NAFTA Dust up: Do You Want The Facts, Or The Narrative?

So, I'm reading this Globe and Mail item, drawing huge attention it seems. But at least for now, the facts as I read them don't support the narrative being constructed. You see, first we have a simple off-hand remark from Harper aide, Brodie. That informal remark was passed off to the DC news bureau for investigation - you know, hopefully some real journalism taking place. The result was the Obama memo and phone call. Unless, or until I see something with more substance, it reads to me as though Brodie was talking off the cuff, had Obama mixed up with Clinton and the "journalism" resulted in some facts coming out. But, I guess if you have a man crush on Obama, or perhaps just dislike Hillary, the narrative serves one's interests. Personally, I prefer the facts. Without some new ones, the smoking gun still points to Obama, not Clinton.

At the end of an extended conversation, Mr. Brodie was asked about remarks aimed by the Democratic candidates at Ohio's anti-NAFTA voters that carried serious economic implications for Canada.

Since 75 per cent of Canadian exports go to the U.S., Mr. Obama and Ms. Clinton's musings about reopening the North American free-trade pact had caused some concern.

Mr. Brodie downplayed those concerns.

"Quite a few people heard it," said one source in the room.

"He said someone from (Hillary) Clinton's campaign is telling the embassy to take it with a grain of salt. . . That someone called us and told us not to worry."

But others said the content of Mr. Brodie's remarks was passed on to CTV's Washington bureau and their White House correspondent set out the next day to pursue the story on Ms. Clinton's apparent hypocrisy on the North American Free Trade Agreement.

Although CTV correspondent Tom Clark mentioned Ms. Clinton in passing, the focus of his story was on assurances from the Obama camp.

He went to air on Feb. 27 with a report that the Democratic front-runner had given advance notice to Canadian diplomats that he was about to engage in some anti-NAFTA rhetoric, but not to take it too seriously.

Comments

[WAHOO WILLIE]

OH CANADA!!!

Sorry folks, couldn't resist

[RG]

NAFTA has helped US exports........but just what do we export these days? Wheat, oats, corn, various grains. Pathetic. We have been reduced to a 3rd world country by the "free trade fetishists".

NAFTA's a crock. American independece is in the balance. We are now dependent on foreign nations, mostly Communist China. Great, just great.

No manufacturing = no sovereign nation.

[in_awe]

In addition to China's dominate role in producing finished goods for sale in the US, they also have significant control over how goods get to the US. They own considerable ocean shipping capacity and as of a few years ago acquired port authority at both ends of the Panama Canal. Their attempt to gain control of the Port of Los Angeles was thwarted at the end of a long contentious process in the 1990's. Clinton as I recall didn't see a problem with that happening - go figure.

[Ming the Merciless Siamese Cat]

Wrong RG. According to the US Commerce Dept. leading US exports are as follows:

Medical Equipment #1
Pollution Control and Water Resources #2
Outbound Tourism to the United States #3
Safety and Security #4
Aircraft Parts #5
Franchising #6
Computer Software #7
Telecommunications Services #8
E-Commerce #9
Electric Power Systems #10
Telecom Equipment #11
Agricultural Products #12

Damned pesky facts!

[WAHOO WILLIE]

"Damned pesky facts!"

I doubt the point was that truthfully wheat and grass and such was #12 in what we export but you make a decent point. SInce you're so bent on disproving RGs point I wonder if we can get you to Google what the US exported 20, 30 and 40 years ago....for comparison. I wonder if you would compare consumer goods exported as opposed to the smaller market goods you listed. Read your list. Does it look like something Jao Lin wants to drag back to his hooch or does it look like stuff to be made into other stuff that's sent back for Joe Six-Pack to drag back to his hooch. I believe that was RGs point and I think it's something for you to think about. Facts are useless without analysis.

[RG]

Exactly Wahoo Willie - thanks for your point. Without analysis, without context, facts mean little and are often used to bullsh*t listeners.

I am NOT for stopping all trade (not stopping ALL immigration) but I do think we need to re-think these policies because free trade uber alles and open, mass immigration is hurtful to THE NATION, which is more than just an economy, oh great clever "Ming".

Welcome to the USA - we're the leaders in Safety and Security and Franchising. How proud we must be! Japan and China and S. Korea must be laughing at us as we descend. They are ready to take over.

[juandos]

Yes WAHOO WILLIE, those pesky facts just trump faux realities some people build up around themselves...

Consider the, "consumer goods exported" by these companies:

(http://thinkglobal.us/exporteroftheyear/2008/)

Fifteen Companies Named Exporters of the Year by Commercial News USA

[Bruce]

Juandos baby......"think global"? Baby, you've been conned by the neocons, by the RINO's, by Jorge Bush and Juan McAmnesty! Baby, it's all about helping those "hard workin criminals, I mean, amigos, juz puttin food on da table, pardner".

