Update Bumped: South Carolina Two Charged With Felonies

Update: Well, one's a "chanter," FWIW.

"He was in possession of pipe bombs, and materials used to make other bombs," said 9th Circuit Solicitor Scarlett Wilson.

During the bond hearing, Megahed appeared calm while Mohamed seemed agitated and was seen chanting. One unanswered question, what were the pair doing in Goose Creek?

Also a note: Ace discusses the pipe bomb verbiage. I emailed to say I don't disagree - but there were liquid explosives involved. Could be a "hobby rocket" deal, or a Molotov cocktail like device, I guess.

Update: So, are you just happy to see me? Or is that a pipe bomb in your trunk? And don't ask me to explain it, ask the AP, it's their story.

Meanwhile, CAIR insists if their names had been Joe Bob and Bubba, they would have gotten off with a speeding ticket - calling it racial profiling.

MONCKS CORNER, S.C. (AP) -- Authorities say two Middle Eastern men arrested near a Navy base had several pipe bombs in their car.

According to an affidavit with his arrest warrant, Mohamed admitted he made the pipe bombs from items he bought at Wal-Mart.

Defense attorney Dennis Rhoad says Mohamed and Megahed have a reason for having the devices, but he declined to comment further during their bond hearing.

2nd link:

Ahmed Bedier, the executive director of a civil rights organization for Muslims in Tampa, criticized the arrest as racial profiling, an accusation South Carolina police refuted.

"Definitely this is not related to terrorism," said Bedier, of the Council on American-Islamic Relations.

"Had these been two good ol' boys from South Carolina driving through and speeding -- and even if they did have some fireworks -- nobody would have been arrested," Bedier said.

Update: WIStv

University officials say both 24-year-old Ahmed Abda Sherf Mohamed and 21-year-old Yousef Samir Megahed were in good standing.

Mohamed, who is from Kuwait, is a graduate student in civil engineering. He earned his undergraduate degree in Cairo.

Megahed is an undergraduate who is an Egyptian who has permanent residency status.

Update: It'll be interesting to see what John Little, who knows the rocket angle, has to say about this: See Allah and also Little for more.

In the vehicle, investigators say they found potassium chlorate and sugar, which when combined with a catalyst create what has been dubbed "instant fire" releasing heat, flames and smoke in a spectacular fashion. As a result, they are used in making fireworks and as a fuel for model rockets.

In addition a can of gasoline, PVC pipe, four hobby store brand rocket launchers and hobby store brand fuses were found, investigators said. The four PVC pipes contained an unknown substance. Also taken into evidence was a laptop computer, a GPS unit and Trac cellular telephones. The laptop computer was sent to the FBI lab at Quantico for analysis.

John Little has an update - FBI results on explosives due back in a day, or two.

According to the latest, one of the young men arrested in South Carolina was from Egypt and the other from Kuwait, and they could be looking at from 2 - 15 years. No word on any potential immigration charges. But drivers might want to make a note, it probably isn't a good idea to be speeding with a laptop computer and some other suspicious items in your trunk, especially when you're about ten miles away from two Nuclear Submarines. According to a reader, they are training vessels: (Moored Training Ships, MTSs), for the Naval Nuclear Power Training Unit at Charleston. Below is the description via Google Earth. The site is 12 miles from where they were arrested and in the direction from which they were driving.

Here is a very well guarded nuclear sub base up the Cooper River, north of Charleston SC. I found these subs up close during a Waverunner trip down the Cooper. I rode a bit too close to them, and was turned away by gunboats in the river, on guard 24/7. They are teeny fron this perspective, but when you are in the river with them... they are huge!!!! They are painted black, and are at the dock. There are two of them. You will also see the gunboats in the river, and the HUGE dockside hangar, that they are housed in at times. Hope you like this... and yes.. it must be a deep river!!!

If convicted of the charges, Youseff Megahed, 21, and Ahmed Mohamed, 24, could face between 2 to 15 years in prison.

DeWitt said the men were pulled over Saturday night on U.S. Highway 176 while driving more than 60 mph in a 45-mph zone. When an officer approached the car, he saw one of them men fold a laptop computer, which the officer believed was suspicious, DeWitt said.

