Grow Up, Or Grow A Spine?

Classic liberalism on several levels - Josh Marshall on Ahmadinejad's desired visit to Ground Zero. I should have went with or grow a set, given Marshall's asterisk - but he's wrong there, too, unless spine now connotes gender somehow.

Grow Up

Am I the only one embarrassed by the dingbat brouhaha over Iranian President Ahmadinejad's attempt to visit Ground Zero to lay a wreath? Given relations between our countries I could see denying him a visa, but as long as we're hosting the UN that's not an option.

So, Marshall can see denying him a Visa, but as the UN overrides a uniquely American identity in a liberal world view, our sovereign soil, hallowed or not, has no particular meaning. If he's here for the UN, heck, it's his country, too, I suppose. Were I a liberal, I might say Marshall has serious boundary issues.

So what's the problem exactly? Presumably we can be frank enough to acknowledge that the real issue here is that while Ahmadinejad is not Arab to most of us he looks pretty Arab. And he is Muslim certainly -- and pretty up in arms about it at that. And we officially don't like him. And we classify the country he runs as a state sponsor of terrorism. So even though he has absolutely nothing to do with 9/11, when you put all these key facts together, he might as well have done it himself. And what business does anyone with the blood of the victims of 9/11 on his hands have going to Ground Zero?

That's basically it and don't tell me it's not.

See Ahmadinejad's letter touching on the subject, though even that likely isn't enough for Marshall. He has to see this as racist, or Islamophobic given his liberal bent. And why does he suggest those opposed to the visit need to grow up? Since when are things like honor, dignity and reverence immature? Sure, you can make it sound so - sports vernacular comes in handy for that. Not in our house, dog. You don't come in here disrespecting us. But even that's more appealing to me than Marhsall's empty moral equivalence wherein supporting terrorism doesn't matter outside of any individual act. I guess those soldiers killed in Iraq by Iranian bombs just don't matter a lick to Marshall.

But I don't even want to get into making that argument. The reality is, anyone who has any sense of pride in America as the truly unique and majestic nation that it is and can appreciate the blow we suffered on 9/11, combined with Ahmadinejad's dedication to a like-minded form of Islamic extremism that caused that tragedy, doesn't need to do a great deal of thinking to realize Ahmadinejad's intended Ground Zero visit was, in a word, wrong.

And Marshall playing the apologist for a radical Islamic fundamentalist who wishes this country nothing but harm is wrong, too. But as he's liberal, I suppose he doesn't have much choice. In its current form, American liberalism is weak, amoral and just about as un-American as you can get.

Comments

[seekeronos]

Semantics, I reckon... but drivel such as Josh Marshall's should not be elevated to a place of prestige by referring to it as "Classic Liberalism". That would put this fellow on a par with Voltaire or Adam Smith, or more recently, Friedrich von Hayek.

Classic Moonbattery, certainly. Or perhaps "typical leftist vomit-inducing apologia for Islamist revolutionariess" might sting better.

Seems to work better than syrup of ipecac.

[cas6039]

What about the direct link between the Iranians, and the truck bomb that killed 19 and wounded many more at the Khobar Towers in Saudi Arabia in 1996? Is there any reason to forgive the Iranians AS A COUNTRY for that atrocity? Or is Ahmadinejad NOT coming to NYC serving in his capacity as "Iranian President Ahmadinejad" ? Either way, Josh Marshall is WRONG, and the NYC Chief of Police is RIGHT.

[Observer]

The media has been flip flopping all day about whether or not ImaDamnNutJob is going to visit ground zero or not.

Some even suggest that he will go despite denials to the fact.

From my viewpoint I have to agree with those who say the buildings in NY should empty of people if any one gets a whiff of his possible movement in that direction during his visit and create a wall of human shields that won't let him get within a couple of blocks of the place.

[TC@LeatherPenguin]

I can easily understand Marshall's "they all look alike, right?" belief that THAT is behind the outcry against Imwearingadinnerjacket. After all, for the average lefty blogger, that rationale is par for the course.
http://exurbanleague.com/2007/09/20/they-all-look-alike-anyway.aspx

[Pat]

So Marshall thinks that a visa to visit the UN confers the right to go anywhere you want in the entire country? If that's the case, I cannot think of a better justification for immediately expelling the UN from American soil. Let it move to Paris or Brussels.

[brian]

Dan -

See, you aren't looking at it with enough nuance. See, our war in Iraq is illegal, so it's really Bush's fault that any Americans have died there, regardless of who made or planted the weapons.

