Alright, That's Enough On Graeme Frost

I did some research into the Frost family last night but was just going to let it go, no need to pile on, etc. But Think Progress doesn't seem to want to let it go. So, I'm posting what I turned up after I say my piece.

See those faces at Right? No, not the kids. This was never about the kids, Graeme, or otherwise. It's tragic that they were injured so severely. But it's also tragic that apparently F Halsey Frost, otherwise known as Daddy here, never learned to take responsibility for himself, or give up options he wasn't prepared to support. Why bother, one can always call on the American taxpayer for that?

This story is about the parents, Bonnie and F. Halsey Frost who grew up with all the advantages and, despite what I might assume is a liberal view on abortion, not only most likely support that free choice; if someone wants to have kids, they apparently believe it's cool to play with wood, or hold low-paying, fun, or perhaps lower stress jobs without having to worry about providing for whatever number of moppets one might feel like dropping into the world. I guess it's, let someone else pay for it, in their world view. I'm thinking F H learned that and little else from his Daddy.

Do they have any idea of the number of people who stay in less than great jobs precisely so their kids can have excellent benefits? It's called sacrifice, something Bonnie and F don't seem to think is their job. Nah, let's leave that to American taxpayers, many of whom don't even make as much as they do and certainly don't have the long line of private schools in their past.

How about getting Dad to cash in on the vintage 1956 T-Bird, 56 being the year he graduated from Princeton, F H? Doesn't he care enough about his Grand kids? I mean, that question's fair game, right? After all, you weren't too ashamed to put it to us by allowing your child to be used by a liberal political machine, right?

That's the car that recently won him third place in an antique car show. He has money to help send the Princeton Band on the road - how about calling Dad next time you need some help instead of trying to reach into the collective pocket of the American taxpayers, you irresponsible, simpering wimp.

I hate to pile on here, but some of what I've been reading given a deeper search kind of steams me. Following up on Michelle's post on Graeme Frost, meet Mr. and Mrs. A. Corwin Frost of Bronxville, N.Y.

That would be Princeton '56, as in they were able to cough up some dough to help send the Princeton Band to San Diego. Take third place in the Manchester Antique and Classic Car Show with their '56 T-bird. Must have been fun tooling around Princeton in that, I'd bet. Of course now, they're reduced to tooling around in "affluent" Bronxville - Corwin is Chairman of the Planning Board - keen to keep the riff-raff out of the hood, or so it seems.

"The more we hear, the more we think he may be an undesirable guy," said Frost. "We don't know his real motivation."

Bronxville is an affluent bedroom community of 6,200 people in southern Westchester County, about 15 miles from mid-town Manhattan. In a one-square-mile village dominated by Tudor, Victorian and colonial homes, Green's warehouse home would be by far the largest and most peculiar.

There was money for the Alumni Walkway at a Private School in Bronxville, looks like Corwin went from there straight to Princeton. I assume he does alright given this billion dollar NJ project he ran. There are three generations of Frost architecture in the archives of American Art.

Yes, the Frost children are victims, but not of conservatives. They look more like victims of a couple of mostly spoiled brats who became parents and never felt compelled to take responsibility for themselves when it came to the bottom line on that. There are poor people in America who need help, particularly as regards Health care. The point is, the family above shouldn't be and simply aren't among them. Call Dad next time you want some bucks FH. And kindly leave the rest of America's collective wallet the hell alone.

Or, hey, get a second job with benefits. I've done that more than once in my life when I needed the cash. And do it before you let Graeme tell the media how much you struggle to take care of him, because there are enough people in America who really do struggle with these issues. And when they take a look at your lot in life they are left far from impressed and unmoved to cough up one thin dime so you can enjoy afternoons playing with your lathe, or whatever the hell else it is you do in your factory.

I don't see someone who needs my help in F Halsey Frost. I see a simpleton and a loser who had more kids than he could afford and doesn't appear to have given up very much in life to deal with that situation. Who knows, maybe Dad figured it out, too and cut him off. What the hell, there's always welfare, right?

Comments

[Worst President Ever]

Let's quote Bush than and hope you'll hold him to the same standards of accuracy. Perhaps you can explain what "allow" means here.

