A-CLUueless In San Diego

Couple quick asides before I link this. One topic in particular has been on my mind.I am convinced that liberals are, for the most part, masochistic, which leads into my second but main point.

While it may fall to a generation of freedom loving conservatives as yet unborn, we should take solace in the notion that conservatives are strong on the Second Amendment. While far-Left liberals might just have a "Strawberry Fields" day outside the Democrat convention in Denver this year, if too much freedom continues to disappear in America, it will be the gun owning conservatives that will eventually take it back. Revolution is something of an American tradition, after all.

That said, yes, they are clueless in San Diego.

Yes, even after the ACLU cost them over $900,000 in city tax dollars in their attack on the Mt. Soledad cross, the Sana Diego City Council voted yesterday to pass a resolution “commending the American Civil Liberties Union of the Sana Diego and Imperial Counties for its continuous advocacy for the rights and freedoms of all San Diego” and proclaiming an “American Civil Liberties Union Day” in the City of San Diego.

Comments

[jharp]

"Yes, even after the ACLU cost them over $900,000 in city tax dollars"

Sorry but the city leaders cost the taxpayers $900,000. The ACLU was simply defending the Constitution.

[jharp]

"it will be the gun owning conservatives that will eventually take it back"

The 4th amendment.

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

I've got news for you. The liberals are fighting tooth and nail against the conservatives to protect this one.

Warrantless wiretaps anyone?

[scarshapedstar]

"I am convinced that liberals are, for the most part, masochistic"

Yeah, right. That's why you see so many liberals loudly proclaiming that celibate and sober is the way to be. And that's why so many of them end up hanging themselves with two wetsuits on and a dildo up their ass.

[jharp]

http://www.aclu.org/religion/govtfunding/26524res20060824.html

[Fred Beloit]

A badly confused Harpo writes: "

"Yes, even after the ACLU cost them over $900,000 in city tax dollars"

Sorry but the city leaders cost the taxpayers $900,000. The ACLU was simply defending the Constitution."

However, sorry but the ACLU cost taxpayers $900,000. The Constitution has nothing to do with it.

[Fred Beloit]

Sadly lacking in information, but irrationally passionate, Harpo writes: "Warrantless wiretaps anyone?"

Harpo, can you name any American who has had a warrantless wiretap unreasonably ("...unreasonable searches...") imposed upon him? No? Then what the hell are you talking about?

[Fred Beloit]

scar, you are fabulizing, you idiot. You must be listening to too many Clinton/Obama lies.

[seekeronos]

"--- scar, you are fabulizing, you idiot. ---"

Not too mention just plain disgusting by lowering the discourse here with his perverse obscenity.

[scarshapedstar]

"Not too mention just plain disgusting by lowering the discourse here with his perverse obscenity."

Dude. I did not just make up the two-wetsuits-and-dildo thing. This (late) Baptist preacher did.

http://www.bay-of-fundie.com/archives/242/one-dildo-two-wetsuits-one-dead-fundie

BTW, if the gun nuts aren't pissed off about the government reading all of your mail (physical and electronic) and listening in on all your phone calls, what the hell are they waiting for? This Red Dawn fantasy is hilarious. We already have a Soviet-style domestic spying apparatus; I guess they're waiting for the communal farms before they lock and load?

[Fred Beloit]

"...as Hillary Clinton ran, stooping as much as possible while running, the bullets snapping around her..."
Well, she "misspoke".

seek, have you ever misspoken like this? In other words have you ever told a lying war story you made up to try to make people think you are brave? I doubt it. But I think some of the ACLU folks may have, not to show they are brave but to fool weak-minded judges. They have convinced the judges that "Congress shall make no law regarding the establishment of religion" means "allow no religious symbols, except Islamic ones, on local government property."

mis·speak (ms-spk)
v. mis·spoke (-spk), mis·spo·ken (-spkn), mis·speak·ing, mis·speaks
v.tr.
To speak or pronounce incorrectly: The lead actor misspoke his lines.
v.intr.
To speak mistakenly, inappropriately, or rashly.

