When Left Meets Right

It's said that if you go far enough out on the fringes, the Left and the Right actually meet. That would appear to be proved true given this meeting between uber-liberals and whatever the other bunch actually is. Let's hope we don't have a civil war, we wouldn't want to bring our troops home from Iraq just to plop them down into the middle of one of those.

CHATTANOOGA, Tenn. - In an unlikely marriage of desire to secede from the United States, two advocacy groups from opposite political traditions — New England and the South — are sitting down to talk.

Tired of foreign wars and what they consider right-wing courts, the Middlebury Institute wants liberal states like Vermont to be able to secede peacefully.

That sounds just fine to the League of the South, a conservative group that refuses to give up on Southern independence.

"We believe that an independent South, or Hawaii, Alaska, or Vermont would be better able to serve the interest of everybody, regardless of race or ethnicity," said Michael Hill of Killen, Ala., president of the League of the South.

Comments

[jj]

Well, if you remember your history, you will note that New England contemplated succession 20 or so years prior to the Southern attempt. And, to be honest, it seems to me that there is a chasm between the Red and Blue states that might be too large to bridge.

All that aside, what I really like about the idea is knowing I wouldn't be living in the same country as BoobinBridgeport/chris/HairyBob.

[Techie]

Both of the two groups membership totals in ~1 - 3,000 combined.

[Wahoo Willie Sez]

YES!! wonderful idea, let 'em go and hopefully the south will deny visas!

[seekeronos]

I think the demise of the USA as a unitary nation is in the cards. It is not likely in the immediate future, which is to say, in my lifetime, barring the immediate and painful arrival of a global energy shortage i.e. the downward slope of the "Peak Oil" Hubbert curve back to pre-industrial standards of living and energy consumption.

In the longer run, say, the next century or so, I see the USA (and possibly Canada, too) breaking up along these lines:

(1) Atlantic Northeast (NYC + New England states, and possibly the Atlantic Canadian provinces of Prince Edward Isl., Newfoundland, and Labrador, if Canada falls apart)

(2) Quebec (if Canada falls apart)

(3) Mid-Atlantic States (non-NYC New York, PA, DE and maybe Maryland)

(4) The Old South (although black-white racial tensions might lead to that splitting up further)

(5) The Republic of Texas and Oklahoma (assuming that isn't ceded back to Mexico, or turned into an Aztlan state)

(6) Aztlan States (AZ, NM, CO, NV, and bits of UT)

(7) The Republic of California (strong enough in its own right to remain the world's 10 largest economy, assuming it isn't caught in a war for survival with Aztlan)

(8) Cascadia (OR, WA, maybe a few northern CA counties, and the southern portion of British Columbia, if Canada falls apart. Über liberal socialist state.)

(9) "Stormfront Land" (or whatever the white nationalists name their collection of likely states: eastern counties of OR and WA, ID, MT, and maybe portions of the Dakotas)

(10) Islamic Republic of al-Amriki (most of MN, WI, IL, IN, OH, MI) ... which will be a very ugly place to be when the local Muzzies really get their jihad on. Capital city: Detroit or al-Dearborn)

(11) The Heartland (the rest of fly-over country that the other parties can't be too bothered to fight over on account of all the rednecks with heavy firepower, which may or may not include the remains of the Federal Army)

(12) Canada might break up as well, with the Inuit/Eskimo territories carrying on as they did before the Brits and French and Vikings ever set foot on the land, and Quebec, BC, AB, and maybe SK going their respective ways, leaving behind the centre at Ontario to go on somehow. AB (Alberta) is like the Texas of Canada, remarkably far more conservative than the average Canuck.

[Wahoo Willie Sez]

"(4) The Old South (although black-white racial tensions might lead to that splitting up further)"

Except for a few enclaves in the deep south, like Jena, La this is not near the problem the media would have you believe. Not saying it doesn't exist at all but it's no worse than the north.

[chris]

"All that aside, what I really like about the idea is knowing I wouldn't be living in the same country as BoobinBridgeport/chris/HairyBob."

It might be hard getting through customs each week while going to see Parker for visiting hours.

[rwilymz]

"I think the demise of the USA as a unitary nation is in the cards"

Grasping federal power-mongers [of both parties, differing rationale] creating tugs-of-war by which personalized, which is to say localized and responsive, government is lost ...

...been seeing this for 20 years.

In many ways, the days of the Superpower are over. Balkanism is coming into vogue.

[K]

I concur. The US will start to break up. And why not? Those behind it have various motives but a big one is simply disgust with Washington.

The steady increase of federal power for almost a century has left state and local government with form but not function.Many feel it is impossible to reduce the federal role by political means. There is evidence to support that; time and again people promise clean and effective government, get elected, and practice just the opposite.

Some people thus reason that it is better to shift power back closer to home and that only way to do that is to secede. Whether one agrees or not the reasoning is not outrageous.