"Mr. Bush argued that the Democratic bill would raise taxes and allow children whose families earn up to $83,000 a year to enroll."

[Lala]

The Canadian health care system is strange. There is a shortage of doctors and so there is a waiting list to get one. In order to see a specialist one must first see the family doctor. But if one has no family doctor then there is no health care.

I saw it on TV recently where every week the Town Clerk pulls a name out of a hat and then calls that person on the phone to tell him/her Congratulations, you now have a family doctor.

[Wahoo Willie Sez]

"Perhaps you can explain what "allow" means here."

There is no argument. The bill would raise taxes and he is saying that families could "enroll" in the plan, thus recieving the benefit. Hatch says no they wont, but then again they might.

[Worst President Ever]

No, families making above 300% of federal poverty level, about $60,000 for a family of four and far below $83,000 - cannot enroll in the program that passed Congress.

[Lala]

Isn't there also a provision to cover "children" up to 25 years of age?

[BobInStamford]

Let's get this straight, rednecks. There is money for invisible WMD hunts and invasions of countries that did not attack us on 9/11 but there is none for healthcare for American children?

You deadender 28%ers are an interesting bunch. Ever consider that if kids aren't healthy they can't grow up and fight your war on 'terror'?

Anyway, best of luck on your silly little battles.

[Lala]

I believe it is New York that is asking that the cap be $80,000.00 because of the high cost of living in the state.

[Wahoo Willie Sez]

"No, families making above 300% of federal poverty level, about $60,000 for a family of four and far below $83,000 - cannot enroll in the program that passed Congress."

""Are families of four making $83,000 going to get benefit(s) under this? Not unless the administration agrees to it."

Not unless the administration agrees to it......In other words the door is open

[dumbblonde]

Once upon a time, I was a single parent, solely responsible for the support of my infant daughter. I had no family living nearby to help out. This was during a recession ('90-91). I felt lucky to have found a job at all, especially as my education was unfinished at that time. My starting salary was $24,000, with ZERO health insurance. This was in a major city, where rent, living expenses, and quality child care were NOT cheap. I found a major medical policy which covered both of us for about $100 per month, and a term life insurance policy so my daughter would be provided for. Doctor visits were paid out of pocket, and unexpected illnesses or missed work took a major bite out of my wallet.

Time passed. I worked hard, finished school, and moved into much better positions. It was never easy, but we made it.

At no time did I expect or look for assistance. It was my responsibility to take care of myself and my child. I did just fine, thanks very much.

[Lala]

Wow, $24,000.00 was a good starting salary in 1991. My company closed down and the best I could get was $6.00 an hour to start. So I told my husband he could work overtime at his job and I'd stay home and take care of the kids.

[Worst President Ever]

"Not unless the administration agrees to it......In other words the door is open"

Again, the bill that passed does not allow a family making more than around $60,000 a year into the program. Period. Bush's statement is wrong and language is intentionally misleading.

[Lala]

Childrens Health First Act by Hillary calls for 400 percent of the poverty level and insuring children up to the age of 25

[Wahoo Willie Sez]

Worst: I like someone who can actually debate on points rather than partisan BS like some of these people. You've convinced me to look up the actual bill and pay no attention to the wings. However, does not change my opinion of the Frosts.

[Blue Texan]

"Get off your lazy asses and tell your sick kids to suck it up" is a real winner political winner there, Danboy. Good luck with that at the polls next year.

Given that 75% of the country supported the bill Bush vetoed, it's easy to see why you'd resort to vilifying this family that supports it.

Genius!

[Tax Analyst]

"Once upon a time, I was a single parent, solely responsible for the support of my infant daughter. I had no family living nearby to help out. This was during a recession ('90-91). I felt lucky to have found a job at all, especially as my education was unfinished at that time. My starting salary was $24,000, with ZERO health insurance. This was in a major city, where rent, living expenses, and quality child care were NOT cheap. I found a major medical policy which covered both of us for about $100 per month, and a term life insurance policy so my daughter would be provided for. Doctor visits were paid out of pocket, and unexpected illnesses or missed work took a major bite out of my wallet.

