I Don't Think It's Mostly Leadership

Bryan offers an appropriately limited comparison between Katrina with the current fires in California:

But the difference between responses then and now seems to come down to leadership, starting at the local and state level and then up to the federal level.

Leadership plays a roll, unfortunately, I don't think it's the primary factor. I think attitude, particularly as regards the residents plays a bigger role. I am in no way suggesting the Katrina area residents somehow deserved what happened. But you had a population with substantial portions demoralized by poverty and taught by liberal Democrat regimes over the years to look to them for help. That government failed them. And if a large portion of the population in Southern California weren't self-mobilizing, I suspect they'd end up feeling failed by government, too. Actually, some will no matter how solid the response. People who look to the government first and themselves second, if at all, are always doomed to be disappointed.

Comments

[Cindi]

What ever happened to common sense? The day I depend on anyone other than myself and family for survival is the day I hang it up.

[Tom]

Let's be realistic about this. Southern California right now, in the middle of these fires, is a more livable and functional place than New Orleans was before Katrina.

[Wahoo Willie Sez]

What Tom said.

Look comparing Fla, Georgia, Miss, Ala and Texas to the fiasco in NOLA is more fair than Cali. Louisiana and NOLA especially have suffered under the yoke of the demonrat plantation system for far too long to expect anything better than we got, waiting for Uncle to save them.

California (literally the Cali forest service) invented all this emergency response stuff in the 70s and they have been THE example ever since. The National Response Plan borrowed heavily from the old Incident Command System of Cali Fire & Emergency Services

[joeb]

There is no comparison. None whatsoever. NOLA was under water. It is true that California was prepared. Check out all those planes and firefighters. When fires burn in France they never have enough planes or firefighters.
The scale and difficulty of the Gulf Coast disaster was much larger. No one seems to understand that.
Bottom line: If you live in a swamp in La. you will someday be flooded. If you live in fire zones in Calif. you may be burned out.

[Purple Avenger]

It'll turn ugly any day now when the zombie cannibals show up.

[JustOneMan]

Even rats and roaches know to get out of harms way without the governments help!

"difficulty of the Gulf Coast disaster was much larger. No one seems to understand that" your right all of the morons who didnt listen, didnt leave and didnt prepare. Like sheep they waited for SOMEBODY ELSE to do something!

JOM

[joeb]

I would say those people in California are very much looking to the govt. to come and take care of those fires. And the govt. is doing a great job in responding. How about giving govt. some credit sometime.

[templar knight]

Hmm....well, there is a functioning transportation system in SoCal, as opposed to a submerged system in NOLA after Katrina. You have to admit that the lack of passable roads was the major impediment to moving refugees caught in the Superdome and the Convention Center. That said, yes, there has been a difference in attitude between the people in the two disasters, so far. It's still too early too tell, though.

[Captain Joe]

Whatever happened to sensible zoning? Most of those houses that burned should never have been placed there. Somebody should control where houses are built in California. And insurance companies should charge the shit out of those who insist on building there. If the insurance companies can redline houses built within fifty miles of the East Coast, they can sure as hell do the same for the Left Coast.

[Hank]

There are two reasons California will get all the help they need by the feds:

1st, we are in an election cycle. California has a lot of electoral votes. Both parties will be fighting over who will do more for the sunshine state.

Secondly, Southern California is a major media market, which guarantees wall to wall coverage of the tragedy.

[Worst President Ever]

Do you think being able to drive, since all the roads aren't flooded, might help people mobilize?

Bush and Brownie couldn't even drop WATER BOTTLES to stranded New Orleanians. I guess they wanted to prove that government really can't do anything - at least when run by Republicans. The picture of Bush's New Orleans flyover on his way back from his Texas vacation sums up his administration's Katrina response in a nutshell.

And about 50% of California's National Guard equipment is in Iraq along with 1,500 National Guardsman.

Oh yeah, many scientists say the increase in mega-fires is a direct result of global warming.

[Tom]

Sorry to bring, you know, realing back into the picture here Worst President Ever, but we were talking about people leaving BEFORE Katrina hit.

Oh, and also, I know it's fashionable to blame either Bush or global warming for every bottle of milk that goes sour and every baby that cries these days, but SoCal just burns like this every few years. I grew up in LA and knew people who got burned out more than once in Malibu or the Palisades highlands.

