This Really Is About Saving America

No one wants any young person to go without health care. But with more information about the now infamous Frosts coming out, including ownership of three vehicles, including a new Volvo SUV - people need to strip away the emotional arguments and think of the practical consequences of expanding government programs over and above what they were originally intended.

It isn't the rich who are going to end up supporting expanded entitlements. Plenty of decent hard working people, with children, people who certainly don't have enough free cash to go out and buy a Volvo SUV right now are going to be forced to give up hard-earned dollars to subsidize poor decision-making by other Americans who, in cases like the Frosts, have more assets and had more potential advantages than they ever had.

For some reason, it appears Halsey Frost either can't hold a job, or has chosen to pursue an un-rewarding career path, as opposed to taking one of the many jobs available in Baltimore over the years that would have made him as much money and provided health care for his family. And he made that decision long before his children were tragically injured in a car accident.

Bonnie works half time doing freelance editorial work and Halsey, an incredibly disorganized lovable goofball, just can’t seem to hold down a proper job or, when he’s tried, to run a proper company.

Yes, the Frosts find themselves in a tragic situation. And nothing being considered, or proposed, is intended to take anything away from that they currently have, courtesy of taxpayers. But expanding entitlements that support poor choices, or an unwillingness to make sacrifices and doing it by taking money away from hard working middle class Americans, is not good for America. It only serves to reward bad decision-making, or lack of sacrifice, and gives everyone a reason to try just a little bit less.

Continuing down that pathway will not give our children the America we want to leave them with. And it will provide them no incentive to make it just a little bit better, even if they could.

Comments

[Other Ed]

Since she's claiming to be one, would you say it's really journalistically honest of Michelle Malkin to post brand-new showroom pictures of these vehicles?

You know, she's an ethical journalist that uses an anonymous email source but then, according to that very same anonymous email Michelle is citing, misrepresents that at least two of them are NOT new vehicles?

What a load of phony right-wing propaganda. If you really think that people must be destitute and homeless in order to get assistance, say it. Stop trying to smear a family that legally qualified for the program by lying about them.

[Wahoo Willie Sez]

"If you really think that people must be destitute and homeless in order to get assistance, say it."

Only if they're registered republicans

[dumbblonde]

Our slide into socialism seems almost unstoppable.

To paraphase the old fable: How do you get wild pigs/horses/whatever to willing give up their freedom? Offer free food. They won't even notice the fences being built around them. Or care.

[waka waka]

EJ Dionne pretty much nails you snakes in today's WaPo:

"The left is accused of all manner of sins related to covetousness and envy whenever it raises questions about who benefits from Bush's tax cuts and mentions the yachts such folks might buy or the mansions they might own. But here is a family with modest possessions doing everything conservatives tell people they should do, and the right trashes them for getting help to buy health insurance for their children.

Most conservatives favor government-supported vouchers that would help Graeme attend his private school, but here they turn around and criticize him for . . . attending a private school. Federal money for private schools but not for health insurance? What's the logic here?

Conservatives endlessly praise risk-taking by entrepreneurs and would give big tax cuts to those who are most successful. But if a small-business person is struggling, he shouldn't even think about applying for SCHIP.

Conservatives who want to repeal the estate tax on large fortunes have cited stories -- most of them don't check out -- about farmers having to sell their farms to pay inheritance taxes. But the implication of these attacks on the Frosts is that they are expected to sell their investment property to pay for health care. Why?

Oh, yes, and conservatives tell us how much they love homeownership, and then assail the Frosts for having the nerve to own a home. I suppose they should have to sell that, too."

[IslamoLlama]

And the hits keep on coming.

Did the Catholics tell you they totally disagree with you, Dan? Cause conservative pro-life Catholics totally disagree with you.

http://www.catholics-united.org/schip-ads

Sorry, please continue your Frost-bashing unimpeded.

[Wahoo Willie Sez]

Oh my, even every Catholic in America thinks the rich should get free/subsidized health care.

