Thompson Co-Chair: Beware Those Non-Christian, Racist Mormons

You'd think Fred would know better than to appoint a co-chair who's been a frequent guest on Politically Incorrect with Bill Maher.

MOSTELLER: Yes. I would say that the Southern Baptist Convention considers Mormonism not a part of the Christian faith – they’ve stated that on their Website – and most Evangelicals would not consider it part of the Christian faith.

CYNDI MOSTELLER: As a person who’s been to seminary and studied somewhat the Mormon doctrine, I think that the more people scrutinize, look at and become aware of that doctrine, they will have more questions rather than less. I think particularly the Church’s history, and almost theology, on the issue of race – particularly the black race – will be a very difficult issue to defend and to move forward with; especially when we look at the theology of the Church and what the Church founders and prophets and presidents have said throughout the history of the Church until 1978 when they first allowed membership to anyone in the black race. […] There are some issues there and I don’t quite see how you resolve them and seek out and obtain anywhere near the same level of African American support that President Bush obtained both in 2000 and 2004.

There's more, also see here. Could we please get these detailed discussions of anyone's religion out of the national discussion on who our next president might be? There is no religious test. And some of these freaking evangelicals better get it, or there will be an independent bid. I am sickened by the intolerance I am seeing by some aligned with that faction.

Comments

[IslamoLlama]

http://www.redstate.com/stories/elections/2008/the_makings_of_a_real_conservative

Red State and Limbaugh say Thompson is the only real conservative in the race. Wth, man? Why you gotta be hating on the only real conservative in the race? What are you? Some kinda nancy, whiny, "please don't insult my ethnic background" liberal?

I thought this was a conservative web blog with balls. Oh well.

[Sara]

I'm sick to death of non-Mormons trying to espouse on Mormon doctrine they know nothing about and always get wrong. The bigotry, both open and subtle, is disgusting to watch.

I saw this today on NRO:

"You know what would really be funny? If Romney declares on Thursday that he has been saved and shows a YouTube clip of his baptism, and a hearty endorsement by Dr. Dobson."

Romney, as all children born into the LDS faith, was baptized in the name of Jesus Christ at the age of 8 and then later received the laying on of hands for the "gift of the holy spirit." With converts, it happens all in one ceremony after a long period of interviews, class study, and a public repentance of sins.

Yet, I see over and over how Mormons aren't Christian, do not believe in the same God, or in Jesus as Savior, or in the Bible. It is ignorance, pure and simple.

But, all of that aside, all you really need to know is that Mormons are good people who attempt to live clean, healthy and Godly lives. They care about each other, their children, their friends and their neighbors. They are usually well-educated and make successful employees and employers. They are patriotic and believe in fair justice. We could do a whole lot worse than elect a Mormon to the White House. In fact, we have done alot worse with the likes of Bill Clinton or the Bible-toting Jimmah.

I'm sick to death of non-Mormons trying to espouse on Mormon doctrine they know nothing about and always get wrong. The bigotry, both open and subtle, is disgusting to watch.

I saw this today on NRO:

"You know what would really be funny? If Romney declares on Thursday that he has been saved and shows a YouTube clip of his baptism, and a hearty endorsement by Dr. Dobson."

Romney, as all children born into the LDS faith, was baptized in the name of Jesus Christ at the age of 8 and then later received the laying on of hands for the "gift of the holy spirit." With converts, it happens all in one ceremony after a long period of interviews, class study, and a public repentance of sins.

Yet, I see over and over how Mormons aren't Christian, do not believe in the same God, or in Jesus as Savior, or in the Bible. It is ignorance, pure and simple.

But, all of that aside, all you really need to know is that Mormons are good people who attempt to live clean, healthy and Godly lives. They care about each other, their children, their friends and their neighbors. They are usually well-educated and make successful employees and employers. They are patriotic and believe in fair justice. We could do a whole lot worse than elect a Mormon to the White House. In fact, we have done alot worse with the likes of Bill Clinton or the Bible-toting Jimmah.

To see Romney and his Mormon brethren in action, check out this story:

http://confessionsofapoliticaljunkie.blogspot.com/2007/11/how-often-do-candidates-do-stuff-like.html

[Sara]

Sorry, I don't know why those paragraphs repeated. I hope you can read through the mess.

[BobInStamford]

Is that sorry old geezer still running?? Shouldn't he be eating the early bird special at Red Lobster and enjoying his golden years?

[docweasel]

I disagree about disregarding someone's religion, when said religion embraces tenets and practices that are sexist, racist, intolerant of other religions to the extreme and cultist in their harassment of members who try to leave.

