I Demand An Apology!

This is not a stray tale, it's well-known in many "Riehl" family genealogies. I give you one Ludwig Riehl.

He was born about 1744/6, possibly in Hamburg, Germany. In 1752, he was reportedly kidnapped in Hamburg, brought to America, and sold as an indentured servant to a farmer in Berks Co., PA. When he was freed from his indenture, he married an Amish girl named Veronica Fisher, and apparently adopted the Amish religion himself.

As the US House of Representatives has opted to fiddle away its energies apologizing for slavery at what we are constantly being told is such a challenging time for America, I'm left with a few questions.

Am I to receive some plaque, or form letter in the mail with this apology? Or is the pain and torment of a white European child taken from his home and sold to the highest bidder somehow less than that of an individual of a different color and from a different continent? The motivations and rewards for the slaver in all cases were and are one and the same; are they not?

The first "American" slaves weren't black, they were white and usually from Europe. Shouldn't we be given special credit for being first and all that?

Also, it was in large part a system of laws and government, otherwise known as Western Civilization, established in Europe that was most likely the primary reason why there weren't even more European slaves brought to America. The societies there were somewhat able to protect their own. Logically, then, isn't it ultimately the fault of an under-civilized tribal system which could not protect its own that is a key reason for why traders in men and women turned to another continent for more "product?" It was simply easier to be had, particularly, and often with the cooperation of competing tribes. In that sense, it would seem to me that the black descendants of slaves in America should really be thinking about apologizing to themselves.

And if not that, they, and the US House, should at least consider apologizing for this incessant whining over an unfortunate, though thankfully, long lost past America will never truly leave behind until these babies stop crying about it and get on with the business of living and succeeding in the modern world.

I'll watch the mail for the plaque. But I suspect all I'm ever likely to get from our government is tax-related, as is usually the case. Heck, I'm just a poor white guy with ancestors from the wrong place to get anything more, I suppose.

Comments

[templar knight]

Dan, I'm glad you decided to do a post on this subject, as it is sure to bring out the usual suspects, plus assorted black nationalists and tinfoil hat-wearing moonbats. Just sit back and watch the fun.

I did read somewhere that a figure for reparations had been agreed on, something around $500,000 for each eligible recipient. I'm sure every black family will have an oral history to back up their claims, including black people who came here after slavery was abolished.

[Totally Heterosexual Conservative]

"Logically, then, isn't it ultimately the fault of an under-civilized tribal system which could not protect its own that is a key reason for why traders in men and women turned to another continent for more "product?""

But it's LIEbruls who are the fascists and bigots!!

[IslamoLlama]

Hey, if it makes you feel any better, you and your family are owed as much of an apology as anyone. Slavery = bad, be it white or black or red or yellow or tan. Just be thankful that your ancestor's children never had to live with the enduring stigma of that enslavement. No one was making your grandfather drink from separate water fountains. No one was trying to lynch your great, great, great grandfather for "raping" an innocent Amish girl. Certainly, no one sits around suggesting you are a secret Mormon or a race-traitor or too German or not German enough to run a pundit blog.

Of course, I didn't realize they were handing out plaques to anyone. This seems to be your standard, run-of-the-mill non-binding tax-free statement of contrition. Certainly on par with various other bullshit bills the GOP likes to pass, such as
Stating that most people in America speak English
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/19/washington/19immig.html
Or reaffirming that Missouri is home to a large number of Christians
http://www.kmov.com/topstories/stories/030206ccklrKmovreligionbill.7d361c3f.html

I do appreciate the fact that Dan thinks the Democrats have a lock on rather meaningless happy-talk legislation. That said, he is sadly mistaken. Again.

[JustOneMan]

Gee..Obama is half black and half white so did he also read form a teleprompter to apologize to himself? I guess he might be eligible for only $250,000...

JOM

[Bean Counter]

$500k per Negro, or per Negro family? Either way you slice that, that is a serious boatload of cash. I mean, everyone with a drop of Negro blood would be "rolling it ghetto fabulous" with spinning hubcaps, Escalades, and unimaginable levels of taxation and debt unseen in the history of mankind.

Heck, I might even have to look up the family tree to see if there is a mulatto or two hiding around.

