Alright, That's Enough On Graeme Frost

I did some research into the Frost family last night but was just going to let it go, no need to pile on, etc. But Think Progress doesn't seem to want to let it go. So, I'm posting what I turned up after I say my piece.

See those faces at Right? No, not the kids. This was never about the kids, Graeme, or otherwise. It's tragic that they were injured so severely. But it's also tragic that apparently F Halsey Frost, otherwise known as Daddy here, never learned to take responsibility for himself, or give up options he wasn't prepared to support. Why bother, one can always call on the American taxpayer for that?

This story is about the parents, Bonnie and F. Halsey Frost who grew up with all the advantages and, despite what I might assume is a liberal view on abortion, not only most likely support that free choice; if someone wants to have kids, they apparently believe it's cool to play with wood, or hold low-paying, fun, or perhaps lower stress jobs without having to worry about providing for whatever number of moppets one might feel like dropping into the world. I guess it's, let someone else pay for it, in their world view. I'm thinking F H learned that and little else from his Daddy.

Do they have any idea of the number of people who stay in less than great jobs precisely so their kids can have excellent benefits? It's called sacrifice, something Bonnie and F don't seem to think is their job. Nah, let's leave that to American taxpayers, many of whom don't even make as much as they do and certainly don't have the long line of private schools in their past.

How about getting Dad to cash in on the vintage 1956 T-Bird, 56 being the year he graduated from Princeton, F H? Doesn't he care enough about his Grand kids? I mean, that question's fair game, right? After all, you weren't too ashamed to put it to us by allowing your child to be used by a liberal political machine, right?

That's the car that recently won him third place in an antique car show. He has money to help send the Princeton Band on the road - how about calling Dad next time you need some help instead of trying to reach into the collective pocket of the American taxpayers, you irresponsible, simpering wimp.

I hate to pile on here, but some of what I've been reading given a deeper search kind of steams me. Following up on Michelle's post on Graeme Frost, meet Mr. and Mrs. A. Corwin Frost of Bronxville, N.Y.

That would be Princeton '56, as in they were able to cough up some dough to help send the Princeton Band to San Diego. Take third place in the Manchester Antique and Classic Car Show with their '56 T-bird. Must have been fun tooling around Princeton in that, I'd bet. Of course now, they're reduced to tooling around in "affluent" Bronxville - Corwin is Chairman of the Planning Board - keen to keep the riff-raff out of the hood, or so it seems.

"The more we hear, the more we think he may be an undesirable guy," said Frost. "We don't know his real motivation."

Bronxville is an affluent bedroom community of 6,200 people in southern Westchester County, about 15 miles from mid-town Manhattan. In a one-square-mile village dominated by Tudor, Victorian and colonial homes, Green's warehouse home would be by far the largest and most peculiar.

There was money for the Alumni Walkway at a Private School in Bronxville, looks like Corwin went from there straight to Princeton. I assume he does alright given this billion dollar NJ project he ran. There are three generations of Frost architecture in the archives of American Art.

Yes, the Frost children are victims, but not of conservatives. They look more like victims of a couple of mostly spoiled brats who became parents and never felt compelled to take responsibility for themselves when it came to the bottom line on that. There are poor people in America who need help, particularly as regards Health care. The point is, the family above shouldn't be and simply aren't among them. Call Dad next time you want some bucks FH. And kindly leave the rest of America's collective wallet the hell alone.

Or, hey, get a second job with benefits. I've done that more than once in my life when I needed the cash. And do it before you let Graeme tell the media how much you struggle to take care of him, because there are enough people in America who really do struggle with these issues. And when they take a look at your lot in life they are left far from impressed and unmoved to cough up one thin dime so you can enjoy afternoons playing with your lathe, or whatever the hell else it is you do in your factory.

I don't see someone who needs my help in F Halsey Frost. I see a simpleton and a loser who had more kids than he could afford and doesn't appear to have given up very much in life to deal with that situation. Who knows, maybe Dad figured it out, too and cut him off. What the hell, there's always welfare, right?