The rhetoric of the Mormon church against anyone who is not a Mormon is as repulsive and bigoted as that of some Muslims against Jews. There are also white supremecist teachings in the Book of Mormon, which they profess to take as the literal word of God and claim that they must live by that book absolutely. The attitudes expressed in that book and other writings of the LDS reflect an 18th century attitude towards the rights of women.

I would never support a Mormon for public office, period. If the Republicans DO somehow nominate Romney, it will be a disaster for the party. It won't even take 3rd party challenger, who is quite likely to emerge, to defeat Romney- even most Republicans won't vote for him, let alone independents.

I feel so strongly about this I would actively work against Romney, should he be the nominee, even to the point of supporting the Democrat.

[Sara]

An 18th century attitude about women? What the hell are you talking about. Women had the right to vote in Utah before anywhere else. The Mormon church teaches that husband and wife are equal, with different responsibilities, but equal in voice. And what rhetoric against anyone not a Mormon? I associated with the local Ward teaching genealogy and no one preached any rhetoric against me, in fact, just the opposite. The Elders of the church were there to take up the slack when my husband was gone on long Navy deployments, they welcomed my son and stood in as surrogates for his Dad for father/son outings and to be fans at his Pop Warner and H.S. football games. When my Mother became ill, her Mormon neighbor arranged for members to come and give me some much needed caretaking downtime. No one ever tried to convert me or push any doctrine down my throat.

It is small-minded ignorance like you espouse that is so disgusting. Oh, and as far as intolerant of other religions, that is just plain hogwash. One of their Articles of Faith is:

"We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may."

Whoever filled your head with so much garbage and misinformation is who you should be railing against. You are one scary dude.

[Dan Riehl]

"to the point of supporting the Democrat"

Good luck getting that Hillary sticker on your bumper, Doc. Ewwwwwwww

[docweasel]

# The Jews were wicked, performed abominations, and killed prophets. 1:19

# It's better to kill one person than have a whole nation die unbelievers. 4:13

# The Native Americans are the decedents of those "who dwindled in unbelief." As a punishment for their disbelief, their skin was darkened and they became "a filthy people, full of idleness and all manner of abominations." 12:22-23

# Nephi sees the "great and abominable church" and its founder, the devil. 13:6

# The Nephites were "white and exceedingly fair." 13:15

# Nephi sees the "great and abominable church" who has taken away the plain and most precious parts of the gospel. 13:26

# The "great and abominable church" has taken away the plain and most precious things from the book. 13:28

# The plain and most precious things in the book have been taken away. 13:29

# The plain and most precious parts of the gospel have been removed by that abominable church. 13:32

# The "great and abominable church" was "founded by the devil" to lead souls to hell. 14:3

# The "great and abominable church, ... the mother of abominations, whose founder is the devil." 14:9

# There are only two churches: the church of the Lamb of God, and the church of the devil.You either belong to the good chuch or the bad church (the mother of abominations, the whore of all the earth). 14:10

# "The whore of all the earth sat upon many waters." 14:11

# The church of the Lamb of God had few members "because of the wickedness and abominations of the whore who sat upon many waters." 14:12

# The "great mother of abominations" recruits people from all over the earth to fight against the Lamb of God. 14:13

http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/BOM/int/long.html

[Sara]

Weasel: perhaps you would like some quotes from the Book of Revelations. The Book of Mormon is supposed to be another testament to the reality and divinity of Christ and as another testament, an affirmation of the Bible. Anyone can take Biblical quotes out of context and try to make a case. Doesn't make it so.

[Sara]

The Church has grown significantly since its founding in 1830. Today, it has more than 13 million members worldwide and is currently growing at an average rate of about one million new members every three years.

Membership milestones:

* 1 million in 1947
* 2 million in 1963
* 3 million in 1971
* 4 million in 1978
* 5 million in 1982
* 6 million in 1986
* 7 million in 1989
* 8 million in 1991
* 9 million in 1994
* 10 million in 1997
* 11 million in 2000

That should keep you busy hating for a very long time. Pathetic!

[BobInStamford]

The mouthbreathers are eating their own! Man, those scientology kooks is wacky!

[seekeronos]

I cannot support Mitt based upon his past - not so much so because of his links to a cult, but rather his greasy flip-flopping and willingness - like Hillary - to stop at nothing - step on any - grind anyone who gets in his way into hamburg.

All with a minty-fresh gleaming smile and perfectly Brylcreemed hair.

Yet, perhaps a part of his years under Brigham Young's yoke may have helped shape that veneer - for he does lie very well.

Mormonism - at its essence - is an antichrist doctrine. And like any antichrist doctrine, it is a pack of lies covered with a gossamer-thin veneer of truth and uprightness that makes it look like a convincing counterfeit of *the Truth*.

