Bill Quick: War For The GOP

More of a chess game that's going to last awhile, no matter what happens in 2008. I have a draft post on this I'm toying with. But it needs cleaning up. Here's Bill's take.

Comments

[Terry]

To borrow a little from Glenn Reynolds, Bill Quick has seriously beclowned himself with that post. On this subject, I sure agree with Rachael Lucas:

"I know some say that they’d rather 'have the country ruined' by a real liberal than by a RINO. You know what that sounds like? Something you’d read on DailyKos." . . .

Don’t get excited. I don’t like a lot of his record, particularly a long list of quotes he’s given about class warfare and taxes. I think he’s nuts to want the Gitmo population put into American prisons. YEAH RIGHT. I think he’s an asshole for things he’s said and supported about gun shows.

And I don’t even have enough curse words in my brain to communicate my opinions about McCain-Feingold. Jesus on a muffin, that is some bad, bad stuff.

BUT.

Seriously, people. Seriously. You’d rather have Hillary? You’d rather have Obama?

I don’t even know you.

[Sara]

No Terry, I'd rather that Republicans stop being such defeatocrats and vote for Romney. Go Mitt!

[Dan Riehl]

Terry, take a valium. It isn't a secret that these schisms exist with the GOP. And politics is about power for many people. Reagan did a similar thing, following up to Goldwater, Bush did, too. But he seized it back from the Reagan folks - though no faction has ever actually controlled the whole mechanism.

If having people point it out drives you over the edge, don't attack the messenger for it. You think it's any difference than the netroots and the people behind them battling with the DLC is any different? You'd be wrong. Look at the way the DLC and Blue Dogs are being marginalized right now. The conservative movement is the Dem version of the DLC. Now, some people want to fight for the segment of the party on the Right.

If you look at the Dem dynamic plus the GOP dynamic, if cons lose power within the GOP, the whole mess shifts Left. Some of us aren't prepared to let that happen to the country. If you moderate when your opponent shifts Left, you have a new center. Just how far Left are you prepared to let America go? Because that's the America our children will inherit.

[Emily]

I agree with much of it. Along those lines, I've begun to believe that Ron Paul is a creation of George W. Bush meaning that because of Bush's sharp move to the Left vis a vis multiculturalism (which undergirds Iraq nation building, No Child Left Behind, Affirmative Action, encouraging mixed-income neighborhoods, etc.). If there was no Ron Paul, somebody would have had to invent him. For Ron Paul's supporters, even Romney is too much of a compromise.

When my husband and I were going door to door for Bush in 2004, we were struck at how the poorer, working-class Republicans responded to us. Some were stoically for Bush because of the war. The others, however, shocked us. Many were actually despondent and at the time and I don't use that word lightly. There was literally one woman who sat at my husband's feet on front porch steps to her trailer, and wouldn't look him in the eyes and said, "nobody cares about us" (meaning poorer, white people who work and aren't criminals). We could not make sense of it at the time. Why did they feel left behind? I see now that they were the canaries in the coal mine. Worrying about the health of the middle class: being able to afford families, keep them safe, etc., the things that Republicans get elected to office became lower priority. In fact, many of the policies aimed at wooing the poor and underclass have had a detrimental effect on the middle class. Moreover, the bad effects are being felt by richer people as time goes by. Sadly, Bush ran as a pro- middle-class guy in 2000 and instantly delivered on the child tax credit and a pay raise for the military (which I was in at the time; we were so excited!).

Even if Romney were to somehow win, he would have a tough road, due to the most dogmatic Ron Paul supporters (every demographic evidence I've seen tells me that many of Paul's supporters are filled with the likes of those despondents we met four years ago); The road ahead for McCain? Impossible. Those Ron Paul supporters will be met with a few Romney supporters.

[Emily]

Sorry for all the errors. I meant it was sad that Bush started off so well and then veered to the Left.

[Sara]

Oh boo hoo. Don't you guys ever get tired of ginning up class warfare? I'm on a very minimal fixed income and below the poverty line and I don't expect the President (of any year or any party) to take care of me or do for me. The President is NOT the nation's Daddy or, in the potential case of Hillary, Mommy.

[Emily]

Sara,
You fundamentally don't understand. These were proud people who didn't want to be taken care of, never asked for a dime. Their schools have suffered, their wages have stagnated, and even for some, people from the projects are moved next door to them at taxpayer's expense driving down whatever house values they had AND increasing the likelihood that they will be the victims of violent crime.

[Emily]

http://www.11alive.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=80692

The ax that was put into this little boy's head wasn't ginned up and, typically, the less likely you are able to afford "insulation", the more likely you are to suffer violent crime. What are elites do not understand is that many people have suffered. One of the main points of Charles Murray's, "The Bell Curve" was that
a. Society was stratifying along I.Q.
b. The high I.Q. ruling elite would be less able to understand what life is like for others and thus would have a hard time understanding or even seeing the consequences of policies they enact for a long time.

[Dan Riehl]

Sara,

I didn't take Emily's comment as class warfare FWIW. She didn't appear to be talking about people looking for a hand out. Globalization and other trends are making life harder in parts of America. Look at some of the old steel towns in PA, now basically home to depressed populations, drug cultures fueled by unemployment, crime, etc. The liberal solution is already being applied there - it isn't working. The GOP needs to create a genuine message of invigoration for such areas.

All the more reason to fight the John McCains. With the global warming nonsense, higher taxes across the board to support even more social programs, we make it harder and harder for American business to thrive in America. WIthout becoming protectionist, we have to get better at keeping America competitive, or rish shipping even more industry off shore.