[Fred Beloit]

The logic of scar is "One does it. Everybody is one (individually). Ergo They all do it." QED. A truly great leap for the study of Logic.

By that logic, scar tells lying war stories.

[WAHOO WILLIE]

Willie pulls out his .45 and unloads a barage of "how many wrongs make a right?"

"We already have a Soviet-style domestic spying apparatus."

So where were you, were you as outraged......when Bill Clinton did the same thing? Or is there some difference between listening in on domestric calls as opposed to O/S calls to your terrorist cousins?

[Fred Beloit]

Get this by scar. Everything is every thing:

"BTW, if the gun nuts aren't pissed off about the government reading all of your mail (physical and electronic) and listening in on all your phone calls..."

Seek, did you know that the government is reading your mail. See the government has placed some tiny people into every mail box. They have a little steamer. They steam open your mail, read it taking photos or voluminous notes, then seal it again.

Yet, for some unknown reason scar is totally unafraid to criticize the government and tell outrageous lies about what they are up to on a very public blog.

[WAHOO WILLIE]

"This (late) Baptist preacher did."

I guess this has something to do with anything. I thought it was only people like the reverend who had issues with what people do in their own bed rooms? Apparently the "tolerant" left does as well.

[WAHOO WILLIE]

"Seek, did you know that the government is reading your mail."

SO that's how Mary Cheney got the recipe for my mom's banana pudding. THOSE BASTIDS!!!!

[templar knight]

Good morning, gents. I have some great news on the energy front, even if it is off-topic, it is of interest.

Chesapeake Energy announced yesterday that they had discovered a natural
gas field in No. Louisiana and So. Arkansas. The field contains up to 20
trillion(yes, 20,000,000,000,000) cubic feet of natural gas, which will
make it one of the largest natural gas finds in history. The gas is pre-
sent in a formation called the Haynesville Shale, which is 200 feet thick,
and over 10,000 feet below the surface.

[WAHOO WILLIE]

SO we should buy stock and cause the price to go up?

[templar knight]

The smart money is ahead of you on that one, Willie. But I couldn't help but think about the Boob when I read that announcement by Chesapeake, and think about how much money those rednecks in Arkansas and Louisiana are going to get. White trash with money, lots and lots of money.

[WAHOO WILLIE]

"White trash with money, lots and lots of money."

DaBoob seems to have "no visible means of support" but is not a vagrant so I'm willing to bet he's already got his stocks in Chesapeake.

[jharp]

Templar,

That is good news. Very disappointing that we have mucked things up in Iraq as we actually might have our economy moving forward on good news such as yours.

"One of southern Iraq's two main oil export pipelines has been severely damaged in a bomb attack, officials said today.

The bombing of the pipeline, seven miles south of Basra, came as clashes between Iraqi security forces and Shia fighters in the port city entered a third day.

"This morning, saboteurs blew up the pipeline transporting crude from [the] Zubair 1 [oil plant] by placing bombs beneath it," an oil company official said.

"Crude exports will be greatly affected because this is one of two main pipelines transporting crude to the southern terminals. We will lose about a third of crude exported through Basra.""

[templar knight]

Could be, Willie, as I know quite a few liberals who are making their money in the oil and gas business, and leaving quite the carbon footprint. You may draw what conclusion you may from these facts, but hypocrite always crosses my mind.

[templar knight]

I'll have to get back to you, jharp. Sorry.

[WAHOO WILLIE]

""Crude exports will be greatly affected because this is one of two main pipelines transporting crude to the southern terminals. We will lose about a third of crude exported through Basra.""

Harpie, do you have some reason to believe we would be getting the oil if Saddam was still in charge?

[jharp]

I don't know.

What was the price of oil when Saddam was in charge?

$30 a barrel?

