Hillary, The Netroots, Florida And Michigan

Just a quick note on the Democrat's situation as regards Florida and Michigan not having any delegates at the Democrat Convention. Beneath the headlines of the Democrat primary is how the Netroots movement continues to be a huge embarrassment for the Democrat Party.

I realize Hillary is taking heat from some for on going stories suggesting she may try to seat delegations from those two states.

It would be more wise to place blame for that debacle where it belongs - on the Howard Dean led DNC. The penalty imposed upon those two states for moving up their primaries has to be one of the dumbest moves in modern day politics. Contrast that with the Republicans who simply halved the size of the delegations for such states. Any party that would take Florida and Michigan out of their primary calculus has made a grave error.

The question shouldn't be, is it a good idea for Hillary to try and get the delegates seated. Without a close contest, I doubt there was ever any question that they eventually would be. The proper question now is, what is that idiot Dean going to propose to ensure some form of representation for the two states that is also fair to both candidates?

The DNC already blew it once. It'll be interesting to see if they do it, again, somehow. As far as I'm concerned, I wouldn't bet on Howard Dean to get anything right. As the most prominent figure to ever gain some amount of clout as a result of the Netroots movement, he continues to prove more an embarrassment, than he does an asset for the Democrats as a whole.

Comments

[Roy Sulyly]

As it stands ,the consensus is still finding how to fund the Do over in both Michigan and Florida. To my understanding. a rule is arule which is menat to be broken and subsequent penalty follows.

As such, the penalty on the two ststes should stand,if the states that flouted the rules were not ready to pay for Do over. I also hope that people stop nagging on HD, because he would not dance to the tune of Hillary Clinton.

As I have one said that to change the rules at hte middle like this can just ruin the other set rules. If i was HD, by now, without no official appeal from FL and MI, my view shall be the only way the people of these states will vote shall be during the General Election. The other issue of the Sdelegate will also loose their vote equally other than to partake in the general election too.

[Daryl Herbert]

What was truly despicable is what Nancy Pelosi said:

She said that the delegations from both states should be seated unless it would affect the outcome.

In other words:

"We said that your votes wouldn't count, but we will count them. Unless they would count, in which case, we won't count them."

If people have the right to vote but not the right to affect the outcome of an election, then THEY DON'T HAVE THE RIGHT TO VOTE.

I was shocked at how cynical Pelosi's proposal was and how journalists all gave her a free pass. Democrats don't really believe in democracy.

[Yoda]

"Does anyone know why MI. and FL. moved up their primary's."

Short answer: They are retards.

[seekeronos]

I wonder what two national primary days would look like -

a) All the smaller states (less than 10 electoral votes) have theirs on Super Tuesday (first Tues. in February)

b) all the big states (more than 10 electoral votes) have theirs the next month on Super Thursday (first Thurs. in March)

And no more MSM sponsored and moderated debates -- let different 501(c) think-tanks like the Cato Institute, the Heritage Foundation, Focus on the Family, and maybe a liberal one like the Center for American Progress hold debates.

The MSM only gives one sided questions - only the left.

And while we are at it, let's roll over Frank Luntz with an M-1 Abrams tank. Or spear him through with a wooden stake. His "hocus-pocus" groups are sickeningly sycophantic and biased.

[Hogarth]

Her North Korean debacle? Her failure to engender some regime change in Iran?

As compared to the incredible, stellar successes of... exactly who? Her failure to cure AIDs, cancer, and the blight of Michael Moore certainly weigh against her in that calculus too, I'm afraid.

[David M]

The Thunder Run has linked to this post in the - Web Reconnaissance for 03/04/2008 A short recon of what’s out there that might draw your attention, updated throughout the day...so check back often.
http://thunderrun.blogspot.com/2008/03/web-reconnaissance-for-03042008.html

[oldtimer]

Does anyone know why MI. and FL. moved up their primary's. When told they wouldn't be seated at the convention why did they insist on moving the date up anyway?

[Bob Miller]

Doesn't Rice's Mideast debacle count for something? Her North Korean debacle? Her failure to engender some regime change in Iran?

[donevl]

Hey docweasel,

Just a thought.Has anyone considered Condoleezza Rice for VP?
Imagine, if you will, what this woman would bring to the table.

Personal Politics:http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Condoleezza_Rice#Political_positions
Education:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Condoleezza_Rice#High_school_and_university_education
Private Sector:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Condoleezza_Rice#Private_sector
Academic career:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Condoleezza_Rice#Academic_career
Relations with th MSM: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1187194,00.html or http://www.forbes.com/lists/2006/11/06women_Condoleezza-Rice_MTNG.html
Diffusing Identity Politics:http://www.nndb.com/people/205/000024133/
Religion:http://wais.stanford.edu/Religion/religion_CondRice(093003).html
Experience:http://www.google.com/search?num=20&hl=en&safe=off&ct=result&cd=1&q=Condoleezza+Rice+Experience

Doc,
As a 50ish white voter, raised in the Civil Rights-Feminist era, this woman is everything I came to expect possible.
Brilliant, driven, a role model for anyone.
Let's finish this election season, with an event that will make history.
Imagine the reaction from the netroots. Imagine the VP debates.
This could be so much fun!!

ps: sorry for the clutter.typepad does not allow formatted links in your comments.

[Yoda]

Amenable to a dem primary re-do, Gov Crist has stated he is.

[WAHOO WILLIE]

"Several of the newly elected Democrats were not liberals" More than "several" really

Shhhhh don't tell people like LOL that. They are sure there will soon be a government chicken in every pot. LOL said we here (presumably all representatives of repugs) know nothing about "average Americans". SO you see what sort of people we're dealing with Doc? The kind of person who says average Americans know nothing about what average Americans think.