You and Ming The Idiot actually believe government statistics? Too frickin funny. Come to Michigan, Ohio, Penn., Indiana. See some real life.

Globalism is nonsense for the weak-willed, the weak-minded. It's for those who aren't Americans, for those who's families have not been here for generations and thus have history and heritage in this country. It's a con-game for the professional leg-crosser class on tv financial shows and other nonsense chat shows. Medved, Kudlow and those propagandists.

[WAHOO WILLIE]

File not found

Nice link. Oh and btw,,,,It's 2008 now. I asked for 20-30-40 years ago

[juandos]

"Nice link. Oh and btw,,,,It's 2008 now. I asked for 20-30-40 years ago"...

Look it up yourself... Are your fingers broke...

The reason I pointed that site out to you is that you seem to have a tough time understanding what a consumer product is...

[Fred Beloit]

"How proud we must be! Japan and China and S. Korea must be laughing at us as we descend. They are ready to take over."

Wahoo, you subscribe to this nonsense of RG's? And this drivel?

"You and Ming The Idiot actually believe government statistics? Too frickin funny. Come to Michigan, Ohio, Penn., Indiana. See some real life."

If I want to manyfacture something, I sure would not want to do it in these heavy union and heavy tax states. Throw in Illinois, New York and Connecticut while you're at it, Bruce.

[seekeronos]

A few observations:

(1) A lot of our man-power intensive manufactury (sewing things together, making sneakers, assembling computers, bolting together cars on an assembly line, etc.) is heavily unionized and regulated to the point of making offshoring such production a much, much better option.

(2) What manufactury involves simple things like a machine squirting a substance into a single-cast mold (such as plastic coathangers or Pyrex containers) with minimal manpower can be done here... which is why a lot of that sort of dollar-store merchandise is surprisingly made in the USA. Anything involving gluing two or more pieces together or using a handtool like a screwdriver to put two screws holding the top and bottom halves of a Matchbox car together means employing a human, and the farther offshore he or she is, the less likely the toy company has to pay him such profit-eating things like "workers comp" or "health insurance", or in many cases, a decent (by American standards) "wage".

(3) Advanced manufacturing equipment, medical equipment, and certain heavy industry equipment - basically the "tools that make the tools" *is* made in the USA, but the actual export market for these is somewhat limited... and this in turn trickles down to the keeping the Chinese majoring on the range of manufactury from cheap trinketry to rip-offs of advanced consumer electronics.

America is more geared toward exporting innovation, and we are learning about design as well, from our Japanese and European examples (the various iterations of the iPod and iTouch are examples of this). China on the other hand, really isn't an innovator so much as she is an imitator.

This will not remain the case for very long, just as Japan advanced rapidly from being a subject of manufactury scorn to parity with us in the 19070s-80s and then to amazement as Japanese electronics dominate the markets. China is just taking longer due to size, a previously stunted Maoist command economic model, and a lack of American subsidies (directly for the first few decades after WW2, and longer counting the ongoing military subsidy throughout the Cold War until now).

(4) Mexico/Free-Trade wonkiness: Herein lies the rub with immigration: I do not like letting in the MS-13'ers and the Aztlan/MeCHista agitators. But I am willing support a legal path to immigration for vetted Mexicans who demonstrate a willingness to assimilate (i.e. learn English and take to American culture) and repudiate the radicals. They along with the OTMs as a labor market might take a while to spin up to Chinese standards of manufactury, and doing so will shorten the sea mileage (gobs and gobs of expensive oil) between us and Red China.

Perhaps an even better solution would be to create market conditions in Mexico ideal to keeping more Mexicans in their homeland, making their money there, while shipping products northward. This way, they are not subject to our more production-inhibiting labour laws.

Mexico is also much more closer to us in terms of general culture (derived from European as opposed to Sinic) as well as being closer to our economic sphere of influence. Plus, they have a bunch of oil that will be easier for us to secure, if we are also wise enough to drill and develop our own near-shore sources as well as the ANWR.

Free Trade _can_ be a great tool for prosperity, if we treat it correctly and avoid shooting ourselves in the feet.

Additionally, stupidity like the sub-prime debacle and foolishness with lending money and _excessive_ deficit spending without a clear plan and backup plan to absorb the attendant risk of steep losses factor in this as well, but the fact of the matter is that we are largely a post-industrial, post manufacturing base nation, plus or minus a few key industries we have a key strategic interest in staying ahead in.

