This Can't Be Happening In America

Without editorializing on any of the measures here, contrast some voting returns from yesterday with what you might expect. Blue NJ rejects government borrowing for stem cell research. Blue Oregon rejects an increased cigarette tax to fund children's health care. Reddish Utah rejects a state-wide school voucher program.

New Jersey voters rejected the state's plan to borrow $450 million over 10 years to finance stem cell research, one of the most closely watched questions on state ballots Tuesday.

In other action at the polls, Utah voters were poised to defeat the country's first statewide school voucher program open to all children, not just those from low- or middle-income families. And in Oregon, residents decided against hiking the cigarette tax to pay for health care for kids who don't have it.

Comments

[LOL]

rofl interesting stuff.

Also Democrat Beshear crushes Republican incumbent Governor in red state Kentucky. A brief intimation of what is to be

[bobInStamford]

"Reddish Utah". Whata dope...

[seekeronos]

"--- 'Reddish Utah'. Whata dope... ---"

Seems kind of reddish-magenta to me, but I'm no Utahn.

"--- Democrat Beshear crushes Republican incumbent Governor in red state Kentucky. A brief intimation of what is to be ---"

So you hope. But then again, the Dems enjoy a majority of governorships at present. And not _all_ of those Dem governors are crackpot nutroots anklebiters like y'all.

Once again, the radical left will be disappointed as the Dems yield to the sane center.

[chris]

Whats going on with the bumpkin candidate, Fred! Thompson? The lazy old coot isn't even campaigning any more. Quite a field you guys have!!

[Wahoo Willie Sez:]

"Quite a field you guys have!!"
chrissy almost made a point...almost...There is no decent candidate from either of your parties worth taking a passing glance at. I can't just hold my nose, close my eyes and hit a button in '08. Going to have to hire someone to do it for me.

[seekeronos]

Fred's doing just fine. But... we shall se how Jan. 8th bears up in IA, and later in SC and NH.

Though the MSM seems to want to call IA for Romney, NH for McCain, SC for FDT, and nearly everything else for Rudy... it really is too early to call the game finished.

More importantly... how about them Dems? Just when one thought they were safely ensconced in an inevitable rush to the Inaugural Address of Mesdames Hillary and Billary Clinton, Part Deux... reports of the delicious fighting between the leading dhimmicrats will result in an echo of the 1988 election, where Gore was quite the picador that left the one fatal blow that killed the Dukakis charge - that whole "revolving door" prison furlough thing.

Hopefully, the Hildabeast will likewise perish for her doublespeaking about her support for Eliot "Let's give EVERYBODY a driver license - even that funny looking guy with the turban-bomb-hat" Spitzer's foolishness.

Can you smell it? Ah, yes, indeed... it is the faintest whiff of blue blood in the air.

Though her steps likely won't falter enough to bring her down in the primaries (to give us an unelectable clod like Edwards or Obama)... yet the predatory litigator stylings of Edwards might be just enough to ensure a GOP POTUS in 2009.

[waka waka]

DOn't forget Virginia's senate going Democratic. It was a good night, friends.

[Ennis]

Part of the problem in Utah at the moment is there are too damn many Californians moving there to escape the shit hole their wonderful LLL policies have made of that state. it is the same problem that both Arizona, Nevada, New Mexico and Colorado have. Not to worry though, once most of them get out from under the LLL nanny state they start coming around like a person who just got out of the gulag. The ones who can not handle living without the LLL nanny state usually go running back as soon as they can no matter how much it will cost them.

Another problem with any campaign to get school vouchers is the mega million dollar propaganda campaigns designed to scare parents with all sorts of lies. Anything to make sure the Gubmint indoctrination centers and the teachers unions keep those kids in their claws.

[Cindi]

Screw the vouchers. All though I support the idea, it won't happen anytime soon. If you want your child to have a better education, you will have to pay for it on your own.

On a happier note. Pleased that the republicans in my area took control again!

