It's On: "I Hate The Gooks"

Update: I didn't read the date - this is from 2000. Drudge has it up. Not sure how this plays. But, as I said below, the gloves are obviously off.

Yeah, the gloves are coming off. When I clicked in, I'm thinking, okay, how long ago was this? Um ... yesterday??? To the media??? Bad move. Straight talk. McCain hasn't healed psychologically post-captivity. We now live in a world with a lot of "gooks." A tasteless Drudge header - "Flashback?" From yesterday? That's over the line, too. Obviously used in the worse sense of the word without cause.

Greenville, S.C. -- Arizona Sen. John McCain refused to apologize yesterday for his use of a racial slur to condemn the North Vietnamese prison guards who tortured and held him captive during the war.

``I hate the gooks,'' McCain said yesterday in response to a question from reporters aboard his campaign bus. ``I will hate them as long as I live.''

McCain, a former Navy pilot who spent five years in a Vietnamese prisoner of war camp, was questioned about the language because of a story last month in the Nation magazine reporting his continued use of the slur.

Since then, reports of McCain's language have been circulating on Internet chat sites and e-mails among Asian Americans, many of whom find the the term offensive and inappropriate for an elected official.

Comments

[scarshapedstar]

Hey, why shouldn't we have a President who will "hate" a nation with Most Favored trading status "as long as he lives"?

[What's Going On Here?]

The MSM love affair ends.

This guy is a nut case, we would be better off with the racist Ron Paul at this point.

I guess I'll start reading survival guides and stock piling food. It is all but over for the late great USA.

***sigh***

[TheSpartan]

Ok, now he sounds like a republican.

[WAHOO WILLIE SEZ:]

Not trying to excuse the use of "racial slurs" in any case but let's keep a couple things in mind while we're so reticent to forgive. The statement was about a specifically small group of people NOT all Asians. This small group of people, together with thier Chinese and Cuban allies, did a wee bit more to these prisoners than throw water in thier faces or make them wear panties on thier heads. Yes, he should be a bit more restrained in his hatred but some of the rest of us could step down from the high horse and try a little understanding.

[Fred Beloit]

Scar, who said he hated a nation? What he hates are some of the people of that nation, those who were his captors and torturers. Of course he hates them. If I were he, I'd hate them too. At every opportunity, I would be highly likely to say bad things about them. (Oh, I know you would be more magnanimous. Sure you would.)

But hate the nation of Vietnam? Not John.

"Leading the effort to normalize ties with Vietnam were three senators who served in the Vietnam War: Sens. John Kerry, D-Mass., Chuck Hagel, R-Neb., and John McCain, R-Ariz., a former prisoner of war."

Read all about it here: http://asianweek.com/2001_10_12/biz_viet1.html

I don't support McCain for the same reason some of the Left-wing MSM like him. He is not a conservative. But fair is fair.

[Dan Riehl]

"fair is fair"

As I noted, it's 8 yrs. old. which I didnt realize at the time - Drudge link. BUT - to be fair - you can't have a President defend that remark. Bad judgment. He has to keep his "justifiable" anger to himself. It goes with the job.

[WAHOO WILLIE SEZ:]

"He has to keep his "justifiable" anger to himself. It goes with the job."

Or, even be more specific about whom he hates

That isn't the way you put it friend.

[Dan Riehl]

"the way you put it"

BS. I suppose if one is in prison and mistreated by black guards, it's fine to call them "niggers.?" Oh, but I just mean "them." Doesn't cut it, my friend. He can call them SOB's, anything else - but a racial slur is a racial slur.

[Fred Beloit]

Certainly his judgment record leaves room for criticism. It is at times heroic, at other times...quixotic, strange, unpredictable, extremely hard to defend. I'm glad I won't have to defend it because I don't think he will be the next Republican president. I am however defending his understandable, at least to me, reactions toward his former captors.

[Allen Wood]

Saying "I hate the gooks" and talking about a small group of people is just like saying "I hate the niggers" while talking about gang violence or something. Its extremely offensive and racist. The simple fact that he would use the racist word "gook" instead of saying "I hate those prison guards and will till I die" makes him look pretty racist.