Comments

[jr565]

xanthippas wrote:
In other words, ignore what we Republicans have told you for decades about the values of hard work, the merits of being a small-business owner and living in an "ownership" society, and be a wage slave for one of the few corporations these days that will provide decent health insurance so we can avoid being taxed to pay for your sick kids. Unless of course that doesn't apply to the argument I'm trying to make, in which case forget I said all that.

Any principles left over there on the right? Let me get out my microscope. Umm...hmmm...no, not that I can see.

But at least you've got bloggers like Dan Riehl!

The dems lied in the first place about Bushs intent, as if he were trying to end the program. He wasn't. ANd they then brought out the poor kid card, whereby they assumed they can make demagogic points about evil republicans trying ot deprive the poor of their healthcare, and beucase it was spoken by a 12 year old it would be spoke with absolute moral authority. Just like CIndy Sheehan, because she lost her son in the war, was somehow unimpeachable no matter what she said because of her circumstance. ITs the dems playing low ball class warfare demagogic warfare here, and now you're mad that people did some digging and foudn out that the 12 year old your side propped up as some unimpeachable political dagger, has some dirty laundry? You guys should have found a better test case. And I'd recommend next time, going for the poor minority instead. That way you can also play the race card too. ONly at least make sure the family is dirt poor first (like maybe find someone from New Orleans who was so poor they couldn't afford a car to get out of town with as opposed to someone who's family owns an SUV as well as a 3000 foot home, and who is getting 40,000 dollars worth of education free, and who has rich parents.
As to your point, being an entrepeneur doesn't mean that you have a guaranteed outcome of success. Many businesses fail. But this family has been in business for years and have both a house and a building that are worth something. if the business is failing then the father should take whatever job he needs to so as to suport his family. If that means the business has to go, then so be it. Isnt there some degree of choice involved in his circumstances. You deride wage slaves, yet this business man knew his business wasn't succeeding for years, yet continued to putter around and not earn money.He has a choice. His wife took another job, so could he. One that pays a salary.
He could then sell off one or more of his properties, move into a smaller or cheaper house, refinance, take out a loan on his equity, use his business as a means to purchase family insurance, have assistance from his dad. He's already getting a free education for two of his kids, how much does society have to cough up for him so that he can maintain his barely getting by lifestyle, when thats his choice to maintain?
He owned his house for at least fifteen yeasr and bought it at 55,000. Even if he hasn't paid off his mortgage there is plenty of equity in that house, and if he sold it he would get far more than 55,000 so it would be pure profit. This family is not doing bad for itself and it has plenty of options.

[Kman]

Why doesn't the MSM report on the bad medical situations that happen to children in other countries that have government run medical systems? You know that there are probably many.

If people in the US actually were told by the MSM the full facts about this couple and everything that led to their predicament, they would not be nearly as sympathetic.

People would still contribute on a personal level to their predicament (like I do through different private charitable funds and church), but to force everyone in the country to fund their mistakes is wrong (and, no, their children are NOT mistakes, but the parents actions up to now are mistakes aplenty).

We should not be rewarding carelessness and selfishness and there are always going to be cases of carelessness (even with the government involved).

Do i believe in some form of government help? Yes I do, but this is the wrong case story.

These kids are innocent (all small kids are) but they are victims of their parent's foolishness and probably selfishness (they can't be total idiots being able to go to such good schools all their life and having such successful parents themselves).

I could never understand why the Dems don't go after case stories many more people can relate to -- like a 55 year old that can't get insurance after being laid off that covers his/her preexisting conditions. (no, i'm much younger than 55). But I guess the Dems think that people will be less sympathetic with a 55 year old than a child with foolish parents.

Or how about the Dems actually stressing the helping of people that are truly down on their luck and destitute that need help?

[wingnuts to iraq]

wingnuts to iraq
wingnuts to iraq

we don't want to hear from you
until you're in iraq

if you send them off to die
but you stay home and watch TV
you're a coward, winguts!

go to iraq
go to iraq
go to iraq
go to iraq

COWARDS

[Looking Glass]

"wingnuts to iraq" didn't just have a psychotic episode. It was a "cleansing moment of clarity."