[Lala]

Republicans took control of the City Council where I live. Dems are usually a shoo-in here.

[southdakotaboy]

Big sweep in Indy for the Republicans. And before you start making to much of the pickups in Virginia look at the fact that it is due in large part to the movement of people from D.C. area to the suburbs in N. Virginia.
Demographics may play a bigger part in the rebuilding of the Republican majority then many people realize. The census is coming in 2010 and it looks like many of the Red states are going to stay Red and pickup House seats.

[dumbblonde]

Hmmm. Voters are closing their wallets to more, more, more spending and just saying "no" to more debt. Awesome.

[JustADude]

In about 2 years the mass migration of Republicans hitting retirement age will be heading to the red states to make them even more Red and leave behind the dems to eat their own when the productive workers walk and the new PC types advance into their old jobs and then promptly muck them up.

Big deal they are gonna leave those already blue states and just make them more blue and in short order the blues will blow it when they realize the best and the brightest are gone and they now have to tax each other even more to keep their circus wheel turning, but the rich will be gone to be robbed from no more.

[Wahoo Willie Sez:]

"In about 2 years the mass migration of Republicans hitting retirement age will be heading to the red states."

Two years? You say there are even more coming? Oh God please NO, no more please go elsewhere. I hear Chile is nice.

[LOL]

"Big deal they are gonna leave those already blue states and just make them more blue and in short order the blues will blow it when they realize the best and the brightest are gone and they now have to tax each other even more to keep their circus wheel turning, but the rich will be gone to be robbed from no more."

Interesting. Actually red states pay less in taxes than they take from the federal government. Blue states pay more in taxes than they take.

Blue states also on average have higher life expectancies, better mean and median incomes as well.

[seekeronos]

"--- Interesting. Actually red states pay less in taxes than they take from the federal government. Blue states pay more in taxes than they take.

Blue states also on average have higher life expectancies, better mean and median incomes as well. ---"

I wonder how much of this is a fluke of numbers and populations... granted, there are a lot of very wealthy liberal elites in the Blue Northeast and Blue Pacific Coast, but when factored in with the ultra-wealthy Red "corporatist" families who also contribute a far greater portion of tax dollars than Joe Doakes and his 120-million other average drinking buddies (who as individuals range from working poor to middle income: > 25,000p.a. to 60,000p.a. ) combined.

Better incomes? That is more a matter of the economics of life nearer and in cities generally offering a higher cost of living that goes along with a higher *expectation* of standards.

Likewise, costs of living out in flyover-land are generally lower, even thought you have to drive a few more hours to get to a decent operahouse or other hoity-toity venue more commonly found in major metropolises (metropoli?)...

But I think where JustaDude was going with this is... for all the edja-mah-cated Lib'ruls in the city... there are a dozen or more permanent working poor or hopelessly poor who are in small part victims of the Blue Socialist Entitlement Spending Disease.

If the Reds skip town, then yes... the same wealthy Blues will be left holding the bag for their miserably ineffective Entitlement programs that keep the working poor and below from ever wanting to do more and lift themselves off of the government teat.

As for Red States paying less taxes... well, that could depend upon how you are counting the taxes.

Are you just looking at personal federal income tax, or did you include business/corporate income taxes as well?

How you calculate this makes a BIG difference.

[LOL]

again none of this is based on any facts or any links cited to any sources. Just assumption piled on top of assumption from a man with no idea how the world actually is.

"there are a dozen or more permanent working poor or hopelessly poor who are in small part victims of the Blue Socialist Entitlement Spending Disease."

This is actually truer in the red states, and most especially the south-east United States. Red states are the ones who create people stuck in poverty and forever on the dole. One needs look no further than the fact that red states suck up more money from the fed than they pay out. If the country was nothing but a red-state society we'd be in ever bigger debt than we are now.

[seekeronos]

"--- again none of this is based on any facts or any links cited to any sources. ---"

And yet you go on spewing the same old talking points - curiously devoid of supporting data.