[Wahoo Willie Sez]

Why can't you hypocrits, just once, come right on out and say what you really mean? Name your real agenda? Come on, what are you afraid of.

[curvedbrain]

"Conservatives who want to repeal the estate tax on large fortunes have cited stories -- most of them don't check out -- about farmers having to sell their farms to pay inheritance taxes. But the implication of these attacks on the Frosts is that they are expected to sell their investment property to pay for health care. Why? "

I don't get the comparison between the Death tax and the suggestion that we use assest-test govt. benefit programs. Waka waka seems to believe there is a profound observation there which "nails" the wingnut snakes. Maybe if I swallowed the bong water I could "see" it too

[DADvocate]

would you say it's really journalistically honest of Michelle Malkin to post brand-new showroom pictures of these vehicles?

She states they are showroom pictures, i.e. full disclosure. Of course, Other Ed, if she had pix of the Frosts' actual vehicles, you'd be accusing her of stalking.

legally qualified for the program by lying about them

As my attorney sister, a Democrat, frequently points out - just because something is legal doesn't make it morally correct or ethical. What are the lies?

I have 4 kids, one is grown and independent. My income is in the same range of the Frosts and my assets are most likely significantly less. I couldn't afford those three vehicles, new or used. I drive a 1998 Toyota Camry with 227,000 miles on it. I'm not complaining mind you. I choose to spend more money providing for my kids including health insurance, braces for their teeth and such.

When I was raised I was taught that providing for oneself and one's family was a matter of personal pride and that wasting one's talents by not using them productively was shameful. Sounds old fashion and I guess it is. I just find it sickening that parents of greater means than myself expect me and others like me to make up for their poor planning, lack of motivation and under acheivement.

[BobInStamford]

Wow, what a mean personal attack. Funny how it comes from a 50 year old guy who can't hold down a job himself. When does your COBRA run out, patriot??

[dumbblonde]

"When I was raised I was taught that providing for oneself and one's family was a matter of personal pride and that wasting one's talents by not using them productively was shameful."

Thanks, DAD. I couldn't have said it better myself. I was taught those same values, and I have done my best to pass those values on to my own children.

Sadly, a large segment of the population seems to vehemently disagree with us.

[Fred Beloit]

Funny the Boob's favorite attack comes from a 12-year old too young to know anything about politics except what his liberal daddy tells him. Wonder which Dem flack wrote the kid's speech for him?

[mgk]

How dare you vile conservatives smear this family!

Imagine, accusing someone of being middle-class!

[Wahoo Willie Sez]

"Imagine, accusing someone of being middle-class!"

A family of six, supposedly living on 45k a year, 10k below average....is not middle class. They're poor. Of course, they're lying about thier income.

[Wahoo Willie Sez]

S-CHIP was passed by (those evil) Republicans in 1997 and signed into law by Bill Clinton -- which was to take care of children from poor families that did not qualify for Medicaid, but still needed some help in being covered for insurance.

That's what the S-CHIP program has been. Unfortunately, over the last several years, states have increased the number of people that get the insurance that are well above 200 percent of the poverty level, which is the line that they're supposed to be at. And this program, in fact, eliminates the requirement that 95 percent of the funds go to children who are eligible at 200 percent of poverty level. We'd like to see the neediest children taken care of first, and that's where the policy difference is.

[IslamoLlama]

"A family of six, supposedly living on 45k a year, 10k below average....is not middle class. They're poor. Of course, they're lying about thier income."

That's not what Malkin said. She said the father had rich parents, the house was $400k easy, and all equity. The counter tops were granite. And the kids were receiving a $20k education EACH. This family was worth into the millions, no doubt. Of course, Malkin pointed all this out as a compliment. She certainly never called the father insulting names. And she wasn't hiding in their bushes peaking through their windows. She just really needed to pee and they wouldn't let her in to use their gold-plated toilets.

Why do you hate Americans, WWS?

[Wahoo Willie Sez]

"Why do you hate Americans, WWS?"