With McCain's demogoging of business, there's no reason to think his policies would prove good for America as a whole. We need less government and less regulation. And that ain't McCain - he's a big government guy, whether he admits it, or not.

[Sara]

I've known extremely wealthy people and very very poor people and, having worked for years as a volunteer at a battered women's shelter, some people in terrible circumstances due to violent crime, abuse, drugs and alcohol. One thing I've learned is that the state of one's bank account has little to do with one's happiness or their quality of life, unless they are willing to play victim or to settle for less than is possible.

The son of a friend of mine and a close friend to my own son, complains constantly about how put upon he feels and how the deck is stacked against him and those like him. Whine, whine, whine. Yes he is married with 3 kids to feed and yes they can't afford luxuries, but he is the one who chose to drop out of school in 11th grade, it is he that started his own business and then thinks he is too good to take a small job, even if he can't make the rent because of his pride. He is the one who barely let his wife leave the house without him for years and refused to consider the idea of her working, even though they got evicted for non payment and had their utilities cut off. I guarantee if you came to his doorstep, you'd hear a boat full of despondent. Funny, though, his 2 sisters and brother come from the same background of a working Mom and no Dad around and they own their own homes plus rental property, they travel to Europe or Brazil, they drive nice cars and have money to invest. And, they think life and the U.S. has treated them rather well. And somehow, that working Mom of 4 managed to raise those kids and rise from a mail room job at a newspaper when she was 17 to being the manager of the advertising department and retire with a very nice pension after 30 years. Victimhood is the root and the root of victimhood and despondency is born in liberalism.

[Sara]

Dan, you don't have to be looking for a handout to be included in class warfare. Class warfare comes out of the idea that their isn't equal opportunity to move between the classes. Classes that are based on education, money, breeding, race, gender, or whatever.

I hear you on the steel towns. I'm originally from Johnstown. Watched that town die when the steel industry went down and then to add insult to injury, saw it wiped out by the last big flood. Unemployment over 30%, the young people leaving in droves. Yet, just a few years later they were regrouping and they were not ready to give up, and I don't mean just because Jack Murtha brought the his dollars to town, there were many private groups working to revitalize the area. I'm talking about a mindset of those who came from solid hardworking people and who refused to believe in defeat.

[Sara]

I don't mean to come off cold. I have deep compassion for those in true need. I just don't have much patience with people who blame the government for their woes or think that somehow the government can make their lives better.

[Sara]

If they really want to have an effect on the government, they should start in their own neighborhoods, branch out from there to their city councils, county councils, state legislatures, before they look toward the Feds. And when they do look, they shouldn't think that one person, in the form of the President, is going to do it for them. Look at the mess we call New Orleans, LA. Totally inept mayor, crooked Congresscritter, clueless governor, yet somehow it is all Bush's fault. If he hadn't flown on to his destination, rather than land and have a photo op on the tarmac, their lives would have been all hunky dory. I can't help it, it frosts the heck out of me.

[seekeronos]

McCain can't beat Hills or Obama.

[syn]

So McCain's record on no taxes cuts, on anti-capitalism, on closing Gitmo, on bringing enemy combatants to our soil, on no drilling in America, on Al Gore Greenie addiction, on legalizing law-breakers means he'll be a better CIC than either Clinton or Obama?

With his notorious temper, I don't believe it; McCain would be as nasty as Hillary and as deceptive as Obama.

As for the war I want the candidate who calls the enemy by who and what it is, it isn't Iraq but Islamic Jihad. Walid Phares made the best case yet as for why Romney is best suited to fight Jihad plus the fact that the Mormon faith is excellent with regard to disaster preparedness and survival tactics I do believe Romney will put that principle to good use for our fine military men and women.

[Terry Gain]

Syn

Great post Can you provide a link to Phares ? How does mcCain describe the enemy. Is he like Bush afraid to use words like Islamist or Jihad. War on terror. What an absurd phrase. You can't win a war if you are afraid to identify the enemy.

[Terry Gain]

Here's the link

http://www.walidphares.com/artman/publish/article_1599.shtml

[Fred Beloit]

Emily = socialist, troll, sock puppet. Those who volunteer to help Republicans get elected don't sell anecdotal BS like this. Like that great, strapping, pony-tailed, young man who was planted in the audience of a Bush One TV town hall: " What about us? What about us? [sob, sob]" The president is our daddy. We don't need no stinkin' charities. We can force money from each other to help the poor. Much better plan, no? The government takes from me $100. They take about 45% of that to pay their own salaries and health care. They take another 10% for earmarks to ensure they are reelected. Then there's overhead and inefficiency 15%. Then there is paid sick leave, weather you are sick or not %5, and on it goes. [Figures estimated, not actual.]You can have that system. I'll take voluntary charitable giving, if the government would let me keep a little more of my own G------ money.

[Fred Beloit]

"I was working with my spouse for the Ned Lamont campaign in the low-cost housing areas of Bridgeport, CT. My heroes are Kos and Huff. What we found was astonishing. Benzes and Porches parked all around near Mazaraties and Lotuses. The ladies would come to the door in minks praising the largesse of the government, and laughing at the folks going off to work to support...them. Sorry for all the errors. I began to see the truth. I meant it was sad that Bush started off so well and then veered to the Right. Will Romney end this nightmare life for the masses? No, only McCain could do so."

Sure, Emily. Pull the other one.