House Tears Down Border Fence

Are you surprised? Michelle has details.

Comments

[joeb]

Sorry to hear about this. I support the fence. My wife does not. I doubt that a fence would keep anyone out anyway. And fences along the border while sounding like a good idea have a bit of the Berlin Wall about them don't they?

[jj]

You either have to have a fence or a M-16 if you want to have border security. I prefer the fence, myself, and I know no one has the guts to use an M-16, so there will be no border, there will be no security, and a terrorist will slip through there soon enough and make us pay dearly.

[Fred Beloit]

"And fences along the border while sounding like a good idea have a bit of the Berlin Wall about them don't they?"

Actually, Joeb, no they don't. The Berlin wall was erected to keep people inside a totalitarian state from getting out of a failing socialistic and into a succeeding free-market environment. Our fences would be erected to keep out those who selfishly want to get in without obeying the democratically created laws we have established to protect ourselves from invaders. "Invaders" being those who want to come in illegally and against our will. Isn't that what an invader wants to do? You know, like a home invader.

[seekeronos]

A wall, a series of minefields, and the surplus of brutalized pits confiscated from Vick along with a deployment of angry Texans armed with heavy weaponry and an ample supply of Lone Star might very well do the trick, if they are let alone to do their work.

[Fred Beloit]

Sounds like you may live in one of the invaded areas, seek. About 95% of the nation I guess.

[Jay]

Anyone who doesn't "believe in a fence" is either a Latino who feels he has a God given right to "migrate" to and fro or they are an American who doesn't have property near our southern border.

There's an invasion going on and to deny it is foolish and just plain ignorant (uninformed).

Mexico plans on sending another 20-30 million of it's peasants to our nation. Do the American people want this or do we have no say? If we have no say, then we don't have a democratic republic.

[IslamoLlama]

"Actually, Joeb, no they don't. The Berlin wall was erected to keep people inside a totalitarian state from getting out of a failing socialistic and into a succeeding free-market environment."

Our fence would be to keep people inside a corrupt wage-slaved economy of failing hyper-capitalism so we can keep getting cheap shoes and mattresses without paying minimum-wage rates that American workers would require.

See, Mexicans want to immigrant to the United States. But we cap the rate at 60k/year. And most of those immigrants are professionals or the educated. So we brain drain our neighbors to the south while using NAFTA to turn countries into giant labor mills. The big joke about NAFTA was how it allowed the import and export of virtually every resource you could name except labor.

Of course, all that is trivial now because all the outsourcing is done to China. And it gets even funnier because now we're seeing an uptick in the number of Chinese illegal immigrants. Of course, they're not flooding across the southern border, they're slipping in through all our west-coast ports.

So while seeker is busy diligently setting up razor-wire and bear traps in the Arizona desert, feel better knowing that some 10-20k new foreign born yellow people will be invading our country from the west, waltzing right behind your back.

[Nessus]

Mexico is a CHRONICALLY corrupt nation, decade after decade even century after century. Why? It's in their nature, that why. Brutal truth hurts sometimes but it nevertheless is. Latinos are poorly organized politically, poorly educated and they posses mucho amounts of self esteem and self pride, much of it without justification. If it weren't for the US, most Mexicans would still be living in adobe cave-like homes.

The US admits more legal Mexican immigrants than any other immigrant sending nation. That's not including the huge number of Mexican illegals. If we raised the number of legal Mexican immigrants, it would only also increase the numbrer of illegal Mexican immigrants, get the picture?

Tough love is what Mexico needs. Force them to reform politically/economically. Otherwise, the US will become North Latin America.

[Fred Beloit]

"Our fence would be to keep people inside" Not simply wrong...idiotic. The fence is to keep illegals out and you know it.

"a corrupt wage-slaved economy of failing hyper-capitalism" Yes, that's why the stores are full of American wage slaves buying 40+ in. plasma TVs, computers and expensive electronic dodads, costly toys for the children, SUVs, all in the face of a falling stock market, the payback to the greedy for buying homes they cannot afford or recklessly trying to flip over-priced condos, and the high price of oil. It is called free choice in some quarters.

"...so we can keep getting cheap shoes and mattresses without paying minimum-wage rates that American workers would require." Wrong. If you shop around you can find many high-priced beds and bedding and shoes, some high-priced American, some Swedish, some Danish, etc. You are free to pay as much as you want. So am I.

"...without paying minimum-wage rates that American workers would require." Exactly how much is that? You seem to feel you are well-informed. How much in dollars and cents exactly, Mr. Better-Red-Than-Dead?

"So we brain drain our neighbors to the south while using NAFTA to turn countries into giant labor mills." So, you prefer our neighbors to have huge joblessness, is that it? Heartless I would call it. They seem to want to work for a living.