# Sara said:
"--- No one ever tried to convert me or push any doctrine down my throat. ---"

Sara, I think that you are being quite skillfully deceived by your Mormon "friends".

You should read this:

http://www.mrm.org/topics/evangelism-issues/ten-lies-i-told-mormon-missionary

[edward cropper]

It is laughable when you see some evangelicals blasting Romney and the Mormons for racism, suppressing women,and heresy.
It was said many years ago that the most segregated place in the world was Baptist churches on a Sunday morning. Evangelicals believe women should be silent in the churches and subservient to men. Evangelical Dispensationalist have given up on the world and are just sitting back waiting for the anti-Christ to take over, the Lord to come back for His own, the nation of Israel to be made God's favorite again and the rest of the world to go to hell. Which many Reformed teachers think is heresy.
So where does this leave the intolerants in the Evangelical circle who are beating Romney and the Mormons up every time they open their mouths?
Many of them are the same southern democrat evangelicals who supported Clinton and continue to defend that dirt bag even to this day.

[Sara]

Oh please, I've spent half a very long lifetime studying man's need to believe, religions, primitive and organized, the Bible, other religious texts that form the basis of the world's great religions, myths, fables, cults, Judaism and the relation of God to the Jews. One thing I learned is that man has a great need, a basic need, to believe. Even those who profess to believe in nothing, believe in that nothingness.

And you see, I form my opinions about people based on their character and actions, not on what they believe in their religious life. When I see a group who are good, solid, loving people, who give to those in need, who work hard, try very hard to live a good life and bring up their children well, then those are people I hope to count as friends.

Maybe you prefer some of the more wacky evangelical sects that believe singing and dancing are of the devil, even though God says make a joyful noise unto the Lord? Or that group that believes you need to handle poisonous snakes in order to be saved? Or perhaps Fred Phelps Southern Baptist church who desecrate our brave military's funerals? Or how 'bout those televangelists, just pay $XX and you'll be saved? Or maybe my Scots-Irish Presbyterian Grandmother had it right - you could read the Sunday paper because it was printed on Saturday night, you could not read the Monday paper, because it was printed on Sunday. I'll take a houseful of Mormons anytime.

[docweasel]

Sara, the difference is Mormons are exhorted to take their testament literally. Yes, the Bible says racist, sexist and abhorrent things. Enlightened religions, like the Roman Catholics, accept the reality that the Bible, although inspired by God, has been mistranslated, changed by political forces and political reasons over the millenia, sections have been discarded and added by fiat, politics or who is in power at the time, etc. Its also a product of different times, mores, social traditions, etc.

They don't take it literally, and so blame for offensive portions of the Bible cannot be laid at their door. Its seen as an allegorical guide and rough history, but far from a literal document or to be "lived" literally. Mormons, on the other hand, aver that the Book of Mormon is to be taken literally and "literally" lived, day to day. And that book contains racist, sexist and intolerant commands to its readers that would make a Klansman blush.

By the way, yes, Utah did give women the right to vote- but mostly because they felt their clout in national elections was not commiserate with the power they wished to wield- Mormon men were to instruct their women on how to vote, and the women were expected to obey (as they are in all matters, because a Man is specially connected to God's Will and he will pass it down to the family, without question, including whom the daughters shall marry, etc.)

I've got personal experience with Mormonism, personal experience with their hounding, harassing and stalking someone who wished to leave the church, and the internet is full of "survivor" sites of ex-Mormons with similar horror stories.

This is cult behaviour, plain and simple. And yes, I believe so strongly in the fact that Mormonism is a pernicious influence that I would be an activist for ANY nominee against him, should he be the candidate of the Republicans, including Hillary. I feel that he would be the WORST president we could elect, bar none of the other candidates. And, I feel it so strongly I'd work against him, contribute to the opposition and continue to spread the word about the cult to which he belongs.

I am pretty certain it won't come to that, however. His slimy glibness, honed by years of chicanery, are fairly transparent to most people. I happen to agree with Robert Redford that he came by them honestly, and its a trait he shares with his fellows.

[Sara]

weasel, phooey. The Mormons believe the Bible, as long as it is translated correctly. Do you think the thousands and thousands of books in the Dessert bookstore on Biblical issues and teachings are not discussing every facet, parable, historical point vs custom and traditon, etc. Mormons are some of the best educated people I know, do you think they are too dumb to understand nuance? They embrace science, technology and archaeological study. Engraved over the entrance to the Salt Lake Temple are the words "the glory of God is Intelligence" or in other words, light and truth. Give me a break.

