Update On Goose Creek Indictments

Michelle Malkin has a new round up on the Goose Creek indictments. A couple of interesting items from my reading around. The two may soon be transferred to a Navy brig and a remote controlled motorboat was seized in one of the raids. Quite possibly it was just a toy bought for a younger brother, unfortunately, even innocent items can raise questions in this type of investigation.

Adding to their anxiety was a quote in the Charleston newspaper Saturday from the local sheriff, predicting Megahed and fellow student Ahmed Mohamed soon will be moved from this jail in Berkeley County to the brig on the nearby Naval complex. The Megaheds know the brig is used to hold prisoners the president has deemed "enemy combatants."

Samir Megahed said he told the FBI to go in his house "and look around, and if you find something, take it." He said FBI agents seized a $19 remote-control boat Youssef bought at Wal-Mart for his younger brother, Yassien.

See Michelle for more.

Comments

[seekeronos]

No, it goes more like this:

X is a member of Y group

Y group has a subset of Y, Y1, which consistently conducts and espouses the conduct of A type crimes.

Because there is an intermingling of members of Y and Y1 and other subsets of Y amongst each other, members of Y group should be watched a little more closely than other major groups.

Therefore, X, because of his affiliation with Y group, should be monitored to ascertain his links, if any, to the Y1 subset.

[charles martel]

kumbayah my lord, kumbayah,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

does anyone know the definition of kumbayah? is it a real word in the dictionary?

or just something made up by those silly drug addled hippy godbotherers in the time of their frivolous youth?

in my frivolous youth there was something quite similar i do believe,

it went "gabba gabba hey ho let's go" seems much more fun to me, and just as intellectually stimulating

and also had a much better beat cause you could "dance" to it

[nowingker]

Because there is an intermingling of members of Y and Y1 and other subsets of Y amongst each other, members of Y group should be watched a little more closely than other major groups.

Therefore, X, because of his affiliation with Y group, should be monitored to ascertain his links, if any, to the Y1 subset.

--------------------------------------------------------

Do you do this with all groups? Do we need to spy on all blacks and hispanics because they make up the vast majority of criminal gang members,and commit the vast majority of violent crime? How about Italians? They are still running what's left of the mob in NY and NJ, do we need to tap the phones of all Italian Americans just in case? What about animal rights activists? A tiny minority of them are more or less bat shit crazy, does that mean I am on the monitoring list if I ever gave any money to an animal rights organization?

It is a very simple and fundamental rule of our system: probable cause.

You need probable cause in the form of EVIDENCE that someone may be guilty of or complicit in a criminal enterprise and their religion, ethnicity or race is NOT and never was or should be considered 'evidence' in that vein.

[charles martel]

well what do you know?

http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a980911a.html

the intertubes are pretty amazing!

[jj]

Charles Martel, thank you for saving the Western World, even though it allowed such fools as chris/BobinStamford/Kelvin/YYY and sundry other idiots to develope. A sad state of affairs that might need your intervention again, I'm afraid. This time I suggest a widespread deportation to Islamic lands, both for the Islamists and their allies, the 'libruls'.

j/k guys, except for chris/BobinStamford. I would kick his ass all the way over there for free. LOL!

[BobInStamford]

Excellent reasoning! Did you 'develope' it while pondering the meaning of justice in that CONSTITUTIONAL LAW class or while prepping for those oh-so-tricky LSATs?

[seekeronos]

"--- Do you do this with all groups? Do we need to spy on all... ---"

Well, to varying degrees, yes.

It's called... hold yer breath now... try not to work up a sweat... ok, here goes:

"PROFILING".

Ach, I knew some of y'all wouldn't want to hear that particular dirty word, but that's EXACTLY what needs to be done, especially when you have a notable sub-group of a major group that professes violence, the creation of massive public disorder, overthrow of the government (which, btw, is exactly what the jihadists and other cell groups in this nation are after, in the long run - so that they may establish Sharia law).

So yes, if a particular sub-group of a major group is conducting widespread illegal activity, then we should watch them like a hawk watches its prey.

And then pounce upon them when the probably cause does surface.