[Lala]

Tom,
Wasn't one of the raging fires some years ago caused by the kangaroo-rat population, i.e., the forest service wasn't allowed to do a controlled burn because that would destroy their habitat?

[Wahoo Willie Sez]

"Bush and Brownie couldn't even drop WATER BOTTLES"
While it is true that FEMA would be better off run by a rookie fire fighter than a guy who groomed horses. None of you "George BushisdaDebil" geniuses never did seem to understand that the area of devastation was bigger than Great Britain. Only God Him self could've done a better job. As opposed to the great James Whit who did no better during the flooding of hurricane Floyd....actually the evil genius Bush finally got the poor folks in Princeville, NC taken care of.

"Hmm....well, there is a functioning transportation system in SoCal"
As someone who lives within Cap'n Joes "50 miles of the coast" I figure some of you do not know what we do when the 'big one' is coming. Voluntary evacuations start BEFORE the rain even comes in, the pretend "mandatory" evacs begin before storm force winds arrive. AS for NOLA. Most of the people "trapped" at the Superdome....drove there. Nagin and the "governor" had AMPLE opportunity to use the hundreds of buses WAY before the storm hit and even more before the levees were blown up by Cheney's ninjas. Of course since GW is da debil, none of you will ever admit culpability on the local's part....cuz after all GW should have sent in his mercs to force ppl from thier homes at bayonet point.

"How about giving govt. some credit sometime." Joe my point was that effective government, pre-planning AND community attitude have worked well in Cali. It worked well during the earthquake in SF in the 1980s when local citizens helped fire fighters move hose and effect rescues. And that is the only way to go a workable trifecta. Our frends on the left though cannot see the need for cooperation though as they are blinded by hatred.

[Wahoo Willie Sez]

"the forest service wasn't allowed to do a controlled burn"
One of Cali's biggest problems is the lack of mitigation because of "we moved here cus it's so beautiful" and then there are our enviromentalist friends.Strangely they dont understand that fires occur naturally as often as control burning. Difference is in the terminology. Wonder how the kangaroo rats are doing today?

[Worst President Ever]

katrina was in a league of its own.

If you're poor, don't have any money, no resources, it's a bit hard to simply pack up and leave. Many of the elderly simply had no way to get out. Yes, Nagin probably screwed up. But in a disaster the size of Katrina, the only entity that really has the resources to deal with it is the Federal Government. And they were AWOL. In point of fact:

"It was on the day before Hurricane Katrina hit the Gulf Coast, after thousands of people had packed the Superdome, that the lone FEMA worker in New Orleans sent his first plea for help."

Now that's some kindof preparation.

That's FEMA - The Federal Emergency Management Agency. Who did Bush put in charge - a horse guy with ZERO disaster experience.

No, SoCal doesn't burn like this every year. The fires are getting bigger. Ya think there's a reason why?

[chris]

"No, SoCal doesn't burn like this every year. The fires are getting bigger. Ya think there's a reason why?"

It's the LORD's wrath for electing Duke Cunningham 8 times.

[You're All Idiots, Especially You!]

"Who did Bush put in charge - a horse guy with ZERO disaster "experience."

FEMA shouldn't exist in the first place. But that's another topic. However, Re: Brown, don't be a liar. The guy was head of FEMA for years and handled dozens of hurricanes in Florida. This leftist nitwit notion that he had ZERO experience is yet another convenient lie. Surprising, huh?

>>Previously, Mr. Brown served as FEMA's Deputy Director and the agency's General Counsel. Shortly after the September 11th terrorist attacks, Mr. Brown served on the President's Consequence Management Principal's Committee, which acted as the White House's policy coordination group for the federal domestic response to the attacks. Later, the President asked him to head the Consequence Management Working Group to identify and resolve key issues regarding the federal response plan. In August 2002, President Bush appointed him to the Transition Planning Office for the new Department of Homeland Security, serving as the transition leader for the EP&R Division. Mr. Brown currently chairs the National Citizen Corps Council, part of the President's USA Freedom Corps volunteer initiative.

Prior to joining FEMA he practiced law in Colorado and Oklahoma, where he served as a bar examiner on ethics and professional responsibility for the Oklahoma Supreme Court and as a hearing examiner for the Colorado Supreme Court. He had been appointed as a special prosecutor in police disciplinary matters. While attending law school he was appointed by the Chairman of the Senate Finance Committee of the Oklahoma Legislature as the Finance Committee Staff Director, where he oversaw state fiscal issues. His background in state and local government also includes serving as an assistant city manager with emergency services oversight and as a city councilman.