The officer asked them if he could search the car, which the men agreed to. When he asked if there was anything in the car he should know about, the men said there were fireworks in the trunk.

Comments

[nowingker]

DeWitt said the men were pulled over Saturday night on U.S. Highway 176 while driving more than 60 mph in a 45-mph zone. When an officer approached the car, he saw one of them men fold a laptop computer, which the officer believed was suspicious, DeWitt said.

The officer asked them if he could search the car, which the men agreed to. When he asked if there was anything in the car he should know about, the men said there were fireworks in the trunk.

------------------------------------------------------------

Yeah, sounds suspicious.

He closed his laptop!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

They voluntarily agreed to a search!!!!!!!!!

This police department should be sued for wrongful prosecution.

I predict that quietly as a little bird either a judge will dismiss the charges or they will plead guilty to some kind of stupid misdemeanor of having illegal fireworks.

What a travesy, and a double travestly that Dan and his ilk continue to feed the flames of paranoia and racism.

PS, previous reports have said both men were in the country legally.

Somewhere, Bin Laden is laughing at us.

[nowingker]

Can someone explain to me how firecrackers are a threat to a nuclear submarine?

[Dan Riehl]

how firecrackers are a threat to a nuclear submarine?

I didn't see anyone say they were. Were the small rocket engines and PVC? Probably not much of a threat either, really. But also probably not good items to be carrying near the facility.

[nowingker]

Oh for goodness sake, they weren't stopped by military police right outside of the base or taking pictures of the base. If that was the case, then there would be reasonable grounds to at least suspect them of being up to no good.

They were stopped for speeding going the opposite direction of the base.

Does that mean if I get stopped for speeding near a military installation I should automatically be assumed to be a potential terorist if I have a lap top computer and some fireworks in my trunk?

WTF is wrong with you?

[Dan Riehl]

NOwinger, you're about to be ignored. 1) I haven't claimed they were terrorists 2) You have apparently no appreciation for what "could be" a fairly well planned probe - emphasis on "could be" and 3) all I am doing is putting all the facts out there. You're the one jumpin g to conclusions. I'm more miffed that we can find nuke subs on Google Earth, for instance. WHich is partly why I made the point. Now, I'll leave you to your delusions.

[IreneFingIrene]

I'm getting the same feeling that I had with the ghetto cell phone business guys arrested in Michigan.

I have a feeling the charges will be dropped: the whole fireworks or bomb, the voluntary search and admission of fireworks, the smiling mugshots, the fact that the authorities are not saying anything about terrorism or have said it is not related, the "suspicious" closing of a laptop (which could have been porn, torrents, or anything).

[nowingker]

1) No, Dan, but you have insinuated and implied it, smearing by implication, top toop of the right wingers.

2) It 'could be' nothing at all, they 'could be' drug dealers, porn pirates or college kids on a trip. Insinuating the most salicious fear mongering possibility, again, is part and parcel of the right wing.

3) When it comes out that the 'explosive' devices were indeed fireworks and the charges are dimissed or the kids plead to some misdemeanor charge and pay a fine there will be no apology from you or the rest of the winger blogs, there will, instead be hundreds of posts and comments about how it was a DRY RUN, they are TESTING OUR DEFENSES, the FBI IS COVERING IT UP, the MSM IS COVERING IT UP. THEY WERE TERRORISTS!!!!!!!!!

4) I will be back to gloat over this incident when the truth comes out and it shows, again, the wingers to be the igorant, racist fools they are.

[Purple Avenger]

You don't get charged with a felony for 15 over and having "fireworks". Those "fireworks" had to be something pretty special.

[PS]

4) I will be back to gloat over this incident when the truth comes out and it shows, again, the wingers to be the igorant, racist fools they are.

Posted by: nowingker | Monday, August 06, 2007 at 01:52 PM

Snicker Snort Snort Via AP

*** UPDATE: Surprise, surprise. It wasn't "just fireworks," after all. The police now say they had far more than that, and they've been charged:

Two men arrested after police found a suspicious item in their car and detonated it were charged Monday with possession of an incendiary device, authorities said.