Time passed. I worked hard, finished school, and moved into much better positions. It was never easy, but we made it.

At no time did I expect or look for assistance. It was my responsibility to take care of myself and my child. I did just fine, thanks very much."

So that's it? It worked out OK for you, so "Case Closed" because everybody should just do the same thing and cross their fingers? Well, sincere congratulations on handling everything so nicely and managing not to get ill while pulling it off. Honestly, if what everyone wants is "every man(or woman, as the case may be)for him/her self", well, I guess that's a plan...sort of. We'll just toss everyone who falls short of your gritty little saga onto the nearest compost heap and send around a privately contracted sweeper later on to dispose of the remains. Nice, clean, easy. Hardly any "gummint" intervention and all except those failing to have your level of intestinal fortitude/good luck will live happily ever after.

Personal anecdotes - yes, that will be our future set of guidelines/criteria for National Health Care; if Ms. Single-Mother-of-the-Year, circa 1990-1991 can do it, well, then by God, so can everyone. Just roll up those sleeves, grit your teeth, take hold of your own bootstraps and pull...sure.

Jeezus, I'm sorely tempted to regale you with my own personal life story, but you know what - I'm fine no matter what they decide. For those so concerned, I'm not extracting $1 of public money towards my health care. Please be so kind as to take MY share of the funds you so niggardly would withhold from those in need and squat directly upon it. But while I am "fine" others are not, and I firmly believe we can provide better health care to our citizens if we decide to do so. Why don't we? I say we should be checking out the vested interests and asking WHY things must remain as they are. That's a straight-forward question, and I think we should expect a straight-forward answer instead of a lot of scare stories and dire predictions of a medical apocalypse. But you won't get a straight-forward answer because they would have to tell you that the Insurance industry makes a whole lot of money out of the current situation and they just would rather not cut loose of it, even if it were for a program that would benefit most Americans and alleviate a lot of death and suffering, not to mention the attendant anxiety health issues cause so many today. Other industrial nations offer health care to their citizens and the world hasn't ended - it still spins. Are they perfect? I doubt it. Does that mean that we must retain our current "system", if that's what you want to call it, in perpetuity? What, was there some Biblical proclamation, "Thus was the Health Care system of 10 A.D., so thus it shall always be?" If so, please give me one of those straight-forward answers as to why, but spare me the "Personal Anecdote" solution, because I'm not you and neither is the guy down the block and probably not the immigrant who's busting his ass to pick your god-damned lettuce, either.

But hey, I still respect all your marvelous grit and determination and I'm sure it'll get you a Reserved Ticket to Heaven in the by-and-by, so don't feel like you aren't being applauded or awarded enough, OK?

[Lala]

Well I'm in favor of having my death alleviated.

[A.W.]

Ah, this is just the latest round of Dem selective immunity.

John Kerry beats us over the head with his medals, thinking that 3 months in 'nam means he should automatically be president. But if you question whether he actually deserves those medals, even though he definitely lied about some of his experience over there, well that is incredibly unfair, low, etc.

And don't you dare question any dem's patriotism. But if a general dares to report good news from Iraq, he is accused of beytraying us. And if Rush Limbaugh has the termerity to point out that some of those lefty idiots claiming to be soldiers are a tad "phony" then Harry Reid will go on the floor of the Senate and call you unpatriotic.

Then they parade out Cindy Sheehan as the peace mom, a regular woman who just is mad that her son is dead. And if you dare point out that she is apparently an America-hating nutjob who calls the men who murdered her son "freedom fighters."

So, they use children to sell their health care plan, to show a typical family that just can't afford it that evil Chimpy McHitlerburton is keeping from getting his health insurance. And then if anyone points out that, what do you know? They CAN afford health insurance, then that is somehow over the line.

Really, is anyone surprised by this routine anymore?

But here is the real story here: follow the money. I will give you even money that this "ordinary family" is connected in some signficant way to a big Dem donor. Hence why such a ridiculous example was used.

[Inspector Callahan]

Personal anecdotes - yes, that will be our future set of guidelines/criteria for National Health Care; if Ms. Single-Mother-of-the-Year, circa 1990-1991 can do it, well, then by God, so can everyone. Just roll up those sleeves, grit your teeth, take hold of your own bootstraps and pull...sure.