Not all of them, just those like yourself who PRETEND to give a crap about the poor, the sick and other "victims" only so long as it serves your purpose. If you checked Frosts voting record and learned that he, or his father were from another party. YOU would PAY for the rope to hang them all. Why? Because your whole sick agenda has nothing to do with helping or healing anyone. You dont care about those kids and you CERTAINLY do not give a sh** about the real poor in this country (or anywhere else) If any of you actually DID give a sh** you too would be angry that this guy, who very obviously is milking YOUR tax dollars and cheating YOU is some sort of hero.

[curvedbrain]

"That's not what Malkin said. She said the father had rich parents, the house was $400k easy, and all equity"

Cite for us where she said that. Show us the link. Certainly a noble liberal like you would never make up a lie like that on purpose.. right?

[IslamoLlama]

"If you checked Frosts voting record and learned that he, or his father were from another party. YOU would PAY for the rope to hang them all. Why? Because your whole sick agenda has nothing to do with helping or healing anyone. You dont care about those kids and you CERTAINLY do not give a sh** about the real poor in this country (or anywhere else) If any of you actually DID give a sh** you too would be angry that this guy, who very obviously is milking YOUR tax dollars and cheating YOU is some sort of hero."

And she was blinded by the right. cut loose like a deuce
Another runner in the night. blinded by the right
She got down but she never got tight, but she'll make it alright

No, seriously man. You need to wake up. It's sad to see you frothing over with rage over this, when you're getting raped by Bush's 1% tax cuts and massive war debts. Like you pointed out, SCHIP was a Republican response to Hillary-care. What's more, Republicans have supported it in records numbers. Orrin Hatch voted for it, for Christ's sake. You're dickering over the dozen or so House hold outs that could sustain a veto. This isn't a fight over passing the bill, this is a fight over passing the bill against a veto and its a fight that's already been won in the Senate.

The fact is, the only reason this bill has garnered any dissatisfaction from the far right is BECAUSE Bush vetoed it. And, therefore, you guys have got to fight tooth and nail to see that veto sustained. Otherwise, we'd never have heard two words about the Frosts.

The fight is laughable because you've already lost it. This is just a question of how much you want to bleed out politically over what should have been a no-brainer bill.

Terri Shavio all over again.

[Wahoo Willie Sez]

Not surprisingly, you could not refute my points.

[Wahoo Willie Sez]

How ever, you did reassert that this is all about your hatred of Bush and your assumption that anyone who disagrees on a single point, disgrees with the whole because it's only black or white, yes?

[Wahoo Willie Sez]

Come on Llama, you can give me this one can't you? Come now it'll only hurt a little tiny bit. Repeat after me (and you dont even have to mean it) "I DO care about the real poor and it is a travesty for someone to lie in order to get over them." Come on, you dont have to mean it, just let me see it.

[templar knight]

IslamoBoob, you better exit this thread quick, cause WWS has cleaned your clock, and you look like a little, uneducated fool, which is just about right, I imagine. I haven't laughed like this in a while. Thanks, Willie.

[Wahoo Willie Sez]

tk: It's just annoying, these self rightgeous assholes. Why can't they just admit that they lay awake at night dreaming of ways to hate Bush and nothing else ever enters thier minds? I know poor folks, some right down the road from me and no one who actually knows poor people wants them to be without health care or anything else. Had they brought out an actual, even low income, kid none of this debate would have occured. Damn near fifty years after Johnson's "Great Society" and even longer since Roosevelt there should be no poor.

[Democrat]

What's hilarious is that "citizen journalists" think that a creepy e-mail from somebody claiming to be the Frosts' neighbor is evidence of something. Farewell, MSM, we have serious "new media" people like Dan and Malkin on the job now.

And, Dan, you shouldn't be so catty about Gore's Nobel Prize. After all, somebody could look in your archives for those dumb posts you wrote crowing about Rush Limbaugh's bogus nomination for the prize.

[IslamoLlama]

It's not a Dem vs Rep issue, WWS. It's a country vs The President issue. The country wants SCHIP and Bush doesn't.

