Lib Waterboarding Is Faked

Quick update, as some are claiming it's a sponge - that's BS. It's a circular-type shield, probably plastic - watch how and where they pour the water inthe video, being careful to not pour it up over the edge where it would get under it. At one point there are even hands there covering it to prevent that. It's bogus.

Take a look at the screencap below I made from a video from John via the Code Pinko's demonstrations - he asked me what I thought. Look at the left hand, it's holding a shaped object under the towel - a towel that never loses its shape despite being soaking wet. See the top edge by the other hand for proof of that. The video is obviously bogus - check the acting job out in the full video. Moonbats ... geesh.

Comments

[JustADude]

Agreed to the shape of the object under the towel for deflection. Notice when the bottle comes into contact the water flow stops.

Also the towel maintains the shape when set on the ground after the procedure.

[Scraprion]

So the moonbats can't even get a kids game right. You can spend billions of dollars trying to educate the mentally retarded and you'll end up with billions of dollars worth of mental retards. The democrats are proof of that.

[tally]

they wouldn't be very good at frat parties with the ice block shots either.

[Robohobo]

Scraprion - You owe all the mentally challenged folks in the US apologies. Comparing them to Democrats is just WRONG! Most mentally challenged people are MUCH smarter than Democrats.

And I love Ahmed or whatever his name was snurffling about torture. That pansy would wet himself if faced by a big, mean old redneck.

[Yeah,right]

Oh please, you think attacking one video proves water boarding doesn't happen, or that it's not immoral? When is the right going to get their heads of of their arses and realize that when we torture, we just motivate the enemy to feel better about torturing and mistreating our people they hold.

Of course they're evil. But you don't think they couldn't scrape the bottom of the barrel to be even worse?

And then there's the whole thing about how much better we are than them. But from what I'm reading in this echo chamber, I wonder if that's the case here. What ever happened to sophistication? All I see here is blunt instruments rather than finely tuned minds.

[JustADude]

Just cause you chose to call it torture does not make it so. My son says I torture him when I make him go straighten up dresser drawers in his room every couple of months.

Try full body armor in the sandbox in the middle of summer. Hard on the body , yup, torture nope.

[JustADude]

We save the finely tuned minds for worthy opponents...you figure it out.

[Wahoo Willie Sez:]

The Senate's leading expert on water torture says water boarding is immoral and wrong. And TED KENNEDY is a reknowned expert on water torture, preferring to use a Lincoln.

[Terry Gain]

Is that boob under the towel?

[templar knight]

"It's bogus."

Yep, that it is. The old, "fake, but accurate" meme the liberals are so fond of. Most of the rest of us call it lies.

[seekeronos]

"--- And TED KENNEDY is a reknowned expert on water torture, preferring to use a Lincoln. ---"

Heh!

Now that is the truth.

[waka waka]

You people are too much. I can't believe we are actually having to debate whether or not forcibly filling someone's lungs with water is torture. Is pulling out fingernails torture? Heckuva place the GOP has brought this country to. Truly, truly amazing.

[Wahoo Willie Sez:]

"forcibly filling someone's lungs with water is torture."

Fortunately being an idiot isn't painful or our tax dollars would have to go for your pain medicine. Filling someone's lungs with water, forcibly or otherwise, would kill them. Murder is far different than torture. See, when Kennedy murdered that girl she actually suffocated, slowly, while he was trying to find another drink...I mean someone to help cover his ass. That was water torture, being trapped in a sinking car.

[Purple Avenger]

"I can't believe we are actually having to debate whether or not forcibly filling someone's lungs with water is torture."

FYI - no water enters your lungs when waterboarded.

[waka waka]

OF course water is forced into the lungs! By keeping the head lower than the lungs, the sinuses and larynx fill up first. As the victim chokes, their coughing draws the water up into the lungs, giving them the feeling of being drowned without actually suffocating. Sounds like torture to me! If it's so innocuous, why don't you try it? Or are you a bunch of cowards?

[Wahoo Willie Sez:]

"OF course water is forced into the lungs! By keeping the head lower than the lungs, the sinuses and larynx fill up first. As the victim chokes, their coughing draws the water up into the lungs, giving them the feeling of being drowned without actually suffocating. Sounds like torture to me! If it's so innocuous, why don't you try it? Or are you a bunch of cowards?"

