Sorry Ace, But Huckabee Did Not Lie

Update: In email convo with Ace, he believes his headline holds - that Huckabee did in fact lie. He would have been informed about Mormons due to attending the conference. That's true, so I concede the point. Actually, reading the intolerant garbage that was apparently taught at the conference, the lying issue for me became a minor point in writing the post. And I also think, as a non-Mormon, Huckabee doesn't know anything about Mormons at all. What he should have done is keep his mouth shut. Now let us pray the Dems don't start talking about religion at their debate today. Hopefully, we're done talking about religion for awhile. Lastly, and personally, as a non-Mormon, I don't find what the Baptists were up to below very Christian at all.

Ace thinks he may have caught Mike Huckabee in a "Bald-faced lie" but some research proves that isn't the case. That isn't necessarily good news and other research around the conference mentioned below is even a bit more troubling.

In 1998, the Southern Baptist Convention provocatively scheduled their annual meeting in Salt Lake City. The potential confrontation attracted a record number of mainstream media hoping for a dust-up (that never came). In preparation, the SBC distributed a 50 minute video entitled “The Mormon Puzzle” to 40,000 SBC congregations as well as publishing over 12,000 copies of a book entitled “Mormonism Unmasked." The keynote speaker? Mike Huckabee.

You see, the conference Huckabee spoke at wasn't just a conference, as per the New York Times, the Baptists went to Salt Lake to keep the Mormons from entering hell.

A Baptist battalion of 3,000 front-door missionaries will trawl the streets, trying to convert Mormons to their brand of Christianity -- in the stronghold of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. The campaign is called Crossover Salt Lake City.

To support that effort the materials used to train Baptists made some things very clear - also see here. Here are a few less than savory bits. Huckabee wasn't lying. He was merely asking a question to confirm what he presumably was taught. Heavens, why I wouldn't be surprised if some of this might even apply to Jews. Ya think?

"Don't be puzzled by Mormons," reads the glossy poster. "Be prepared." Against a background of hundreds of jigsaw puzzle pieces, the poster announces a program entitled "The Mormon Puzzle: Understanding and Witnessing to Latter-day Saints.

"The Jesus of Mormonism is a brother to Lucifer," says John L. Smith, repeating a currently fashionable anti-Mormon mantra.

"Mormon people are lost people," says a videotaped "soulwinner," comparing them in their deception to similar categories of the lost, such as "drug addicts," "drunkards," and other sinners.

In speaking with a Latter-day Saint, "Be careful not to call his or her testimony Christian."33 After all, Mormons belong to a "cult."34 And, although they are smitten with "their own spiritual superiority,"35 they are, at bottom, typically evasive, illogical, and intellectually dishonest. You just can't trust 'em.

The declared purpose of this material, according to the video, is to prevent people from being "entangled in the Mormon net," ....

Comments

[meep]

I am very willing to grant that Huckabee is not lying.... because he's an ignorant man in general.

Someone over at Ace's said that he comes across as intellectually lazy, and I agree. Even Bush is not as mentally torpid as the media portray, but they wouldn't have to work hard with Huck.

[JIVEWIRE]

Ron Paul is the only principled politician running on the republican side. he has never flip flopped, unlike Giuliani, Romney, and Huckabee.

Huckabee as president is as scary as Giuliani as president, because Huckabee is a different kind of danger to democracy than fascist Ghouliani- Huckabee would use government to enforce virtue, which is not the role of government. Huckabee claims Jesus told him to vote for Chimp Bush in '04 (sure Jesus loves warmongering!), wanted to quarantine AIDS patients in '92, raised taxes more than Clinton in Arkansas, wanted to provide tuitions to ILLEGAL ALIENS (sure, have you taxes pay for school for illegals?), and especially scary was his personal letter to a supposed "born again" rapist letting the man know that the Huckster wanted to release him. Huckster had the man released, even after letters from prior victims, warning Huckabee that the man was a danger, and would rape again or WORSE. Huckster even received a letter from one of the rapists victims, pleading with the Southern fool to not release the rapist. She was raped while her 3 year old daughter was in bed with her, and the rapist said if she tries to fight he would rape her daughter. The rapist was released, and then raped and killed someone.

Don't fall for Huckabee's silver tongue and smooth charm. Besides, he'll get slaughtered in the general election, with all the skeletons in his closet!

GOOGLE RON PAUL and join the R3VOLUTION!

[Jaded]

Wow just wow! you would think these 3000 baptist's would go to Detroit to try to get Muslims to reform and become Christians but no it's the Mormons they are proselytizing to.