Kindly share - and please - not from "Democratic Underground". That is not a credible and unbiased "source".

Because I really don't think that between the NASCAR poor "buckra" and the remaining "Black Belt" of the Deep South... it simply doesn't match the multi-generational abuse of the entitlement programs of Blue centres like NYC, Detroit, DC, and other such places that on their own, would have GINI indices rivaling India or Côte d'Ivoire.

[seekeronos]

PS: I'm going to bed now, so I'll expect those reports in the morning.

Ta-ta for now! :)

[Wahoo Willie Sez:]

"This is actually truer in the red states, and most especially the south-east United States. Red states are the ones who create people stuck in poverty and forever on the dole. One needs look no further than the fact that red states suck up more money from the fed than they pay out."
A little stilted to the typical yankee attitude but partly true. It goes back to "reconstruction" and decades of demonrat control. The central government and it's carpet baggers set the stage to keep the south from re-building after Lincoln's war. Land and businesses were basically stolen and markets shifted to benefit northern interests. Wages were kept low and education was sparse. In short, workers, especially newly freed blacks, were treated worse than we claim illegals are treated today. Industry expanded in the north while the south was forced to remain agrarian. With wages low, federal tax reciepts were also low. The majority of the nation's blacks live in the south and the demonrats, rather than raising their education and access, chose to help them (and the white poor) by handing out checks. The demographic is changing though. Atlanta, a mostly black city, is an example and our forgien allies, looking for cheap labor, are placing more manufacturing jobs here. Of course our northern cousins are sending their manufacturing jobs over seas....again as opposed to helping their own countrymen.

[Fred Beloit]

We had a one-issue election here in Bay County, FL, Tuesday. Shall we continue the temporary (10-year temporary) half-cent sales tax addition for schools. Yes, everyone, all the media included, called it the half-cent tax, only the election ballet showed the truth:"...Half-Cent (1/2 percent) Tax". Big difference. Anyway the voters, I was one, said no by about 200 no votes. There were a lot of reasons to vote no; I won't go into them. But, anyway, they couldn't fool all of the people all of the time.

[Fred Beloit]

Ballet, the dancers? No, ballot, the vote sheet.

[Wahoo Willie Sez:]

"We had a one-issue election here"

Yeah, we had a single issue too. A "land transfer tax" whereby if I sell MY home, I pay an extra tax. We killed that crap 2:1.

[Fred Beloit]

Boo hoo, oh the children, oh the administration conferences in resorts, oh the unnecessary employees, oh the teachers' lounges, oh the outraged unions, oh the field trips to Disney World. Please keep in mind, before you launch your attacks, that I was a teacher once myself in the Chicago public schools.

[Wahoo Willie Sez:]

Fred; Remember when the lottery was going to be the saviour of Florida schools as a supplement? The state stopped using property taxes for schools and used only lottery proceeds......then came power ball.

[dumbblonde]

Yikes, Fred! A teacher in Chicago public schools? As a former resident of that lovely city with the not-so-lovely public school system, you have my respect. That would have been a tough job.

[Fred Beloit]

I was very lucky in my assigned school, blondie. It was really ideal. The kids were mostly great and well brought up. Or was it just the generation? I can't say.

I do remember that Wahoo. I guess others must have remembered it too?

[LOL]

one could, you know, do google searches on your own and find these results. But I suppose that would require a certain level of intellect wingnuts lack.

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http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/opinion/211080_sciglianomoney.html

"There's a general perception out there that the blue states are big net recipients of federal subsidies," says Harvard business professor Herman "Dutch" Leonard. And there's a corollary perception that, in contrast to these welfare-queen states, the inland and Southern states are a heartland of self-reliance and private initiative, less dependent on federal spending. As Leonard says, "That historically hasn't been the case." And it's becoming less and less so.