A native of Oklahoma, Mr. Brown holds a B.A. in Public Administration/Political Science from Central State University, Oklahoma. He received his J.D. from Oklahoma City University's School of Law. He was an adjunct professor of law for the Oklahoma City University.<<

So what's your bio, WPE?

"The fires are getting bigger. Ya think there's a reason why?"
Yeah, some were set by arsonists.

[ramona]

I live a couple hours east of NOLa, in Pensacola, where we know about hurricanes. Spent lots of time there, know many people who used to live there. As soon as we saw Katrina heading in that direction, ALL of us said "Well, that's it for NOLa. It's gone." For generations NOLans have been joking about getting hit by the big one, the levees busting, but not doing thing one to take care of themselves in that eventuality. Too busy partying, I kid you not.

Anyway, a couple weeks after Katrina we drove to NOLa to take a look around. What we saw on every single street: cars. Abandoned cars. Cars a lot newer than what we drive. Cars that people living in places like the 9th Ward owned but DID NOT BOTHER USING to GET THE HECK OUT either before the storm hit, or in the day or so afterward when it was clear the levees weren't going to hold.

I have no sympathy for the vast majority of people who remained, because the vast majority KNEW the risk they took in staying put. Nobody who has not spent serious time in NOLa has the slightest concept of what a clusterf*** the place was, is, and has been for more than two centuries. What is amazing is that it lasted as long as it did.

[Worst President Ever]

The FEMA Job was given out as political patronage, tough luck to those that actually needed someone competent running the agency:

"Brown took over FEMA in 2003 with little experience in emergency management. He joined the agency in 2001 as legal counsel to his friend, then-FEMA director Joe Allbaugh, who was Bush's 2000 campaign manager. When Allbaugh left FEMA in 2003 Brown assumed the top job."

As for Good Job Brownie: Two days after Katrina hit, Marty Bahamonde, one of the only FEMA employees in New Orleans, wrote to Brown that "the situation is past critical" and listed problems including many people near death and food and water running out at the Superdome.

Brown's entire response was: "Thanks for the update. Anything specific I need to do or tweak?"

There's an inspiring go-getter!!!!

[You're All Idiots, Especially You!]

>>Brown took over FEMA in 2003 with little experience in emergency management.>>

Great, now we both know you're a liar. First, he had NO experience in Dis. Mmgt, but only with Arabian Horses. Now he had little experience. Of course, if he had too much experience, then you'd say he was just another Washington insider.

But unlighten me, WPE, Chris, et al. What should have been done specifically? Dazzle me with your years of disaster mmgt experience.

[You're All Idiots, Especially You!]

<

Holy cow, you mean during a natural disaster, the victims weren't slurping caviar off the nipples of Russian whores!? Oh, Bush declared NOLA a fed. disaster area BEFORE Katrina landed.

You know what's classic? Remember how Bush was blamed for not coming to NOLA quick enough? Now the CA Dem pols (LT. Gov to be exact) are blaming Bush for visiting too quickly. You can't make this stuff up.

[Worst President Ever]

That I'm not a disaster professional somehow excuses the incompetence of Brownie and FEMA? You got a mirror there Mr. You're All Idiots, ESPECIALLY YOU!

[You're All Idiots, Especially You!]

Again, I ask, what were the specific incompetences committed by Brown and FEMA? What should have been done that wasn't? The fact that you have no disaster experience is why you can only answer in political platitudes. FEMA and Brown should have done....... (fill in the blank) Go for it. Enlighten me.

[seekeronos]

"--- Oh yeah, many scientists say the increase in mega-fires is a direct result of global warming. ---"

Now that there is about as much of a myth as you might say my belief that God is allowing disaster after disaster to judge this nation for its collective sins (abortion, propagating and abetting sexual perversity to our children, greed and general wickedness).

When disaster strikes.... you say "OMG! Global Warming! Run AWAY!!1!one!!"...

...and I'll say "No, bring forth the fruits of repentance, for the axe is already laid to the root of the tree. Repent therefore, and live..."

The Lord takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked:

"------------------------------

18:21 But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.

18:22 All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live.

18:23 Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord GOD: and not that he should return from his ways, and live?

...

18:32 For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord GOD: wherefore turn yourselves, and live ye.