"See, Mexicans want to immigrant to the United States. But we cap the rate at 60k/year."
Is it that high? Seeing we already have tens of millions here that seems to high to me. You know what all the exactitudes of the world are, how manmy exactly do you want per year? Please provide percentages of educated, illiterate, criminal, and insane please. That would be helpful.

Gee, wrily, I know I'm not nearly as good as you are at this, but it is fun. Especially when one has one of the most overly-emotional, feel-good-about-myself goofs on the planet on the opposing side.

[IslamoLlama]

"Mexico is a CHRONICALLY corrupt nation, decade after decade even century after century. Why? It's in their nature, that why."

:p The same could be said for the US. Certainly, you wouldn't argue that Congress was devoid of corruption in the summer of '94 when Gingrich swept into power on the reform platform Contract With America. And you would be hard pressed to argue that Congress has become less corrupt after DeLay scandal on top of Abramoff scandal on top of Mark Foley scandal.

Is it in America's nature to be corrupt? Will you shortly be packing your bags for Switzerland or South Korea? I thought not.

The US admits more legal Mexican immigrants than any other immigrant sending nation because they live right next door. If you told me France lets in higher numbers of German and Spanish nationals than any other nation, I couldn't be less surprised. We're supposed to be letting in record numbers of Mexicans.

As for this talk of "tough love", when have we not had a "tough love" policy on Mexico? It's been a use'm-and-lose'm resource rape since we annexed Texas. We take what we want from our southern neighbor while fattening the wallets of their political elite.

But all this talk of "tough love" is the highest form of bullshit. You publicly ask for some sort of social revolution down south while quietly pressing for the looser trade restrictions and tighter border restrictions that make social reform that much more impossible. You demand political and economic change that necessitates a strong middle class while pressing for policy that breaks the back of southern middle class workers. Forcing a labor overload below the border and creating a labor deficit above the border, you insist that Mexicans should do what exactly to improve their social situation? Unionize? Appeal to external non-corrupt government entities for civil justice? Demand fairer elections with voting monitors and recounts? Pick up guns and storm city hall?

[Fred Beloit]

"Certainly, you wouldn't argue that Congress was devoid of corruption in the summer of '94 when Gingrich swept into power on the reform platform Contract With America." You silly. Newt wasn't swept into anything. The people voted in that Congress. See they were getting a little tired of paying to support the Liberals pet charities. Shouldn't people be allowed to select their own charities? Your answer doesn't matter. Just get used to it.

"Is it in America's nature to be corrupt?" Yes it is. It is our constitution. Corrupt minds like yours and Murtha's have just as many rights to expression as anyone else's. Naturally some corruption follows from these freedoms you have.

"It's been a use'm-and-lose'm resource rape since we annexed Texas. We take what we want from our southern neighbor while fattening the wallets of their political elite."
What a whole lot of propaganda to be packed into such a small bag. Guess they must like being raped and you must like watching because your entire argument is LET'S HAVE MORE OF THE SAME. Tell us, you who are so wise in the ways of Economics, how does allowing illegal immigration fatten the wallets of Mex politicians?

[Fred Beloit]

Are you OK? Pardon my concern, but I'm worried about your health when you write: "Forcing a labor overload below the border..." A labor overload below the border? Isn't it true that you think they come here to pick fruit for low wages? Why would they do that if jobs were crying for workers in Mexico?

[Nessus]

"The same could be said for the US. Certainly, you wouldn't argue that Congress was devoid of corruption in the summer of '94 when Gingrich swept into power on the reform platform Contract With America."

According to the UN's World Bank, just a few months ago (google it), the World Bank cited Mexico as one of the most corrupt nations in the world, when it comes to political and economic issues.

It only takes someone not willing to face the truth. The proof of the pudding is in the eating. Mexico has been unable to do much of anything for oh.....almost two centuries. Why? It's the culture which enables high degrees of corruption. All nations are corrupt, like all people but the question is to what degree? By comparison to the rest of the world, the US operates fairly above the table.

Also according to the World Bank, two-thirds of Mexico's population is approximately grade school educated and over half of the working population doesn't pay income tax. Furthermore, no nation in the world is losing their population like Mexico's, people are voting with their feet. They choose to leave their homeland not just for a job but to get away from the corruption. Vicente Fox, just a few weeks ago said that most of the "migrants" had jobs back in Mexico, they only come to the US to make 10-15 times their wages.

Thus, "chronically corrupt" is an accurate description.

It all comes down to whether or not we as Americans want to remain a country or just an employment center for the 3rd world.

No manufacturing = no independent country. No borders = no country, period.