[Lord Nazh©]

I have spoken to Mr. Hill before... didn't know he was head of that group :) (I live close by)

What's the deal with the entire (non-south) country thinking that the south is still quartered along racial lines? Do you guys even visit here?

[Wahoo Willie Sez]

LN: They know what they know from movies and the media. They think Mayberry is a real place and the dukes are real people.

[BobInStamford]

I wish you patriots well in your efforts to secede and create the Republic of Redneckistan. Ah yes, Redneckistan. Where the state flags are nascar flags. Where the earth is only 6,000 years old. Where there is victory in Iraq. Where the WMDs have been found. Where the homes have wheels - just in case.

Godspeed patriots!

[seekeronos]

"--- What's the deal with the entire (non-south) country thinking that the south is still quartered along racial lines? Do you guys even visit here? ---"

For LN: As an "Army brat" and having lived the first few grade-school years of my life in Alabama - I had the pleasure of experiencing what it is like to be a minority (one of two white kids in an all-black elementary school).

That being a number of decades ago, it may not reflect the current situation (although my presence there dated after the Great Migration of many blacks out of the Deep South in the 1940s-1950s)

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Migration_(African_American)

I don't necessarily say that it will be, however, in light of a massive social upheaval, race considerations go up a few notches. People (black and white and otherwise) will generally want to be with others of the same tribe and yes, unfortunately, skin colour.

In times of chaos, nobler notions of the brotherhood of mankind take a back seat.

Notwithstanding the massive migration of blacks to the (former) industrial states, i.e. the Rust Belt and the ghettoes of the Atlantic seaboard was a key toward reversing a longstanding demographic trend of the South to be divided neatly into numerous black communities (the so-called "Black Belt")... there are still significant pockets of blacks (Atlanta, certain parts of SC and NC, to name a few) which could quickly devolve into racialized nation-states, especially when the post-Hubbert peak resources wars hit hard at home.

This is not to say that the Northeast won't have its issues - much of the greater megalopolis spanning from DC to Boston (BosWash corridor) will be also wrecked with racial strife... in fact, with a greater population density, the ongoing waves of population reductions and ethnic cleansing perhaps far exceeding that of what one might expect in other North American regions.

So, my apologies for not having considered that in my original statement of how I think the American Balkanization might play out.

[Tom Shefchik]

Since the decline of our nation's moral standing and prestige began with Reagan, continued with Bush I, leveling off slightly during Clinton I, then nose-diving to the fascism we have today I have jsut as steadily lost the pride and confidence I used to feel for the USA.

Until The Bush Crime Family is imprisoned there is not much hope, and because of our war profiteers, chickenhawks, and the Israel lobby the odds are one in a million. So yes, it looks like our country is doomed.

I'm not anti-America. I mourn for the loss of all we had because of the actions of Bush, Cheney, Murdoch, Sun Yung Moon, Coulter, Limbaugh, Perle, Wolfowicz, Chertoff, etc.

I'm not a defeatist. Bush has not even been impeached, so I am a realist. The Republicans have destroyed our nation. They may not end up in the Hague, but if there were justice they will all burn in hell.

[rwilymz]

"...create the Republic of Redneckistan"

Please. "Redneckia".

That is only one of the agitated-for neo-republics, bucko. The other is Limosine Liberalopolis, it would seem. ... where the head potentate is called Chauffeur in Chief, and lesser executives are "cabbies".

A political aspirant might be a "leadfoot", and his bandwagon supporters would be riding his "jitney".

Oh, what a wonderful occurence for the makers of puns should this transpire!

[Robert]

The revolution IS coming.

Relax, it will take another 10-15 years for enough Americans to figure out they are being ruled by corporate interests.

In the meantime, I suggest we replace "In God We Trust" with something more apt for the American people. "Slow on the uptake", perhaps.

[iaintbacchus]

Seerer, I think you're wrong about the left coast. I think you'd see an new Pacifica, including Washington, Oregon, California, Hawii(maybe), most of BC, and parts of Arizona. Eastern Oregon and Washington will not split off into WhiteChristianistan with Utah and Idaho, et.al. because the farmers and ranchers in those places need the markets on the coast and the only cheap way to get their goods out is the Columbia river.
Pacifica will be the place to be because we will no longer, as a region, pay the bulk of the federal taxes and recieve the least return on our investment. We're already where the bulk of social, industrial and technological innovation comes from and we already have trade ties with the whole rest of the pacific rim. And even in the face of peak oil, or more likely because of it, ocean surface shipping will stay relatively profitable. Trade by surface shipping will hold the northern states together with California, the parts of it that don't become NuevoMexico. And the North Pacific coast is predicted to be a big winner in the Global Warming lottery.
Theupper east coast well and the middle Atlantic states will do very well with the big brain trust in Raliagh/Durham and plenty of deep water shipping. The rest of you uneducated, antisocial, christofacist, fundimentalist clowns will just have to live in the hell you'll undoubtedly create for yourselves. Things will get ugly in the New American Dessert. Or should I say Desseret?
Or, alternatly, we could all remember that we're Americans first and Whites, Blacks, Latinos, Christians, Jews, Muslims, Athiests, ect. second and get busy fixing this mess that the Republican party has made of this country and the world over the last 27 years and everybody can prosper. It's all the same to me. I already live in Pacifica.

