Even Generals Can Be Wrong

Via the Huffington Post, thirty retired military officers jump their former pay grades to support the ban on water boarding. Details on the bill at The Gavel. No matter what you feel, this is not a military issue and no one is advocating the water boarding of traditional POWs by the military. That, according to the Geneva Conventions, would be wrong. But the intelligence gathering function is a different matter and should be decided on grounds upon which Generals and Admirals have no more standing than any other citizen of the United States.

Thirty retired admirals and generals have penned a letter to key Democrats, urging them to defy President Bush's veto threats and pass legislation requiring U.S intelligence agents to follow strict standards for detainee treatment.

Comments

[seekernonos]

Are these the same retired generals and admirals that Soros paid off to grouse about how horrible the Chimperor's quagmire was going?

I'd say these retired generals are in somebody's pocket, or perhaps they have been trained in their senescent years to parrot Code Pinko talking points.

They don't get to make the call for what the CIA or NSA operatives need to do to secure vital information from enemy combatants or other nontraditional enemy assets/francs-tireurs who are outside the protections of the Geneva Conventions.

[Worst_President_Ever]

I guess those aren't the guys that destroyed the interrogation tapes.

Those military vets might not like the idea since lowering the bar on torture may mean when our troops get captured in some future war, waterboarding may be the treatment of the day.

[Mark A. Flacy]

"Those military vets might not like the idea since lowering the bar on torture may mean when our troops get captured in some future war, waterboarding may be the treatment of the day."

Christ, this is like the plastic turkey BS that never dies. Read the Geneva Convention, for crying out loud.

[Scrapiron]

You mean the number of Generals/Admirals that failed in their assigned mission is now up to 30. Funny how the failures become experts after they get the boot. Recall them, bust them to E-1 and assign them to the front line in the mountains. The Afgan troops will show them where they failed in leadership.

[Unquiet]

I can see it now. Sometime in the future, an unfortunate Navy SEAL sits in some dark interigation room as he tries his best to look terrified when his interigators threaten him.

"If you don't talk we are going to use WATERBOARDING!!!!"

The SEAL outwardly screams NOOO! Don't dunk me under WATER! Not WATER!

... while in that safe place in his mind he thinks:

I can't believe they bought it.
Waterboarding has replaced hooking my balls up to a battery and cutting off my fingers.
Not a bad plan.

He has to suppress a smile as he thinks:

Don't throw me in that brier patch!
...and silently sings: Born and raised in a brier patch...

/sarc

[Fred Beloit]

Unquiet has joined in showing again (a really fun job, but someone has to do it) why Worst can always be counted upon to be wrong on every issue. Notice Worst mentions future wars. Guess Worse figures when the Dems control the Presidency and Congress there will be more wars. Worst doesn't mention the current wars wherein any of our troops captured by the savages would experience what real torture is.

[seekeronos]

Indeed, Fred.

I think folks like WPE who bow the knee before the altar of George Soros and other SorosBots are salivating over the possibility of ordering Hillary to order our troops into Darfur - which has no particular strategic value - as a part of his goal of further weakening American influence and position in the world.

[Worst President Ever]

Maybe Unquiet, Seek and Fred can sponsor a Terrorist Summit and get all 30 of those generals and admirals to come. You could get Kiefer Sutherland - sorry, you know him as American Hero and Torture Instructor Jack Bauer - to come and give a seminar on Torture Techniques - WHy it Always works on '24'.

[Fred Beloit]

Dear Worst, this one's for you, it isn't my creation but isn't copyrighted either.

To all my Democrat friends:
Please accept with no obligation, implied or implicit, my best wishes for an environmentally conscious, socially responsible, low-stress, non-addictive, gender-neutral celebration of the winter solstice holiday, practiced within the most enjoyable traditions of the religious persuasion of your choice, or secular practices of your choice, with respect for the religious/secular persuasion and/or traditions of others, or their choice not to practice religious or secular traditions at all. I also wish you a fiscally successful, personally fulfilling and medically uncomplicated recognition of the onset of the generally accepted calendar year 2008, but not without due respect for the calendars of choice of other cultures whose contributions to society have helped make America great. Not to imply that America is necessarily greater than any other country nor the only America in the Western Hemisphere. Also, this wish is made without regard to the race, creed, color, age, physical ability, religious faith or sexual preference of the wishee.


To all my Republican friends:
Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!

[Fred Beloit]

Worst writes: "...sorry, you know him as American Hero and Torture Instructor Jack Bauer..." Not so, my dear Mr. President. I know him as a Leftist actor's son. For this reason, and many others, your comment makes no sense to me.