So, if you want to play the BSD card, go right ahead. In this case, much as in Iraq and Stem Cell Research and Terri Shavio and Wiretapping and countless other issues, Bush is obstructing the will of the people. I'm confused as to why you can't understand how that would make Americans not like him. You certainly have no problem vilifying the Frosts and the Democratic Reps who support them, and they haven't even done anything other than voice their views.

[templar knight]

Exactly, Willie, these so-called liberals are nowhere to be found when real work for the poor needs to be done. Have a clean-up, spruce-up day for the poor, and all the volunteers we can muster come from the Baptist Student Unions and Wesley Foundation at our university. Not a liberal college student to be found. All they know how to do is dope it up, and run off their mouths, apparently while they're still high. A more disgusting, worthless bunch can't be found anywhere. And they think someone should listen to them. That's enough to make a grown man retch.

[templar knight]

Oh, and Willie, it is typical IslamoBoob behavior to exit a thread without ever having addressed the salient points. Another favored "debating" tactic of the Left. IslamoBoob hasn't addressed a single point you made, Willie, because he knows your right, so he justs shits in the floor, and says, "Look what Willie did". Typical college puke is what he is.

[Sarah]

I am reminded of an old Hasidic tale.

A man went about the community telling malicious lies about the rabbi. Later, he realized the wrong he had done, and began to feel remorse. He went to the rabbi and begged his forgiveness, saying he would do anything he could to make amends. The rabbi told the man, "Take a feather pillow, cut it open, and scatter the feathers to the winds." The man thought this was a strange request, but it was a simple enough task, and he did it gladly. When he returned to tell the rabbi that he had done it, the rabbi said, "Now, go and gather the feathers. Because you can no more make amends for the damage your words have done than you can recollect the feathers."

You and Malkin and your ilk will never be able to gather all the feathers of half-truths, innuendo, rumor and lies you have thrown to the winds about this family. Those feathers will trail them, and you, forever.

[budahmon]

Sarah,
What lies:
1. His business has been non-existent since 1999.
2. They are both college educated but neither of them has ever worked full time.
3. They qualify for SCHIP....they would still qualify for SCHIP if the Congress passed the bill that the President wants..with the funding levels he wants.
4. They live in a 3000 sq ft home worth 260K..and have a rental property worth 160K.
5. They have three vehicles..which they are required to pay insurance on and they still qualify for SCHIP.
6. He works intermittently as a carpenter.....now think about that...in the last 15 years the boom in housing leads you to believe...what about this man????

What we are saying is that there is something wrong here.....Welfare (and this is welfare) should be means tested... This was passed by a Republican Congress to help move people off of welfare when they passed the welfare reform acts back in 96-97 time frame. These people should not be on welfare. They should be working to provide for their family, which means taking care of medical insurance before you need it...they did not. They chose to be irresponsible. I'll say it again....The left has been reduced to arguing for two college educated idiots that can't take time out of their busy day to go work for a living and support their family?

[jj]

That's nice, Sarah. Us conservatives are all so evil that we can never be forgiven for our sins. And liberals never forgive, cause it's all about the feathers. I say "horsefeathers" to you and your ilk, Sarah. And let the pillow fight begin.

[eliXelx]

In Spain, where I live, it's unusual, no matter how rich they are, to see three-car families, especially if there are only TWO ADULTS in the family.
Have I got this wrong? Is one of the kids old enough to drive? Or is this the usual American disease of greed without need?

[eliXelx]

Sarah do you know the Hasidic story about the greatest archer in Poland who stops at an inn for the night and sees 10 targets each with an arrow stuck dead, but dead, centre, something not even he, the champ, could do.
Then he notices the young boy with a bow and arrows. "How do you do that?" he asks in amazement and awe. And the boy says "Well, Sir, first I shoot the arrow and then I paint the target"
Your horsefeathers could just as easily apply to the lies and deceit that the Dems have perpetrated with this family, so you've obviously shot your truthful arrow first and then painted your untruthful but convenient target, just like I've just done!