Ahmadinejad didn't have a choice, really. It's his culture.

Listen to imbeciles like Marshall long enough, and you learn to predict their every rationalization.

P.S. - why does it amuse me that Mozilla's spell-checker offers "Shadiness" as the first suggestion for correcting the Iranian "President"'s name?

[madmatt]

There was not a single iranian on the plane, why shouldn't he be allowed to come and condemn terrorism? We let Bush's Saudi boyfriend bandar visit and 15 of 19 were saudis...where was the outrage then you hypocrite?

[TC@LeatherPenguin]

madmatt? The House of Saud ranked a close second on the Osama hit list at the time (though they've been usurped by Pakistan in the current standings). Burning them back then would have been just stupid, like your equivocation. Iran is currently helping kill Americans by providing munitions like IEDs to attempt to keep the chaos going in Baghdad, Basra, etc.

For all their double-dealing, the Saudis probably are more spooked than even Israel by the thought of that kook having a nuke. Iran knows that Israel will retaliate, but slipping a bomb to some jihadi and sending him off to take out Riyahd is something the Sauds have to be freaking out about.

[brian]

matt - given that Ahmadinejad has never condemned terrorism, won't condemn terrorism, and said that muslims weren't responsible for 9/11, why should we let him even set foot in our country?

The man is a terrorist supporter, a terrorist financier, a terrorist trainer, a terrorist enabler, and if historical records are accurate, a terrorist.

The fact that he is an appointed leader of a sovereign nation ought not grant him any respect here.

Here's a question for you matt - if you self-detonate in a market in Riyadh, are you acting on behalf of the government of the United States? Or are you insinuating that the 9/11 attacks were orchestrated and conducted at the behest of the Saudi government?

[TC@LeatherPenguin]

brian, I agree with you, but apropos my profession, the editor in me has a minor quibble: Iran is NOT a "sovereign nation" by any stretch of the imagination that such designation implies in modern times.

It is a "theocracy," or, in Iran's constitution's own words, "an Islamic Republic," based in principles established in the 12th Century, and re-affirmed upon Kuhmeyni's coup. The Leader--until and unless there is a second, secular revolution--will always be an Ayatollah.

[dumbblonde]

"We let Bush's Saudi boyfriend bandar visit and 15 of 19 were saudis...where was the outrage then you hypocrite?"

Where was the outrage? Right here. Guilty.

[tommo]

Your blind hatred or Ahmadinejad, (and I'll bet you hate Chaves as well) stems from falling for The Bush Crime Family spin. If you don't realize the every single word that comes out of the mouth of our filty, corrupt, "current occupant" is a lie, you are a fool or one of their whores.

Not only a compulsive liar, Bush is ignorant and uncaring as to consequences and cultures, who recklessly stirred the pot of chaos in that area of the world and wound up commiting numerous war crimes, endangering the national security of the United States and creating more anti-American terrorists all around the globe. He also will be remembered as the president who, in the name of bringing democracy to the world, trampled it at home.

Stop drinking the kool-aid.

[bloodrage bob]

ironymeter pegging off the scale here. the same idiot that typed in "bush crime family" accuses others of "hating". amazing stuff. can only be coming from nitwit liberals!

[Supernintendo Chalmers (who isn't Islamollamabob)]

Poor bloodrage boob.

Instead of disputing tommo's assertions, he uses his knee-jerk "nitwit liberals" comment, a well-worn and sparkling gem of pith.

SQWACK Nit wit liberal SQWACK

[bloodrage bob]

poor superintendo sockpuppet. so frail. so delicate. too beautiful for this world, really. one pictures blanche dubois, or aunt pittypat, maybe, clutching their throats in a fit of the vapors at having to confront such "vulguh" language about the idiot liberals. "well, ah NEVvuh! fetch me anuthhuh mint julep, mammy, whoan't yew?"

well! never let it be said bloodrage bob isn't happy to try and help the ladies out! "shit-for-brains liberals"? "unpatriotic liberals"? "america-hating, profoundly stupid, too gutless to do any reading on their own" liberals?

do any of *those* work for you, supt. socky?

[templar knight]

Chalmers, anyone who likes Ahmadawhackjob and Chavez is a nitwit. What else is there to say? Jeebus, man, you aren't as stupid as tommo, are you?

[TC@LeatherPenguin]

Dear "tommo" and "bloodrage bob":
I'll give either of you five thousand words, but you can't use "Halliburton", or similar Bushhitler stuff.