------------------------------" (Ezekiel 18:21-23,32 KJV)

[Worst President Ever]

Why ask me, a mere citizen? Let's go to Brownie - the man in question:

This would kindof an indication that Brownie didn't have a clue: "We just learned of the convention center – we being the federal government – today." –FEMA Director Michael Brown, to ABC's Ted Koppel, Sept. 1, 2005, to which Koppel responded: "Don't you guys watch television? Don't you guys listen to the radio? Our reporters have been reporting on it for more than just today."

Then there's this quote: "Considering the dire circumstances that we have in New Orleans, virtually a city that has been destroyed, things are going relatively well." –FEMA Director Michael Brown, Sept. 1, 2005

Or one from Our President: "What didn't go right?'" –President Bush, as quoted by House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-CA), after she urged him to fire FEMA Director Michael Brown "because of all that went wrong, of all that didn't go right" in the Hurricane Katrina relief effort

Then Brownie himself admitted things hadn't been handled well. He even goes so far as to blame Homeland Security for the screwups - an obvious admission that FEMA hadn't performed well:

On January 18, 2006, Brown stated that certainly things could have been handled differently, such as calling in the military. On February 10, 2006, Brown again testified before Congress, this time placing blame on the Department of Homeland Security for the poor handling of the disaster, asserting that the anti-terrorism focus of the Department had caused it to deny resources needed to FEMA. In his February 2006 testimony, Brown also contradicted earlier claims that the White House was unaware of levees having been breached, stating: "For them to claim that we didn’t have awareness of it is just baloney."[21]

In June 2005, the Department of Homeland Security's Inspector General warned FEMA that its systems for managing the personnel and equipment dispatched to disaster sites were inadequate. Instead of remedying the problems the report identified, FEMA director Michael Brown disputed nearly all its findings.

*********
Then lets go to some FEMA email - New Orleans is in the midst of a huge disaster, city flooded, people dying and Brownie's priority is dining out:

Bahamonde (Marty Bahamonde, regional FEMA director for New England) to Nicole Andrews, FEMA spokeswoman, Aug. 30, 7:02 a.m.

"What is happening with the US travel this morning. When is he [FEMA Director Brown] coming to New Orleans. The area around the Superdome is filling up with water, now waist deep. The US can land and do a presser but then have to leave, there will be no ground tour, only flyover," referring to planned visit by Brown.

_Bahamonde to FEMA Director Michael Brown, Aug. 31, 11:20 a.m.

"Sir, I know that you know the situation is past critical. Here some things you might not know.

Hotels are kicking people out, thousands gathering in the streets with no food or water. Hundreds still being rescued from homes.

The dying patients at the DMAT tent being medivac. Estimates are many will die within hours. Evacuation in process. Plans developing for dome evacuation but hotel situation adding to problem. We are out of food and running out of water at the dome, plans in works to address the critical need.

_Sharon Worthy, Brown's press secretary, to Cindy Taylor, FEMA deputy director of public affairs, and others, Aug. 31, 2 p.m.

"Also, it is very important that time is allowed for Mr. Brown to eat dinner. Gievn (sic) that Baton Rouge is back to normal, restaurants are getting busy. He needs much more that (sic) 20 or 30 minutes. We now have traffic to encounter to get to and from a location of his choise (sic), followed by wait service from the restaurant staff, eating, etc.

_Bahamonde to Taylor and Michael Widomski, public affairs, Aug. 31, 2:44 p.m.

"OH MY GOD!!!!!!!! No won't go any further, too easy of a target. Just tell her that I just ate an MRE and crapped in the hallway of the Superdome along with 30,000 other close friends so I understand her concern about busy restaurants. Maybe tonight I will have time to move my pebbles on the parking garage floor so they don't stab me in the back while I try to sleep.

_Bahamonde to Taylor, Sept. 3, 1:06 a.m.

"The leadership from top down in our agency is unprepared and out of touch. ... But while I am horrified at some of the cluelessness and self concern that persists, I try to focus on those that have put their lives on hold to help people that they have never met and never will. And while I sometimes think that I can't work in this arena, I can't get out of my head the visions of children and babies I saw sitting there, helpless, looking at me and hoping I could make a difference and so I will and you must to."

- - -

It actually goes on and on. But you get the drift.

[You're All Idiots, Especially You!]

Okay, let's go over this one last time, shall we? Like I've said before FEMA shouldn't exist, and I'm sure Brown screwed up...as would just about any other mere mortal when faced with such an unbelievable task. Are you saying that a more qualified FEMA director would have transformed the Superdome into Xanadu? If so, tell me how, SPECIFICALLY.