Does the "Tax Analyst" see the irony of this statement? Aren't the Frosts "personal anecdotes"? So we should blanket 1/2 the middle class with "free" health care, because of a personal anecdote? LMAO

Yes, the nerve that is especially attuned to assholes who don't know what they're talking about.

Sorry Xanthippas, I've been in the health care business in this country for 19 years, and you're the one who doesn't know what you're talking about. Anyone who says the healthcare system in this country is bad, is a blithering idiot. If you can give me examples, in the U.S., where people have to wait 6 months for a coronary bypass graft, or be forced into quitting a bad habit (smoking), before he can get health care, then you'll have a point. If you can give me examples of people being turned away from emergency rooms who need care (hint - it's against federal law to do so), then you'll have a point.

What I see here from the lefty-drones is the usual emotional knee-jerk reactions - no actual discussion of the truth of the matter in Riehl's post, and ad-hominem attacks.

The lefty-drones may outnumber the logical posters here, but that doesn't mean you're right. Blinding stupidity is something a lot of people have.

TV (Harry)

[daveincoca]

Republicans = asswipes.
Q.E.D.

[Jay Currie]

While I am inclined to think that the Democrats picked the wrong poster child and, sadly, that they deserve the pummeling they are getting, I have to say the ignorance about single payer systems exhibited here is astonishing.

If you have a minute go read my 2004 piece on the Canadian medical system and its outcomes as compared to the US "systems". Ours is cheaper as a percentage of GDP and more effective in terms of life expectancy.

http://longposts.blogspot.com/2004/12/healthier-than-you-might-think-thank.html

[Terry Gain]

John Chretien, former Prime Minister of Canada was recently playing golf with a cariologist. He mentioned to the good doctor that he had been having some chest pains. The next day, the cardiologist (waiving the god only knows how long waiting period) examined Chretien. The day after (again waiving the the god only knows how long waiting period) the good doctor performed a quadruple bypass on Chretien.

Canadians are thrilled that that they have a univeral health care system where everyone is treated the same and it is in fact illegal for anyone to pay to jump the queue.

Chretien just got lucky in his choice of golf partners. The Canadian system is wonderful. Everyone is entitled to the same declining quality of care. And the system is so affordable. You'd be amazed at how much money you save when those waiting for treatment die off.

Judging by the posts here not a few Americans are clamoring for the same system. And it appears not to take too much to convince them they need the same wonderful socialized medicine that Canadians have. A 12 year old of a blue blood named Halsey is injured while a passenger in the family's SUV. Dad wasn't reposnsible enough to purchase motor vehicle insurance which would have covered his son's treatment. No problem. The state -i.e. those who don't live in $500.000.00 houses should pay.

Poor Halsey only owns a $500.000.00 house and a $200.000.00 shop. Poor Halsey can't afford insurance. His wife only makes $15,000.00 per year, which tells me she doesn't work a full week. Fair enough, she has four kids to care for. But what about blue blooded Halsey? He doesn't make more than $30,000.00 per year and presumably this includes the rent he receives from his tenant?

Perhaps a reporter will interview poor Halsey and ask why he abused his son by having him do a stupid political ad. I suggest that the reporter shake Halsey's hand long enough to determine whether there are any callouses on this woodworker's hands. And he might ask how much the Democrats paid the kid for the ad.

[Lesley]

Hey Dan, this example of how health care insurance eligibility works in Canada (this is the same in all provinces) is for you.

"Your eligibility for Ontario health coverage is not determined by whether you have a job or are unemployed, or where you pay your income tax. It is based solely on your meeting one of the above citizenship or immigration categories and on you making your permanent and principal home in Ontario."

There is no discrimination. You only need to prove you reside in the province and be a citizen or landed immigrant. EVERYONE RECEIVES COVERAGE. Poor, rich, one kid, 5 kids, pink kids, blue kids, green eggs and ham eating families or granola-eating hippies. Our health plan DOESN’T CARE.