[Wahoo Willie Sez]

"It was a "cleansing moment of clarity."
I think he can take Immodium for that

[buzz]

"wingnuts to iraq"

I'm missing the connection between Iraq and this story. You really need to get out more.

[Tax Analyst]

"This silliness called National Health Care will either come piecemeal now, or it is sure to come in 2009. If you are smart, you will learn how to get around the system as it is being put in place, as your life will depend on it. The best thing for you to do is move out of any big city you might live in, as the demand for free health care in large American cities will make the Macy's Thanksgiving Day Sale look like a walkabout in the Outback. Befriend a doctor, get out of large metropolitan areas with large immigrant populations, learn how to keep yourself healthy, and learn alternate methods of obtaining antibiotics and other prescription drugs."

So, got your "Survivalist Bunker" all in place, have you now? But all kidding aside,I believe the most likely scenario is quite a bit of initial confusion, followed by people seeking information on how to best obtain adequate Health Care for their families, followed by some people figuring out how it works and other's having a tougher time of it. That's going to happen whenever any major change comes down. There's no question it will be trying at first, no matter what or how it is done. But the point is that something NEEDS to be done - the current system is inadequate and nonsensical. It leaves the uninsured to wait until treatable conditions become serious and then seek help at the Emergency Room, which is extremely expensive and an inefficient way to deal with most illnesses. It leaves many of the middle-class locked into jobs that perhaps do not suit them well and perhaps do not suit the economy as a whole all that well, either. It leaves Doctor's opting out of Insurance programs due to issues regarding Insurance Company payment scales and the time it takes to actually receive those payments. What we have now is a mess and we SHOULD be looking at ways of improving it instead of peeking in our neighbors back windows to try and determine if they are "truly worthy" by whatever nebulous standards an individual might wish to employ.

Or, you know, maybe you enjoy the current system and it's innate and unfailing fairness.

[Lala]

My daughter attended University in Moscow a few years ago. She called me and said she was sick with a fever so I told her to take two aspirin and call me back in a couple of hours. Instead the house warden called an ambulance and she was taken to Infectious Disease Hospital Number 3 (sounds like a parking lot). On arrival she was looked at by two people sitting at a desk. She was not examined, just looked at. Then she was given sheets to make her bed with and escorted to her bed by a twelve year old consumptive who asked her for a cigarette.

She made her bed herself and then someone came in and gave her two aspirin and a glass of contaminated Russian water. She told them that she, as a foreigner, could not drink their water and asked for bottled. They didn't have any so they boiled some water and gave her tea. She was not given any food; I think the patients have to provide their own.

After a while she decided she did not want to stay there and told them she wanted to leave. Impossible, they said, your clothes are locked up in another building and we can't get them until morning.

The following morning they tried to keep her there. She was told that they wanted her to stay there for two weeks. She had to fight to get her clothing and get out.

She returned to her lodging and was fine. I told her next time call the Jewish Brigade in Moscow, they run their own ambulances and clinics because things are so bad there.

[Wahoo Willie Sez]

"What we have now is a mess and we SHOULD be looking at ways of improving it."

You make a great deal of sense in that we do need a change. Tort reform may be one good start. Doctors with lower premiums of thier own would not need to charge as much. Families at the 80k level should be able to afford a good plan. Yet, thier should be something from the government available..voluntarily. For those of us who prefer insurance to a second home, leave us alone. For those on government insurance, preventive care should be mandatory. Now, who should pay for the care of people who are here illegally and pay no taxes?
Yes, there are lots of ways to create a better system of care. Many of them do not involve taking my money at gun point.

[Johnny Coelacanth]

Attacking a 12 year old boy and his family in the name of partisan politics? Another average day on the right wing blogosphere. I am greatly encouraged. If this is all the political will the right can muster these days, you guys are going to -love- President Clinton redux.

Oh, and Dan says Mr. Frost never learned responsibility for himself. Riiight. Because starting your own business and owning your own home just don't demonstrate responsibility. I haven't been here in a while, but it's good to know some things never change: Dan Riehl still can't write worth a crap and his fans are still rancidly stupid.