Same goes for the illegal aliens sneaking in over the border - a good many of them are otherwise honest, hardworking folks looking for something better, but a good many of them are also drug runners, gun runners, pimps and whores, and gangsters, some of which are particularly notorious for their brutality to innocent bystanders, such as the Mara Salvatrucha, or MS-13.

The dissatisfied folks in the American Black population are actually much more well behaved than they were a generation or so ago, as one hardly hears anything out of terror groups like the Black Panthers, the Zulu Nation, or the Five Percenters -- although, the FBI might have them on their watch list. Same goes for Aryan Nations, Stormfronters, National Alliance, the KKK, and various and sundry other white supremacist groups.

PETA eco-freaks? So long as they restrict their antics to hiring attractive models (as it seems the average PETA activist is generally not very shapely, must be that vegetarian diet) to parade around in alluring swim attire, and not resort to blowing up peoples' Hummers, then fine. But the moment they start pretending their ELFs or ALFs, and start using scorched earth tactics (rather ironically) to make their point, or start throwing buckets of red paint on little old ladies wearing furs, then they've crossed the line.

Yes... trust, but verify. Live at peace with your neighbour if possible, but be vigilant.

And for those groups whose values are TRULY at odds with the public safety of Americans (such as the MS-13ers and Al-Q cells)... they need to be either deported, or treated as enemy combatants as depending upon the nature of their activities when they are eventually found out.

[nowingker]

So tell me, Seek, do you honest to god read the comments from this kid's father and believe they are a terrorist cell?

Do you really think these two guys are terrorists, based on what has been made public? That they were transporting this 'explosive material' as part of a terrorist plot?

I don't doubt the are guilty of transporting 'explosive material' across state lines w/out a permit. I'm a little curious as to why doing that, absent any crimnial motive or evidence of a criminal/terrorists plot, should get ANYONE 20 years in federal prison.

If they were transporting explosive material across state lines without a permit and that is their ONLY crime, nothing beyond what they were indicted for....no terrorist ties, no terrorist plot, no terrorist cell, do you truly believe they need prison time?

[Robert]

bloodgrage bob,
Quit getting your panties in a bunch over 9/11.
The President of the United States on 9/11/2001 didn't care enough about it*, so why should anyone else?

*was against the creation of the 911 Commission (before he was for it--because he's so resolute and doesn't govern by polls--LOL), underfunded it, stonewalled it, and gave Condi a promotion after she lied to it.

[Robert]

seek,
I, for one, support the profiling of white, right-wing Christians since they've already attacked Americans with terrorist actions. (see Rudolph and McVeigh).

[seekeronos]

For Robert:

"--- I, for one, support the profiling of white, right-wing Christians since they've already attacked Americans with terrorist actions. (see Rudolph and McVeigh). ---"

Yup, I saw this one coming a kilometer and a half away.

Well, for one... McVeigh certainly falls under the so-called "Christian Identity" movement (although he claims not to completely identify with their particular set of twisted beliefs). But as for "Christian Identity", while they claim to be Christian, are about as far removed from being followers of Christ as the Islamists are. Some of the poison that spews from the pulpit of "Reverend" Peter J. Peters and "reverend" Fred Phelps (the godhatesfags.com guy)is just as vile as anything coming from the pulpits of the Wahabbist and Salafist imams. In fact, I'll call them heretics, just as the Bible calls them. They've went and turned the Gospel of Salvation on its ears, perversely twisting Scripture for their own selfish ends.

As for Rudolph, he and his "army of God" are equally abominable as the murderers who practice their wicked craft in the abortion mills of this nation.

Point is: Don't do evil to fight evil. God is more than capable of getting His vengeance against evildoers without us usurping His role.

And finally, yes - I think those heretical "christians" who do evil to fight what they see as evil should be profiled and monitored as well.

However: I think that the incidence of these heretics endangering the Republic is far less than that of the menace of Islam, with a sizeable fraction of its billion-plus followers who embrace the murderous cult of jihad.