[WAHOO WILLIE]

I don't remember and we'd likely be getting the oil under the oil for food thing. You do know there's a glut in supply and futures traders are who is causing the rise in prices right now? LLama will be here soon telling us how whatever we do is stop gap and we need to plant more corn so let me be the first to say: "we know that"

[jharp]

I had heard supplies had increased which is certainly good news. I think folks are driving less which is both good and bad.

I've never understood the traders having much influence on the price. Doesn't supply and demand determine the price?

Though I do realize oil is not a perfectly competitive market. (Oligopoly)

[Lala]

The Falkland Islands will be cashing in on oil soon -

Drilling for oil to start in Falkland Islands

By Jasper Copping
Last Updated: 12:55am GMT 09/03/2008

The inhabitants of the Falkland Islands are preparing for a South Atlantic oil rush which they hope will make them among the richest people in the world.

A fisherman moors a trawler in the Falklands
The fishing industry has been the largest contributor to the economy of the Falkand Islands

After 10 years of frustrating delays since oil fields containing up to 60 billion barrels of "black gold" were discovered off the islands, oil companies are planning to start drilling within the next 12 months.

The move follows the conclusion of lengthy, but successful, tests by geologists and significant cash injections by two major oil companies which plan to bring rigs to the islands by as early as autumn.

The companies with licences to drill in the area met in Edinburgh on Friday to brief officials from the Falklands' government on their progress, and preparations are under way in the South Atlantic to ensure that the islands can cope with sudden wealth.

The successful extraction of oil could bring billions of pounds to the 3,000 islanders, in a cash bonanza similar to that enjoyed by Gulf states after the development of oil fields there.

[WAHOO WILLIE]

Are the Falklands still British or did they end up giving them to Argentina?

[jharp]

Wahoo,

"So where were you, were you as outraged......when Bill Clinton did the same thing?"

Bill Clinton did not do the same thing. And yes I am aware of the hacks at National Review lying that he did.

And if he did, which he clearly did not, I'd be just as outraged.

[jharp]

Buffalo, NY

April 2004

From Whitehouse.gov President Bush speaking.

"Now, by the way, any time you hear the United States government talking about wiretap, it requires — a wiretap requires a court order. Nothing has changed, by the way. When we’re talking about chasing down terrorists, we’re talking about getting a court order before we do so. It’s important for our fellow citizens to understand, when you think Patriot Act, constitutional guarantees are in place when it comes to doing what is necessary to protect our homeland, because we value the Constitution."

Do any of the Bush apologists have any problems with this?

An out and out clear cut lie, right in the face of all of us.

Retroactive immunity anyone?

[WAHOO WILLIE]

Warrantless Wiretapping

The Supreme Court has recognized that electronic surveillance, such as wiretapping and eavesdropping, impinges on the privacy rights of individuals and organizations and is therefore subject to the Fourth Amendment's warrant clause. [65] President Clinton, however, has asked Congress to pass legislation that would give the Federal Bureau of Investigation the power to use "roving wiretaps" without a court order. [66] The president also fought for sweeping legislation that is forcing the telephone industry to make its network more easily accessible to law enforcement wiretaps. Those initiatives have led ACLU officials to describe the Clinton White House as "the most wiretap-friendly administration in history." [67]

[WAHOO WILLIE]

January 1, 1995: New Law Gives US Government Better Ability to Wiretap US Phones The Communications Assistance for Law Enforcement Act (CALEA) takes effect. CALEA obliges telecommunications providers such as AT&T to give law enforcement agencies and US intelligence organizations the ability to wiretap any domestic or international telephone conversations carried over their networks. In more recent years, the law will be expanded to give law enforcement and intelligence agencies similar abilities to monitor Internet usage by US citizens. [Federal Communications Commission, 2/21/2007]
Entity Tags: Communications Assistance for Law Enforcement Act (CALEA), AT&T
Timeline Tags: Civil Liberties

[WAHOO WILLIE]

http://archive.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2005/12/19/114807.shtml

Geeze Harpie, I could spend hours on this. Why dont you just spend some time googling "Echelon"

[jharp]

"President Clinton, however, has asked Congress to pass legislation that would give the Federal Bureau of Investigation the power to use "roving wiretaps" without a court order."