Figuring $500k/person, and around 36,000,000 Negroes to pay reparations to...

...that would set us back about 18 TRILLION dollars.

We would have to kick off a Weimar style hyperinflation in order to pay that off.

I suppose Lincoln was right after all: maybe we should have just paid to ship them off back to Africa after the emancipation.

[chris]

Meanwhile the Redneck Nation cheered 'Freedom Fries'. They're like children...

[Totally Heterosexual Conservative]

It's funny. TK "read somewhere" that black folks were eligible to receive $500k per person, and the rest of the fan-boys meatballs lap and repeat it up as if it were true.

[Neo]

It's only appropriate that a Democratic Congress should issue an apology for slavery when Republicans worked so hard (Lincoln gave his life) to end slavery.

[Roy Mustang]

I think we should give every black person $500K. It worked out so well for the Harper family.

[Bean Counter]

Well then, THC - do tell us: do you support reparations for Negroes? And if so, in what amount?

An apology is fine, but anything more than that is not likely to ever pass. Perhaps a free, one-way air ticket to the African nation of their choice would be acceptable "reparation" if they decide that they just can't get a fair shake here. Although I daresay that today's Negroes enjoy far more opportunities than their fathers did, and certainly mor than their grandfathers.

This "black guilting" is probably one of the chief reasons why Obama will be sworn in as POTUS next January - to alleviate centuries of black animus in the eyes of whites, and to relieve them of their white man's burden (of guilt).

It can't be because of his previous, exemplary legislative leadership in either the Senate or the Illinois Statehouse which lead to all sorts of revolutionary changes that raised the hopes of so many... or his stentorian ovations which set thousands of ships to sea and so many hearts afire when he was without a teleprompter.

[IslamoLlama]

"-- It's funny. TK "read somewhere" that black folks were eligible to receive $500k per person, and the rest of the fan-boys meatballs lap and repeat it up as if it were true. --"

I can't wait for them to start pointing to our new $480 billion budget deficit and start blaming it on the Democrats' tax-and-spend reparations policy.

When will people learn? You don't fix years of economic injustice with government hand outs. You fix the economy by handing out tax cuts! Why McCain hasn't proposed the Tax Cuts For Black People tax credit yet is totally beyond me.

[dnono]

Bean Counter: "This "black guilting" is probably one of the chief reasons why Obama will be sworn in as POTUS next January - to alleviate centuries of black animus in the eyes of whites, and to relieve them of their white man's burden (of guilt)."

Actually, the primary reason he'll become president is due to the high suckage factor of McCain. Feel free to vote for McBrownose McCain, but I for one am willing to give another newbie the chance to screw-up this country in the other direction.

[brad]

Bean Counter, a little tip; using the term "negroes" and slyly suggesting they should go back to Africa reveals you as an intense racist. There are code words of a more recent vintage you can use to cover your ignorant hatred more effectively, just fyi.

[SacTownMan]

How did the "worst congress in history" possibly find the time for such important legislation.

Up until now I thought that the other important bills they've passed dealing with the pressing issues of our time like naming post offices was a meaningful accomplishment.

It must be time for a another round of hearings on President Bush, those evil monsters at Halliburtan or maybe they can try and cut of funding for Iraq again. They're good at that.

With they're upcoming summer recess just around the corner I'm sure we can look forward to some other less important legislation gettin passed like recinding the ban on off-shore drilling, or maybe even passing some of those pesky spending bills.

Nancy does have that Botox appointment tommorrow so we will most likely just shut down a little early this week.

Those bitter, clingy voters will never notice!

[Totally Heterosexual Conservative]

"An apology is fine" ....

Stop. This is all this proposal seeks, numb nuts. It does not mention reparations. You and your fellow knuckle-draggers are getting your panties in a twist over a manufactured idea that has zero chance of ever occuring.

"This "black guilting" is probably one of the chief reasons why Obama will be sworn in as POTUS next January - to alleviate centuries of black animus in the eyes of whites, and to relieve them of their white man's burden (of guilt)."

Are you such a bigot that you can not imagine people voting for a black candidate but for some sort of "guilt"? Beleive it or not, not everyone blames their bitter/miserable lot in life on the existence of people with darker skin.