Ahmed Abda Sherf Mohamed, 24, and Yousef Samir Megahed, 21, were being held at the Berkeley County jail. A bail hearing was scheduled Monday afternoon, Sheriff Wayne DeWitt said.

"They admitted to having what they said were fireworks. Based on the officer's judgment at hand, based on what he had seen, we judged it to be other than fireworks," DeWitt said.

The sheriff refused to say what items authorities found in the car. He said some items were being analyzed by the FBI, which did not immediately return a telephone message seeking comment. . . .

Goose Creek is home to the Naval Weapons Station, which houses the U.S. Naval Consolidated Brig, a military prison where enemy combatants have been held.

The car was heading west, away from Goose Creek, when it was pulled over about 7 miles from the sprawling Navy facility, police said.

[nowingker]

Really?

I guess you don't get charged with gang rape and kidnapping in Durham North Carolina unless there is some 'pretty special' evidence either. Do ya?

[nowingker]

Bullshit.

The police won't say what the 'incendiary' devices were for a good reason, they were fireworks.

That's why the witness to the detonation said they sounded like fireworks, cause that is what they are.

The local cops are embarrassed and trying to save face. This is exactly what the dumb cops in Michigan did.

They first claimed evidence of a plot to blow up the bridge. Then the FBI came in and said 'wrong'...then they hemmed and hawed and charged the guys under some arcane telecom law about cell phone piracy that only about 10 lawyers in the country understanding hoping they would plead guilty so they cops could say 'SEE'...there was evidence.

It's absurd.

[Lala]

What's with these racism charges always being thrown around whenever a Middle Eastern person gets stopped or arrested?

What race are Egyptians and Kuwaitis and Iraqis and Iranians and Indians and Pakistanis?

Aren't they all Caucasians? Anyone?

[charles]

but there's nothing to see here folks, move along,,,,

,,,, err - racist!

,,,i mean - chickenhawk!

,,,i mean -reichwinger!

,,,um, um, bigot!

there is no terrorist threat, it's a bumpersticker, we were mislead!

racists!!

i have "facts!"

i don't think that word means what i think it means, why do you hate caucasians?

[Fred Beloit]

The police are not, it seems, as brilliant at evidence collection and prosecutorial work as is nowinkie. She already knows what all of this is about. Unfortunately, the plodding police will continue to investigate until they are satisfied that they understand the incident fully. What a waste of resources. Don't they understand that detective nowinkie has already cleared the case?

[nowingker]

It's actually pretty easy to read between the lines.

2 arabs stopped speeding away from military base, with 'incendiery devices' in their car, a laptop and a cell phone.

The military base did not blow up; the FBI says the devices were not bombs and there is no terrorist connection, and it comes out the fuses and 'rockets' were commercial, off the shelf from a hobby shop, the 'bomb' that was detonated sounded like a firecracker to witnesses and the two men voluntarily allowed the car search and said there were firecrackers in the trunk.

A reasonable analysis of the known evidence would say that they were two arabs who had some hobby rockets and fireworks in their trunk, there was no bomb or bomb making device let alone a dry run or a thwarted attack.

The simplest answer is usually the correct answer, trying to turn commercial hobby rockets, PVC pipe [horror] and a gas can into a terrorist attack is just plain stupid.

[Gmax]

Well the disbarred prosecutor in Durham was a race baiting Democrat trying to get elected? So your bringing that in means... What? That you suspect some more race baiting Democrats at play in this incident?

[Gmax]

Well the disbarred prosecutor in Durham was a race baiting Democrat trying to get elected? So your bringing that in means... What? That you suspect some more race baiting Democrats at play in this incident?

[mensablonde]

Careful, nowingker. Your agenda is showing.

[fatsacca]

A GPS, a laptop and the right imagery data and software can guide you into a lot of places. More detail than a car nav system or GPS alone. They were kind of off the beaten path if they were trying to get to North Carolina, which according to other news articles was their destination.