If you are going to hold the Catholics up, then I really am flabbergasted. I wouldn't knock a Catholic's belief even though I don't understand the idol worship or the mysticism, or the whole idea of needing intermediaries to talk to God or being married to Christ. And the fact that Catholicism has a pretty brutal past. And things must be very different since my childhood when a childhood friend punched me in the face for saying that Jesus was a Jew and so were the Disciples. I don't recall any open-mindedness back then.

[Sara]

By the way, anyone interested in actually listening to Romney's speech on religion, it will be on

http://www.ustream.tv/mittromney

10:30 EST Thursday morning.

[seekeronos]

"--- The Mormons believe the Bible, as long as it is translated correctly. ---"

Translated, of course, by the LDS church and vetted by the Apostle. Much like the Roman Catholic Church and certain prelates and high cardinals along with the Pope vet the Missals and (heavily edited) version of the Bible used in Catholic masses.

I'll avoid the very tempting bait to go after specific cults and sub-sects of Christianity here, and come down to the single most important thing:

*Jesus Christ is the object of our (Christian) faith. Plus nothing, minus nothing.*

The Bible - all 66 books of it - 39 books from the Jewish Tanakh and 27 from the New Testament - is written by the hands of men who were inspired by the Holy Spirit (the 3rd Person of the Trinity) and EVERYTHING in it is preserved by the divine agency of Almighty God for our use - preserved to us in English in the Authorized Version (King James Version) Bible.

The Bible alone is God's will for our lives, and yes - it takes a certain amount of study of the Bible, a knowledge and a living membership into Covenant of Redemption by which we (Christians) are sealed by the Holy Spirit to know it. Without being saved - let me reiterate - without being saved and born again into Christ, you CANNOT understand the Bible beyond the basic parts that expose y/our sins.

That is why the Bible generally makes no sense to non-believers, especially those itchy violent parts which seem to be conveniently ignored: God hasn't changed - the grace which is given unto us may cause us to forgo stoning rape victims or burning witches or slaying homosexuals BECAUSE WE ARE ALL GUILTY OF SIN. God's law hasn't changed - it is there to REVEAL our sin. Does God still detest and loathe sexual immorality? Does He still desire HIs people to live holy and pure lives, and not commit spiritual adultery by going after the vain idolatry there is in the world?

Yes, He still is jealous for our worship and our love. Yes, He is STILL the same God as He was in Genesis 1:1 as He was when He walked this earth as Jesus Christ, as He will be when He judges the living and the dead at the end of time.

So in short - Christianity has nothing to do with magicked undergarments, nor baptisms for the dead, nor monstrances, nor eating wafers mysteriously turned into the literal body of Christ, nor reading the Monday paper on Sunday night... nor does it have anything to do with handling snakes (that's just plain stupid and dangerous, not to mention violating God's word - "Thou shalt not put the Lord thy God to the test"... nor lording one's own worthless "righteousness" over another.

Don't believe my words, nor the traditions or dictates of "the elders"... check it out with the SOURCE, the Word of God:

"These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so." (Acts 17:11, KJV)

[docweasel]

seekaronos:
I personally find ANY religious fanatic to be dangerous and intolerant of others. Its just that Mormons are more dedicated to 'fooling' the public. This encapsulates Romney's act in a nutshell.

Fortunately, except for the NorthEast, which is deluded anyway, no one is buying what Romney is shilling. I look for him to be gone before Super Tuesday, and I'll drink a toast to his demise as a candidate.

[Capitalist Infidel]

"It was said many years ago that the most segregated place in the world was Baptist churches on a Sunday morning"

Said by whom? Or did you just pull that out of your arse? An assinine statement like that reminds of "reporters" who say "some people say...." which really means "it's what I think..."

[Fred Beloit]

"The feverish rains of passion doth dim the lanterns of reason." Who said that, Shakespeare? No, I did.

[edward cropper]

If you didn't have your head up your arse and knew anything about anything you would have known this little well known fact. It was southern "evangelical Christians" who would not support Billy Graham's intergrated crusades just to mention one situation.
Did you hear that World War II is over?

[seekeronos]

"--- It was southern "evangelical Christians" who would not support Billy Graham's intergrated crusades just to mention one situation ---"

Not sure who that was addressed to, but I'll nip at it.

The Bible doesn't teach racial segregation. Jesus died for all men and women, to pay the price for our sins. That racism was less a factor of their Christianity than it was a factor of a faulty cultural paradigm, one that those preachers who lead their flocks back then may have failed to call out as sin.

And let us stop picking on Southerners. There are plenty of Yankees from that time who were as viciously racist as any Southern racist ever was. Racism is a disease - moreover, a *SIN*, that has no place in the heart of a true Bible-believing Christian.