Let's consult science on this. You know, the same geniuses that tell us a 1 degree rise in earth temp is going to kill us.

The body's reaction to submersion
Submerging the face in water triggers the mammalian diving reflex. This is found in all mammals, and especially in marine mammals such as whales and seals. This reflex is designed to protect the body by putting it into energy saving mode to maximize the time it can stay under water. The effect of this reflex is greater in cold water than in warm water and has three principal effects

[Wahoo Willie Sez:]

BTW waka: Name calling is always effective.

[Wahoo Willie Sez:]

"Water boarding as it is currently described involves strapping a person to an inclined board, with his feet raised and his head lowered. The interrogators bind the person's arms and legs so he can't move at all, and they cover his face. In some descriptions, the person is gagged, and some sort of cloth covers his nose and mouth; in others, his face is wrapped in cellophane. The interrogator then repeatedly pours water onto the person's face. Depending on the exact setup, the water may or may not actually get into the person's mouth and nose; but the physical experience of being underneath a wave of water seems to be secondary to the psychological experience. The person's mind believes he is drowning, and his gag reflex kicks in as if he were choking on all that water falling on his face."

Hard to "force" water through a gag or celephane and into a person's lungs.

[waka waka]

Don't take my word for it. Let's ask someone who has taught, performed and been subjected to waterboarding, former Naval SERE instructor Malcolm Nance:

"Unless you have been strapped down to the board, have endured the agonizing feeling of the water overpowering your gag reflex, and then feel your throat open and allow pint after pint of water to involuntarily fill your lungs, you will not know the meaning of the word.

Waterboarding is a controlled drowning that, in the American model, occurs under the watch of a doctor, a psychologist, an interrogator and a trained strap-in/strap-out team. It does not simulate drowning, as the lungs are actually filling with water. There is no way to simulate that. The victim is drowning. How much the victim is to drown depends on the desired result (in the form of answers to questions shouted into the victim’s face) and the obstinacy of the subject. A team doctor watches the quantity of water that is ingested and for the physiological signs which show when the drowning effect goes from painful psychological experience, to horrific suffocating punishment to the final death spiral."

http://www.smallwarsjournal.com/blog/2007/10/waterboarding-is-torture-perio/

And before you chickenhawks hop in your swiftboat, read Nance's bio:

"Malcolm W. Nance is a counter-terrorism and terrorism intelligence consultant for the U.S. government’s Special Operations, Homeland Security and Intelligence agencies. A 20-year veteran of the US intelligence community's Combating Terrorism program and a six year veteran of the Global War on Terrorism he has extensive field and combat experience as an field intelligence collections operator, an Arabic speaking interrogator and a master Survival, Evasion, Resistance and Escape (SERE) instructor."

http://smallwarsjournal.com/blog/authors/malcolm-nance/bio/

[Wahoo Willie Sez:]

waka it's simple. If the lungs fill withwater.YOU DIE!!

[waka waka]

"waka it's simple. If the lungs fill withwater.YOU DIE!!"

Ever heard of CPR, you know where the lifeguard pumps the water from your lungs and you start breathing again?

And as usual, another winger gets lost in the weeds and loses the point of the entire debate. The point is, whether or not the lungs take in water -- WHICH THEY DO -- waterboarding is torture.

[Scrapiron]

Evidently they hired they're Phony Soldiers to do the phony waterboarding.

[Scrapiron]

waka waka, where is the proof that waterboarding ever harmed anyone. It is simply a method of bringing out the fear in a terrorists. They aren't as tough as the liberals want them to be, but from the phony demonstrations they are tougher than a liberal. They break in seconds. LIberals are born traitors. As usual you are a liberal without a brain.

[JustADude]

First off Nance was booted in his early service days out of intel gathering sections of the service for "other than performance" issues. Then he got moved to the SERE program after a couple of other what are we gonna do with this idiot stops along the way. And then your new found hero evidently taught the very thing for a number of years he is so revolted by now. I mean like it wasn't there was a door he couldn't leave by when they made him do all those horrid things.