Thanks, Willie.

You see the difference I assume.

Clinton asked Congress to pass a law.

Bush, on the other hand, ignored and broke the law.

That is why Bush is demanding retroactive immunity in the Protect America Act. Even promising to veto it sans immunity for the lawbreakers.

[WAHOO WILLIE]

OK Harpie, last one I promise. This one is just to show you that *EVERY* admin since the forties has been doing this crap that you think the evil genious invented:

http://www.www.cooperativeresearch.org/context.jsp?item=civilliberties_99#civilliberties_99

[WAHOO WILLIE]

"Bush, on the other hand, ignored and broke the law."

You might want to research a little deeper what congress & courts told Clinton about "roving" and national security

[jharp]

NewsMax? Please Willie.

The right-wing outlet NewsMax sums up the basic argument:

During the 1990’s under President Clinton, the National Security Agency monitored millions of private phone calls placed by U.S. citizens and citizens of other countries under a super secret program code-named Echelon…all of it done without a court order, let alone a catalyst like the 9/11 attacks.

That’s flatly false.

The Clinton administration program, code-named Echelon, complied with FISA. Before any conversations of U.S. persons were targeted, a FISA warrant was obtained. CIA director George Tenet testified to this before Congress on 4/12/00:

I’m here today to discuss specific issues about and allegations regarding Signals Intelligence activities and the so-called Echelon Program of the National Security Agency…

There is a rigorous regime of checks and balances which we, the Central Intelligence Agency, the National Security Agency and the FBI scrupulously adhere to whenever conversations of U.S. persons are involved, whether directly or indirectly. We do not collect against U.S. persons unless they are agents of a foreign power as that term is defined in the law. We do not target their conversations for collection in the United States unless a FISA warrant has been obtained from the FISA court by the Justice Department.

[jharp]

And once again Willie, even if Clinton's program was against the law, which it was not.

Two wrongs do not make a right.

[jharp]

Willie,

"Bush, on the other hand, ignored and broke the law."

"You might want to research a little deeper what congress & courts told Clinton about "roving" and national security"

This is not about Clinton. It is about Bush.

Doesn't matter what Clinton did though the right wingers tried to trot out the "since Clinton broke the law" it is OK for Bush to break the law.

Even though Clinton got the FISA warrants and was fully within the law.

Not very conservative of you, Willie.

[jharp]

Willie,

Kindly explain this.

From Whitehouse.gov President Bush speaking.

"Now, by the way, any time you hear the United States government talking about wiretap, it requires — a wiretap requires a court order. Nothing has changed, by the way. When we’re talking about chasing down terrorists, we’re talking about getting a court order before we do so. It’s important for our fellow citizens to understand, when you think Patriot Act, constitutional guarantees are in place when it comes to doing what is necessary to protect our homeland, because we value the Constitution."

Do any of the Bush apologists have any problems with this?

[WAHOO WILLIE]

"I’m here today to discuss specific issues"

NEWSMAX is bad but your direct C&P from Democrats.com is ok? Yeah, I saw it too. The ACLU says the "warrants" issued for Clinton's admin were rubber stamped. Course, I guess ACLU is about as right wing as they come.

ANd absolutely no, am I saying this wrong makes another right. The point is that "your" government has been spying on you forever. If you weren't so hell bent on trying to place blame, you'd see it and perhaps those of us who believe in the Constitution could do something about it. On the other hand, it wwas you and yours who whined that in his whole 9 months in office Bush did nothing to stop the WTC destruction. IF! Some phone calls had been listened to, it may have been averted. SO basically he's wronmg for doing nothing and still wrong for trying to correct it. Your answer is only to change administrations and it will all go away...........until 250 FBI files turn up on the first lady's desk.......or someone's passport info is abused.......