I can't agree that the demonrat offering is worse than the repugnican this cycle and see 4 years of Obamanation.

[Eye Doc]

Dan is correct about 2006. Several of the newly elected Democrats were not liberals, and Dean certainly didn't help them get elected. Dean is pretty much incompetent politically. As for this election, it amazes me how clueless the Democrats are about their chances of winning the Presidency this year. They have two horrible candidates to pick from going up against somebody who is tailor made for this year's race. They're going to feel like a 2x4 hit them right between the eyes on election Day eve when the returns start rolling in.

[Hogarth]

So the aptly pseudonamed 'LOL' thinks the Dems winning in 2006 somehow makes Howard Dean something other than the panting lunatic that he so demonstrably is? Fine, so stipulated. I hope for his next trick, LOL will find some way to reverse that logic and explain (without the infantile crutch of "stolen elections") how that idiot, ape-like Bush beat a brilliant Climate Scientist in 2000, and a celebrated War Hero in 2004.

[LOL]

rofl okay. Just like how Giuliani was going to win Florida? Or how people were going to start voting for Thompson? Or how, at the very least, Romney was going to win on Super Tuesday... puhlease, as if you wingnuts have the faintest idea what the average american thinks. That might involve turning off your TeeVee and going outside and meeting people. I know, it's absurd for me to even imagine you doing so.

[Dan Riehl]

The notion that Dean helped in 2006 is a joke. As mentioned, it was more Rahm, Schumer and others - they recruited anti-nutroots candidates to run in purple states - vets and the like. Heath Schuler is another. Those aren't Dean or nutroots types that gave the Dems their edge. Were it up to Dean, they would have run all liberal idiots and gotten squat for it.

[LoLwut?]

LoL. You miss the point. Winning does not make Dean a good leader. Winning in his case came from good conditions for victory. Hell, Rohm Emmanuel was a much greater contributor to Democratic success in the last election cycle. (And yes, that is all you have had. One election cycle. Not really the sea change you think it is.)

Dean has mismanaged his party to the extent that they are quibbling over their nominee to the last primary. Despite all of the GOP coverage suggesting confusion in the party, they probably hit on their 1st or 2nd best overall pick. The Dems couldn't do that even when the two best picks were obvious.

Dean has done a piss poor job of getting the nomination taken care of. In the process he locked out two states. He has also set conditions for a messy convention. Maybe another riot. Maybe they hurt their standing with the black community. Who knows. One thing is certain, the Netroots confidence has always outstripped its ability.

[Elroy Jetson]

docweasel,
Nice post. I agree 110%. Unfortunately the demos and repubs are not going to agree on the order in which the primaries are played out. We are left with chaos, especially on the donkey side.
Too bad. Pass the popcorn. It is going to be interesting tomorrow and the days ahead.

[Jim Addison]

It never made any sense for either party's National Committee to penalize states by cutting their delegates. Inevitably, key states like perennial battlegrounds Florida and Michigan would be affected. While not many voters would likely stay home or switch their vote in reaction to the slight, in a close election a few is enough - as evidenced by the narrow margins in Florida, New Mexico, Iowa, and New Hampshire in 2000.

Any nominee was virtually certain to restore the lost delegates anyway, for just that reason. The ONLY scenario under which the National Committee's ruling would hold is the one potentially playing out now for the Democrats. It was always a no-win "penalty" - the only possible way it could stick was in a situation where it could hurt the party's chances in the fall.

Oh, well - no one ever claimed the National Committees were composed of the "best and the brightest" on either side, did they?

[Jason]

Actually Mr. McCracken, you seem to be the one being illiterate and petty. The conventions prior to this one used the phrasing "Democrat Convention", "Democrat's Convention" or most appropriately "Democrat National Convention".

The DNC used "Democrat Convention" as the correct term in their paperwork back and forth with Denver in the planning for this one.

Democrat IS the correct adjective and "democratic" is the intentionally misleading/nuanced one.

As for the fever swamps, your criticism of Dan based on this new wordsmithing is straight out of the fever swamp's playbooks. The "use Democratic" meme started around the opening of the 2004 convention, it's still not official terminology as the negotiations with Denver show. I expect you knew that however; as I'm also pretty sure that you're a long term resident of said swamps.

[Dan Riehl]

"at best illiterate and at worst petty"

Unfortunately, if I said "the democratic" party I would more likely be talking about the Republican party. Would you be more happy with "the totalitarian party of super delegates and law suits to overturn election results," perhaps?

Nah, probably best to just use Democrat, as I do now. : )

[RJ]

"... he use of "Democrat" as an adjective looks at best illiterate and at worst petty."

Trust a Democrat to take offense for no good reason. Taking offense is a Democrat thing, I guess.

[Sam McCracken]

No substantive disagreements here, but the use of "Democrat" as an adjective looks at best illiterate and at worst petty. Over in the fever swamps of the left there are all sorts of rude alterations of "Republican." Why follow their example?

[Sam McCracken]

No substantive disagreements here, but the use of "Democrat" as an adjective looks at best illiterate and at worst petty. Over in the fever swamps of the left there are all sorts of rude alterations of "Republican." Why follow their example?

[Heh]

I'm looking for a really long, dragged out primary season for the Dem candidates. It's great fun to watch! Thanks, Howard!

[LOL]

really? since Dean took over the DNC Dems romped the Republicans in 2006. It looks like the Dems are set to once again gain in 2008. But please, continue to practice your blind wishful thinking.