The Frosts are welcome to move to Canada. The country is desperate for skilled tradespeople and educated workers. Oh, and since school enrollments are declining because of the low birth rate, large families won’t be considered a burden. Indeed, the economy won’t be sustainable at the current birth rate, which is why immigration quotas are increasing. This is also true for the US but wingnuts like Dan are too thick to realize it.

[Blue Texan]

While I am inclined to think that the Democrats picked the wrong poster child and, sadly, that they deserve the pummeling they are getting...

Er, pummeling? By whom?

75% of the country back the Democratic bill. Democrats are only being "pummeled" by Bush dead-enders like Riehl and Malkin, who will bash them no matter what they do.

Again, brilliant politics. Let's denounce a really, really popular piece of legislation and smear a family that supports the majority view. That'll work!

G-O-P! G-O-P! G-O-P!

[Lesley]

This message is for Terry Gain. I urge you to move to the US where your health insurance will cost you upwards of $1200 a month with a $3000 deductible per family member. Get back to me when you get cancer and find out your insurer won't pay for your chemo treatments.

The health system in Canada has its problems but it is INFINITELY better than the US system.

My mother died in a palliative care ward in an Ontario hospital. On her insurance alone she received round the clock care from five nurses and four doctors, all of whom were specialists in pain management and palliative care. I can't say enough about how the system helped our family through this crisis. At no time did they ask for my credit card or any money.

If you want the US system, MOVE THERE. Just quit whining and bitching about a system that for the most part works well when it's funded. Harper and Chretien before him wanted to kill it, and God knows they are trying to turn it into a private care system like the US. Over my dead body will they get away with it.

I would say to asshole Canadians like yourself who operate on the "me" principle to just get out of this country altogether. You're not needed or wanted. You contribute nothing. Just get the hell out.

[Korla Pundit]

Please explain why my good friends from the UK had to buy "Holiday Insurance" for their dad and hustle him into a New York trip, where he [surprise!] suddenly realized he needed heart surgery and a month in the hospital. Even with a nice chunk of wealth, he would have died on a waiting list in his beloved Socialist state of "free" healthcare. This is common practice for those with money in England and Canada. But those who don't have such luxury to travel to the U.S. with "holiday insurance" are left to die in a bureaucratic hellhole.

Not here. Nobody is denied medical care. Even illegals get free healthcare already. The only thing the Dems are pushing for now is to illegalize private medicine. That will give them the power over life and death in this country.

[Inspector Callahan]

"75% of the country back the Democratic bill. Democrats are only being "pummeled" by Bush dead-enders like Riehl and Malkin, who will bash them no matter what they do."

Because a chunk of people "agree" with something, doesn't make them right. Especially since they were brainwashed by morons like Blue Texan and his cohorts in the major news media over the last 14 years into thinking that it's such a great idea. I bet Blue Texan didn't like the idea that more than 1/2 the people in the country voted for Bush the last election. I mean, it's more that 50%, so they MUST be right.

"The health system in Canada has its problems but it is INFINITELY better than the US system. My mother died in a palliative care ward in an Ontario hospital. On her insurance alone she received round the clock care from five nurses and four doctors, all of whom were specialists in pain management and palliative care. I can't say enough about how the system helped our family through this crisis. At no time did they ask for my credit card or any money."

And of course, this would NEVER have happened in the U.S. - her mother would have died earlier. Right? Is Leslie saying this WOULD have happened here? Got any evidence of that? Since you live over there, you must know so well how things are here.

"I would say to asshole Canadians like yourself who operate on the "me" principle to just get out of this country altogether. You're not needed or wanted. You contribute nothing. Just get the hell out."

Actually, I agree with this statement. Let's trade to Canada all of the idiot lefties (like Blue Texan - he can be called Blue Ontarian!!), and we'll get all of the intelligent Canadians over here. Maybe then we'll get some logical thinking people in charge. Some of us would LOVE to have you here, Terry.

TV (Harry)

[Inspector Callahan]

"Not here. Nobody is denied medical care. Even illegals get free healthcare already. The only thing the Dems are pushing for now is to illegalize private medicine. That will give them the power over life and death in this country."