[seekeronos]

I think "Cascadia" is the working name of choice for the Pacific NW + big chunks of BC. There have been a number of groups agitating for separation from Canada/USA for a few decades now.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cascadia_%28independence_movement%29

Most of that prospective population is leftist, but the border areas and the Columbia R. access to the "Rocky Mountain Christian Republic" (sic) might be enough for some deals to be cut, possibly in trade for farm goods/meats and tariffs, and the like, unless civil unrest leads to an ugly and massive displacement or cleansing of one side by the other.

[rwilymz]

"Or, alternatly, we could all remember that we're Americans first and Whites, Blacks, Latinos, Christians, Jews, Muslims, Athiests, ect. second and get busy fixing this mess that the Republican party has made..."

Oh! So close!!

Hoisted on his own petard.

Chalk up another "we all have a responsibility to blame just part of us".

[Carl Gordon]

Very nice. It seems you're concerned not only about the moral state of the country, but also about what's been coming out of Bush's ass lately. I mean, they edited it for MSM consumption, but you says it started with turds that were in the shape of #2 yellow Ticonderoga pencils, then spinning tops, now you say they look like small forest creatures, characters from Tolkien tales and astral projections of alien beings hoping to beam you up to the mother ship in time for the Rapture. What do you think? We’ve got a lot of time on our hands (idle hands, the devils work, and such) before we throw the whole lot of lollygaggers out. What shall we do, what shall we do? Lot's o' questions, no possible answer. Some say drugs is the answer. That's too simple. Tried it, been there, done that, too much of a hassle, and what about those running sores? All those running sores. Personally, I'm thinking maybe coffee enemas or I'll get a paper route.

Seeking guidance on the big questions in life,

My friends, this whole process is going to be a piece of cake with carpet tacks substituted for raisins. And the reason for my hubbub, bubs? Two hours sleep the previous night, courtesy of some lame pudenda ramming my poor truck’s funky butt almost nigh 3 ½ years hence. Yea, I heard the cock crow, the mermaid sing, and the fat man chuckle as he set off on yet another adventure in search of the fabled black bird. The stuff dreams are made of? Or take your dreams and get stuffed? I guess it’s just as confusing on the other side of the eight ball as well. I suppose Mr. Hawking never took my lie dream of the casino soul scene seriously, so I’m left right were I started, searching for that singularity. Save your pennies for your eyes and eye/wheel hit this subject betwixt the nose, nostrils held thusly! Send lawyers, guns, and money!

No apparent purpose.

[rwilymz]

"No apparent purpose."

By george, I think he's got it!

[Robert]

rwilymz,

As opposed to our current group of conservatives, who only believe the poor and powerless should be held accountable for their actions.

[iaintbacchus]

Wrong, rwily. It is the Republicans that have used divisionary tactics to get control. And it is they who have quadrilped the national debt over the last three decades all the while whining about needing to trim "big government" down to size. It is the Republicans who have gotten us into this mess in Iraq while ingnoring the very real threat of Al Quaida and letting Afghanistan and Pakistahn mostly to their own devices. It is the Republicans that have consistantly urged the Christian majority, and to a lesser extent the Jewish minority, to vote for their religious convictions and interests over the interests of the country at large. Hence our middle eastern policy, which is systematically making enemies of every country except Isreal. And this while all the while whining about how they were being victimized and forced out of the public discourse by the "secular humanists".
Maybe you're not, but I'm old enough to remember the the beginning of the "southern strategy" that the Republicans started practicing immedeately after Lyndon Johnson signed the Civil rights act and are still practicing today. But since it's no longer fashionable to pass laws against blacks, now they've turned against gays and immigrants. And they're not even cosistant about immigrants since they don't seem to care about Irish, Australilan or French illegals (there are over a million in the US) but are up in arms about Mexicans, Arabs and other people of color.
You're damn right I'm blaming some of us. I'm blaming those who have for 30 years been the cause of a rapidly escalating problem. I'm praying that the Dems will finally grow the balls to deal with the problem and I blame them for being weak and not sticking their own principles, but there is no doubt who is the cause of the mess were in today nor why.

[rwilymz]

"As opposed to our current group of conservatives, who only believe the poor and powerless should be held accountable for their actions."