[WAHOO WILLIE]

Here ya go Harpie, another right wing organization:

http://www.aclu.org/privacy/spying/15440pub19980301.html

[seekeronos]

"--- I've never understood the traders having much influence on the price. Doesn't supply and demand determine the price? ---"

The traders -- especially uber rich funds management firms and funds have MASSIVE control over the prices of commodities. They have their pros who not only keep ahead of the sector rotation (of various market sectors - some of which rise in fall in relationship to other sectors' rising and falling) but can actually influence _when_ a given sector is going to expand or tank.

In a way, these traders are the financial analogue to political lobbyists; they want to change market conditions by throwing palette loads of cash at it.

Watch the commodities markets in particular - grain, oil and gold. While market forces are pushing up the price of these commodities (oil: by both genuine constrictions in the supply chain and manufactured shortages to feed the ethanol lobby; grain: by re-allocation of grain crops for use in ethanol production; gold: going up alongside oil as a factor of a weakened dollar and run-away minting presses)...

...the traders play their hand into. I'm expecting gradual price drop (or at least a marked flattening of the inflationary curve) in grain futures and crude oil futures in the next few weeks, and likely Gold (and other precious metals) as well.

Chesapeake Energy Co. looks like it might have some serious potential, in conjunction with a new public offering in the works.
http://online.barrons.com/public/quotes/main.html?symbol_or_name=CHK&x=0&y=0&sym_name_switch=symbol

Public Offering Info:

http://online.barrons.com/article/PR-CO-20080326-905115.html

[jharp]

Waillie,

"Bush did nothing to stop the WTC destruction."

Yes, he ignored warnings, specifically "Bin Laden determined to attack in the U.S."

And he had the tools to wiretap. Certainly you have heard of FISA. You know, the law that allows you to wiretap for 72 hours without a warrant if necessary. Then get one from the FISA court. (They've denied about 6 out of 15,000 since 1978)

"direct C&P from Democrats.com is ok"

My copy and paste was from George Tenets testimony to Congress. You know, the guy Bush awarded the medla of freedom to.

"ANd absolutely no, am I saying this wrong makes another right. The point is that "your" government has been spying on you forever."

You keep insisting two wrongs don't make a right and keep citing other wrongdoing to justify Bush's wrongdoing. I don't understand.

Why don't you splain this?

From Whitehouse.gov President Bush speaking.

"Now, by the way, any time you hear the United States government talking about wiretap, it requires — a wiretap requires a court order. Nothing has changed, by the way. When we’re talking about chasing down terrorists, we’re talking about getting a court order before we do so. It’s important for our fellow citizens to understand, when you think Patriot Act, constitutional guarantees are in place when it comes to doing what is necessary to protect our homeland, because we value the Constitution."

Do any of the Bush apologists have any problems with this?

[jharp]

seekeronos,

Thanks for the explanation. I'm sure there is some accuracy but I still don't quite get it. It's my, not your shortcoming.

I can understand some short term swings but can't really see it having a significant effect.

This by way is from a guy who is in the trading business, not commodities but consumer goods.

I see you must be a trader too. Thanks for the tip on Chesapeak but I'll pass. I think the stock traders and underwriters are even more dishonest than our republican politicians.

The Bear Stearns, JPM, Lehman, situation has me plenty pissed.

[templar knight]

"I think the stock traders and underwriters are even more dishonest than our republican politicians."

You should have said politicians, and I would agree 100%. Although the media tries to hide the party of Democrats charged with crimes, we can always guess. The latest mess in Detroit and New York state are cases in point.

[jharp]

Alright. I agree. I should have said politicians.

Clearly the democrats have plenty of crooks but nothing in my life has come close to the administration of George Bush. And it very well might be that he is simply the dumbest and most incompetent crook. I'll give you that.

Just what is his greatest accomplishment?

[WAHOO WILLIE]

Harpie: How old are you?

[jharp]

47

You?

[WAHOO WILLIE]

52