But there is also the Christianity, the fundamental, "right wing" old time religion you fear:

I do recommend that you go and see for yourself what a true, Bible-believing, Christ-following, Holy Spirit led Christian Church is about -- dying not for false god, but rather, dying to their own selfishness and their own pride, because they have called upon Christ to redeem them, and as redeemed servants of God, they practice also His love.

Ya know, visiting the elderly in nursing homes. Helping out at homeless shelters. Spending time with foster kids displaced children and being big brothers and sisters, and godly examples to them. Preaching the Words of Salvation out on the street corners to the lost and afflicted, and to the wealthy and comforted as well, that they too, might call upon the One True Saviour of all humankind.

A good place to look is at any church with the words "independent baptist" or "bible church" somewhere in the name to start. Not that Baptists have a solid lock on salvation, but because a good number of them are pretty solid and earnestly seeking to follow Jesus - and there is a good chance that there is one near you, if you live in the USA.

Better still, get a Bible (King James, preferably) and start reading it - start with the Book of Romans, good stuff. That's what Christianity is about, not murdering baby killers or blowing up gov't buildings.

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For Nowings:

I can't say that I've kept much interest in the SC fireworks boys. Although, from what I have read, I am not entirely convinced that they are "terrorists". Maybe just very, very ignorant individuals who failed to secure the proper permits. However, the list of connections to this or that Islamic group doesn't paint a very rosy picture either. We will have to see if that materializes into a solid piece from which to probe those connections.

As has been noted in months past, if we are dealing with a hard core family of jihadists, then they are likely to be skilled in practicing al-Taqqiya as well (which is artful deception as permitted by Hadiths to allow Muslims to conceal their intentions to spread Islam via Jihad when caught by non-Islamic authorities)

We have to sadly allow for the prospect that Al-Q has learned a thing or three in the past 6 years since 9/11/2001, that some improvement in burying their moles and sleeper operatives has been far and away better than a bunch of pilots with dodgy credentials going to US flight schools.

Engineering students - IIRC that is what the Megahed boys are - are well represented by Arab Muslims, especially Saudis and other Gulf Arabs. What works better is that these boys give the appearance of being "all-American", but had been turned in recent years by the jihadists?

Boring, bland, everyday engineering students - who know the potentials of the exact sort of explosives they were carrying, as opposed to the comparatively less votaile compound used in model rockets or even fireworks (and FW are heavily regulated, if I am not mistaken).

So, yes, there are a lot of questions, and a lot of things that need to be pinned down. Too many things that indicate that these were not just an ordinary pair of college kids/engineering goofing around to go blow up a few M-80s out in a vacant McMansion construction lot on a long weekend, or trying to reproduce Goddard's rocket experiments.

The trouble is, the Megahed boys (and increasingly, their father) are at the heart of it, and may well be yet found guilty.

But, if this is just a matter of too many odd occurrences converging, and really, it was only as simple as these two kids transporting a copious amount of explosive material w/o a proper license, then they should face the penalty for that particular offense, and not face an unknown amount of time in the Jose Padilla Suite of the "enemy combatant brig".

However, if the FBI has found credible evidence or probable cause that they are linked to a terrorist cell, then let the FBI do its job. If these boys and their father are innocent, that will bear itself out through the trial.

If I am not mistaken, transporting explosive material across state lines indeed falls under federal jurisdiction, and so then, what is the USC section and title regarding the criminality and (if referenced) penalty for the same? (Not being snarky here - I'd like to know since this has come up).

And the profiling thing - yes, if the Megahed boys had been the "O'Malley boys", same bat-channel, same bat-time... then you are probably right, it might not have received anywhere near the press time this has already. But I do think it would have garnered nearly the same amount of scrutiny against the would-be O'Malleys.

And as you asked, _WHY_ were they carting around so much boom powder in their vehicle?

Not for nothing, but moving such a (reportedly large) amount of explosives without a license already implies a motive, not to mention just mere liability for neglecting to file the correct papers with the state dept. of transport, much less securing a private and licensed carrier to move that stuff.

Bottom line: if you are going to do something that risky, why not take the time and precaution to make sure that everything is covered under the scope of law?