You're kidding, right? Someone's being "held accountable" for something in this country? Name him. No matter who you name, someone is trying to rationalize him. To the degree that this "accountability/rationalization" cycle is political, it is equally applied by both "sides".

"Wrong, rwily"

Except that you're incorrect, you're absolutely spot-on.

"It is the Republicans that have used divisionary tactics to get control."

Then Republicans must be ubiquitous and eternal, because the politics of division and diversion long predate anything modern. Hell, the Republicans must be the master of all conspiratorialists, since the lion's share of what we see today as your "diversionary tactics" were nominally proposed, legislated and regulated by Democrats and the "civil rights era" courts that the Democrats fleshed out.

But my, my, my, my, *my*, if your response wasn't the expurgation of flailing knee-jerk denunciation. A veritable potpourri of "I know you are but what am I".

Debt to war to religion to race to immigration to political chicanery to homophobia to hypocrisy. All in the space of 12 sentences. The literary equivalent of a grand mal seizure.

"they ...have quadrilped the national debt over the last three decades all the while whining about needing to trim "big government" down to size."

And the Republicans are different from Democrats ... how? Both parties wish the government to do those things they wish government to do, and they're both willing to hijack the budget for those purposes. We had 60 years of Democrats' debt that 4 or 5 of Republican debt is trivial. They are willing at this point to hijack the budget to undertake health care -- even for those who have it.

"It is the Republicans who have gotten us into this mess in Iraq..."

Bush the Elder? with his Democratic Congress? using our "peace dividend" to sign up for open-ended babysitting of Iraq with a fixed force-size -- all while drawing down US military strength everywhere else? That was how we "got into the mess in Iraq". What started as a small share of our strength devoted to "containment" swelled, through RIF, to a double-digit portion of our military sitting in the sands of Saudi and Kuwait with their thumbs up their asses.

"while ingnoring the very real threat of Al Quaida and letting Afghanistan and Pakistahn mostly to their own devices"

We are still in A'stan; P'stan won't let us in. Nothing has changed there since late '01. Simply because you aren't seeing daily doses in your paper does not mean we aren't involved.

"It is the Republicans that have consistantly urged the Christian majority, and to a lesser extent the Jewish minority, to vote for their religious convictions and interests over the interests of the country at large."

And Democrats use religion as well, when it's convenient. There have been more ostensibly religious Democrats running for prez in the last two decades than there have been Repubicans. The Reverends Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton aren't Religious In Name Only -- or maybe they are, since there's little of the christian faith observable in their political posturings.

And besides, who do you think you are to define what the interests of the "country at large" happen to be? Are you "the country at large"? Or are you just a large-mouth blowhard wishing to dictate your desires as magnanimous while the desires you disagree with are deemed selfish and reprehensible?

"And this while all the while whining about how they were being victimized and forced out of the public discourse by the "secular humanists"."

I haven't seen "conservatives" railing against secular humanists for about 20 years. They stopped about the time I stopped railing at "conservatives".

Not a coincidence.

"I'm old enough to remember the the beginning of the "southern strategy""

I'm not surprised. And like many of those who grew up traumatized by certain events, you are reliving them and imputing current realities to old motivations using the landscape of your youth as definitive ad infinitum.

Case in point:
"still practicing today"
"they've turned against gays and immigrants"

Name one aspect of "anti-gay" legislation that is not mirrored by Democrats.

You can't. Republicans don't want gays to be able to get married; neither do Democrats. Dispute me? Find me one Democratic-controlled state legislature which has passed a gay marriage law.

Ain't one.

"But...but...but... there are 'civil union' laws...."

Here's the deal, kiddo: a civil union which mealy-mouthes its way past the issue is just that: a mealy-mouthed manner of sidestepping the controversy and placating the easily-fooled fools who follow the Democratic party around on their knees ready to osculate whichever appendage is provided them [simile selected to keep with the theme...].

NO ONE is "turning against immigrants" because there aren't more than two legislators in twenty who have the balls to take a stand, Democrat OR Republican.

"You're damn right I'm blaming some of us."

I'd suggest you start with the mirror, son. You have a desperate, clawing need for a boogey-man, some nameless, faceless "other" that you can reach out and blame, the target for all pointed fingers. You are no different from the masses of "conservative" blowhards who offer little but the reverse caterwaulery.

"I'm blaming those who have for 30 years been the cause of a rapidly escalating problem."

...which is, as I said, all of us.

"I'm praying ..."

To whom? Wouldn't that constitute voting along religious convictions? [The answer is yes, it would]. And doesn't that make you exactly the problem you are pointing at others to assign blame? [The answer is yes, it does]. And doesn't that mean exactly what I said originally, and to which you farted out "Wrong!" was, in fact, absolutely correct? We are ALL to blame? [The answer is yes, it does].

Take your self-righteous twaddle, your infantile hero-worship, your self-delusional hypocrisy, and blow it out your ass.