"It can't be because of his previous, exemplary legislative leadership in either the Senate or the Illinois Statehouse which lead to all sorts of revolutionary changes that raised the hopes of so many... or his stentorian ovations which set thousands of ships to sea and so many hearts afire when he was without a teleprompter."

Yeah, you're right. The fact that Obama stands for pretty much the opposite of everything you and your incompetent, backward, and failed lot stand for, probably has nothing to do with it.

[libarbarian]

This Obamacon has never felt a second of "white guilt" and is curious why people like you keep insisting that I have.

[IslamoLlama]

"-- Stop. This is all this proposal seeks, numb nuts. It does not mention reparations. You and your fellow knuckle-draggers are getting your panties in a twist over a manufactured idea that has zero chance of ever occuring. --"

And that's just par for the course.

These are the loons who doggedly insist Al Gore is going to take away their Hummers and Hillary Clinton is going to take away their guns. Simple proposals - let's invest in wind energy rather than handing out another trillion dollars to oil companies, let's offer affordable health insurance, let's prohibit known criminals and psychopaths from buying guns - get mutated in the conservative mind into claims that people are going to be taxed on breathing or that abortions will become mandatory.

This sort of insanity is what gave us the political stalemate in 2004 and the landslide in 2006. In 2008, it will be the nationwide backlash to GOP hackery that will give us our first black President and super majorities in both houses of Congress.

So, really, this level of tin-foil hat nonsense should be encouraged. GOoPers haven't been this disrespected since Nixon was climbing on his Helicopter on the way out.

[Sara]

This apology is so offensive, it makes me want to throttle someone. Of course, Dan, you don't qualify for an apology. What the heck are we, 140 years later, responsible for to apologize? My ancestors arrived from Wales in 1726. They settled in York, Adams, Bedford and Somerset counties, PA and were abolitionist Quakers who preached constantly against slavery. This abolitionist mindset came down through the family to the 20th century and several members of my family were on the front lines of the Civil Rights movement, so why the heck do I owe anyone an apology. We didn't keep slaves, we did not support slavery, we worked hard (including sheltering runaway slaves) to protect those who were slaves.

I find this apology to be offensive and one of the stupidest things I've seen these people do. It has me hopping mad.

I'm really sorry that African tribal leaders captured rival tribal members and sold them to the slave traders. Why not demand apologies from those groups in Africa. And what the hell does Obama know about slavery, he of the spoiled little boy who didn't even grow up in America?

My ancestors had their lands in England confiscated because they left the Church of England and became Quakers. They lost their lands, they were imprisoned, they were ostracized, oh boo hoo. What the hell does that have to do with what I do with my life today? Nada, not a darn thing anymore than what an ancestor held in slavery somewhere in the world has to do with blacks of African heritage today. I am so tired of everything being turned into some kind of ongoing collective guilt as an excuse for personal failure and lack of drive, education or ambition.

Throughout history, Jews have had it a whole lot worse than blacks. Mormons in this country were tracked down and killed for their beliefs. Slavery was rampant throughout the Roman Empire. Egyptians used slaves for centuries. Sheesh, fat people in this country have it worse than blacks.

I really resent being tarred with this brush of pretend guilt.

[redherkey]

Sounds like we're members of a proud club of oppressed former slaves. My great-grandmother, of Czech origins, was sold into slavery at age 10 and sent to the United States. She had to serve her masters until her twenties before she could be freed. Another ancestor of ours was a Hessian soldier pressed into service, sent overseas to fight as a mercenary for the British, and took two fellow soldiers and joined the Revolutionary Army (by throwing off his military hat and stomping on it in front of American soldiers, as they spoke no English) when he learned of America's fight for freedom.

Much of my non-indentured family heritage fought in the civil war, with lives lost to liberate slaves. According to Mr. Obama, we descendants of slaves are to pay to those like him who have no experience with slavery, or worse yet, have ancestors who owned slaves. I would suggest that rather than drag our nation into a lose-lose battle over the harms our ancestors experienced, as Ireland and the U.K. have witnessed for countless generations, the greatness of America is moving beyond those futile battles and focusing on building a better future.

