The Mormon Issue

Like Ace, I wish people would get over it. There is no religious test to run for office in America and there shouldn't be.

Comments

[bobInStamford]

BooHoo. The best the 24%ers have is a flip-flopping cult member.

[seekeronos]

Feh. I don't care much Mitt McFlippity-Flop's religious choices - but I agree that the Mormon meme is a bit over-worked.

Perhaps more focus on his baby-kiling policies or his destruction of sound Christian family values which were decidedly NOT within the mainstream of conservative Republican ideals... or, his need to consult a team of lawyers before exercising executive authority in advent of an enemy action.

[docweasel]

I have a personal take on this. A friend of mine, who admittedly has had psycholgical problems in the past and is groping for answers, became interested in Mormonism. She contacted the Mormons, asking for info. They have put a full-court press on her, scheduling stuff, coming over to her place, pressuring her to attend meetings, etc.

She very easily influenced and dominated by strong minded people and I see them completely steam-rollling her. Plus, since she's my friend I've done some research and read _many_, not just one, website by ex-mormons detailing their Amway/Scientology-like practices to rope people in and them overwhelm them

I've also looked into the relgion: its got racist tenets, its highly sexist, putting women in an almost 19th century subservient role, its VERY intolerant of other religions, to the point of antagonistic practices like digging into the genealogy of non-members and baptizing they dead ancestors by proxy, something I knew they did to Jews because Jews make a complaint about it- they do it to ALL of us, your own dead ancestors might be made a mockery by Mormons.

I told her I would be quite offended if they had a service 'baptizing' my own sainted Catholic grandmother, who attended church 3 times a week, gave to the poor more money than she could afford for daily needs, and who was as selfless as the day was long. My friend, through her indoctrination, informed me that my Grandmother's religion was a false one, worshiping statues and saints and the Virgin Mary, and that the Mormons baptized such people in the hopes they made the choice, in the afterlife, to be embrace Mormonism, for only in this way would they be saved from hell.

Needless to say, I found this highly offensive, Not only that but the smug condescending and almost robotic way she smilingly informed me of my Grandmother's lifelong delusion that she was doing the right thing. Reading up on the matter I found all this stuff to be in line with the experiences of other ex-Mormons who had left the faith.

Its come to the step now of shunning sinners, which include me, a non-believer, and a gay mutual friend, whom she first lectured that it was her duty to try to convert from a life of sin leading to his damnation, and absent his agreement to stop his behavior, she could no longer see him as a friend. Now she has told me she might stop letting her parents around her son, because they are Protestants and she feels they are a bad influence, because their Prostestant church is well known for all the members screwing each other's wives and being local businessmen engaged in exploiting people.

Its her son, so its her choice, but I feel a lot of sadness at the indoctrination they are already starting on her 2 year old son. I consider this entire episode a result of her mental problems (she regularly takes Xanax, Zoloft, Tomazopam, and anti-nausea med, Percocet for her back and I don't know what else. I see this infatuation with this cult as a symptom of her mental problem, and these vultures are taking full advantage of it. The lastest is informing her of how her parents don't really care for her and how destructive they were to her as a child. I know her parents, they are paying her rent and most of her bills and have been very supportive of her, she literally couldn't live without their help. I've never seen them be anything but understanding and tolerant of her ups and downs mentally. Her Mormon handles have advised her that perhaps she needs to cut off contact with her parents, both sisters and brothers, as well as most friends, in this period of transition because their criticism of Mormonism is based on bias and hate and she doesn't need to have to debate them about her choices nor defend the Mormon's tenets (we could go into them, Scientology has nothing on the Mormon's when it comes to crackpot dogma and the history of the Mormon church, but that's another 3 paragraphs).

Anyway, I've seen and heard Mormons first hand. I think they are predatory. I think their religion is based on racism (bordering on white spuremacy), sexism and extreme intolerance of other religions to the point of antagonism. I think they victimize vulnerable people and mentally browbeat them into joining and getting deeper and deep into the church. My research has convinced me I'm far from alone on this.