What was the matter, he couldn't go to the papers back then, he shows up now after the dog and pony show of Schumer and Co.

And you tinfoil types are way tooo easy to fish in.

[Wahoo Willie Sez:]

"Ever heard of CPR."

Why yes I have dingus. Wanna know how many times I performed CPR in my 30 plus year career in Fire/EMS. You dont "pump the water out" doing CPR. You can actually push a little out as you do compressions. But once the lungs are "full" there's no point.

Oh and a great big chunk o my career was spent working for DoD. They quit using water boarding fo training SERE right after POWs came back from Vietnam. Not because they were drowning people, but because it fooks with the mind....... That and torture resistance is no longer a big focus of SERE. Guys came back too physically ruined by your Cuban friends so now primary focus is on out smarting them not how much pain you can take.

[Wahoo Willie Sez:]

"First off Nance was booted in his early service days out of intel gathering sections of the service for "other than performance" issues."

Dude: aint it funny how a Lt General is a stone liar...BEFORE he even has a chance to speak, but some washout is ranked up there with Moses coming down the mountain?

[Worst President Ever]

More soldiers for you guys to attack:

Dear Chairman Leahy,

In the course of the Senate Judiciary Committee’s consideration of President Bush’s nominee for the post of Attorney General, there has been much discussion, but little clarity, about the legality of “waterboarding” under United States and international law. We write Because this issue above all demands clarity: Waterboarding is inhumane, it is torture, and it is illegal.

In 2006 the Senate Judiciary Committee held hearings on the authority to prosecute terrorists under the war crimes provisions of Title 18 of the U.S. Code. In connection with those hearings the sitting Judge Advocates General of the military services were asked to submit written responses to a series of questions regarding “the use of a wet towel and dripping water to induce the misperception of drowning (i.e., waterboarding) . . .” Major General Scott Black, U.S. Army Judge Advocate General, Major General Jack Rives, U.S. Air Force Judge Advocate General, Rear Admiral Bruce MacDonald, U.S. Navy Judge Advocate General, and Brigadier Gen. Kevin Sandkuhler, Staff Judge Advocate to the Commandant of the U.S. Marine Corps, unanimously and unambiguously agreed that such conduct is inhumane and illegal and would constitute a violation of international law, to include Common Article 3 of the 1949 Geneva Conventions.

We agree with our active duty colleagues. This is a critically important issue - but it is not, and never has been, a complex issue, and even to suggest otherwise does a terrible disservice to this nation. All U.S. Government agencies and personnel, and not just America’s military forces, must abide by both the spirit and letter of the controlling provisions of international law. Cruelty and torture - no less than wanton killing - is neither justified nor legal in any circumstance. It is essential to be clear, specific and unambiguous about this fact - as in fact we have been throughout America’s history, at least until the last few years. Abu Ghraib and other notorious examples of detainee abuse have been the product, at least in part, of a self-serving and destructive disregard for the well-established legal principles applicable to this issue. This must end.

The Rule of Law is fundamental to our existence as a civilized nation. The Rule of Law is not a goal which we merely aspire to achieve; it is the floor below which we must not sink. For the Rule of Law to function effectively, however, it must provide actual rules yhat can be followed. In this instance, the relevant rule - the law - as long been clear: Waterboarding detainees amounts to illegal torture in all circumstances. To suggest otherwise - or even to give credence to such a suggestion - represents both an affront to the law and to the core values of our nation.

We respectfully urge you to consider these principles in connection with the nomination of Judge Mukasey.

Sincerely,

Rear Admiral Donald J. Guter, United States Navy (Ret.)
Judge Advocate General of the Navy, 2000-02

Rear Admiral John D. Hutson, United States Navy (Ret.)
Judge Advocate General of the Navy, 1997-2000

Major General John L. Fugh, United States Army (Ret.)
Judge Advocate General of the Army, 1991-93

Brigadier General David M. Brahms, United States Marine Corps (Ret.)
Staff Judge Advocate to the Commandant, 1985-88

[Wahoo Willie Sez:]

"More soldiers for you guys to attack:"

WPE, every time we get close to respecting your "feelings" you throw some DA statement like this into the mix. A fifth grader having read the preceding discussion would note that it was way more about the method/result of water boarding, than about the legality, etc. The only "soldier" who was "attacked" obviously, with very little research is FOS. Oh and btw, if you look again at your own post you will see in your own description that the guy is FOS.