Change? Hope? Impossible given Mr. Obama's position on this and many other issues. More appropriately, his message is: Misery! Agony! Suffering! Fear! Doubt! Loathing! All with big ears and a grin.

[Totally Heterosexual Conservative]

"This apology is so offensive, it makes me want to throttle someone."

It must be so trying for you to be constantly victimized. Your suffering is nothing compared to slavery, Jim Crowe, and being mowed down in the street by the police.

[Totally Insane Liberal]

Hey Totally Metrosexual NonConservative,

I know it's hard to relate to the other comments with all those voices going on in your head at the same time, but give this a try. What if all of us here issued a formal apology in your newspaper for your continued sexual abuse of your dog? We could issue the apology for you, condemning all acts of violence you've committed, and represented that you feel that it's no longer an acceptable practice.

Would you be consistent and support this apology as well (presuming for a moment that you haven't enjoyed the intimate pleasures of dog)? Would you argue that years of abuse of dogs justifies this, even if in your case, the apology is for a crime not committed?

This is where we nonconservatives continue to get confused about Liberalism. You see, when you can't make liberal ideology logically work, why do you continue to practice it?

Eagerly awaiting your enlightened reply...

[IslamoLlama]

"-- I find this apology to be offensive and one of the stupidest things I've seen these people do. It has me hopping mad. --"

I'd be hopping mad too. I mean, Congress said things. With their mouths. There were sounds coming out and everything. And now we're all mortally scarred. Seriously, I think I've got a welt on my elbo that is directly related to Nancy Pelosi apologizing for slavery. I'm in pain right now, and its the Democrats' fault.

"-- I'm really sorry that African tribal leaders captured rival tribal members and sold them to the slave traders. Why not demand apologies from those groups in Africa. And what the hell does Obama know about slavery, he of the spoiled little boy who didn't even grow up in America? --"

Yeah! Black people are responsible for slavery. Why don't they apologize for their ancestors 140 years ago if they think they're so smart. And what's more, Hawaii isn't a state! Who's smart now?

I'm voting for John McCain as he has promised to never apologize for anything. And he promises to blow up Iran. Which... you know... is something our grandchildren will probably end up feeling obligated to apologize for...

[Sara]

It must be so trying for you to be constantly victimized. Your suffering is nothing compared to slavery, Jim Crowe, and being mowed down in the street by the police.

Who is claiming victim status here? Certainly not me. And don't get me started on police brutality. I am disabled thanks to police brutality and a sick steroid enraged cop who broke my back and put my 90 year old mother in the hospital on a respirator.

I will not take on the guilt of slavery that I had not a damn thing to do with and those who use it as some kind of excuse for their own pathetic life are just that, pathetic.

I raised a young black man from the age of 10 thru college. He is now an executive for a major corporation. His genealogy shows a family right off the South Carolina plantation. He finds this apology to be even more offensive than I do. He sees no reason why what happened to his great-great-great-great grandfather and grandmother has anything to do with whether he worked hard in school to earn a full scholarship and then worked hard in college so that he could get the job he has now. He is a confident young man, not one crying about century old history. His attitude is, "your life is what YOU make it."

[IslamoLlama]

"-- What if all of us here issued a formal apology in your newspaper for your continued sexual abuse of your dog? We could issue the apology for you, condemning all acts of violence you've committed, and represented that you feel that it's no longer an acceptable practice.

Would you be consistent and support this apology as well (presuming for a moment that you haven't enjoyed the intimate pleasures of dog)? Would you argue that years of abuse of dogs justifies this, even if in your case, the apology is for a crime not committed? --"

Wait, are you implying that slavery never happened? Or that since you never committed slavery, Congressional representatives of states that gained immense economic advantage from the slave system and from the Jim Crow and segregationist policies that followed should not issue a formal apologize.

If you got hired by Exxon, and the next day Exxon issued an apology for the Valdez spill, would this make you mad? After all, YOU weren't driving the tanker. You weren't even a member of Exxon until a day ago. And yet, here they are, apologizing for a mistake they clearly stated that you made. Would you quit and go work for BP? Or would you just curl up in your cubicle and cry about it?

Oh, wait. My analogy doesn't involve anal sex with a dog. Perhaps I should have rephrased that in a manner you'd understand...