For these, and still more reasons there's not room to print here. I find Mormons VERY disturbing. I dismiss Romney out of hand because of this. I am SO disturbed by Mormonism that if Romney gets the nomination, I will not merely sit home, it would be the only situation where I would feel compelled to vote for Hillary, and I'm quite serious.

I was unaware of the perfidy and cult-like features of Mormonism until I saw them up front and personal.

[dumbblonde]

The fuss over this issue perfectly exemplifies one of the many reasons I "just say no" to organized religion of any flavor.

[LOL]

are you freaking kidding? The Repubs would never vote for an atheist or Jewish or Islamic prez. So please don't tell me there isn't a religious test from your camp. This post is exactly why you are intellectual dishonest

[seekeronos]

I reckon the usual lefty-looney moonbats trolling this site will have a field day with this next statement, but I firmly believe in it:

********************************
Jesus HATES organized religion.
********************************

Whether it is Protestant (Mainline or "Evangelical") Catholic (Roman or Eastern Rite) Eastern Orthodox (pick a country) or the Pharisaic Judaism of Jesus's time...(*see endnote)

...or any of the multitude of patently false religions, false gods, outright idols, and antichrist teachings, such as Mormonism, Watchtower Society, Freemasonry, Islam... none of these is able to save the souls of men (and women - hereinafter, my usage of the generic "man" and "men" shall refer to the sum of humankind).

To be more specific, Jesus hates the man-made trappings that usually accompany much of organized religion: the more place that man gives to man to "institutionalize" and ritualize the religion, it takes the focus and worship away from God. It is for this reason that really only two sacraments are authorized and commanded of believers by the Bible; Baptism and the Lord's Supper (symbolic of His death and resurrection).

Reciting prayers of vain repetition (be it rosaries or the Westminster Confession), bowing to sun-god/Tammuz-inspired monstrances or praying in magicked undergarments or baptizing dead people or flabbling over which Roman day is properly the Sabbath Day are but devilish distractions.

Salvation is by faith only in Jesus Christ, through grace which comes only from hearing the Word of God, (Ephesians 2:8-9, John 14:6, Romans 10:17)... and the Word of God alone is the sole measure and authority by which a Christian should live.

Aside from that great promise of redemption by our Advocate, the Lord Jesus Christ... we are ALL nothing but the vilest of offensive odours - disgusting, stomach-turning, filthy, blood-soaked, iniquity bound, moth-eaten rags...

...wretched sinners in the hands of an omnipotent and righteously angry God.

Any "religion" or teaching or anything else besides those wonderful, soul-cleansing, saving Words inspired and spoken by our Saviour is a man-made add-on.

Wherefore those who minister must take great care to subject any church tenet or religious "practice" to much Biblical scrutiny, letting the preponderance of agreeing scripture either affirm it, or reject it, as the Holy Spirit reveals.

Believers must also exercise the same care, as any unproven or supposed doctrine could become a stumbling block to one's own ministry and one's own walk with Christ.

I'd also say that certain teachings regarding the "shunning of sinners" is incredibly judgmental when applied to unbelievers; how can they reasonably be expected to hold the same standards of the Bible as believers!

Therefore, the Christian calls sinners to repentance, openly welcoming and beckoning them to come to God's house - or encouraging them with the Good News of Salvation by word of testimony and the testimony of a clean conscience and the good works wrought by a truly regenerate, believing, Holy Spirit indwelt, contrite, repentant and zealous Christian.

Endnote: My remarks are not geared insult or defame to any particular denomination, but rather the focus upon which a believer derives his or her place in church. Are you a Protestant or Catholic only by family tradition, or birth, or by mere alignment? Are you "saved" and "sealed" by reciting a creed or confession, or eating a wafer host, or wearing special garments... I say not, because those are mere works.

None of these things matter unless you are saved solely by faith in Jesus Christ's redeeming death at Calvary, and His resurrection to life eternal, and then to "do the works of the One that sends you"... as a supernatural outworking of that redemption.

