A Drudge Intrigue: Is Hillary Dropping Out?

Just as I finished writing about how Hillary is not done, Drudge shines the flashing light with some interesting verbiage. Note that it uses the plural "campaigns." It also cites Carville. One cannot be re-born until you die. What better way to do it than to plant the story of your demise, eventually pinning it on the underhanded dealings of a presumably noble competitor's campaign? Nothing like sucking the wind out of your competitions headline grabbing success with a staged funeral that doesn't take place. I don't buy it at all.

TALK OF HILLARY EXIT ENGULFS CAMPAIGNS
Mon Jan 07 2008 09:46:28 ET

Facing a double-digit defeat in New Hampshire, a sudden collapse in national polls and an expected fund-raising drought, Senator Hillary Clinton is preparing for a tough decision: Does she get out of the race? And when?!

"She can't take multiple double-digit losses in New Hampshire, South Carolina and Nevada," laments one top campaign insider. "If she gets too badly embarrassed, it will really harm her. She doesn't want the Clinton brand to be damaged with back-to-back-to-back defeats."

MORE

Key players in Clinton's inner circle are said to be split. James Carville is urging her to fight it out through at least February and Super Tuesday, where she has a shot at thwarting Barack Obama in a big state. But others close to the former first lady now see no possible road to victory, sources claim.

Comments

[Totally Heterosexual Conservative]

Edit: in short your "lack of credibility" as described above, tends to stem from the simple fact that you're ill-informed as to the subject matter about which you purport to opine. What's interesting is that you don't appear to feel the slightest bit silly about it.

[seekeronos]

What!?

The Democratic knives are coming out?

Whoodathunkit! Treachery and Jackanapery in the same thread.

Good sir, I have you know that my feathers are a-ruffled by these shocking allegations of Democratic skullduggery!

Ruffled, I tell you! Now off I fly to my haberdasher to repair the damage that has been done to my plumage!

[Fred Beloit]

legaleagle, when did you come out of the closet? We've missed you, sort of. Only a lawyer could defend another lawyer with such bulldog-like ferocity, and likewise defend those hefty fees of course. But hey, why shouldn't you guys make as much as a hockey or basketball player? It is just that Edwards is such a bold hypocrite. Isn't there something in his manse that is made by some corporation somewhere. And if so, isn't he dealing with the devil? He exempts no corporation from his hit list as far as I know. Or does he only refuse to deal with health insurers?

[Wahoo Willie Sez:]

From Wiki again: "In law, a class action or a representative action is a procedural device used in litigation to determine the rights of and remedies, if any, for large numbers of people whose cases involve common questions of law and/or fact." Using this definition, the suit against the Red Cross (of all people. Talk about helping the poor) is a classic example of "determine the rights of and remedies, if any, for large numbers of people " , ie people who got AIDS from tainted blood and others who might. As I have been involved in two class actions (one actually turned out to be quite lucrative) I might be slightly familiar with how they work. KNowing a few ambulance chasers may also help one form an opinion. I wont look up others for you.

I also stated very clearly MY opinion and I'm not changing my opinion. And yes, one can clearly achieve wealth and advocate for the poor. Bill Gates comes to mind immediately. Michael Jordan, whom I know, is another fair example. Difference? They are't telling anyone that they should be doing more while doing less.

Oh my, just heard Hillary's crying jag! Forget the trader Obama. I must vote for Hil now cause she cares soooo much for Amerika.

[Wahoo Willie Sez:]

"Only a lawyer could defend another lawyer." If that's a lawyer (law student possibly, but I suspect the child of a lawyer) we are sunk. Absolutely no chance to out shister a shister. I do resent the implication, if coming from a lawyer, of lack of credibility. Rest assured a real lawyer would have to ask a para-legal to spell credible.

[Fred Beloit]

Methinks the credibility charge was leveled by some preteener.

[Totally Heterosexual Conservative]

Lord, the Red Cross cases weren't "class actions." Only 2 opinions of the 3 are actually published. They are Doe. v. Am. Nat'l Red Cross; and Watson v. Lowsountry Red Cross - both from the 4th Circuit. Go ahead, look them up. Evidently, your "involvement" in class actions didn't rise to the level of actually litigating one. Still waiting for any evidence that Edwards employed 60% fee arrangements (which would be illegal and unethical by the way).

What's that? Nothing?

[gatorboy]

Wahoo Willie - sorry my ignoring the protocol of proximity was such a buzzkill. Too bad the string died. Ooooh...it didn't. Some of us, however, can't spend hours on end flogging, and we are interrupted by little things like work. When I see reich-wing propoganda masquerading as intelligent discourse I feel that it is my duty to address it, no matter how much time has lapsed. I didn't realize you are as sensitive as you are blinded. And "goatboy?" How will I ever sleep tonight.

[Chet Hinkle]

The 18-29 age group elected a Popular Wrestler as their Governor a few years back. See how that turned out, now they are trying to get a Pop Star elected as our President.How soon they forget or have no idea of what I am talking about. This is no time for young folks experiments. Tumblebug

[Philip McDaniel]

Totally Heterosexual Conservative: "Still waiting for any evidence that Edwards employed 60% fee arrangements (which would be illegal and unethical by the way)."