Don't bother, Korla. Logic is completely fleeting to these people. When you give a reasoned, logical critique of the Canadian health system (as Terry did), and Leslie comes along with spittle flying, and can't even try to counter the arguments, you know it's futile. They're all drones.

TV (Harry)

[Lord Whorfin]

I don't know if anyone has posted this above, but health insurance payments for the self employed have a pretty big tax savings.

[Lala]

A.W.

I believe Frost is connected to a Soros funded group called Family Matters which advances the cause of socialized medicine

[Lala]

Lesley said everything was covered by his mother's insurance.

I thought private insurance was illegal in Canada.

[dumbblonde]

Tax Analyst:

Got some anger issues?

My point was simple: A single parent without a high-paying job can afford to buy health insurance. I felt it was a priority - just as important as rent and groceries. So why couldn't the Frost family?

When my daughter and I were in an auto accident, the health insurance which I purchased paid for the hospital and medical bills. If the Frost family had purchased insurance, their hospital and medical bills would have been paid as well.

Are there people who sincerely need some help? Sure. But I wasn't one of them, and neither are the Frosts.

[Lala]

I lifted the following from realclearpolitics.com

Government rationing of health care in Canada is why when Karen Jepp was about to give birth to quadruplets last month, she was told that all the neonatal units she could go to in Canada were too crowded. She flew to Montana to have the babies.

"People line up for care; some of them die. That's what happens," Canadian doctor David Gratzer, author of The Cure, told "20/20". Gratzer thought the Canadian system was great until he started treating patients. "The more time I spent in the Canadian system, the more I came across people waiting. ... You want to see your neurologist because of your stress headache? No problem! You just have to wait six months. You want an MRI? No problem! Free as the air! You just gotta wait six months."

[Terry Gain]

Dan

I apologize for foul mouthed Lesley. Very unCanadian of her to call us names. She doesn't know the first thing about you or me buy that doesn't prevent her from engaging in such embarrassing behaviour.

It appears that Lesley is an NDPer- Canada's socialist party. Perhaps she's a Liberal. There's not much difference between the two. The NDP'ers nearly bankrupted Ontario when they were able to form a government in 1990 with 38% of the vote. In five long years they doubled the debt accumulated over the previous 128 years. They take solace in the fantasy that they created a great health care system. In fact the system was better 40 years ago when patients who could afford health care purchased it and those who couldn't afford health care were treated by doctors out of the goodness out of their hearts at discounted rates or for free.

My nine brothers and sisters and I, children of a factory worker, enjoyed better health care than my kids, children of a professional. Lesley has her head in the sand about the assembly line nature of today's medical practice in Canada. Doctors get so little for every patient they see that they must literally operate an assembly line of visits. There are exceptions but with a lot of doctors if you don't have something obvious or know what you have you may not get the right diagnosis It's hard to make a diagnosis of a complicated problem in 10 minutes. Some doctors do take extra time but the system is weighted against it.

I suspect Lesley has an inkling of the weaknesses in this vaunted system -and this would explain her anger and ignorance- but she is afraid to confront one of her cherished beliefs. Canadians think their vaunted health care system makes them superior to Americans.

(This is however the first time anyone has suggested I leave the country because I don't believe in the infallibility of socialized medicine. It underlines the hysteria of some of its proponents).

The essence of socialized, assembly line, medicine is that it is impersonal. The doctor gets a modest fee per visit and he must therefore run through as many patients as he possibly can.

[Zuzu]

Congratulations.

You have won the award for the creepiest, sickest post of this entire slimefest.

Don't ever take it down. Let it and all the nutball responses be linked as examples of the utter depravity of wingnuttery.

It's so bad even the other nutters have disowned you.

[Terry Gain]

More examination of the Lesley/Terry dispute is in order.

Lesley doesn't say how long her mother was in palliative care nor whether her mother left an inheritance. She's pleased that the system of professionals cared for her mother and good old Lesley didn't need to take a leave of absence or miss a pay cheque to care for mom.

You don't need full time care to administer periodic pain medication. When my mother -in-law was dying from heart failure my wife cared for her in our home over the last 18 months. Her care was supplemented by periodic visits from nurses.

How much money would Lesley have saved the state if she had cared for her mother?