I think each and every religion ought to just sell themselves by the lives they live and leave the others alone. pathetic crap really.

[Aaron Shafovaloff]

Mormonism Research Ministry (MRM.org) just released:

"The Relationship Between Jesus and Lucifer in a Mormon Context"

[jj]

Uh, Jaded, if you have a problem with 3000 Baptists going to Salt Lake City to convert Mormons, then I presume you don't like the proselyting Mormons that number in the 10,000s going all over the country trying to convert Baptists or Methodists to their religion. Is that right? I would just like you to be consistent on this issue.

[Sara]

Baptists are beginning to frighten me more than Muslim Extremists. They seem to be very misguided.

[Sara]

I don't happen to believe that God gave Baptists the right to guard the gates to Him at the expense of everyone else, Jews, Catholics, Mormons, other denominations. Their John Smyth or Roger Williams were just men, no more, no less. I'll live by the Constitution:

Article Six (in part)

"The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but NO RELIGIOUS TEST shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States."

[jj]

Yeah, those evil Baptists are running around killing themselves and others in suicide bombings, and planting car bombs, and cutting the heads off the infidels. Watch out, the radical Baptists are after you.

You're a real trip, Sara. And speaking of misguided, you, ma'am are that and misinformed as well. Although I'm a Methodist, I've never heard a Baptist propose a religious test. You are being disingeneous at best.

[Mick Stockinger]

I should disclose that I wrote the original email that got picked up by Hugh Hewitt and then ACE.

Huckabee goes out of his way to say that he "doesn't know much about Mormons...", and while that may be true in the objective sense, he does know an awful lot about Southern Baptist apologetics concerning the Mormon "cult".

He repeated asserts his ignorance of Mormonism to avoid questions about the institutional bigotry of the SBC. Its like former Klansman Robert Byrd claiming that he doesn't know much about "negroes".

Its not just Huckabee--every Southern Baptist is indoctrinated in distortions of Mormon beliefs and confirmed in the belief of the "low character" of the members of the faith.

So lets ask the obvious question--is this relevant?

You better believe it. Mormons know who and what Huckabee is, and in spite of the fact that they are about 5-6 million here in the U.S., the have a significant impact on the electoral votes of several western states. Democrats are well ahead of Republicans on the opposition research on Huckabee, and they will deluge key states with examples of SBC-Huckabee bigotry. Consider that Mormons literally control the electoral votes of Wyoming, Utah and Idaho and have significant sway in Arizona, Colorado and Montana. If you can depress the Mormon vote in these states, you hand the presidency to the Democrat nominee.

That fact makes what Huckabee "knows" about Mormons extremely relevant.

[Sara]

Well I believe in the Word of God, not the Word of the Baptists, sorry, I think they are wrong on a number of counts. But, it isn't their theology that bothers me, to each his own, but the way they act as if they are somehow the only way. Baptists are modern day Saducees and Jesus didn't think much of them.

My family were Welsh Quakers and Scots-Irish Presbyterians. The majority of the Quakers went on through the generations to become Methodists and Mormons. The Presbyterians are still Presbyterians. My four closest friends in my youth were 3 Jews and a Catholic. My son chose the LDS church to attend, my daughter couldn't make up her mind, so we took the church directory published in the Saturday paper and spent a year starting alphabetically and visiting each of those churches. In the end, she chose a non-denominational Christian congregation that had a large youth program.

[jj]

Well, Sara, your comments about Baptists were pretty nasty. I know several Baptists, including some Southern Baptists, and I've never seen them act the way you describe. You ought to meet and interact with some Baptists before you make any more derogatory remarks about them, and if I have offended, well, I'm sorry, but this piling on the Baptists has gotten under my skin.

[Sara]

Mormons also have alot of sway in So. Calif. Back in the '70s, I lived in a subdivision in which every house on the street was a Mormon household. Some of the nicest and smartest people I've had the honor of calling neighbors. Not the description of Baptists as given in Dan's original post above. I just cannot believe that any sect, who trumpets their Christianity above all others, and preaches so much hate, can be "of God," I'm sorry if this steps on toes, but that is how I feel. I want nothing to do with a religious organization that breeds the likes of Fred Phelps, the KKK or the SBC.