You write one thought that doesn't come from Alex Jones's loins, and I will toss it up.

But be prepared for being cross-examined hard enough to make your bleached butthole blink.

[TC@LeatherPenguin]

really, I spend most of my time messing with members of Red Sox Nation.

You dolts are Grapefruit Leaque rejects.

[LOL]

I love how wingers will forever confuse outrage with courage. Criticizing Ahmadinejad from behind your keyboard is not courage Dan. Why are you calling someone spineless or ball-less for saying something you disagree with? It has nothing to do with courage, and stop pretending that you have exercised any in your life.

[dumbblonde]

"Stop drinking the kool-aid."

No problem there. It appears you already finished it :)

Gosh, what happened to this thread? It's like all the moonbats descended at once. I can't even find an statement rational enough to argue with.

[seekeronos]

"--- and I'll bet you hate Chaves as well... ---"

If you mean Hugo Chavez, President of (waiting for the official name change: "the Socialist People's Republic of") Venezuela...

...no, *I* don't hate him personally. But I think he's another socialist blowhard, cut from the same cloth as either of the Clintons... who has drunk a wee bit too much of his own red Kool-Aid, and his people are starting to suffer for it.

Anybody who can (constitutionally?) tweak themselves to be El Presidente for Life is probably a guy who is dangerous to keep around.

Like Bush or lump him, his ticket was punched in Nov. 2004, and he'll have to get off the ride come 20 Jan. 2009.

Term Limits: Making American life great since 1948.

[TC@LeatherPenguin]

I'm waiting for a reply.
C'mon, man up, you punks.

[gs brown]

The Iranian head of state should have been granted his request to place a wreath at the Twin Towers site in NYC on behalf of his country. Denial of the request by local politicos for short-term political purposes is puerile. Both the Iranian head of state & the Mayor of Tehran condemned the attacks of 9/11 at the time & sent condolences to the Mayor of NY, along with most of the world's leaders. I think much of the American Republican political class is afraid of Iran, hence the need to demonize it preparatory to an unprovoked attack on it.

[Brett]

The left long ago substituted ridicule for debate. It is fun, but it is not thought.

[TC@LeatherPenguin]

gs brown: "Denial of the request by local politicos for short-term political purposes is puerile."

Which is it: deaf, dumb, or blind? Bloomie can't be re-elected, so your "short term political purposes" is a crock of crap. Besides, Bloomie ducked the whole damn question and left the decision up to NYPD. PC Ray Kelly knew that if that Ahmadinnerjacket character came withing five city blocks of the Pit he'd have a riot on his hands, and his own cops would be conflicted about whether to quell it, or join in. FDNY would show up en masse, looking for the little bastard's blood.

[bloodrage bob]

GOLly, tc, you sure talk like a real tough bad dude hardass. are you another one of them legendary internet "navy seals" i've been reading so much about? ("then, after i received my *second* congressional medal ...")

you go ahead on and go back to telling yourself what a tough guy you are, sonny. also, why is it that you're so familiar with "bleached assholes"? is this something you've been doing for awhile? did you learn that from the grapefruit league (you say you've been) terrorizing?

have someone smart read you what i write, nitwit. i'm on the *opposite side* of the ideological aisle form "tommo". chances are, you'd probably agree with my ideas, if you bothered to sound them out correctly. what IS IT with new yorkers? why do they think living in a filthy, overpriced, crowded city automatically makes them really smart tough guys? do y'all think that "i walked past that restaurant where the mob guys got whacked" makes you a mafiosi bad dude? do you figure that "i drove through harlem once" makes you a ninja? "been past columbia on the subway on the way to a yankees game" makes you an ivy-leaguer? "seeing donald trump on the street once" makes you connected?

i got your alex jones, pal. right HERE.

[TC@LeatherPenguin]

Heh, you're a funny one, "bloodrage bob." And, with an internet monicker like yours, you're obviously a piece of work that should be approached with trepidation; a man one must *reckon* with, whilst meandering about in the interweb tubes.

"do y'all think that "i walked past that restaurant where the mob guys got whacked" makes you a mafiosi bad dude?"

If you are referring to the Sparks/Castellano hit, well no, walking past the joint has not yet made me a "mafioso." Attending Mr. Bilotti's wake and funeral, out of respect for the man and his family--especially his two sons with whom I attended school--also did nothing to help me earn my bones. It did, however, in addition to other pieces of my life, put me in a position where I can pick up a phone and make damn near anything causing me nuisance to get shoved under a bus.