[Philip McDaniel]

Hobby rockets and PVC pipes are one thing but potassium chlorate and sugar another. With the right catalyst that I won't identify, easily obtained at any auto supply store or even from your own car, you have the makings of a powerful bomb. Personally, I would be VERY suspicious. And just as an aside, the officer may have been suspicious not of the laptop but the manner in which the person handled it -- as if there was something he did not want seen on the screen.
Without being paranoid one can be alert. Hiding one's head in the sand or being in denial about certain ethnic and/or religious groups and violence is not only stupid it can also get you seriously dead.

[Sara]

Being 10 miles from the base going away is misleading if you know that road, Rt. 176, and understand it pretty much dead ends at the base gate and for a long way before the gate it is just a straight highway with nothing much else around it.

I also think putting too much emphasis on it was "just fireworks" is misleading. These guys are now charged with felonies and yet, you can buy fireworks all over SC at roadside stands and somehow, once bought, you have to transport them home. I doubt if it was "just fireworks" they'd be subject to felony charges or the SC jails would be full of people who bought fireworks and were on their way back home and the police would have an easy job of sitting and watching various firework stands and arresting customers as they drove away. Besides, if you have ever witnessed what just one M-80 can do, and imagine what several fused together with maybe other items like nails/shrapnel, a favorite of suicide bombers, we are talking lethal. I witnessed the damage of just one M-80 when some lowlife idiot time fused one inside a toilet tank at a restaurant and it blew the toilet to smithereens as well as considerable damage to the surrounding bathroom. The police said at the time that if anyone had been in the bathroom when it went off they could have been killed or badly injured. The perp was never caught. The 3 years we were stationed at NSW and living in the area, we bought alot of fireworks (and not just little firecrackers that most people are familiar with) and played around with them. Even simple bottle rockets can do damage, as I discovered when my son set one off and the bottle tipped, so instead of going straight up, it went straight forward and right thru our open front door, between our German Shep's legs, and into the family room where it hit our tower stereo speaker and blew a huge hole in the front and ruined it. I'm sure an engineer could figure many ways to use over-the-counter fireworks to fashion some pretty lethal weapons, especially if the target was an ordnance depot. Fortunately, NSW is very secure as military bases go and I can't imagine a bad guy getting very far with any plot there. But, it is a Naval Facilities Engineering Command and it isn't inconceivable that engineering students could find a way to be on the base for ostensibly legitimate reasons.

[ReBoo]

I live in Charleston and I am familiar with Hiway 176, the location the two suspects were stopped. CAIR says they were simply returning from a trip to North Carolina back to Florida. Well, the first question that pops in my mind is "Who is their travel agent?" Anyone with a map can easily see that if you were to travel from NC to Florida, there is no way you would find yourself in that area. Goose Creek and 176 are no where near being on any direct path from NC to FL. Appearantly they confiscated a GPS device in the car. They were not lost. The whole situation is suspect. Perhaps we should be asking what was the nature of their trip to NC? Model rocket camp? Also, you do not use PVC pipe for making fireworks or rockets, it is too heavy, not too mention dangerous. There is more to this story than is being reported.

[Morgan]

I like how nowingker is so 100% certain of everything he says, while being outraged by 'implications' from the story. Maybe he has more information than everyone else to be so positive that they were just fireworks?

By the way, what does driving away from the base have to do with the appearance of innocence? Bombers never have to drive away from their targets?

Here's to hoping he keeps responding, I suppose the prosecution could end up however, I just want to see what he 'gloats' about when no one's even sure what happened.

[Playing with Fire]

I remember Potassiam Chlorate from high school chemistry. Potassium Chlorate is NOT used in any sort of fireworks compositions nowadays. It gives up its oxygen too easily and forms incidental explosives with even the addition of atmospheric impurities....

Mixed with sugar, it forms a spectacularly fast deflagrating compound, not rocket fuel (which is what potassium NITRATE would do with sucrose), but an explosive our lab teacher told us was called "partisan's composition" because of its frequent use in pipe bombs by revolutionaries. Add any sulphur and it forms an unstable explosive.

Again, KClO3 (potassium CHLORATE) + Sugar + confinement = BOOM. KNO3 + Sugar (potassium NITRATE) = "candy" rocket fuel.