I don't know about Edwards and his arrangements but I do know of a case here in Florida [not mentioning names] where a settlement of $15,000 netted the lawyer $9,900 along with a $1,500 finders fee to another lawyer. (!) And since it involved a person dying of cancer who had also lost her job because she reported child abuse it was pretty shameful to say the least...Or shall we say 'pretty typical of lawyers now days?'

[Totally Heterosexual Conservative]

All of the above is illegal and unethical. Those lawyers should be disbarred and in jail. Although, hardly typical, stuff like that does happen. However, bad behavior exists in all professions. And of course, because a lawyer in FL behaved in such a manner, does not mean that John Edwards ever did the same. In fact, if he had, he would have been disbarred and probably thrown in jail for a period of time. I am unaware of that ever happening.

[Wahoo Willie Sez:]

THC is correct, by thier own rules a lawyer may take up to 50% of a settlement and of course they ALL do this. None would bill extra crap like dinner for para's working late, etc to pad thier take. I have to take the hit for saying specifically that Johnny Reid would do such a thing without his billing records here.

Oh and gatorboy....not everyone has to work. You're correct though. It's just silly to beat a dead horse forever.

[rwilymz]

"someone who has acheived wealth can not be an advocate for the poor."

It makes it more difficult to be taken seriously, particularly when that "advocate" fusses and preens in very public ways.

"The implication being that he did something "wrong.""

There's wrong and then there's wrong.

People the nation over consider Roger Clemens to have been wrong for taking steroids [allegedly] and then lying about it [allegedly] as "B-12 and" whatever shots. There is nothing illegal about either, particularly when he is accused of taking steroids, though the popular consensus of "wrong" is thoroughly undeniable.

Whether you care to admit it or not, there is a group of people in this country who considers the [legal] actions of loyyers who advertise, effectively trolling the public airwaves for personal injury clients, to be "wrong" in doing so. And whether you care to ackowledge it or not, this group is fairly large, coming close to a majority in some areas. This group considers it abusive, manipulative and a miserly pimping of the marginals from our society into disproportionate self-betterment for the loyyer ... and little else.

Who's to say that's unaccurate?

Now, for someone who is putatively from a current group who has taken to [claiming to be] finding their personal philosophies roundly ignored by the majority, for you to do the same would seem to be grand hypocrisy.

And for your information, a guy who is in practice as a personal injury loyyer often makes those cases into class actions when/where he can. Increases the fee basis. But I'm certain you already knew that. One can practice class actions in many areas of law.

"Still waiting for any evidence that Edwards employed 60% fee arrangements (which would be illegal and unethical by the way)"

That depends, as you surely know, on the agreements made prior to accepting the case, almost always signed in writing by all parties, and any billables padding.

...which is also strictly unethical, but a common loyyerly gambit particularly among a certain subset of large-monetary-return case-style loyyers. ...such as, um ... not to name names or anything ... personal injuries types.

Now if your loyyer costs $500/hr and he worked 2,000 hours, and his staff worked another 48,000 hours [at the reduced cost of $250/hr], then how are you going to prove otherwise?

Short answer: you aren't. And you can do the math as well as I can to figure out how large a settlement needs to be for it to amount to 60% of the award. There have been cases where the legal work ate up more than 60% of the award.

All of this is what makes the following joke funny: A lawyer died and met St Peter at the Heavenly Gates. Upon arriving he pleaded with the saint, "...but I'm too young to die! I'm only 41!!." St Peter replied, "But your billable hours shows that you're 87..."

Yuck it up; that's hillarious.

So are your protestations. ...though probably not by design.

[William]

John Edwards is in pretty good shape, if all his self righteous ememies can talk about are a $400
haircut. You might as well get one thing clear though, it was just one time, and that's what that
ahole "barber" billed him. He came to the hotel, and then billed him for time he may have lost with other customers. Edwards had no idea that he was going to do that. Time is at a premium on the campaign trail, so get real. And while were at it, all you God forsaken Hillary haters out there, need to realize why you feel that way. At least her life has been dedicated to helping people, and not just insuring that the "have mores" have more. If one dislikes Bush, at least there is justification. He has turned the World on it's end many times over, and we are all suffering for it. Having typed in the above, I am still voting for Edwards, because I think he has the fight in him, to take on the mighty, and self anointed special interests.

[Totally Heterosexual Conservative]

I just think it's cute that you guys purport to lecture about the processes involved with class actions without citing one class action rule in any jurisdiction, or accurately describing how the device tends works, or how firms go about signing up clients; how the claim is administered; how the fees are distrubuted after a court-approved settlement arrangement; notice requirements; etc. Hint: Fed. R. Civ. P. 23.

It's also cute that you purport to understand the legal and ethical rules with respect to contingent fees - most personal injury lawyers work on such a basis. When called on being factuall innacurate - repeatedly - never have I seen so much preening and puffery from individuals who can't provide answers to very simple questions in response to your very own assertions:

1. How was John Edwards involved with class actions when he wasn't a "class action lawyer"? A class action is a very specific procedural device; he was either involved with class actions or he was not.