You, sir, can blow me. And I can be found quite easily, if you wish to consummate the relationship. A quick visit to WHOIS will point you right to my front door. C'mon by sometime, skippy.

See, that's the difference between you and me: I don't hide behind some hackneyed "handle." I'm out here LIVE; 24/7/365. So drop on by, tough guy.

[bloodrage bob]

wow! you really ARE an internet mafia tough guy! what're the freakin' ODDS?!?

man oh man, i'm in for it now. gotten tangled up with a genuine new york mafioso badass, who - unlike most mafia guys - who reads the web a lot and mentions his ability to "get guys thrown under a bus" right there on the web where anyone, even the feds, can see it and use it as evidence against them. because everyone knows that's what the mob does, nowdays: they get involved in internet disputes. uh-huh.

well, i better sign off now - wouldn't want you to "make just one phone call". good luck with that reading comprehension thing, BTW, tough guy: one thing you neglected to mention in your dark and scary post was that YOU screwed up by including me with "tommo". or were you just trying to cover your embarrassment?

ok, tc, now you go. tell me about how many guns you own; what a fine shot you are, etc etc.

[TC@LeatherPenguin]

mentions his ability to "get guys thrown under a bus" right there on the web where anyone, even the feds, can see it and use it as evidence against them.

Use it for what, pray tell?

Besides the local bentnosers, I'm on a first name basis with the local DA, two police precinct captains, our borough president, and my local member of Congress....

You think I give a rat's ass about some frickin' fed reading something on the Interweb?

[R Conners]

"And what business does anyone with the blood of the victims of 9/11 on his hands have going to Ground Zero?"

Wait a minute, I thought it was Saddam who was the one who was responsiable for 9-11. Isn't that what we murdered him for?

[bloodrage bob]

so let's recap, tc. you're tight with the mob, because - although it's not like you're claiming you're made, or anything - you (say you) "went to school with a mobster's kid", and (you say you) can get said mobster to do what you say just by asking. because everyone knows that to a mob guy, *nothing* is more sacred than the bonds of "some guy my kid went to school with wants me to risk imprisonment by committing a crime for free".

THEN, not only that, you also mention tightness with the DA, the cops, congressmen .... wow. musta been some school you went to, huh? was it located at toied and toity-toied?

and of course ALL these bigshots are just waiting for you to give the word to whack "some guy on the web". you're quite a guy, tc. not a big enough man to admit *you* screwed the pooch by reading my post wrong; not big enough to admit *you* hadda shoot off your big mouth even though you had not one clue what you were talking about ... but big enough to have DA's, cops, and mafiosis waiting for your command. geez. do you even READ the stuff you type in? why stop at DA's and cops? why not claim affiliation with the NSA? you could jazz it up, make it mysterious. you could say "i knows guys what woik for a tree-letter agency, see?" and then i'd be stuck not knowing if it was the tva; or the fda; or what. you couldda BOYNED me!

i just hope to god you don't jump into the car to "get" me, tc. like that chick? the one who wore diapers to save herself time on potty breaks? LOL. i'll let you get back to your (evidently extremely-well-developed) fantasy life, tc. best of luck to youse.

[seekeronos]

Hmmmm. This popcorn's real good. ;)

[TC@LeatherPenguin]

"wow. musta been some school you went to, huh? was it located at toied and toity-toied?"

Two schools, actually. Msgr. Farrell (politicians; lawyers; cops), and New Dorp High (or as we liked to call it: "Goomba U.").

Brooklyn (I'm gathering that's what "toied and toity-toied" refers to) is passe. Shaolin is where the action is.

Ands the phone call wouldn't be sent to the old man; the next generation has taken the reins. Most of the Daddies who didn't get indicted are busy sunning themselves in Boca.

[TC@LeatherPenguin]

Look, he of the scary handle, I ain't bragging about "being big" or "tight"; I'm just saying that here on Staten Island, I know players on either side of the aisle. If you're involved in the community I gew up in, it's pretty hard to avoid it. It's just a natural fact of life on the Rock.

You, however, could not ever possibly understand that fact.

I didn't misread anything; you and the other mook sounded like potzers and I called you BOTH out. Youj're the only one who ended up with your knickers in a twist while the sand came spilling from your vagina.

[TC@LeatherPenguin]

I drop chunks of punks like you when I void my bowels.