[Techie]

WPE, like several leftists, has trouble distinguishing fantasy from reality.

[Worst President Ever]

"WPE, like several leftists, has trouble distinguishing fantasy from reality."

Somewhat ironic coming from a guy I bet believed every word of the BS about Iraq - THAT was fantasy.

[Fred Beloit]

Ms Ever is stuck in a quagmire. It is called 2003.

[nichevo]

Hate to pile on WPE, but...

Ask Daniel Pearl if he would have preferred waterboarding to...being beheaded. Oops!

Ask Nicholas Berg if he would have preferred waterboarding to...being beheaded. Oops!

Ask Fabrizio Quattrocchi...oops!

Ask Menchaca & Tucker. Ask the Blackwater Four at Fallujah. Ask countless Iraqi kidnap victims. Ask pretty much anyone who has had the misfortune to be captured by the enemy in this war whether waterboarding was the worst thing that could have happened to them.

OOPS! They're all dead and mutilated!

...

What people forget, even conservatives who probably know better, is the joy part of the Geneva Conventions:

When one side throws 'em out, the other side ain't bound by 'em any more.

IIRC, Daniel Pearl came before Guantanamo. Nick Berg came before Abu Ghraib.

Our enemies are real bastards (well, that dishonors everyone not fortunate enough to have married parents) and it's silly to ignore it.

You're worried about Iran waterboarding our guys if they catch 'em like those poor sucker Brits? Well,

1) never happen because unlike the UK, our state religion has just one extra Commandment: Thou shalt have superior firepower.

2) if 1) above neglected, well, go get 'em back, boys!

3) if not 2) then let the Iranian ruling elite know what will happen to them if our fallen troops are not picked up, dusted off, offered a cooling drink, and escorted to an air-conditioned waiting room until their Freedom Bird arrives. Without any nonsense to their persons.

China, a much more powerful nation, was at least smart enough to not maltreat the crew of the downed EP-3 at Hainan. I wanted Bush to stomp as necessary to get crew and plane back, but I respected his restraint at the time. Now, if the flight crew had got poked at? I don't think so.

...WPE: on believing 'everything' about Iraq, whatever that means, would you please provide the link(s) to where you called:

Bill Clinton, Al Gore, Hillary Clinton, Madeline Albright, Joe Biden, John Kerry, John Edwards, and a bunch of US and foreign pols and experts of all kinds who repeatedly went on record saying they believed exactly the same things,

lying liars and stupid BSing poopy heads?

Yeah, I missed that part.

[Worst President Ever]

The deaths of those people have nothing to do with whether we should torture or not. Unless you're arguing that our standard for behavior is whatever the terrorist do: They torture so we OK. Next thing, we'll be recruiting suicide bombers and promising them a free pass to heaven.

Then you write that if Iran waterboards our guys, we'll use our "superior firepower". So I guess you think waterboarding our troops calls for a major response which implies you see it as some sort of abuse / torture. And if you filling up is expensive now, just wait until after we attack Iran.

It's George Bush's War, period. He gave the speeches, presented the BS evidence, sent Powell to the UN - not John Kerry, not Al Gore, not John Edwards. Without George, there'd have been no Iraq War. But the buck never seems to stop with George Bush, it's ALWAYS somebody else's fault. Here's Bush in a nutshell: One day he's John Wayne, talking Osama: Dead or Alive. A few months later he says "I don't know. I don't really think about him very much. I'm not that concerned".

Fact is, Iraq had no WMDs, no nuclear program, do drones to cross the Atlantic. There were no Al Qaeda ties and no links to 9/11. Yeah, that mushroom cloud imagery by Condi was all BS. And the Iraqi oil revenues were supposed to pay for the war, not cost us $4 billion a week.

[Wahoo Willie Sez:]

"Fact is, Iraq had no WMDs, no nuclear program, do drones to cross the Atlantic. There were no Al Qaeda ties and no links to 9/11. Yeah, that mushroom cloud imagery by Condi was all BS. And the Iraqi oil revenues were supposed to pay for the war, not cost us $4 billion a week."

All of this typical, overused,totally useless and mostly false mikey moore diatribe aside. One would assume that had these things or 3 of 5 been "true" YOU would be all for going to war with Iraq? Basically it would be ok with you to invade N Korea, Syria, Iran and lord knows who else as long as they meet the 3 out of five test?

Sorry, lefties and questions: BDSBDSBDSBDSBDS

[Worst President Ever]

"All of this typical, overused,totally useless and mostly false mikey moore diatribe aside."

No, it's a fact that Iraq had no chemical WMDs and no nuclear program.