[IslamoLlama]

"-- I will not take on the guilt of slavery that I had not a damn thing to do with and those who use it as some kind of excuse for their own pathetic life are just that, pathetic. --"

TOO LATE! Congress already passed the resolution. You are now totally at fault and there's nothing you can do about it.

Here, have a band-aid and a tissue.

"-- I raised a young black man from the age of 10 thru college... blah blah blah --"

Sure you did. Sure he did. We all totally believe you and are ever so proud of you and your friend's accomplishments. Have yourself a cookie, you've earned it.

[Bean Counter]

" using the term "negroes" and slyly suggesting they should go back to Africa reveals you as an intense racist."

It isn't about racism as much as it is about realism.

There is a deep difference between the minority of black people who have got their acts together and have become successful folk. I'd count Obama as one, but he is very much a foreigner to the experience of the typical black American, and as such has played the race game as good if not better than his tired predecessors (Sharpton, Jackson, et al.) that is to say, with a degree of eloquence and ability that doesn't stigmatize him the same way it has his elders.

But a great many blacks simply refuse to pull themselves up out of the mire: there really is no widespread prejudice or any Jim Crow laws "keeping the brothas down" as there were a generation or two ago.

Slavery is over 140 years dead. It is high time that black folk stopped kicking that horse's dessicated skeleton as a means of justifying their laziness.

I don't go out for racialist theories on how this or that race is inherently lazy or intellectually inferior.... that is hogwash. There are plenty of intelligent and accomplished black folks out in the USA (who are not professional athletes).

But there is something that is afflicting Blacks, it is a cultural disease. A deeply entrenched culture of "trying to get something for nothing" or maladjusted opportunism.

Additionally, there is a sort of a social cannibalism amongst blacks; so-called "high-color" or "yellow" blacks are discriminated against and also discriminate against their darker brethren. Most of the crime that goes on is black-on-black violence.

The culture of thuggishness and violence is glorified; multi-generation welfare families and absentee fatherhood are the norms.

Realism tends to suggest that this situation is likely to change, nor will reparations of any sort help. Look where LBJ's "Great Society" program got us.

And on and on with this incessant badgering with how the "blacks can do no wrong", including the use of epithets that and racist behavior that
get any whit man tarred and feathered for hate crimes, whilst they go scot-free.

The best favor we could give those perpetually dissatisfied blacks would be to offer them a ride back home to their motherland.

[redherkey]

I am so thankful for this forum. I have so many things to get off my chest that have been an impossible burden to carry. With you all as my witness, I can finally come clean.

I, RedHerkey, of RedHerkestan (also known as Fly Over Iowa), to hereby apologize for the following:

- Velveeta Lite
- Al Gore's phony dialect
- Mutton chops
- Pets.com
- Spilled beer
- Really long stoplights
- Microsoft Bob
- Bad sex
- The Federal debt
- Ear hair
- Nancy Pelosi's book
- Nancy Pelosi's narcissism disorder
- Nancy Pelosi
- Spoiled milk
- No National Free Everything Bagel and Endless Cream Cheese Plan

*WHEW* OMG! That felt GREAT! Wow... I mean... until you try it, you have no freaking clue how liberating it is. Seriously!

You all can thank me later for my humility.

[Xanthippas]

Logically, then, isn't it ultimately the fault of an under-civilized tribal system which could not protect its own that is a key reason for why traders in men and women turned to another continent for more "product?" It was simply easier to be had, particularly, and often with the cooperation of competing tribes. In that sense, it would seem to me that the black descendants of slaves in America should really be thinking about apologizing to themselves.

Indeed, it is the fault of these weakling little tribes that they couldn't protect themselves from racist slavery. Just as it was surely the fault of the weakling little tribes in America to be unable to protect their land from those marauding Europeans, who surely cannot be blamed for all that conquest, pillaging and raping because that's just how things were back in those days. OR, as an alternative argument, those tribes were busy rounding up slaves anyway...if it weren't the Europeans buying them, it would've been somebody, right??

Nah, there's no racism left in America. We're a post-race society! That's why in the year 2008 you can't find a single blogger out there making apologies for racist slavery!