[The Last Patriot]

Here, here, Dan. Amen. Good parents sacrifice for their children. That, by my defintion, is what a good parent is. A mother or father, or both, who see the future of their children as their only legacy on this planet and are willing to forego every extraneous, non-essential expense to ensure their kids have everything they need to be happy, healthy, well adjusted citizens.
My mother and father raised seven, yes seven, children and had to do without so much that would have made their lives more satisfying and easier. I never heard a single complaint about how much easier their lives could have been if only they'd denied myself or any of my siblings some of the things we thought we would die if didn't have like bicycles, and a pile of presents every Christmas, and big birthday parties every year. My Mom and Dad, God love 'em, went out and worked two and sometimes three jobs each to make sure we never wanted for anything. And it was never easy for them.
My father, aside from his full-time job as a tool and die maker, worked evenings and weekends selling fences and built a sucessful business through the 1960's and early 1970's only to have it collapse under Jimmy the Dhimmi Carter's disasterous economic policies. He could easily have hung his head and fell back on the government to pay his way, but he knew that the only way to keep us fed, clothed and insured was to keep fighting and scrimping and saving. Well, we never missed a meal, never went naked (which is nice in the Midwest during January), and we always had enough medical insurance to cover all the attending broken bones, stitches, appendixes, tooth braces, births, etc...
He is my hero, not because he is my Dad, but because he showed me by example what a good parent is and what a good parent does for his children. Today, all seven of us have degrees in one field or another, and 4 of us own our own businesses. Both of my parents are now retired and enjoy travelling the country at their leisure because they wouldn't allow themselves to fall into the trap of thinking that the government would always bail them out when they hit upon tough times. They tightend up their belts a notch or two, and showed my brothers and sister what good parents, and good Americans have to do to succeed at being both.
The Frosts? Seems to me they thought they could grab a little of media sunshine and things might start popping for the better. Unfortunately, they put their trust in unscrupulous, scumbag Democrats (I know, that's triply redundant) and broke the cardinal rule of parenting: Never , ever, let dirtbags get near your kids.

[Kman]

Johnny,

Why didn't the father have health insurance for his family or at least for his kids? Didn't he care about his kids?

[Worst President Ever]

Orrin Hatch and Chuck Grassley both came out in support of SCHIP. Neither's exactly a flaming liberal. For Democrats, Bush has turned into the gift that just keeps giving. By the time the elections roll around, the guy will be radioactive and every dumbass veto like this just shows how out-of-touch he is and adds to the coming Democratic landslide. Why do you think they vetoed it as quietly as they could with no cameras to record the act?

By the way, here's the advice Grassley gave Dems on this issue - send the SCHIP measure to Bush repeatedly until the president agreed to sign it.

And the title of this thread is also somewhat humorous - Michelle Malkin's out doing drive-bys of the Frost family's house, but it's Think Progress that won't let it go. ROTFLMAO

[Johnny Coelacanth]

"Why didn't the father have health insurance for his family or at least for his kids? Didn't he care about his kids?"

But the father _did_ have health insurance for his kids. It was called SCHIP (perhaps you've heard of it). It worked so well that young Graeme Frost was invited to go on the radio and talk about how it helped him.

[Paul A' Barge]

"Mrs. Frost, 26 years old, is a receptionist at the Cat Hospital at Towson, in Baltimore. She graduated from Towson State University"

Good lord. She has a college degree, and when married at 26 years old held a job as a receptionist at a pet hospital?

And, she wants my tax dollars?

[Paul A' Barge]

"Orrin Hatch and Chuck Grassley both came out in support of SCHIP".

Lots of folks support SCHIP. It's the new SCHIP 2 on steroids that sucks... because the new SCHIP 2 wants to put middle class losers on government run health care.

[Xanthippas]

And, she wants my tax dollars?
=============
Bush wants them for the war. Gonna hide your wallet?

No?

[Xanthippas]

Seems to me they thought they could grab a little of media sunshine and things might start popping for the better.
===========
This brought to you from the Department of Assholes Who Don't Know What They're Talking About.

[Xanthippas]

Or how about the Dems actually stressing the helping of people that are truly down on their luck and destitute that need help?
==============
You mean like the Frosts?