See, I'm asking you this to prove that YOU DON'T GIVE ONE RAT'S ASS about what makes a good FEMA director. It's all about scoring political points, and lying in the process, you remember, the Arabian Horses.

But whatever, just remember how FEMA handled NOLA the next time you got your hand raised for More Socialized Medicine Please.

[scarshapedstar]

"But whatever, just remember how FEMA handled NOLA the next time you got your hand raised for More Socialized Medicine Please."

Autocoprophagy (eating one's own feces) at its finest. An ultraconservative government refuses to protect its citizens during the worst natural disaster in history (if Katrina, a far worse disaster than 9/11, didn't call for federal intervention, WHAT THE F*CK DOES?) and blames the phantom of big government liberalism for the ensuing nightmare. Then, they gleefully lick their chops and point to their own failure as proof that what little of the safety net remains should be demolished so that the next time something like this happens... uh... everyone dies? Private disaster-relief firms move in? What's supposed to happen?

[John Galt]

"But whatever, just remember how FEMA handled NOLA the next time you got your hand raised for More Socialized Medicine Please."

This is the part I don't understand.

Think of FEMA and the IRS and VA.....and then there's the demand for gov't control of medicine industry/health care?

I left Canada partly to escape that.

[John Galt]

"if Katrina, a far worse disaster than 9/11, didn't call for federal intervention, WHAT THE F*CK DOES?) "

The State has to allow Fed help. It's called the constitution. Read it. Remember the buses? Remember the help that wasn't allowed in? Remember people not leaving?

You're right. The Local and State Gov't failed NO. And THAT is what you want running your health care?

[Wahoo Willie Sez]

Wow nice argument between the wpe and the yai. The GB is da debil crowd will never, EVER accept that personal responsibility failed first, then local EMC, then state EMC. It had to be the Feds as far as they're concerned. FEMA could've/should've done a better job of picking up the numerous pieces dropped by local/state govt. Now had the Fed done what the governor thought they should. IE parachute the 82nd in to take over everything the argument would have been Bushes unconstitutional heavy handedness. Had they not actually been needed they would be pooping thier pants even more for impeachment.
People who have never been through anything like a large disaster have no idea what i is like to respond. Still, Brown was not qualified for his position and YAI, I've got over thirty years in the business backing my opinion. That is a post for someone with the experience of moving armies or navies not a horse groom.
The local and state folks are the most to blame for that fiasco because they knew for years this could happen and apparently did nothing to prepare. I give you the other coastal states preparedness plans as proof.

[jj]

Hahahahaha! I hate to change the topic, but I just got off a Telegraph UK link at Tim Blair, and one of the stories highlighted was on the number of people in Britain who were buying private insurance because so many(90,000) people were dying from infections in public hospitals, mainly because of filthy conditions and shortages of antibiotics. Oh, the irony, the irony of something like that coming up at this time!

[You're All Idiots, Especially You!]

>>Still, Brown was not qualified for his position and YAI>An ultraconservative government refuses to protect its citizens during the worst natural disaster in history (if Katrina, a far worse disaster than 9/11, didn't call for federal intervention, WHAT THE F*CK DOES?) and blames the phantom of big government liberalism for the ensuing nightmare.<<

Actually, the real Katrina nightmare has been putting up with nitwits like whoever wrote the above for the past 3 years. How many times must this be said: FEMA is not a first-responder organization. They coordinate efforts between local and state orgs. They distribute taxpayer money.

Finally, it's NOT the fed. govt's job to act as an ATM for people without Homeowners Insurance. Nor should the fed. govt be subsidizing housing that private insurers won't insure because the structures are built on unsound land.

[You're All Idiots, Especially You!]

Formatting error:

>>Still, Brown was not qualified for his position and YAI<<

Never said he was. My pts are: 1) it's a lie to say he had no Emergency Mmgt experience before Katrina. He did. 2) Those who criticize the fed govt. response are doing so only to score political pts. Nothing else.

[Lala]

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/mark-finkelstein/2007/10/24/tamron-tackles-garamendi-national-guard-gaffe

"TAMRON HALL: President Bush is coming tomorrow and you told Hardball's Chris Matthews that he did not need to come. Instead you'd rather have the National Guard back from Iraq. Chief of the National Guard, Lt. Gen. Steven Blum says that there are still 17,000 National Guardsmen in California right now and just 3,000 in Iraq. Would that have made a difference, and why did you make those comments?"