Big, huge, enormous difference. There is almost no way even a precisely packed and molded KClO3 + sugar mixture could launch a rocket. It would almost invariably cause an explosion on the launch pad if tried.

The big "experiment" in my high school chemistry class was heating a "gummy bear" with an equal weight of potassium chlorate and watching the nearly explosive force of the fire in which the gummy bear was consumed. It almost made a blow torch out of the test tubes.

I spent 10 minutes on google just now looking at model rocket sites, and NO ONE is playing with potassium chlorate. In fact, google brings up more "explosives" uses than just about anything else in terms of that oxidizer.

Descriptions of this as "fireworks" are just fishy, it seems to me.

[ReBoo]

The recent bobmbing attempts in Scotland used "incendiary", not "explosive" bombs. Appearantly, it is easier for the wannabe terrorist to make a big fire than a big bang. Hmmmm, speeding away from a Military base with a large gas can and incendiary devices in your trunk. Must be racism. My gut says these guys were up to something, maybe just a probe exercise, and their bail amounts says that the authorities think the same, but can't prove it at this time.

[JorgXMcKie]

Hmmmm. Maybe nonkwhinger could do an experiment? You know, mix up a few pounds of KClO2 and sugar (and maybe some sulfur) and load it up into a one foot piece of 4 inch PVC pipe, cap both ends and set it off (perhaps in her/his car) and tell us if it's more like a firecracker or more like an IED?

[JorgXMcKie]

Oh, yeah, ReBoo, you reminded me. Is it just me, or is CAIR arguing that young *adult* male Muslim university students (even grad students) are too stupid to understand that speeding in a car carrying a can of gasoline and some incendiaries is pr obably going to attract unwanted attention?

This is starting to sound to me like a dry run to see what can be gotten away with.

[nowingker]

LOL!

You guys are too much. How is it supposed to attract attention when the gas can and the 'incendiaries' are in the trunk?!

Of course its 'starting to sound like a dry run' that is what you freaks think about every incident involving arabs that turn out to be nothing.

The FBI agent on scene said it looked like material for home made fire crackers, so of course that must mean there were 'pounds' of accelerant and pipe bombs.

I hope they do sue.

[truthseeker]

First off, if you're an Arab speeding through S.C., you should know better than to have incendiary devices in your trunk. And you should come up with a better story than that you are driving from NC to FL. You may be lost, but we are not and we know that the road you are on does not connect NC and FL.

There are one of two things going on here: The first is that this is like the Flying Imans -- they were trying to look suspicious and get caught so that they could scream "Racial Profiling" and make it easier for the next guy -- who might genuinely be up to something -- not get such close inspection.

The other thing is that they were actually up to something. It may have been nefarious. They may have been incompetent. Maybe we'll find out. Maybe not.

[nowingker]

Can someone direct me to the rule that says if you go on a trip and you are stopped for speeding on a highway that is not on the direct path back to your home state that counts as probable cause for anything? Anything?

So the road they were no doesn't connect to North Carolina or Florida. Well, alright then. Case closed. Send them to Gitmo and get out the waterboarding kit.

[ReBoo]

The "firecracker" sound heard is a red herring. Suspected bombs are not detonated out in the open. They are usually detonated in a canister especially designed to contain explosions. Anyone who has ever put a firecracker in a soda can knows the sound is greatly reduced. What was heard cannot be evidence of the size or power of the explosion.

Also, I do not know what to make of the description of the men (21 and 24,they were not boys) as "naive" by the CAIR "spokesboy". Seems an odd choice of words. naive means having or showing a lack of experience, judgment, or information. "Naive kids"? The driver was a graduate student in civil engineering. Let's hope he doesn't put "naive kid" on his resume.

[ReBoo]

Nowingker,
If you found yourself on the road these guys were on, you would change your mind. Not that you can't take any road you damn well please and not be suspect, but this road is not on ANYONES destination, UNLESS you are heading toward or away from the base. This is not a backstreet in a busy city you find yourself on by mistake. If you are there, you are there on purpose.