[seekeronos]

I seem to be blocked from posting...

[Dan Riehl]

"blocked from posting..."

Not by me.

[seekeronos]

Yup, something in the spam filter bot is preventing me from posting my original comment.

[seekeronos]

I'll try it in piecemeal to see if I can isolate the problem...

"--- Sounds like you may live in one of the invaded areas, seek. ---"

Not yet... I live in the northern suburbs of the NYC greater metro area. But then again, there is a sorta invasion underway... you see, there's this town a few miles up the river from me that up until the 1960s, was primarily populated by third and fourth generation Americans of German, Italian, Portuguese, and Irish extraction. In other words, mostly European.

[seekeronos]

Then, LBJ (D-Texas) comes along with his "War on Poverty" and urban renewal initiatives, and certain city fathers and other semi-corrupt individuals decide that it would be a good idea to advertise that particular town as a welfare haven for the droves of destitute African-Americans who were more or less made unemployable as the agricultural industry caught up to the South.

Deals were made and webs were spun, and a good many of these deceived African-Americans set up shop in that Yankee town. The local industries experienced a fair amount of "white flight", and unable to compete using market glutted with unskilled and often unwilling labourers, and at the same time unwilling to pay the old help enough to keep them from fleeing, the industries eventually closed up shop. That town died on the vine in a matter of years, and shortly after, in the 1970s, it became quite notorious as a drug and vice distribution node, to say nothing of the riotous behaviour of its new citizenry - only a very small fraction - some 5% of the original European population remained, and these are rapidly dying off.

[seekeronos]

Today, that town has once again changed its demographic - where it was once 75% African-American (a microcosm of other majority African-American towns like Camden, NJ) it is now about a 50-50 split of blacks and Hispanic immigrants. Most of them are Salvadorans and Guatemalans, with a sizable Mexican minority.

The noteworthy thing about this is that in recent years, that town had begun to crawl itself out of its former nightmarish abyss of heavily race-dominated political factionalism and social regression, as community leaders had begun to realize that feeding off of Big Momma's social spending teats was not a way to success. However, another wave of migrations is now undoing that progress as gang violence and more drug activity by way of vile rebels against decent society such as the MS-13 (Mara Salvatrucha) and other misfits destabilize that unfortunate town.

[seekeronos]

Of course, there are hardworking people amongst the rabble who want to make a better living for themselves - but with an open-border policy that lets anyone and everyone over the border "just to play nice-like"... that means there is absolutely no control or say in preventing the scumbags who would wreck your town and who refuse to assimilate and become decent American citizens just like everyone else who came before them.

The other side of this argument, BTW... is this:

"--- Anyone who doesn't 'believe in a fence' is either a Latino who feels he has a God given right to "migrate" to and fro or they are an American who doesn't have property near our southern border. ---"

That's exactly right. A good many of the 'bad guys' (re: MS-13'ers, La Raza, MECHistas, and other criminal types) believe that at least the southwestern 2/3 of the USA belong to Mexico. Apparently, the Treaty of Hildago Guadeloupe is but a scrap of paper to them, and they really need to be instructed - perhaps at gunpoint - otherwise.

Such people are the ones who want to see their Aztec banners and the Mexican Revolutionary standard flying over Old Glory (if Old Glory is even allowed the privilege of being raised) in our "Ciudades de Santuario para los migrantes" (sanctuary cities) and at the many state capitols and schools of our southwestern states.

(End of post)

[Nessus]

You are correct seekeronos, the US flag has been taken down at a few public schools and post offices over the past couple of years with nary a complaint registered by our so called political leaders.

Remember, about 3,000 people illegally cross our southern border each and every day. Estimates are that about 10% of them are serious criminals (beyond all of them in the sense of they are all breaking several laws coming here and working here without permission). 10% of 3,000 is what? 300. 300 per day, each and every day.

Mexico is exporting not only it's peasants but it's criminals too. We are patsies. All for the sake of the US taxpayer subsidizing business's desire for cheap, illegal, black market labor.

[templar knight]

There ya' go, Nessus, you identified the real problem. Big business has outsourced everything it possibly can overseas, and what it couldn't outsource, it filled those positions with low wage illegal immigrants. This problem will never be solved until we deal with these corporations with exactly the same amount of ferver that needs to be used on these illegals. But Big Business needs to be dealt with first.

[seekeronos]

"--- But Big Business needs to be dealt with first. ---"

The two go hand-in-hand. Laws - and existing laws - should be enforced to penalize big business that coddles illegals, and at the same time, it might help to give small business greater opportunity for growth (by way of tax reductions or 100% federal tax removal) to compete locally with the Big Boxes.