[WAHOO WILLIE SEZ:]

"but a racial slur is a racial slur."

Yes, I said the same thing with different words. You're right.

[Fred Beloit]

"Oh, my former torturers? They would be offended? Well, then I'll just call them 'our Asian friends'. I certainly wouldn't want to violate their sensitivity zones."

[seekeronos]

"Gook" is a perjorative word for people of Asian ancestry, especially in use among G.I.s during the Vietnamese and Korean conflict.

It derives from the Korean word "Hanguk", which is actually a proper name for the the Korean nation - particularly in The Republic of Korea (South Korea). It literally means "Han Country".

North Koreans would rather refer to their nation as Choson, which is a derivation of the ancient Joseon kingdom

Hanguk is read in Hangul script as 한국 and in the Chinese characters as 韓國

But McCain apparently has justified his continued and unapologetic use of the racist term "gook" well after his unfortunate capture and detention by the North Vietnamese.

SO... this is what you RINOs want as our president: An unstable, racist old man on the edge of dementia and whose body could sucumb to the ravages of melanoma any day now.

Wake up, Americans!

[Fred Beloit]

"We're on to something here. Perhaps torturers and captors are words too harsh for modern ears. Let's just say they were Asian persons charged with protecting me and amusing me with their little well-meant rough-house games."

[seekeronos]

Ok... I'll tone down my McDS for a few seconds and note that McCain does have a certain justifiable anger toward his captors... and has not hated the nation per se.

But his use of racist language (using terms which tend to apply to a very large group of people and not just the NVA/Viet Cong or even his immediate captors) in a public forum is highly unreasonable, especially when said well after the war and after his release from captivity.

It marks the man (perhaps unfairly) as someone with racial prejudice as opposed to someone who has a reasonable amount of antipathy toward his former captors.

[Fred Beloit]

"This is 2008. Let's leave ethnicity and insensitivity out of language altogether. I was protected from the outside world by some civic-minded, public employees who thought I could stand to lose a few pounds and have a facial and massage once in a while. The only time I disliked them was of course when they called me a 'yank'. Hearing that finally broke me. It was unbearable. It was awful."

[BobinStamford]

The party of George "Macaca" Allen is outraged. This is funny stuff. Complete the mission, patriots!

[Fred Beloit]

Boob, you yank, you. Oh, terribly sorry. It just slipped out. I obviously need some sensitivity training provided by our friends the Democratics.

[Scrapiron]

Why would McCain not hate the gooks? 'Any' living breathing person that went through what he went through and won't say they hate the gooks is a flat out liar and worse. I'm a Vietnam vet and don't feel obligated to vote for McCain and won't vote for him (I'll leave it blank), but that is based on his time in the Senate, not the terror he suffered in captavity. On the other side we have a family with a 40 year history of crime and a radical Islamist (deny it if you want) who just collected $32 million in one month, from who? The people that would actually love to see your headless body on a spike or send you through a wood chipper, alive. I'm old and will make it and you will live with what you elect out of some stupid idea that American style freedon is wrong for the world.

[Fred Beloit]

Do re mi mi mi: "Yankee Doodle went to town, riding on a pony, stuck a feather in his hat, and called it macaroni."

Bwaah boo hoo. They are signing spiteful, malicious, and hateful songs about my ethnicity. Waaah Waaah. We need more laws against this hateful behavior.

[Gawdfather]

Dan, you are an idiot. McCain officially apologized for this, eight fucking years ago. http://www.asianam.org/mccain.htm

Stay home and pout in November like a little bitch. Or go ahead and vote for Hillary or Obama, out of spite. McCain will win without you.

[Fred Beloit]

I completely disagree with Gawd. You are not an idiot, Dan. You are also not the only one who ran this dated story. Why it was originally run as if were "news" we can guess at. Nor are you a little bitch. You are a normal-sized y--k. You run a great blog. You are a true gentleman. (What else can I do to get back in your good graces?)