[docweasel]

seekeronos:
That's similar to my feelings about religion. I refuse to believe a benevolent God will damn an otherwise good person to eternal damnation and suffering because they ate meat on Friday, or didn't go to Church every Sunday, or didn't follow all of the arcane and trivial rituals and traditions of the various religions.

My personal take on Jesus' teachings is: be good to other people, don't lie to them, steal from them or hurt them physically. Help others when you can, and you should even strive to sacrifice to do good things to make the world a better place and make others' lives better. Don't do evil things to hurt other people, in their jobs, in their families, in society. Don't spread lies or rumors intended to cause strife and ruin lives. Basically, be good to one another and the world will become a better place.

You don't need to observe Kosher rituals or say 200 Hail Mary's to do any of those things. They are outmoded relics left over from a time when the major religions took rituals and traditions from old pagan religions to ease the conversion of disparate peoples into the new monotheism concept. They are illogical and irrational, and in my opinion, useless in our world today.

Organized religion fosters bureaucracy, a concentration of huge amounts of money and power, and we all know that corrupts even pious and well-meaning people. Therefore, they have worn out their purpose and people should begin leaving them and instead using philosophical teachings from a variety of sources to live a better life based on caring for and helping others in our daily lives, and at minimum, not being malevolent or trying to hurt people, psychologically or physically.

I do happen to believe some people use religion for a crutch, and have a psychological problem that forces them to rely on such out-moded forms of religion as some sort of superstition: if I say 100 rosaries, or chant mantras or seder prayers, I'll go to heaven. Fine, if it keeps them from hurting themselves or others or going insane.

But rational people are moving away from this superstitious mumbo jumbo. I do believe in God. But I don't believe in all the trappings and traditions, nor do I believe we need to conform to the instructions of various "elders", be it the Pope, or Mormon Patriarchs, or Imams, or the Dalai Lama, or what have you.

That's not to say I am a moral relativist and there is no good nor evil. I'm just saying we don't need a formal organized religious structure to figure out theology and arcane points like the exact formulation of the Holy Trinity or bestow sainthoods or hold high holy Sabbath days.

[seekeronos]

I like to keep mine as simple as God's words, which are faithful and true:

"Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth." (John 17:17, KJV)

The overwhelming majority of folks - even folks you might at first glance see as pious people... miss salvation by about 18 inches. That's the distance between the head and the heart; a head knowledge does no good when the heart is still unregenerate and rotten to the core. Jeremiah 17:9 teaches us that:

"The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?" (KJV)

This is why Jesus said to Nicodemus that "ye must be born again" (i.e. spiritual regeneration and subsequent infilling by His Holy Spirit to truly apprehend the mind of God from His Word).

"For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." (Romans 10:13, KJV)

I am that "whosoever".

And that salvation is the one which regenerates the heart (regenerate, from Latin "regenere" :: re + gen from "genesis" meaning birth or origins + "ere" action/verb modifier = rebirth!)

"-----
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
-----" (Romans 10:9-10, KJV)

And beyond that, I need only keep myself spiritually fed by daily reading God's word, keeping fellowship with the saints (that is, other true Christians who have been embraced the Lord Jesus as their Lord and Saviour... not those long-dead Lutheran, Catholic, or Episcopalian dudes) and daily fervent prayer, i.e. talking to Jesus and casting all our burdens at His feet.

"But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you." (Matthew 6:33, KJV)

The good works, the desire to share the joy of my salvation with others, and a desire to do new things my selfish, carnal heart would cringe at otherwise... like helping and serving others... all of that followed on after I received Jesus's offer of redemption and forgiveness.

It really is all about Him, and living in a relationship with our Creator.

[dumbblonde]

I should have been more specific. By "organized religion" I meant *any* institutionalized system of religion, whether Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, or Ride-Naked-on-a-Goat-around-the-Olive-Tree-at-Midnightism.

[Anon]

Aw...now y'all are just biased. I like the original post, up at the way tippy top. The part that says "I wish people would just get over it..."