[WAHOO WILLIE]

"It's 2008 now. I asked for 20-30-40 years ago"...

Look it up yourself... Are your fingers broke...

The reason I pointed that site out to you is that you seem to have a tough time understanding what a consumer product is..."

No kukaburra I know exactly what a consumer product is and I see that you've no interest in looking into pre-NAFTA exports compared to today. That was pretty much the point we started on after all, the point RG was trying to make. We've gone from shipping washing machines, dryers, cars, tractors, construction equipment and all other manner of END USER consumer goods to shipping a whole bunch of stuff that is assembled and sent back to us...the end user. Genius, why else do you think our textile mills are mostly gone, our steel mills and our auto makers and on and on? Now I point you to Fred up there for part of the reason for us becoming more importers than exporters. I would add that since you and I prefer a $7.00 tee shirt to one that costs $17.00 is a big part of the trade deficit.

[WAHOO WILLIE]

"It's 2008 now. I asked for 20-30-40 years ago"...

Look it up yourself... Are your fingers broke...

The reason I pointed that site out to you is that you seem to have a tough time understanding what a consumer product is..."

No kukaburra I know exactly what a consumer product is and I see that you've no interest in looking into pre-NAFTA exports compared to today. That was pretty much the point we started on after all, the point RG was trying to make. We've gone from shipping washing machines, dryers, cars, tractors, construction equipment and all other manner of END USER consumer goods to shipping a whole bunch of stuff that is assembled and sent back to us...the end user. Genius, why else do you think our textile mills are mostly gone, our steel mills and our auto makers and on and on? Now I point you to Fred up there for part of the reason for us becoming more importers than exporters. I would add that since you and I prefer a $7.00 tee shirt to one that costs $17.00 is a big part of the trade deficit.

[WAHOO WILLIE]

"Wahoo, you subscribe to this nonsense of RG's? And this drivel?"

Not sure what you're asking Fred. I DO agree that we are becoming import buyers when we used to buy our own stuff and ship it to the rest of the world. I also agree with you that if I can build my widgets in Korea with employees that make .75 cents an hour ($1.50 with benefits), lower taxes, fewer regulations and can get a markup per widget of say 90% and sell my widgets to Americans.........well who can blame them. It's only going to get worse in the utopia...sorry. Here's a funny; in about ten years Mexico is expected to IMPORT labor. Yep, Texans will be crossing the border to work in Juarez vis the other way round.

[seekeronos]

"--- Here's a funny; in about ten years Mexico is expected to IMPORT labor. Yep, Texans will be crossing the border to work in Juarez vis the other way round. ---"

Ah, the joys of NAFTA.

Of course, this could also be affected by migrants coming up from Guatemala, El Salvador, Nicaragua, and Honduras into Mexico to earn themselves steady paychecks in a stable currency such as the Mexican Peso.

[seekeronos]

And if this SPP/North American Union idea kicks off after the fashion of Ron Paul's worst black helicopter filled nightmares... there simply won't be a Tex-Mex border to cross.

Santa Anna's revenge made complete.

[Lala]

I worked for a shipping company in the 60's. Much of the cargo was TV tubes which were being made in Japan. That was also the time when containerization came into being because the ILA was destroying the shipping industry.

Then I worked for a major airline. I remember the "rag trade" quite well. Our planes were filled with representatives of the clothing industry bringing their designs to Hong Kong to be manufactured. Jordache jeans were selling here for $35.00 a pair. (Some enterprising airline employees would fly over to Hong Kong and buy a few hundred for $1.00 a piece and sell them at the flea markets for $20.00.)

By the way, the major airline closed down. Mis-management big time, union strangle-holds; ridiculous work rules, complicity by the IRS allowing the airline to stop funding its pensions. (I collect my pension from the PBGC, paid for by the good companies that aren't mismanaged.)

But, my question is always this. People lament that we don't have many manufacturing jobs in this country any more. Who among you are raising your children to work on an assembly line or in a factory sewing clothes? I'm not, and I don't know anyone who is. The cry I hear all the time is, GO TO COLLEGE SO YOU WILL EARN A LOT OF MONEY IN A GOOD JOB!!!

[WAHOO WILLIE]

"Who among you are raising your children to work on an assembly line or in a factory sewing clothes?"

Lala you make a great point! I worked all the OT I could get, a second job and did without a hell of alot to send my kids to a private school, then to college so they wouldn't grow up to be lettuce pickers. Unfortunately those of us who raised kids to go to college and become something are the minority. Too many kids drop out and the majority of those left barely slip through HS to graduate. There has to be something for the majority and now with M Obamarama encouraging girls to chose careers that require less education, we may end up with even more 7-11 clerks in the future.