Gosh, how's that working out?

[Drew]

Dan,
Great to see what a bunch of caring and considerate folks you have as your audience. Great work. You guys can get all lathered up in faux outrage when the Democrats try to get more Americans access to affordable healthcare. I mean what a horrible misuse of taxpayer money. You must be proud to take apart a family who is just trying to do the best for their kids. You sir are a model American and Republican. Fuckwad!

[Xanthippas]

He owned his house for at least fifteen yeasr and bought it at 55,000. Even if he hasn't paid off his mortgage there is plenty of equity in that house, and if he sold it he would get far more than 55,000 so it would be pure profit.
====================
Welcome to Republican Health Care, where you are required to sell your home to get care for your sick and wounded kids. All hail the ownership society!

[Xanthippas]

This silliness called National Health Care will either come piecemeal now, or it is sure to come in 2009. If you are smart, you will learn how to get around the system as it is being put in place, as your life will depend on it.
=========================
Here's a tip.

GO TO IRAN.

[Xanthippas]

But the dems had to bring out a little kid in an attempt to shame Bush is a shameless political ploy
=========
You're right, it was a bad idea. It only works when your President has some shame.

[Johnny Coelacanth]

"And, she wants my tax dollars?"

She already has your tax dollars, genius. And then what? I know more than one college graduate who has or had to work low level jobs. I love your line about "middle class losers." Très amusant.

[Wahoo Willie Sez]

Here's a tip.

GO TO IRAN.

Why? Wait a few short years and it will be like that here

Questions. Not that any of you has the guts to answer any. Just how far are you willing to go? How much tax are you willing to pay for utopia? 40,50,60 percent of your income? I mean I'm all for people being paid what they're actually worth. example fire fighters,cops six figures and actors/athletes just above poverty. But how far are you REALLY willing to go?

[The Last Patriot]

===========
Seems to me they thought they could grab a little of media sunshine and things might start popping for the better.
===========
This brought to you from the Department of Assholes Who Don't Know What They're Talking About.
===========
Awwwww. Whassamatter Xanthippas? Strike a nerve, did I? What would ever make someone think some left-wing loser would use his kids as a means of bettering his own financial position by exposing them nationally to shameless partisan posturing?
Oh, and another thing my Dad taught me: When the first reponse to an argument is profanity, the profane have no legitmate reponse and have already lost.
Now, go stuff a bar of Zest in your mouth and go sit in the corner like a good little troll.

[Xanthippas]

But how far are you REALLY willing to go?
==============
I am willing for the government to take 50% of your income, so long as you are required to sell your home to pay your taxes.

[IslamoLlama]

"And the title of this thread is also somewhat humorous - Michelle Malkin's out doing drive-bys of the Frost family's house, but it's Think Progress that won't let it go. ROTFLMAO"

Yeah, I'm sorry, but between Mark Foley, Larry Craig, and Stalker Malkin, the right wing really has turned into the party of creepy old pervs. Was Michelle too good to just ask the Frosts for an interview? Nah, screw that. Let's drive by their house and peak through windows! Dig up gossip from the neighbors! Scope out bumper stickers!

Linsey Lohan and Britney Spears, eat your hearts out. Now every random kid on TV gets his own paparazzi tail-gaters.

[Xanthippas]

Strike a nerve, did I?
========
Yes, the nerve that is especially attuned to assholes who don't know what they're talking about. As you can imagine, it's quite raw after several years of reading blogs like this one.

[Wahoo Willie Sez]

"it's quite raw after several years of reading blogs like this one."

So why do it? You contribute nothing, aren't even a citizen. Why not go do something worthy of your intelligence?

[Worst President Ever]

SCHIP 2 - Wrong. Money going to families making $80,000 a year - Wrong. I can understand why conservatives want to try to make the issue some 12 year old kid, because this veto has the potential to be disastrous for Republicans. Unending War - yes. Tax cuts for the rich - yes. Health Care for poor kids - no f'ing way. That's the America Bush wants.

********
Republican Sen. Orrin Hatch of Utah, a loyal supporter of the Bush White House, responded angrily to the president during a Capitol Hill news conference.