Hahaha

[Worst President Ever]

I'm an Idiot writes: "See, I'm asking you this to prove that YOU DON'T GIVE ONE RAT'S ASS about what makes a good FEMA director. It's all about scoring political points, and lying in the process, you remember, the Arabian Horses."

No - I'd say the same if a Dem had screwed up. You're simply an apologist for Republican incompetence.

I expect someone do DO THEIR DAMN JOB. I guess in your world that's too much to expect.

[You're All Idiots, Especially You!]

>>No - I'd say the same if a Dem had screwed up.<<

Ok, go for it. Both Nagin and Blanco are Dems as are most of the LA leadership. So let's hear it....

[Worst President Ever]

You first, prove to me you're not an apologist for Republican incompetence.

[You're All Idiots, Especially You!]

Bush is wrong for:

the medicare prescription drug program.
calling the Minutemen vigilantes and not being tougher on the border.
the recent UN sea treaty remarks.
continuing federal subsidies for farmers.
pushing for a federal bailout of mortgage co's and bankrupt homeowners.
not pushing hard enough to keep john bolton on board.
making jokes about not finding WMDs at a press dinner.
expanding americorps.
explaining stem cell research as a moral issue instead of explaining it as a "not the fed govt.'s job" issue.

Trent Lott is a clown.

If Fred T. gets the repub nomination, I'm gonna scream (not in a good way).

Arnold S. is a TERRIBLE governor (though still better than Gray Davis).

Jim Gilchrist is a fool and wasted any opportunity he had to make a real difference by running as a 3rd party guy.

[Wahoo Willie Sez]

"2) Those who criticize the fed govt. response are doing so only to score political pts. Nothing else."

Well, we're in total agreement here. Unfortunately you will never get the lefties to agree that FEMA aren't first responders. They hate the constitution as much as most other things American and are unaware that FEMA or the military CANNOT be first responders. It is the job of state & local govt to do that. And you'll NEVER live long enough to have one admit any notion of personal responsibility.

[Wahoo Willie Sez]

"No - I'd say the same if a Dem had screwed up."

So let's see it then. Let's see you say that the last admin did no better w/ it's natural disasters, that it let Osama slip away and what ever else you'd care to add.

[Worst President Ever]

I agree, FEMA's not first responders. Their job is to come into major disasters and do the job local agencies don't have the resources for. Like Katrina. Osama had nothing to do with FEMA. Bush's record on that is much worse than Clinton's.

Let's see:
Hilary is way too calculating and shouldn't be the Dem nominee
An addendum to that: No royalty families - no more Clintons, no more Bushes
Dems - and particularly the leadership - are stupid for not standing up for what they believe - Wimps you might say.
Dems should push mom-and-pop issues more and worry less about the fringe constituencies.
Can't stand Dianne Feinstein.
Gray Davis was stupid for not seizing the power plants and showing how Enron had been using California as an ATM.
And both parties suck for being in the pocket of big corporations.

That Bush routine looking for the WMDS was repulsive.

Osams'a got nothing to do with FEMA.

[scarshapedstar]

What tBogg said:

"Not that I would wish this on myself, but I don't have any dramatic stories about grabbing valuables (papers, my iPod, the dogs, my Brooks Robinson autographed baseball...probably some other stuff) and evacuating to sanctuary somewhere. For a lot of us who live in the central city part of San Diego, particularly by the coast, the fire is something that is happening out there. Every morning I've walked out to a light coating of ash on the ground, but blue skies up above. Looking to the east, and now to the south, you can see smoke that looks more like morning haze. This morning, for the first time, large flakes of white ash have started to fall, and if it weren't for the fact that the world smells like a wet ashtray, you would think it was the start of a light snowfall.

This is one of the reasons why the San Diego fires are so different than the devastation caused by Katrina in New Orleans. The devastation is not city wide. Therefore we have the resources and the luxury of being able to take care of those who need help, and things have run smoothly because of lessons learned from the Cedar fires a few years ago. Using what is going on down at Qualcomm Stadium with the debacle at the Superdome during Katrina is like comparing apples with ....stadiums.

So, please stop. It's not cultural. It's just a different situation in a different climate."