[TheSpartan]

"SO... this is what you RINOs want as our president: An unstable, racist old man on the edge of dementia"

Wait, are we talking about Reagan?

[Fred Beloit]

"(What else can I do to get back in your good graces?)" This goes for you too, seek.

[seekeronos]

Hate the sin, not the sinner.

Yes, it's glib... and undoubtedly anyone who is/has been a POW is entitled to his private thoughts and opinions about either his captors or those captor's particular race.

But there is such a thing as when not to bring those racial hatreds into the public square.

John McCain did that - and as such, invalidates himself to any self-respecting American, much more someone who is of Asian descent.

I'm not talking about creating any laws or restricting free speech, I am talking about doing what is *decent*. Personal responsibility - I'm sure we all here can jibe with that.

On the other hand, if you want to be jerk that may well only be remembered for your particular racial disaffection on account of a few of them did some very nasty things to your person half a lifetime ago -- that is your right.

But if you want to become an elected public official, it sure helps not to go about tossing hot-button words like frag grenades into the crowd where it might affect your (no pun intended) target audience you just might want to vote for you.

[WAHOO WILLIE SEZ:]

Hey Spartyboy, you're acting like boobindabasement and everyone is losing respect for you

[WAHOO WILLIE SEZ:]

seeker: You have a conflict of interest here.

[TheSpartan]

Ok, two things...

One, I'm not here looking for respect.

Two, tell me how my statement was inaccurate?

[Fred Beloit]

Let's start with the first statement, Spart. Most here are not RINOs.

[Coffee260]

Can’t recall Reagan referring to himself as a “Straight Talker”. He didn’t need to, it was self evident.

[TheSpartan]

Ok, that line was a direct quote from Seekronos...did you notice those two funny little marks before and after those things called 'words'? "..."

[TheSpartan]

If your "Straight Talk" is wrong, who cares?

[Fred Beloit]

Spart, you asked why YOUR STATEMENT was wrong. Shouldn't you have asked why seek's statement was wrong? Didn't you notice you had put quotation marks around seek's statement that you then called yours?

[Fred Beloit]

Beware of the site SFGate.com. They presented an 8-year-old story from the Frisco (they hate that name) Chronicle as if it were "news", those scalliwags.

[seekeronos]

My jab at the RINOs was intended at the more ... vocal McCain supporters (Roy Mustang, Gawdfather, among others not posting in this specific thread) who have been commenting on what a great guy McCain is and how those of us who disagree with Johnny Mac's train wreck should just go jump in the lake.

My other point (specific politicians aside) is that some degree of civility (and yes, I am guilty of going off the deep end in a few threads with a bout of my own McCDS, for which I shall strive to keep sedated) is the better part of getting others to see one's side of an argument.

Tossing around racially charged words that are the verbal equivalent to nuclear weapons (you know what they are, no need to repeat them) is probably not a good way to remembered.

Granted that Johnny Mac suffered through a captivity and was subjected to barbaric practices that no nation or group making a claim to being a civilised society should inflict upon another human -- but at its most basic and brutal level, war is war, and stuff like that happens.

It is common to all men of all places, races, and times. In fact, it is almost to be expected in time of war, especially to captives captured in an enemy homeland when operations are conducted over that homeland. It is why the US Code of Conduct for captured personnel exists, and why that particular episode in McCain's life is perhaps the one thing that stands to redeem him from his political treacheries.

[TheSpartan]

I did no such thing. The very act of putting the statement in quotes is an acknowledgment that the statement is attributed to someone else. My statement was that it sounded an awful lot like Reagan, which it still does..."ustable, racist old man on the edge of dementia"...yup, spot on.

[seekeronos]

Reagan != McCain.

Reagan *during his presidency* was quite stable, and if he was racist, I sure missed the memo on that one.

Dementia? He was afflicted with Alzheimer's, but to say that this affected the general thrust of his career as a man who believed in and governed from solid conservative principles, according to the Constitution, and who lead the varios GOP factions together without going overboard in compromise to the Rockefeller (R)'s much less the Democrats.