And as a SC resident, I am offended by terms like "Good Ole Boy" and thee implication that Arabs are all suspect by local Law Enforcement. If you want to discuss prejudice and conspricacy Nowingker, how about not giving these unfair characterizations a pass? We don't profile all Arabs, or minorities. Just the ones speeding away from military bases on deserted roads. If we villianize all of our law enforcement's motives, we will be doing a disservice not only to them, but to ourselves. This officer should be given a commendation for being observant.

[crosspatch]

Have a look at these. They look like pipe bombs but they are home brew rocket motors, pretty common construction, apparently. Notice also the propellants used. Pictures of the motors at the bottom of the page.

http://www.nakka-rocketry.net/pvcmot4.html

[ReBoo]

I conceed that PVC and potassium percholate can be used for rockets after looking at this site. OKay so we have two arabs arrested with rockets near a military base. Doesn't mean they are innocent though. Rockets can be used as an effective weapon, especially if directed toward a target. hate to have one shot at my house. Either these guys are idiots (rockets and gasoline in a hot trunk) or are seeing if this material can be transported in this form for a nefarious purpose and go unsuspected. All I am saying is there is more to this than Notwinker is willing to conceed.

[M. Simonms]

PVC doesn't seem like the best material for a pipe bomb.

It might be more suited to a device with a lower pressure requirement. You know, like a rocket motor.

However, this episode is not beyond being some kind of security probe. Especially given the tip off.

[crosspatch]

I would agree with you if they were actually playing with the rockets in any way near the base but they weren't. They happened to be caught speeding while driving near they base but in the opposite direction. They were caught Northwest of the town of Goose Creek driving West (actually Northwest according to the map). The road to the naval installation is in the opposite direction in the other side of town to the Southeast. They were on the opposite side of town traveling in the opposite direction and as far as I know, nobody has placed them near the installation. It looks like they were headed toward US 17.

They were here legally. One of them is a permanent resident and it is perfectly legal for them to have a hobby in model rocketry and that isn't all that strange of a hobby for college students to have.

Lets not overreact here or it is going to play into the hands of people like CAIR bigtime.

[ReBpp]

Who here does not believe the incident is worthy of further investigation? Atta here legally and had an interest in flying. nothing suspicious about that either. i am not saying they are guilty of anything, just that we need to ask a few questions.

[nowingker]

Security probe? Too funny.

So they were speeding on purpose, to what end? To find out if you are more likely to be stopped speeding than going the speed limit?

Do you people hear yourselves?

Two arabs attendingd college, here legally, papers in order, are away for the weekend to celebrate one guy's birthday, their trunk is full of legal stuff they bought at Wal-Mart, they cooperate with the authorities from the beginning.

And yet, they are being held in jail on 300K and 500K bond and charged with a felony.

And this makes sense to you nut jobs.

[crosspatch]

Oh, I believe it needs further investigation but your average South Carolina sheriff's deputy probably knows very little about rockets, sees those and thinks "pipe bomb" because he DOES know about pipe bombs.

[ReBoo]

Should we not question them then? The first trip my family took to Canada, we were all questioned, the car and our belongings searched. This was in the 80s. We didn't yell racism. If I am a cop and I see something that looks like a pipe bomb, I am going to raise a red flag. If nothing turns up on their laptop, then I suspect the charges will be dropped. I have not convicted these guys, I am just trying to say let's look at this close. Who would have thought people would smuggle different liquids onto a plane, that when combined could cause an explosion? If you are waiting for something obvious and not looking at the mundane, then it may be too late. And the fact they are students isn't a reason not to be suspicious is it? Isnt it easy to get into country on a Student Visa.

[Reboo]

Regardless of what a SC Deputy knows, they were not FIRECRACKERS, now were they? Who is making the argument that if they are rockets, then they are not a weapon?

[Jay]

From the link, http://www.nakka-rocketry.net/pvcmot4.html it appears that Potassium nitrate is used in the propellent. Potassium perchlorate is used far lesser amounts in the ignitor. The article cites they two were in possession of potassium chlorate, not perchlorate, which is not quite the same compound, although they are all powerful oxidizers.