"Are families of four making $83,000 going to get benefit(s) under this? Not unless the administration agrees to it. This bill does not call for that high level of expenditure," Hatch said.

Hatch explained that the only way such families would get SCHIP coverage would be if their states petitioned the administration for a waiver — just like under the current program. When New York, made such a petition, the Bush administration turned it down.

The new law would be the same, Hatch said, and even if the White House were willing to grant waivers, such families would make up just a tiny percentage of those eligible.

"To call this a step toward one-size-fits-all, government-mandated health care is just political in my view," he said. "This is a block grant. States have tremendous power over this bill — not total power, but power."

Hatch said he found the veto difficult to understand, and senior Republican Sen. Charles Grassley said the same thing.

"Every effort was made to bring the administration into the process, but it decided to veto the bill, I think, before it was even written. From their position, it was either my way or the highway. Well, that's not how the legislative process works," the Iowa senator said.

[Johnny Coelacanth]

"But how far are you REALLY willing to go?"

Oh, I'd be willing to part with 50 percent if it meant generous government health care, free college education and all the perqs that come with living in socialist hellholes like Sweden. As it is, I pay 20 percent in taxes and I get nothing but endless war and crumbling infrastructure.

[Xanthippas]

,aren't even a citizen.
=========
Have I been Malkinized already? Is that you Wahoo, looking in my window? Can you see me smoking this cigar, drinking brandy, counting the cash from my landscaping business and preparing to deposit my welfare check?

[IslamoLlama]

But the dems had to bring out a little kid in an attempt to shame Bush is a shameless political ploy
=========
You're right, it was a bad idea. It only works when your President has some shame.
=========
Oh, but Xanth, you're totally forgetting Bush's favorite prop. Snowflake babies! Nothing like hiding behind a dozen five-year-old kids when you're making veto number one. Then he hid behind soldiers while making veto number two. Now, however, it looks like he's got nothing to hide behind, so its time to come out guns blazing.

When Republicans lose another landslide in '08, and all the wingnuts are holed up in bunkers, waiting for the end of days, asking what went wrong, at least we'll have Dan Riehl's web page archives to explain it in detail.

[The Brutal Truth]

Ah, Lala, forget the Russian system, we have the Cuban system for our model, given over by Michael Moore and his band of Merry Morons. That the US would even need to have this discussion is insane, and the interference of the US Government via programs too numerous to mention, or even know, for that matter, is part of the blame.

If you people think National Health Care is going to do anything other than meltdown, then you need to seek mental health care now. I wish you people would actually think, I mean, really think about what you are proposing here. These are the major problems I foresee in the system:

1. An initial demand that will be impossible to meet, so we will see health care rationing in one form or another within 6 months of its inception.
2. Fraud on a massive scale.
3. A huge difference in the estimated versus the actual cost of the program. It will cost much more than estimated, and I mean much more.
4. The US will become a dumping ground for 3rd worlders with cancer, tuberculosis, and other diseases that are extremely expensive to treat, but will be made available to illegal aliens. As is happening in New York and other states even as we speak, so don't say this won't happen. You would be lying.
5. Our enemies will come here, take advantage of the system, and will use the benefits we give out to bankrupt us. They are already doing this with welfare and other forms of public aid, especially in Europe.

As for National Health Care vs. the War in Iraq, not much of a comparison. The cost of a public health care system would dwarf the War in Iraq, and would compare more to WWII in actual cost per capita. We couldn't last for very many years.

[Kman]

Xanthippas,

Come on now. Really. I don't think that the Frost's were truly down on their luck and destitute. And I think that most people would agree with me. By the way, could you please address people here in not such a mean spirited manner?

Johnny,

Thanks for not addressing me in a mean spirited manner. I just want to get to know the facts better. Did the Frost's have the SCHIP before the accident? Couldn't find in some of the stories about this. I'm assuming they did. Don't get me wrong, I probably would support some form of the SCHIP. We don't have SCHIP in my state. I do recognize the problem with the lower middle class obtaining health care that puts a great strain on them -- it is with identifying what is lower middle class. It is with identifying where to "draw the line". Also, don't always assume that people who are for the government to restrain spending are also for funding the war indefinitely.