And if the man's deeds do not speak loudly enough in his defense, then surely his legacy will.

If you cannot see that, it is because you refuse to see it, or you just might be blind in one eye while unable to see clearly from the other.

[TheSpartan]

As was said to me on this site the other day, action speak louder than words and Reagan's action could certainly lead one to believe he was a racist. In particular his support of the DeKlerk gov't in South Africa and his speech in Philadelphia, MS invoking states rights.

[seekeronos]

States' Rights. Federalism... whoa, what an idea!

These *are* the United States we are living in.

As for the DeKlerk government, it was a sovereign government in its time, and also happened to be a bulwark against the spread of Soviet sponsored communism in Africa.

So one lesser evil was momentarily overlooked to counter a greater evil.

[Fred Beloit]

States rights = racism?

"...his speech in Philadelphia, MS invoking states rights."

"Amendment X
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

[Yoda]

"why shouldn't we have a President who will "hate" a nation with Most Favored trading status "as long as he lives"?"

Yea right. It was McCain and Kerry who whitewashed the whole MIA thing so that trade status could occur. I'm sure he did that cuz he hates them.

[Fred Beloit]

"Here is what Reagan actually said:

'What we have to do is bring back the recognition that the people of this country can solve its problems. I still believe the answer to any problem lies with the people. I believe in state's rights and I believe in people doing as much as they can for themselves at the community level and at the private level. I believe we have distorted the balance of our government today by giving powers that were never intended to be given in the Constitution to that federal establishment.'" Quoted by NRO
http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/comment-hayward121902.asp

Some have considered this as racism. Others as respect for the constitution or common sense.

[WAHOO WILLIE SEZ:]

Sparty my leftist pal I apologize. I did not mean to cause all these nice peoples to jump on your back. I was just sniping at your little boobndabasement bumper sticker statement. Sorry.

[TheSpartan]

I'm not sure I would consider communism the lesser evil than apartheid...both evil...

He also called Mandela and his group terrorists.

[Capitalist Infidel]

"you can't have a President defend that remark. Bad judgment. He has to keep his "justifiable" anger to himself. It goes with the job."

First off I reject the notion that the word "gook" is racist in any manner. Just because you and the liberals say it is doesn't make it so. It's a word to describe those that held him captive and tortured him for 5 years. I'm not about to vote for the RINO but his 5 years in that hellhole give him the credibility to say it if he wants.

[TheSpartan]

Well the folks it's aimed at say it's racist so I'll take their word for it over yours.

[WAHOO WILLIE SEZ:]

"communism the lesser evil than apartheid."

See there Sparty, we agree again.

[Techie]

Wow, I've got a lot of things to come up with that are racist to call me.

[seekeronos]

I see it this way:

Nelson Mandela was the front man for the African National Congress (currently the political faction in power in the Republic of South Africa) and at various points in time, the ANC received funds, material, and moral support from the Soviet Union through various other proxies. Mandela himself was photographed performing communist/marxist salutes and being in the vicinity of communist/marxist symbols.

Of course, it is probably likely that in playing one hand against another, the ANC leadership saw the (seemingly free) offer of Soviet and Red Chinese help-by-proxy as much as the DeKlerk government was willing to work with the Thatcher government of the UK and America under Reagan.

But see for yourself what sort of man Nelson Mandela is:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s95o-kaLAJM (Mandela leads a song in Xhosa language that calls for the holocaust of the minority white population while talking nice platitudes in English)

http://www.rhodesia.nl/goodcom.html (Article about how to be a good communist written by the Mandela himself)

And if these sources aren't mainstream enough for you, then there is this item from the NY Times:

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C0CE0DB1631F93BA15754C0A966958260

[WAHOO WILLIE SEZ:]

Seek the only difference between a "terrorist" (as usually misused) and a freedom fighter is perspective. Mandela was willing to deal with the devil to meet his ultimate goal and whitey was rightfully afraid of that vision. Now of curiousity I did a single page perusal of the SA today and it's an interesting read. http://richardknight.homestead.com/satoday.html