[Totally Heterosexual Conservative]

"Hey Totally Metrosexual NonConservative,

I know it's hard to relate to the other comments with all those voices going on in your head at the same time, but give this a try."

Which ones? The ones that find dubious the good faith of the arguments insisting that black folks should be shipped back to Africa, and that blacks are to blame for slavery - because of a resolution apologizing for the institution of racism? No? You mean the voices telling me this resolution isn't a big deal, and that making a big deal of it kind of, you know, exposes one's petty bigotry?

As for your puppy-buggering fantasy, the second that anyone implies that you were ever a slave-trader or master, or otherwise engaged in such activity, you might have something.

[Xanthippas]

"The best favor we could give those perpetually dissatisfied blacks would be to offer them a ride back home to their motherland."

As a Native American myself, I'll go ahead and say I'm on board with this if we can also ship back to Europe the perpetually aggrieved white conservatives, preferably in ships of similar design to the one their ancestors came over on.

[IslamoLlama]

"-- As a Native American myself, I'll go ahead and say I'm on board with this if we can also ship back to Europe the perpetually aggrieved white conservatives, preferably in ships of similar design to the one their ancestors came over on.--"

Hehe. Win.

[R. Stanton Scott]

So because their "undercivilized tribal system" could not protect them, enslaving them was OK?

What sort of twisted moral planet do you live on?

[templar knight]

Hmm...I'm a native American myself, Xan, as I was born right here in the USA. As for the figure I enumerated, it was extrapolated from the 40 acres and a mule, and I think it came from Russell Simmons. I'm sure the million more march coming up in October will make everything perfectly clear, as reparations is one of the two major issues on their agenda.

I guess it all depends on where your forty acres is located, in Manhatten if would be worth in the billions of dollars, in Eastern Montana, not so much. In any event, I never used the figure nor intended it to be used for anything more than discussion purposes, as any idiot would realize that the demand will be much higher than what anyone would ever expect. My mistake was giving you liberals credit for being regular idiots rather than the supreme idiots you turned out to be.

[BMW]

So, you have only one line in your family? Are all your ancestors named Riehl? Are you the product of generations of incest? Is your mother a Riehl too? Did you all grow up on isolated Indian reservations, and not in the US per se? I would agree with you on all you have written if all I have asked is answered, "yes."

Also, this: Did not all those generations of Riehls benefit from "affirmative action" for generations of whites?

[BMW]

By the way, your knowledge of early American history stinks. Indentured servants were not slaves. No other way to put it.

Also this: A sizable number of indentured servants married and-or cohabitated with slaves and former slaves. Could you have a few non-Riehl African relatives in your past? Maybe you should apologize to your African relatives for being such a goof and a disappointment.

[BMW]

I just read your last two sentences. It seems that your sense of everything stinks as well. Good luck, my friend (as J. McC would say).

[BMW]

By the way, your knowledge of early American history stinks. Indentured servants were not slaves. No other way to put it.

Also this: A sizable number of indentured servants married and-or cohabitated with slaves and former slaves. Could you have a few non-Riehl African relatives in your past? Maybe you should apologize to your African relatives for being such a goof and a disappointment.

[mb]

I'm sorry your ancestor was brought to this country. Without his 'kidnapping' as you describe, we might not have to endure your stupidity.

[Sara]

I read the comments here and wonder if any of you spouting about slavery and racism have ever studied a history book? World history is full of slavery. It was the norm, not the exception in times past. From an individual liberty point of view, slavery is a bad thing. Most of us would agree it is an immoral thing. But, to act like because some of the U.S. population engaged in it at one time in our history makes all of us somehow guilty forever is just insane, pompous, and selfish and immoral and a whole host of other things too numerous to mention.

Was the slavery in America any worse than the caste system of India or the slavery inherent in socialism or the Roman system, the Greek system, or the Japanese or Chinese systems. Surely you cannot think it is worse than what the Nazis did to the Jews, or the Spanish did to the Jews? Or how Gypsies even today are treated? Obama's socialism created more slaves thruout history than anything that ever happened here, yet he wants us all to model those systems, like the old Soviet Union, Castro's Cuba, Chavez's Venezuela. The dems in Congress want to enslave all of us by taking our money and putting us all on the dole.