Lesley acccuses me of being concerned about money. I am very concerned about money going to people who don't need it (like Halsey ) when there are thousands in need who get SFA from the state. I would much rather that money which is spent to pay the doctors' bills of people who would find another way if they had to pay a portion of the bills be spent on people who are really up against it.

Parents of children with disabilities receive precious little help from the government. They are no less deserving than the Lesleys but they aren't nearly as numerous and therefore they merit little consideration.

[Terry Gain]

Lesley said everything was covered by his mother's insurance.I thought private insurance was illegal in Canada.Posted by: Lala | Tuesday, October 09, 2007 at 10:07 PM

Lesley was referring to the government "insurance", which isn't insurance at all.

[Troll Feeder]

Oh, for the love of Pete!

Xanthippa (or whatever), Tax Analyst, Drew, and the rest of you nimrods who think I should be forced to pay for the health insurance of a family with a net worth (based on their reported home appreciation alone) north of $300,000 and who also think that health insurance is impossible to obtain without government assistance, please visit www.einsurance.com and get some quotes.

+1 to those who have pointed out that anyone who does not do all he can to ensure his family had good catastrophic insurance coverage is a BAD PARENT.

And +1 to the gentleman who explained to the slower of you out there that you have to get the insurance BEFORE you get damaged. Those of you who make arguments based on folks not being able to get insurance after the damage are straight up disingenuous. Or stupid. You certainly don't argue honestly.

[curvedbrain]

"It's so bad even the other nutters have disowned you."

Which other "nutters" have disowned Dan's post? Please cite the 'multitude'... and be sure to specify which are "nutters" and which are "drooling rightwing whackjobs".. because every good liberal knows from his hivemindset that there can be no such thing as a sincere, thoughtful, informed conservative

[curvedbrain]

"You people are pigs. Fuck you and your party. I hope you all rot in hell."

I think that's a fair summation of popular leftist sentiment.. in their own words no less. Unhinged and deranged, yet so.. so..much more

[Xanthippas]

Xanthippa (or whatever), Tax Analyst, Drew, and the rest of you nimrods who think I should be forced to pay for the health insurance of a family with a net worth (based on their reported home appreciation alone) north of $300,000...

Welcome to the Republican health care approach, wherein you are required to sell your home to obtain insurance. All hail the ownership society!

Oh wait, I already said that. This gets repetitive. Please try to pay attention.

[seekeronos]

Lefties don't know how to debate.

They either make declarations from on high, and if they are in a position of power, will beat you into submission if you don't toe the party line.

Kind of an interesting parallel to extremist forms of Islam.

"Off with yer heads, O Republican Kuffars!" say the jihadists at MoveOn.org and all their foamy-mouthed drooling socialist minions.

[Xanthippas]

Sorry Xanthippas, I've been in the health care business in this country for 19 years, and you're the one who doesn't know what you're talking about. Anyone who says the healthcare system in this country is bad, is a blithering idiot. If you can give me examples, in the U.S., where people have to wait 6 months for a coronary bypass graft, or be forced into quitting a bad habit (smoking), before he can get health care, then you'll have a point. If you can give me examples of people being turned away from emergency rooms who need care (hint - it's against federal law to do so), then you'll have a point.
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Welllll...my mom's been in the health care industry for near about 20 years, and she's presently underinsured as a result of my dad's inability to get decent insurance, even though-incredibly-he works for a health care provider. The irony! I will inform her post-haste that she is a "blithering idiot" for thinking something is slightly wrong with health care in our country, though I suspect that she will also think the same of you...as do I, as you might well imagine. Of course, I could just be making crap up, in which case I expect to find you sitting outside of my mom's house with a calculator figuring out how much the value of their home has appreciated.

[Xanthippas]

"Off with yer heads, O Republican Kuffars!" say the jihadists at MoveOn.org and all their foamy-mouthed drooling socialist minions.
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Indeed, teach us the meaning of "true" debate and rhetoric.

[curvedbrain]

"Welcome to the Republican health care approach, wherein you are required to sell your home to obtain insurance. All hail the ownership society!"