[IslamoLlama]

Sarah, don't worry. They'll lie their filthy hearts out and call you stupid for not believing them. A $400k house becomes a $260k house and its still rich. $40k educations become $1k educations and its still too much money on private schooling. A stay at home mom becomes a lay-about slacker simply because they're using SCHIP benefits. Stalkin' Malkin goes digging up local gossip from their neighbors and peaks through their windows at concrete counter tops that become granite in the retelling. And the fabrications go on and on, occasionally corrected, occasionally redacted, to be replaced by new myths about the how wealthy the family must be.

Of course, $250 million for a bridge to nowhere in Alaska and you hear barely a peep. $500 million for Big Oil to conduct discovery on new wells, and that's money well spent. $42.7 Billion for the Republican Medicare Part D - with pharmaceutical companies taking in billions in pork - and these guys just smile blankly. $589 billion on endless war in the desert - nation building and quagmire that they screamed against in Kosovo, and these guys break out the pom-poms in support.

There's no rhyme or reason to what a conservative will defend. Just so long as the President signs it, it's good. And if the President vetoes it, its evil. And let the "journalists" like Malkin make up fluff to fill in the details.

[Slim Tyranny]

And if you can't trust an unsolicited, unsigned email from an unknown neighbor, who can you trust?

[Slim Tyranny]

What's great is that the right wingers on the internet don't realize that they look like complete assholes to regular people (and justifiably so). You are attacking parents who came forward with their injured children to support a child health insurance backstop program that did amazing things for their children while preventing the entire family from crashing into destitution and poverty. A program they qualified for according to their state's standards. So yes, rather than working 2 jobs and selling their home to go live in a crappy rental or on the streets, they used this program. And the family was better off, and the state in general is better off, and the children were not punished for the supposed sins of the parents.

And you call them morons and cackle about their kitchen countertops and accuse them of fraud because they go to private school ("for $40k a year! oops we got that fact wrong, too!") and their unnamed neighbor inventories their cars.

You come off as complete a-holes.

That's why Ezra Klein has the high ground here, not Malkin. DEBATE THE SUBSTANCE OF THE PROGRAM. Stop gossip-mongering and smearing. Stop doing a half-ass, Google-based research job on this family. Stop being completely ridiculous.

[Peach]

A Volvo SUV.
2007- XV90 starting at $36,210 MSRP
Kelley Blue Book Price $30,600 - $40,300
------
GMC Suburban - say a 2005 GMC Yukon XL -
Kelley Blue Book Price $21,000 - $32,800
Original Retail Price (MSRP)1500 4WD-$42,155 2500 4WD-$43,230
----
Ford F-250
2004 Ford F-250 Super Duty
Kelley Blue Book Price $13,500 - $19,000
Original Retail Price (MSRP) XL SuperCab Short Bed 4WD-$27,660 Lariat Crew Cab Long Bed 4WD -$32,056
---

Please.

[Templar Knight]

You're just a hater, Peach. Quit confusing these Leftists with facts and logic. Their heads start hurting, they go into fits of dulusional rage, they congratulate themselves for their lack of wisdom, they claim to be "regular" people(haha), and they pontificate on subjects of which they have absolutely no clue(like having a job and working for a living). How's that job going, IslamoBoob? I KNOW you are gainfully employed. Hahahahahaha!!!!Maybe you can buy a gun to shoot us conservatives, as you've threatened to do before. You little worm.

[Observer]

Loons from the left screaming about an email to Malkin from a neighbor of the Frost family.

Mind check you fools.

Do you think that she would run with an email content from any where without confirming with the sender contact information and physically calling them to back up the email and getting positive proof of where they lived so she wouldn't fall for a lefty sand bag operation?

Damn you and your type are so easy.

[Observer]

The real issues behind looking at the Frost family.

Only three states have an asset test in addition to a means test for eligibility for SCHIP coverage.

The Frost family shows that they made poor choices and by virtue of that qualified for the program even before the accident to the children.

Based on having two properties which are both mortgaged from their own statements in the Baltimore Sun and verification they have three vehicles which require insurance under Maryland law it becomes suspect how they could afford all that on their income and provide even basic necessities after that.