[Rich Casebolt]

Makes more sense then getting up in arms over the potential for American "theocracy" at the hands of the elected, checked-and-balanced leadership of a rights-respecting republic, nowingker.

http://www.nakka-rocketry.net/pvcmot5.html

(next page in crosspatch's link ... note the warning about sucrose-based propellants, which corroborates Playing With Fire's statements.)

Of course, nowingker, if one of these exploded next to you, your head and mouth ... safely buried in the sand around you ... might be left unharmed.

However, I have 2996 reasons not to try that experiment myself.

[nowingker]

I think you are wrong, SC is going to go forward with the charge regardless of anything on their lap top, any terror ties or anything else, the FBI already said the material appeared to be for home made firecrackers not bombs, but that didn't stop them from putting 'pipe bomb' in the arrest warrant or calling for ridiculously high bail.

[nowingker]

I guess hobby rockets and firecrackers should be banned then, since they are dangerous explosive, incendiary weapons.

[Rich Casebolt]

So much for progressive "nuance".

There's a big difference between an Estes Big Bertha, and what these guys were carrying ... and even then, I wouldn't recommend lanuching the former anywhere near an airport or a military installation.

[Reboo]

Well, I guess they will have to put their fate in the hands of the citizens of SC. If nothing else comes of this, people will be less inclined to drive around on the highway with a unstable explosive mixtures in their trunk. from the website on rockets, it clearly states that the rocket "fuel" isnt something you throw in your trunk and forget about. Thank goodness they weren't rear-ended.

[nowingker]

You can look all over the Internet and see that it appears what these guys were carrying were classic home made rocket gear and materials, just like the FBI agent said.

Of course that would make the SC police look pretty stupid, and given the prejudice against muslims and arabs, it is MUCH easier and safer to claim they were pipe bombs instead.

Pipe bombs are made from metal pipes, no?

[Playing with Fire]

Guys, there's some major ignorance in this thread:

Potassium Chlorate: KClO3 - An atom of Potassium, one of Chlorine and THREE of oxygen. Unstable with most organic and metalic reducing agents. Reacts spontaneously in the presence of sulphur, especially if acidic conditions exist.

Portasion PER-Chlorate: KCL04 (notice the 4). Same as above, but add an extra oxygen and , a much more stable oxidizer used in rockets (although Ammonium Perchlorate is more common), and does not liberate its oxygen as easily as the chlorate variety. Although there is an extra oxygen atom per molecule, the energy that it took to get that to bond is not as easily broken, so it takes more energy to get it to release its energy. The chlorine is at oxidation level +7, compared to the former, above, which is oxidation level +5, which is more reactive.

The link to the rocket builder page above is to a guy using sorbitol (a kind of sugar) and Potassium NITRATE, which is way way WAY less reactive than either of the above.

Since you all seem to be confused, lets look at a couple examples, courtesy of the enterprising idiots on YOUTUBE.

Potassium NITRATE with sugar -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7CB_6EFxik
(slow burning, basically a smoke bomb -- often used in model rocketry as "candy fuel")

Potassium PER Chlorate with sugar -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RcMQGazqWkU
(This is the more stable chlorate. Although it has a larger frame front and this guy confined it to try and make a rocket motor, it still takes quite a bit of time to burn.)

Finally, the stuff the article says these suspects had: Potassium CHLORATE and sugar -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=os_XXeKll9o

Notice how quickly it consumes the whole pile, even unconfined. If you tried using that in a sealed off rocket tube, there's a likelihood it would explode violently.

Finally: Looks like they still do the gummy bear experiment:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUensqImzXM

[Reboo]

I would not put in past you to ban "model" rockets and firecrackers. You already try to ban guns. If a box cutter can be a weapon, then these "model" rockets surely can be used as a weapon. Why do you deny the potential for a model rocket to be used as a weapon? A little petroleum jelly and gasoline make a horrible weapon called napalm. I am sure you have an opinion about napalm. If there is no other lesson learned from 9/11 it should be that terrorists will employ unorthodox methods and weapons, and if directed toward a ammo depot or fuel farm, I can guarantee you that a model rocket can be a dangerous thing.