[SacTownMan]

Dang there Pocahontas I'm sure he didn't mean to get your tailfeathers all in a bunch!

"-- As a Native American myself, I'll go ahead and say I'm on board with this if we can also ship back to Europe the perpetually aggrieved white conservatives, preferably in ships of similar design to the one their ancestors came over on.--"

I didn't know that the troll race was indigenous to America.

And I would say the same thing to you that the second Iraqi soldier said to the first one as the M1 tanks came rolling across the desert...

You first!!

[Sara]

http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=blog.view&friendID=128821643&blogID=418542247&Mytoken=81713B8B-6CB3-493F-B9B0461727E0F147174237085

For the snarky commenter who called me a liar about my adopted black son, maybe you should get your head out of those dark places and do a little reading. The above link would be a good place to start.

[rapid]

did you say berks county? and ludwig? that was my family! come over here boy!

[BMW]

To Sara:

Huh? You last post was such incredible gibberish? Do you know American history at all? The fact that forms of slavery existed elsewhere is irrelevant.

And, goodness, who really cares that you have a black son. Poor guy!

[seekeronos]

"--- The fact that forms of slavery existed elsewhere is irrelevant. ---"

You are wrong. It is very relevant: the coastal African tribes that had regular contact with Arab and European slave traders raided the weaker tribes in the interior of Africa, enslaved them, and sold them to the Arabs and Europeans.

Slavery was practised by Africans against their fellow Africans (who saw one another as members of competing tribes, much as today's urban black youth (not all, but a large number) tend to divide up into those modern tribes we call "gangs" and prey upon each other as well as Latinos, Asians and Whites.

African-on-African slavery was well established, going back millennia back into the Roman era, well before the Europeans had a major stake in that trade. The Arabs under the various Caliphates plied a vigorous slave trade throughout their domains, and the Africans themselves made quite an industry of enslaving one another.

They actually continue to do this in the present time as well, as evidenced by some of the actions of the Islamist armies/guerilla gangs such as the Janjaweed militia in Darfur.

The American transatlantic slave trade existed from the 1600s until 1808, after which it was Constitutionally prohibited. And after another 56 years North American slavery ended: so from 1620 - 1865 we have nearly 250 years of slavery, as opposed to nearly 2,000 years of it in Africa, with Africans enslaving other Africans.

Perhaps the Africans should apologize to each other as well.

[ME]

"Logically, then, isn't it ultimately the fault of an under-civilized tribal system which could not protect its own that is a key reason for why traders in men and women turned to another continent for more "product?""

I can't tell if you are being intentionally glib for effect, or if you really mean that.

It's amazing to me that you could make such a statement while simultaneously believing that the "blame america first" crowd is inherently wrong wrong wrong.

If you can blame slavery on African's under-civilized tribal system, you can blame any victim's environment for the suffering of the victim.

So, 9/11 can be blamed on America's greedy corporate militaristic system.

And we can blame the attacks on Pearl Harbor on the US military for not defending Hawaii.

And we can blame those silly Jews for not protecting themselves from Hitler... I mean jeez, they should have known what was coming once they were forced to wear the star of david on their sleaves!

We can go on and on.... I'm guessing your so called "logic" doesn't seem to work when applied to groups other than those "whiny uppity negroes".

Jackass.

[ME]

"But a great many blacks simply refuse to pull themselves up out of the mire: there really is no widespread prejudice or any Jim Crow laws "keeping the brothas down" as there were a generation or two ago."

Even if that were true (which it is quite obviously not - no widespread prejudice my ass...did you not see the voters in kentucky this primary season?), if your great-great grandfather didn't know how to read, was torn from his family at a yound age and sold off, and at some point was emancipated into extreme poverty (or worse, exploited as a sharecropper and driven into debt), followed by (what the quoted person admits is) widespread prejudice for generations, I wonder if you would be able to "pull yourself up"?

The point is, just because structural conditions have changed for the better (which we all agree on to some extent), that does not undo the effects of generations of inescapable povery and prejudice. And that, sir, is why you come off as ignorant and insensitive. I'm lucky to stand on the shoulders of my forefathers, without whose accomplishments I could not be where I am today. Very, very few people of any color "pull themselves up"... it typically takes generations.