[seekeronos]

At least WPE is owning up to a few things:

"---
Hilary is way too calculating and shouldn't be the Dem nominee
An addendum to that: No royalty families - no more Clintons, no more Bushes
---"

I think on the evil calculating genius scale, Hillary is far more capable than GB is. That broad is downright Machiavellian right down to her shriveled, coal-black, frozen heart. In my honest opinion, I think she was the practically serving as the President wearing Bill as her mouthpiece. I hope she doesn't get the nom either, but with a crushing lead, Obama's stagey "I don't need no steenking flags" gambit, and the Breck Girl's campaign laced with loonies here and there, she's about as much of a Hsu-in for the nom as I think Magic Mitt is for our side with his Bohemian grove connections. Another nose-holder election to be sure.

"--- Dems - and particularly the leadership - are stupid for not standing up for what they believe - Wimps you might say. ---"

That depends on if you mean the DemCong(ress) should have defunded the war within the San Fran Nanny Pelalugosi's first "100 hours" (only when the clock is actually punched). Which was their constitutional right; the only thing that stopped them was a lack of consensus and a bit of cat herding to their various constituencies (say a D rep from TX who barely won his seat from an incumbent R) as well. Not to mention the fear of being seen as "cut and runners" with their faces being remembered as those that set the last helicopter a-flight from the top of some building in Iraq as one or more Islamist army closed in for the kill at the heels of a catastrophic extraction of US Forces.

"--- Dems should push mom-and-pop issues more and worry less about the fringe constituencies. ---"

I dunno, but I think they are doing that. So far, the extreme socialist left has been largely ignored.

"--- Can't stand Dianne Feinstein. ---"

She does seem to be an adept politician - capable of leaping tall stacks of paper in a single bound whilst talking from both sides of her mouth. One of many on Capitol Hill.

"--- And both parties suck for being in the pocket of big corporations. ---"

This is true. But where else will they get the massive amounts of $dough needed to run a campaign?

Personally, I wouldn't mind some provision being made so that third parties would not exist except to spoil votes of either or both major parties.

Heck, do away with primaries altogether, and let each candidate run on their own merits.

[scarshapedstar]

"Obama's stagey 'I don't need no steenking flags' gambit"

Do you really want me to start posting links to Republicans without lapel pins (i.e., engaged in acts of High Treason)?

If not, well, I'm still gonna link to George Bush defacing the flag (note to Rule Of Law Party: this is a crime.)

http://dcdl.org/2006/06/22/bush-defaces-flag-again

[Wahoo Willie Sez]

Nice link scar, no wonder your mind is so fudged up. Sorry you don't see a difference in signing a flag (which by the way is an old tradition) and Obama's reasons for not wearing one and excuseless ignoring of the national anthem.

[seekeronos]

Scar:

(1) It's not about the lapel pins with Obama. It's about running for POTUS and *making a point* about not waering it, and *making a point* about not saluting the flag whilst the national anthem is played, or any similar occasion where US citizens would be expected to salute the flag.

(2) Signing a flag is technically against the flag code (36 USC 10), however, signing a privately owned flag such as the small handheld flag owned by the woman in the linked picture could hardly be considered criminal desecration of a flag in the same manner as those who would burn or defecate or trample it underfoot as certain folks in San Fransicko or Portlans, OR might like to do.

[scarshapedstar]

"Sorry you don't see a difference in signing a flag (which by the way is an old tradition)"

Wow, I had no idea. I thought the ideals represented by the flag were too big for one citizen to trivialize by writing their name on it.

Guess I was wrong. It's only a matter of time until Republicans start handing out flags with little elephant emblems on them, or maybe "W The President". Classy.

Seeker,

"however, signing a privately owned flag such as the small handheld flag owned by the woman in the linked picture could hardly be considered criminal desecration of a flag in the same manner as those who would burn or defecate or trample it underfoot as certain folks in San Fransicko or Portlans, OR might like to do."

Actually, it could. It's a flag, not a post-it note or a business card. If you walked into a used car dealership and the flag outside had the owner's name monogrammed all over it, wouldn't you consider it offensive? Is everyone supposed to write their name on their flag now?

(Nice moral relativism, by the way. "We have to deface flags because the Dirty F*cking Hippies do it, too!" Makes almost as much sense as the "Emulating Clinton" defense of lawlesness...)

[Fred Beloit]

scar, you need to drop the unrealistic comparison of a POTUS signing a flag with someone burning it or defecating on it in a deliberate effort to demonstrate their hatred for the U.S. There is no possible comparison, now is there?

[Aerorpbler]

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