remember Lyndon Johnson? I do, he raised taxes.
Do you remember Jimmie Carter? I do, he raised taxes.
Do you remember Bill Clinton? I do, he raised taxes.

What Obama is proposing is nothing more than thievery.

[ET]

Funny...I just read the entire thread. Jharp gets frustrated, then angry, then drunk, which culminates in this:

--You're a worthless piece of shit. And a liar. Fuck you.

Great job NDT. You've sent our friend over the edge again. You confronted him with facts and eveidence he cannot refute so, as his bubble begins to burst, he lashes out. He reverts to the sophomoric name calling that makes him feel better.

What a sad little man (and not very good at business, either).

[Spartan112]

"The average return on the stock market over time is 7% -- which includes dips like this"

Dips like this? How many other "dips like this" can you point to?

[North Dallas Thirty]

"Dips like this? How many other "dips like this" can you point to?"

That's easy.

"In the midst of the current panic, economist Robert J. Samuelson offers some reassurance in his Newsweek column in the October 13 issue. His headline asks "Is This a Replay of 1929?" and his answer is generally "not even close," but it is his historical perspective on the stock market that is most heartening.

Samuelson says that economic slumps rarely become national tragedies. The United States has suffered through ten recessions since the late 1940s. While they probably seemed to last an eternity, they actually averaged 10 months. The two worst downturns from 1973 to 1975 and 1981 to 1982 lasted 16 months and had peak unemployment of 9.0 percent and 10.8 percent compared to the 10 recession average of 7.6 percent. Unemployment figures from September put the current level at 6.1 percent.

Bear markets since the war have also numbered 10. A bear market is one in which the Standard and Poor's Index (tracking 500 stocks) declines at least 20 percent from the most recent peak. The average of the 10 bears was 31.5 percent; in both the 1973-74 market and the tech bubble collapse of 2000-2002 the S&P tumbled about 50 percent. Last Friday, Samuelson said, the S&P was off 30 percent from the high reached almost exactly one year ago. At the end of the horrible day on Thursday the Dow was off 39 percent from the peak."

http://www.mortgagenewsdaily.com/print/?p=FIFK

[Jay Stevens]

There is no Social Security Trust Fund. SS revenues get dumped into the general revenue fund and the government basically issues an IOU to the SSA.

[Slink]

You rich folks are doomed! DOOMED! We're gettin' our filthy hands all over your moneyz! Bwahahaha!

[MarkJ]

jharp,

I've had enough for today. I'm off to my party.

Question: How can you have a party...when you're the only one attending it?

[Fred Beloit]

Harpo: "Even that number is grossly exaggerated, because it excludes what people pay through the payroll tax."

That's because the "payroll" tax is NOT an income tax. It is a half-payment of Social Security funding. The other half comes from the employer, i.e., the customer of the company.

BTW, Obama likes the idea of giving certain people "free" social security.

[AdrianS]

The extensive broadening of John McCain’s presidential popularity.
http://www.nextgenerationcorp.com/NextGenBlog/?p=75

Is it Obamalies or Lies Obama tells?
http://www.nextgenerationcorp.com/NextGenBlog/?p=73

[Todd]

"a government "of the people, for the people and by the people" should include all the people not just the ivy leaguers and the wealthy. If Joe the plumber wants to run, then he should after all he is "the people", isn't he?"

I'm not saying Joe the Plumber should be disallowed from running. I'm saying that it's a scary thought when people who are totally unqualified to be in Congress get elected. And, to me a quality education along with a history of overachievement is going to lend itself much more to good government than some Joe Schmoe off the street that people want to have barbeque with. If we've learned anything from the past 8 years, it's that George W. Bush was totally unqualified to be President and got voted in by people who would rather have had a beer with him than Gore or Kerry. That's a freaking joke, and it's no coincidence this country is a mess because of that kind of thinking!! And, that's why Sarah Palin should be considered entirely unqualified as a candidate for Vice President, a 72 year old's heartbeat away from being President. Palin went to 6 different colleges, and you can't get a transcript of her grades. C'mon, that's pathetic !!!

[Todd]

That's totally baseless and simplistic thinking. We're in a global equity bear market. Foreign markets have dropped much worse than the US market. The reason for the global bear market is the credit market meltdown leading to a global recession, brought about by a global housing bubble and completely unfettered, unregulated free markets in credit derivative productsb brought to us by Bush and the GOP's free market dogma.

If the US stock market were selling off because of fear of Barack Obama's tax policies, the US market would be drastically underperforming global markets. It's not.

Got it?

[Todd]

"Do you remember Lyndon Johnson? I do, he raised taxes.
Do you remember Jimmie Carter? I do, he raised taxes.
Do you remember Bill Clinton? I do, he raised taxes."

Do you remember Ronald Reagan? I do, he raised taxes (in 1983).
Do you remember George H.W. Bush? I do, he raised taxes ("read my lips, no new taxes")

[Lala]

Todd, I'd like to see a transcript of Obama's grades. And the magna cum laude stuff doesn't mean anything unless we know his standing in the class. Was he the top or the bottom of the group? Did Harvard grade on a curve? Also, what were his grades in Columbia and how did he qualify for Harvard?

[Il Duche]

I must compliment WFTV on the employment of Barbara West. She has authenticated WFTV's fascist bona fides. Please continue to broadcast Ms. West as she makes your station a beacon for all of us who fight to stifle free thought, racial tolerance, and Christian values.