Well, if you've got $100's of thousands of dollars in home and business real estate equity and/or other assets or alternatives, I think not just Republicans, but most Americans of both parties would think that these folks need to pursue other options before making the US taxpayer the first resort for paying bills they could otherwise pay for themselves. What a crazy 'wingnut' idea, huh?

[seekeronos]

As for S-CHIP - in its original iteration, it was not a bad ida. But this business with S-CHIP2 was intended by the Democrat Congress (Dhimmi Cong) more to build a (rather effective) billyclub with which to beat the Administration with in what was almost a perfect PR and political move. And it almost worked!

Really! If only they had dragged out some Katrina victim, some poor black raggamuffin who with his serially-partnered mother with monumentally bad luck with "men" and not necessarily step-paternal sibings... still living in FEMA single-wide.

As someone else commented... they would have had not only the un-trumpable moppet card, but a full house (or is that a 'Nawlins royal flush?) "ace" of Race cards as well.

Nope! They picked the white kids of a rich family that was doing a bang up job of milking the system like good little (monied? what heresy is this??) socialists.

I mean, only a realy meanie-weanie Pwesident would dare to veto a bill that would only benefit poor starving moppets of reasonably funded businessmen (oops!) who have categorically failed to supply insurance available on the market for his kids (but lo! He spongeth off the government teat, even given his net worth).

Indeed, the way this S-CHIP2 was meant to fly through Dhimmi Cong, and damned if he did (veto and earn the everlasting censure of the Dhimmi Cong and MoveOn boneheads) and damned if he didn't (an unconscionable amount of money added to a program that really didn't need it).

But once again, the Dhimmicrats outsmarted themselves.

[M. Simon]

Dan,

Love the way you pile on!

What happens when some government junk scientist discovers that eating carrots is bad for you? Carrot rationing.

Or suppose they decide pot is good for you? You will be forced to consume your daily ration in front of a government agent. To keep health care costs down.

And I fuckin' hate pot prohibition.

We are on the edge of totalitarianism with this stupid government run medicine.

[AlphaLiberal]

Damn you conservatives are some mean assholes. So many falsehoods, so much arrogance, so much spite.

Con's keep shrieking "Dems are hiding behind a kid!" Although Nancy Pelosi went on FoxNews the very next morning, which is basically letting the Republican Party interview you on camera (wish she'd stop doing that). All kinds of Dems have been speaking out on the issue. That's not hiding, idiots.

Con's pretend to be pro-family, but only families that agree with you. Not families who DARE UTTER PUBLIC DISAGREEMENT WITH THE REPUBLICAN LINE. THEY MUST BE DESTROYED.

Look, you're stalking this family's home, interfering with his business, invading their private lives all because his kid was on a radio show, because he exercised his free speech. You want to "make an example" of the Frost family, acting like true thugs and bullies to silence others.

You're acting like brownshirts.

[AlphaLiberal]

And to Dan Riehl, has it occurred to you that Mr Frost is trying to make a go of a business? And for that you are mocking him? Aren't right-wingers all pro-business person? Or just successful ones?

There are lots of small business people in this country who don't have insurance. DAN RIEHL, WHY DO YOU HATE SMALL BUSINESS PEOPLE SO MUCH?

The stupid! It burns!

[curvedbrain]

"Not families who DARE UTTER PUBLIC DISAGREEMENT WITH THE REPUBLICAN LINE.THEY MUST BE DESTROYED."

Now here we have a classic problem with the truth. Libs say the conservatives are trying to "destroy" the Frost family, while in reality, they only raised legit questions about the Frost's claims, claims which they chose to push front and center on the public political stage with their children. No 'destruction'. No 'attacks'. Just legitimate questions which should have been raised by the MSM. No doubt those like AlphaLib, while demonstrably lying their asses off, prefer to see themselves as noble truth tellers. Whatever floats their boat, I suppose.

[curvedbrain]

"And to Dan Riehl, has it occurred to you that Mr Frost is trying to make a go of a business?"

He's done quite well in real estate investments. Perhaps he should take some of his hundreds of thousands of dollars in equity from those real estate investments and pay his own insurance. Or get a better job given his and his wife's educational background. Or * shudder * take a second job. Judging from his pic, he seems to have many working years ahead of him.