2. How do you know he ever charged fees that were improper? Ever. One time. But it would be irreponsible not to speculate right? You have lots of "almost always" and "such behavior is typical among lawyers" but strangely no evidence that such is true, or that Edwards engaged in such conduct. But he must have!!! Rush told me!!!

:)

Oh, but understanding the topic about which one opines, and actually having some experience with it is ELITIST!!!!! It's all very cute, is all. I'll be sure to take all I've learned from your wikipedia citations to the next gig!

Be well, revellers of Rhenquist, o wards of Warren, o olivers of wendel holmes-es!

[rwilymz]

"You might as well get one thing clear though, it was just one time"

And we know that ... because you say so?

That certainly helps!!

"all you God forsaken Hillary haters out there, need to realize why you feel that way"

Because her philosophies are trivial, hackneyed and overwrought with smarm?

Just a guess...

"At least her life has been dedicated to helping people"

Aye, and herself most of all.

She is a 'people'

"not just insuring that the "have mores" have more"

Can you possibly whine just a little more loudly and in more derivative dogmatism?

Please? I'm asking nicely, here.

"If one dislikes Bush, at least there is justification."

There is justification for disliking anyone, even your heros.

"He has turned the World on it's end many times over, and we are all suffering for it."

Frankly, the world could use it, and a bit more. But I'm not suffering. I, for one, have both an education and a job, but I can't speak for you. You may be in that class which needs to have special assistance because the only thing you have shown any particular talent in is whining.

------------------

"I just think it's cute that you guys purport to lecture about the processes involved with class actions without citing one class action rule in any jurisdiction"

"Everyone under the sun" v RJReynolds, Madison Co IL.

"...or accurately describing how the device tends works"

Poorly. But that's my opinion. ...shared by a gre-e-e-eat many.

"or how firms go about signing up clients"

Advertisements on radio, television, periodicals and local newspapers. Not to mention direct mailings to known customers/clients of the target firm. I myself have been solicited twice in the past six months about joining class actions against my telephone company over charging me about $0.16/month too much over a period of about 8 months, and another against my life insurance company. All I'd need to do is fill out about 75 pages worth of forms with more personal information and financial records than I care to look up [let alone share] and I could be the proud owner of a check for $2.48.

Woohoo!! Lucky day!!

"how the claim is administered"

As per rules of procedure in the jurisdiction involved.

Come on, "counsellor"!

"how the fees are distrubuted after a court-approved settlement arrangement"

In the case of the universe v Reynolds, they weren't; Reynolds appealed and the had to put up a surety bond with the county of approximately $6b-b-b-billion, out of which Madison Co garnered approximately $11M in interest annually over just over two years as interest.

They won on appeal, Madison Co lost their gravy train, and the class of smokers lost their checks for $2.48.

"It's also cute that you purport to understand the legal and ethical rules with respect to contingent fees"

Know what's even cuter? That you think because you know details and jargon that no one else knows anything.

I assure you that is not the case.

"A class action is a very specific procedural device; he was either involved with class actions or he was not."

Here's the thing, slickshit: he was/is a personal injuries loyyer, and they have a tendency to extend their cases to class actions when possible. You and I both know that, so your continued flailings may act to convince yourself that you are holding your own, but you aren't. A personal injuries loyyer can extend a case to a class ation without getting hisself pegged as a "class action loyyer".

But go ahead: wrap yourself around the convenient axle of temporary impertinence until you have successfully tangentialized the discussion that you can claim a victory of sorts if only because you've confused non-loyyers with irrelevancies.

Edwards is ATLA and ATLA is, to a great many, the secular world's version of the devil.

"How do you know he ever charged fees that were improper?"

I don't. Further, I don't care. I really doubt anyone does.

It's just -- as I told you and as you know quite well -- many many people dislike loyyers as a general rule, with [as your wimpery cohort suggested above] "with justification", and pretty much no matter what a loyyer does it's wrong, even if it's legal.

So your continued parsings and equivocations [seriously, you aren't going to outparse me, boy] are frankly wasted.

"but understanding the topic about which one opines, and actually having some experience with it is ELITIST"

One does what one can. Give it a whirl sometime.

[rwilymz]

Pardon: it was Phillip-Morris who was class-actioned in my hometown for $10B, not RJReynolds. I made what you should consider a justifiable mistake in confusing the corporate rape-masters.

Hey, they're all guilty anyway, right? Just a matter of time before they're all taken down in a spate of neo-luddite reactionism. Viva l'oyyers!!!

[Aakash]

Well, when you are viewed as the "front-runner," and you are upset by another candidate in an early contest, you have to recover quickly... If not, you lose major momentum and support, and that makes it more likely that you will have to drop out.

This is what almost happened to Bob Dole, in 1996, on the Republican side. [The GOP Establishment weighed in very heavily, following Iowa and New Hampshire, to push him into the nomination.]

Howard Dean was sunk, in a similar way, after he stumbled in the early contests, during the last Democrat presidential nomination race.

Hopefully, this will happen to Hillary as well.