Really, it is sooooooo freekin' boring for people like yourself to accuse anyone of "attacking" our soldiers. You write forever but all that appears on our screens is a litany of "wehategeorgebushandblamehimforeverythingsincehewasborn". You can save us from our boredom by shortening your posts to "WPE=BDS" see how short and simple that is.

[Fred Beloit]

waker waker seems to wish to decide this issue by polling. OK, wak, count my vote for continued waterboarding. As someone noted above, no one has ever shown any damage from waterboarding. And of course many in our military have been waterboarded during training. Since torture is against the law and no one has been prosecuted for waterboarding under the UCMJ, one sees the fact that waterboarding is not torture. If Congress wishes to change that, they can outlaw waterboarding any time they see fit. Your side will run around various courts until they find some nitwit Leftist judge to rule waterboarding is torture. But that judge will be overturned at some higher, more competent level. As for you, you are just wasting your time, as usual. waka waka, poor sod self-condemned to argue false propositions.

[Fred Beloit]

"...Your side will run around various courts until they find some nitwit Leftist judge."

I meant to write "Meanwhile your side..."

[seekeronos]

Let's do the calculus:

10 terrorists get waterboarded, we find out about a significant plot and can act to stop it...

--- OR ---

We play nice with the po' little Mo's... and 15,000 people die outright, followed by hundreds of thousands more from a radiological dispersal weapon detonated in a high-density urban area.

Gee, I wonder which causes the greater discomfort?

[Fred Beloit]

seek, why are you always so wrong? You just don't see it. Logic and common sense have nothing to do with this issue. It is all about: do re mi mi mi...Feelings, nothing more than feelings...la, la la.

[scarshapedstar]

"10 terrorists get waterboarded, we find out about a significant plot and can act to stop it...

--- OR ---

We play nice with the po' little Mo's... and 15,000 people die outright, followed by hundreds of thousands more from a radiological dispersal weapon detonated in a high-density urban area.

Gee, I wonder which causes the greater discomfort?"

Uh, what if the terrorist lies? I know, you think the interrogators have a godlike ability to yell "HORSESHIT!" and beat and drown the guy until he tells the truth, instead of telling a lie, but everyone who's actually been involved in these interrogations says you're wrong. Head-up-your-ass wrong. Find me one CIA interrogator who says that torture works.

Torture gets people to say whatever you want to hear so that you stop torturing them. End of story. Or do you really believe that the Spanish Inquisition killed hundreds of thousands of witches and demons?

[templar knight]

OT, but funny as hell. Rep. David Obey, DEMOCRAT, one of Wisconsin's finest, declares that there is less violence in Iraq because insurgents have run out of people to kill. In a country that has a population of between 25-30 million people. And this guy is in Congress. Is there a recall law in Wisconsin? Well, if not, there needs to be. What an idiot!

[Wahoo Willie Sez:]

"Torture gets people to say whatever you want to hear so that you stop torturing them."

An absolute genius!!! Precisely why we teach our troops to go no farther than they can stand. Many of his peers think McCain could've taken a little more. Be that as it may, you're mostly correct, your teachers must think you're brilliant. Actually, the CIA spends lots of time making friends with these people, gimme a new Koran and I'll talk. However, let's assume that you've heard a rumor that someone is carrying a back pack full of C-4 to your child's elementary school. Are you willing to wait while your six year old is learning about Alice's two mommies to make friends? In lieu of coercion, what is your suggestion?
Sorry, questions I know trhe answer to.............

[Fred Beloit]

Gee, scar, this is a very fair offer on your part: "Find me one CIA interrogator who says that torture works."

Unfortunately, I don't know where they hang out nor how to recognize them when I see them. Also, one would think they would be under cover to some degree. That would mean I would have to waterboard them to get them to admit they were CIA interrogators, and if they did admit it under waterboarding you would claim they were lying because everybody lies under waterboarding.

Sending me on a fool's errand, you sly rogue. Or are you just an A--h---?