In 2003, the top subsidy-sucking state, in percentage terms, was red-lite New Mexico, which received $1.99 in federal money for every dollar it sent to Washington, D.C. All the next eight net recipients of federal spending were redder yet: Kentucky, Virginia, Montana, Alabama, North Dakota, West Virginia, Mississippi and Alaska, which received $1.60 to $1.89 back for each tax dollar.

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Republican governments fail

[LOL]

more:

"But you can look at this topsy-turvy lineup another way. Blue-staters earn more on average and pay more in taxes, because they are better educated, more productive, less likely to be retired or disabled and generally healthier; rates of obesity, smoking and alcoholism (not to mention divorce and suicide) all peak in the South or West."

It's really sad what winger governments do to people

[Fred Beloit]

LOL concludes: "Republican governments fail"

This is what is called a non sequitur. This "opinion" piece is from From Feb 2005. It is out of date fore and aft. In other words there is a period of only a few months or so before this when there was such a thing as red and blue states. This designation was made as a result of the election of Nov 2004. In Sept 2004, there was no red state/blue state designation. There was no such designation during Clinton's terms of office. There will probably be no exactly matching designation after the election of Nov 2008.

Basically the work of Herman "Dutch" Leonard (is he also the Harvard football coach?) is just propaganda covering a very small and semi-artificial demographic.

[Fred Beloit]

LOL writes: "It's really sad what winger governments do to people"

What is really sad is that some people read and accept at face value erroneous political propaganda. LOL, get up, go to the bathroom, look in the mirror. I am talking about people like you.

[Wahoo Willie Sez:]

New Mexico,North Dakota,Montana, Alaska= Huge Native American populations on reservations/government dole.
Kentucky, Virginia, Alabama, West Virginia, Mississippi= Very large "traditional" welfare recipient populations. Generally/traditionally represented in congress by democrats. Geeze West Virginia has had the same KKK grand poobah in the senate for 100 years!! Perhaps you might want to cite more than ONE hahvahd professor's opinion.

[Fred Beloit]

Go here to compare 2000 to 2004 red/blue states. They don't exactly match. They won't exactly match after 2008 either.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_states_and_blue_states

[Wahoo Willie Sez:]

For all of their faults, those like LOL one thing remains. Demonrats have been in control of congress for most of the last 145 years. Yet, the same old problems remain. Why have none of them been fixed?

[Fred Beloit]

Florida's election was contested in 2004. Some Leftist extremists still claim Gore won Florida. Is Florida a red or blue state?

[Fred Beloit]

Sorry contested in 2000. That's two screw ups, but who's counting?

[rwilymz]

In case anyone's interested, I found this interesting link:

http://www.vajoe.com/candidate_calculator.html

I should be voting for some yahoo from CO that I've never heard of before.

[Fred Beloit]

Too few questions. What about Supreme Court candidates, just for example?

[Wahoo Willie Sez:]

Me too rw. But that Edwards is anywhere on the list is too ofeensive for me to consider the calculator's effectiveness.

[LOL]

It's funny to watch wingers forced to twist some sort of logic out of why this is happening. While all I have to do is state the facts.

[Fred Beloit]

LOL, please give me this fact. Is New Mexico, in your intellectual concept, counted as red or blue? It was blue in 2000 and red in 2004. Oh, oh. LOL is off to Arianna again for further instructions (HT Temp).

[Wahoo Willie Sez:]

"It's funny to watch wingers forced to twist some sort of logic out of why this is happening. While all I have to do is state the facts."

You're absolutely correct as usual old wise one. Why should anyone concern themselves with why things are the way they are? All we should do is accept th "facts" of "That's just the way it is" Man if I was Bruce Hornsby, I would write a song about this....oh, never mind. It's a good thing there weren't more people who think like you back in the Civil Rights days. I remember hearing that old BS "cuz that's just the way it is boy", why those people had their own "facts" to back up their irrational hatreds too. Good job LOL, I wish we had more geniuses like you.

[rwilymz]

"Is New Mexico, in your intellectual concept, counted as red or blue?"

To a great many products of our public education, it is counted as a foreign country.