[Sara]

jj: Other than this last comment before this one, what have I said about Baptists. My comments have been ones to say how much I hold Mormons in high regard, not what my feelings about Baptists are. I don't believe in organized religion. I prefer to keep my spiritual life and my relation to God on a one on one basis and not practice by rules made by man, of any denomination. I wrote in another thread that Jesus said the greatest commandment, the one that supersedes all others, is LOVE. If love doesn't dictate, then those preaching are not of God or Christ. Where those 3000 who took their hate-filled hearts to Salt Lake acting in a Christ-like fashion? Not to my mind they weren't.

But, as far as our politics, it is irrelevant. The Constitution says, "NO RELIGIOUS TEST shall EVER be required."

[seekeronos]

"--- Ron Paul is the only principled politician running on the republican side. he has never flip flopped, unlike Giuliani, Romney, and Huckabee. ---"

Ron Paul seems to be alright, except for that whole conspiracy theory/Troofer weirdness - and few hundred thousand lunatic followers who, outside of themselves, have no hope of getting their man the GOP nomination, but rather cement opinion against them by using the same botting tactics that certain moonbats like CODE PINKO.

"--- Wow just wow! you would think these 3000 baptist's would go to Detroit to try to get Muslims to reform and become Christians but no it's the Mormons they are proselytizing to. ---"

T'would be nice if they did. I'd agree that Muslims are much more dangerous to our national security than the Mormons.

"--- I don't happen to believe that God gave Baptists the right to guard the gates to Him at the expense of everyone else, Jews, Catholics, Mormons, other denominations. Their John Smyth or Roger Williams were just men, no more, no less. I'll live by the Constitution... ---"

Wrong. If anyone wants to come to God, it is through Jesus Christ and Him alone. Not anyone else. The Word of God (available in English in the King James Version, AV 1611) is the only doctrine by which we can know God.

The US Constitution on the other hand, while a most excellent document that outlines the responsibilities of government and protects the God-given, natural rights of the people... it is not appropriate for determining how we should live, nor addresses the nature of God or the mean by which He has redeemed us from sin to Himself.

"--- Its not just Huckabee--every Southern Baptist is indoctrinated in distortions of Mormon beliefs and confirmed in the belief of the "low character" of the members of the faith. ---"

Wrong again. I've known plenty of Southern Baptists who have never said nary a word about Mormons, except that they too, need to hear the Word of God. Now, I know that the SBC does say and publish certain things that are matter of their private interpretation of Scripture, but they key here is that every adult Christian is responsible for his own walk with the Lord, and for searching the scriptures to see whether or not those teachings are in concordance with God's Word.

For this reason, I am an Independent Baptist (raised Catholic, went atheist, then by the grace of God, saved through the hearing of God's Word).

As Independent Baptists, (stress upon the word "independent") we do not have a ecumenical or consular body or conventions (like the SBC) the Synods or the Bishoprics or similar constructs, but every local church stands solely upon the authority of God's Word.

Now is sending 3,000 missionaries to Salt Lake City a right thing to do?

I think it was, *if in fact they are preaching the Word of God* (66 books of the Bible, plus nothing, minus nothing)... and speaking it with a HUMBLE heart and as motivated by the Holy Spirit, *doing so in LOVE*.

If done in the spirit of "my God is can beat up your god", or harping on the minor bits of LDS doctrine that is in various states of non/observance... then such preaching is misguided, and may even be counterproductive.

In fact, more Bible-believing Christians (regardless of particular alignment) start acting upon the Great Commission of Matthew 28:18-20 --

"-----
18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
-----"
(Matthew 28:18-20, KJV)

This, Sara, is the greatest expression of the Great Commandment of Love: for if we do not share the Word of God which is able to save the souls of lost men and women, is that not love to warn people of the danger of going to an enternal fiery Hell, and telling them of the Way, the Truth, and the Life, the only Way by which they can escape Hell?

[jj]

Wow, Sara, just wow! The Baptists ARE so evil, having given rise to Fred Phelps, the KKK, and the SBC. First of all, I doubt Fred Phelps is a part of the SBC. And as for the KKK, I really don't know whether Baptists created that organization or not. But wasn't that in the past?

But since you brought up the past, I seem to remember the Mormons participating in a massacre of over a hundred settlers from Arkansas. It was called the Mountain Meadows Massacre, and the facts are not in dispute. Men, women and children killed for no reason, slaughtered for no reason. So if you want to bring up ancient history, remember the old adage, "People in glass houses shouldn't throw stones".

[Mark]

I am tired of attacks on the Mormon religion. Although I am sure they will continue, I will fight all attacks on the Church of Jesus Christ. If you have any doubts or questions about "Mormons" please email me: depquarm@gmail.com