[Worst President Ever]

"find some nitwit Leftist judge to rule waterboarding is torture."

BS. There are plenty of conservatives that believe it's torture. Ask John McCain, who knows a bit about the subject.

"Waterboarding is a form of torture no matter how it is done and should be a prohibited among U.S. military interrogation practices, Republican presidential candidate John McCain said today, taking issue with GOP rival Rudy Giuliani’s recent remarks.

“Anyone who knows what waterboarding is could not be unsure. It is a horrible torture technique used by Pol Pot and being used on Buddhist monks as we speak,” said McCain after a campaign stop at Dordt College here."

[Wahoo Willie Sez:]

"prohibited among U.S. military interrogation practices."

It is. Someone does it for them.

[Worst President Ever]

So we're against it when we do it but for it when someone does it for us. Makes ya proud, don't it?

[Fred Beloit]

Well, Worst, McCain can vote for that law I mentioned, but that is all he can do. A judge, a misguided judge, could rule waterboarding is torture.

The likelihood that Congress will pass a specific anti-waterboarding law is small, because this issue has been kicking around for a long time now and Congress has done nothing about it, and for a very good reason. It seems most of the Republicans and Democratics would not want to be responsible for a law that bans an action that has never seriously nor permanently harmed any body but that could potentially lead to preventing the destruction of Americans and their property.

You must be going to vote for McCain in the presidential election, since he seems to be your expert of choice. His position on this issue sounds like Kennedy's, just one more reason my party doesn't seem keen on selecting McCain as its candidate.

One more thing, if memory serves, McCain has also stated that even if it were outlawed a President might still waterboard a person if it could prevent a devastating attack. America and the law would forgive such an action. How's that for double talk?

[Fred Beloit]

"“Anyone who knows what waterboarding is could not be unsure. It is a horrible torture technique used by Pol Pot and being used on Buddhist monks as we speak,” said McCain after a campaign stop at Dordt College here."

Wonder why Pol Pot and the Myanmyshadow folks are using it against monks? scar says EVERBODY knows it doesn't work.

[Wahoo Willie Sez:]

"So we're against it when we do it."

Who the hell is "we" kimosabe?

[Worst President Ever]

Since it's our military, and since someone's, somewhere is, in your words, torturing "for them", it would be us. W

**********
Fred uses Pol Pot as an argument to support US torture. Kindof boggles the mind.

[Wahoo Willie Sez:]

So answer just one question. I'll give you time to run to the prof's office and ask. Come on, just this one: What do you suggest we do?

[Worst President Ever]

About what?

[Wahoo Willie Sez:]

"About what?"

Cute

What is your alternative to coercion?

[Worst President Ever]

If by coercion, you mean torture, then the alternative is the same one the US practiced for years: scientific interrogation techniques. People that do it for a living say you get better and more reliable information using a variety of techniques other than torture.

[waka waka]

Worst, your wasting your breath. THe only way these fascists will admit waterboarding is torture is when President Hillary starts authorizing it.

http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/columns/shoptalk_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003670200

[Wahoo Willie Sez:]

WPE; waka is putting me to sleep as usual. Keep me interested by defining "scientific" interogation.

[seekeronos]

"--- Or do you really believe that the Spanish Inquisition killed hundreds of thousands of witches and demons? ---"

The Spanish Inquisition killed all sorts of people. And there were probably more than just a handful of witches that got it in the neck. Perhaps some demoniacs (demon-possessed or influenced people) were killed, too.

But I can ensure you that absolutely no demons were harmed in the making of the Spanish Inquisition.

Being that they are immortal spirit beings (technically, fallen angels)... they cannot be killed.

Coming back to this discussion... the difference between the way our contracted waterboarders seem to do things (per the picture) results in the non-drownings of the person subjected to the waterboarding. Not a pleasant experience by any means - nor is it intended to be.

But as for Pol Pot and his minions... there is no readily available information as to whether or not he used humane and safe practices with his interrogation (and specifically with his regime's waterboarding). Going off of evidence from other facets of his regime, I'd say more than likely, his waterboarders probably killed more victims than not.

As for scientific methods of interrogation we still do that. Waterboarding just happens to be one of many tools in a suite of solutions available to our intelligence gathering providers.