This was the chosen spokes person for the Dems and now is turning out to show weaknesses in how the program is structured to start with.

Any expansion as listed in the vetoed bill would put the wage cap higher potentially dealing in more hard to justify clients.

The family would still be covered by the program if the bill President Bush wanted had been sent to his desk.

The version sent to be vetoed had a budget increase of 125% of current funding to add 30% more clients to be covered. Less bang for the buck.

[jackson]

"But expanding entitlements that support poor choices, or an unwillingness to make sacrifices and doing it by taking money away from hard working middle class Americans, is not good for America"

What about Government picking up the tab for pensions being dropped by companies paying their CEO's enormous amounts of money to run the companies into the ground? Why should we expand this "corporate" entitlement to support poor choices and an unwillingness to not pay executives inflated salaries so they can keep the company that employs hard working Americans?

If this is our way of thinking as a country, anyone who stands up and says that we are a "Christian" nation who holds these "beliefs" is lying. This is not what Jesus taught. This is not how the Bible tells us how to treat our neighbor and fellow human being. Our country has slaughted Jesus for a new version of blood money and bloodsport of hating those "less fortunate."

[Roy Mustang]

"4. They live in a 3000 sq ft home worth 260K..and have a rental property worth 160K."

The tax assessed value is $260,000. Remember, their neighbor's house that sold for $490,000 was assessed at $390,000.

I would say the market value of the home is closer to $330,000+.

[el gordo]

I think you want to read this for some context:

http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=NTk3MzRlY2ZkYzJiNzg2MzdkZGI2MzUyYzZiYTYzYzk=

[LOL]

S-CHIP was actually created by Hillary Clinton and Ted Kennedy. True Republicans did pass it, but those are the two that drafted the legislation. Just clearing this up for everyone.

[Fred Beloit]

A commenter who says he is from Spain wrote this: "Or is this the usual American disease of greed without need?" He is talking about an American family, the Frosts, having three vehicles. Tell me my fine Spanish friend, have any Muslims said boo to you lately and scared the living crap out of you. This is the vaunted Spanish way of courage, isn't it? The Muzzies scared your government out of Iraq in a hurry.

Yes, we Americans are only out for ourselves. That's why so many Americans went over there to help you with your efforts, failed alas, to rid yourselves of Franco. True many of them were Lefties, but that shouldn't bother you any.

[Wahoo Willie Sez:]

"Or is this the usual American disease of greed without need?"

I had a good laugh over that one too Fred. A descendant (I assume) of the people who brought us the Conquestidors, the inquistion, slaves and were so much help in two world wars.

[Fred Beloit]

I have a suspicion, Wahoo, that this character is no Senior or Senora. I think it may be just one of the usual punkateers who hang out here.

[Wahoo Willie Sez:]

You're likely correct Fred. I think it would be a great laugh if we selfish Americans stopped giving stuff to the rest of the world and kept it to ourselves. Those billions Bush is sending to Africa alone for AIDS could buy all sorts of health care for Americans.

[Fred Beloit]

"Those billions Bush is sending to Africa alone for AIDS could buy all sorts of health care for Americans." I have to laugh when some of these crazies throw Sweden and its socialized medicine in our faces. They compare the Swedish government spending with that of the U.S. saying if Sweden can afford socialized medicine so can we.

Breakdown of central government expenditure 2006

Per cent
■ Health and medical care, social services 6
■ Defence 6
■ Justice 4
■ Other 21
■ Interest on central government debt 6
■ General grants to local government 8
■ Transport and communications 4
■ Education and academic research 6
■ Unemployment benefits, activity support, etc. 9
■ Child allowances, parental insurance, etc. 8
■ Guarantee pension, survivor's pension, etc. 6
■ Sickness benefits, activity compensation, etc. 16

Source: Ministry of Finance

Very interesting, but I don't see any foreign aid listed. Why? Maybe it comes under "Other". Have fun with this.

[Fred Beloit]

Oops, forgot to say the above is Sweden's budget.