[curvedbrain]

Check out the beautiful kitchen. Very elegantly done. So far, I don't see any way to know for sure how close or how far away this family is from "just getting by", but something smells rotten about their 'daddy is just a poor woodworker and we need help' story, especially given the grandparents of the children, and the parents' own educational backgrounds.. not to mention the real estate which they own. And for cryin' out loud, will you leftists quit lying that the 12 year old was "attacked", or that the Frost family was "attacked"? They weren't attacked. They sent their kid out on the public political stage as a tool to read Dem talking points, and legitimate questions were raised about their story that they and the Dems have been pushing. Legitimate questions about their situation which should have been raised by the MSM.. but weren't, because the MSM couldn't be bothered to check such details when the story fit so well with the narrative.

[Wahoo Willie Sez]

First statement "Wrong. Money going to families making $80,000 a year -"
Followed by the self cancelling: "

"Are families of four making $83,000 going to get benefit(s) under this? Not unless the administration agrees to it." The second part "Not unless the administration agrees to it." being the kicker. So people who make 80k a year will NOT be getting benefits but people who 83k might?

[Johnny Coelacanth]

"The cost of a public health care system would dwarf the War in Iraq, and would compare more to WWII in actual cost per capita. We couldn't last for very many years."

Thank you. This explains the economic collapse of Canada and Sweden. They should have stuck to efficient systems like ours, and they'd be fine today.

[IslamoLlama]

Oh, I'd be willing to part with 50 percent if it meant generous government health care, free college education and all the perqs that come with living in socialist hellholes like Sweden.
===========

Hahahahaha! Oh man. That's freak'n rich. Yeah, poor Sweden, I weep daily for their 5 weeks paid vacation, fully paid college tuition, universal health care, and 5.6% unemployment rate (that's all of 0.9% higher than the US, for those keeping score). They really suffer up in Sweden. If it wasn't for the fact that you need to be fluent in the language to get a job up there, I'd have kissed the states goodbye when I discovered the "hell hole" just last summer, vacationing with friends.

Total nightmare over there. Really.

[ShiddyButt]

You people are pigs. Fuck you and your party. I hope you all rot in hell.

[templar knight]

Hey, IslamoBoob, are you spilling the blood of "not liberals" today? How is that revolution thing going for you, or could it be that you are nothing but a cowardly loudmouth? Yep, coward hiding behind children, that's you, you little chickenshit bastard. NOW, STFU!

[curvedbrain]

This explains the economic collapse of Canada and Sweden. They should have stuck to efficient systems like ours, and they'd be fine today.

Well, Canada has long waiting lists for many procedures, and a fraction of the MRI's per capita as we have in the US. As for Sweden's standard of living compared to ours, see here http://www.manews.org/06study.html

[curvedbrain]

You people are pigs. Fuck you and your party. I hope you all rot in hell.

Stay classy, liberals.

[Wahoo Willie Sez]

"If it wasn't for the fact that you need to be fluent in the language to get a job up there."

Well you should let learning a language stop you from happiness. If you find an english speaking country where a man can TRULY be free without the govt telling him whee he can live and how to live, let me know.

[Johnny Coelacanth]

"If you find an english speaking country where a man can TRULY be free without the govt telling him whee he can live and how to live, let me know."

I suggest the Australian Outback, post haste. Please go as soon as you can.

[ShiddyButt]

As I said,feveredbrain, fuck you. Classy, thats rich.

[Worst President Ever]

"So people who make 80k a year will NOT be getting benefits but people who 83k might? "

A nitpicker. My mistake, it should all read as $83,000. No family at that income level has qualified for SCHIP.

And, in Senator Hatch's words, even should some state get a White House waiver, "such families would make up just a tiny percentage of those eligible."

[Wahoo Willie Sez]

"I suggest the Australian Outback, post haste. Please go as soon as you can."

Sorry fish boy Oz doesn't cut it either.

[Wahoo Willie Sez]

Wasn't so much a nit pick. either they WONT or they MIGHT, the extra 3 grand was simply quoting you, qouting me.