Updated:The Islamo-fascist Debate

Update: Bryan responded in email:

There's nothing to debate, Dan.  You got sloppy and called me a bigot, and now you're spending hundreds of words to slip out of it.  I'm going on vacation. 

My reply:

Bryan - Given that, all I can conclude is that you're A) Ignorant, B a Christian bigot and C) a punk

Were it not in email, I wouldn't have been so nice. Individuals like Preston give conservatism a bad name.

Bryan at Hot Air asks - and I'll respond in what I hope will be a rational, productive, honest and for the Right, necessary debate:

So, Dan, are you calling me a bigot? I just want to get that straight--that you're calling me a bigot for that post.

No, Bryan. I am not calling you a bigot. What I said was, if the Right denounces all of Islam because public officials wear the hajib while attending the Islamic Center of Washington, but do not object when they ceremoniously wear the religious garb of another religion, then:

"you are only playing right into the hands of those genuinely soft on terror who seek to paint the right as bigoted."

I am not an Islamist apologist. I fully understand that certain tenets of Islam are being exploited to fuel terrorism around the world. And I don't believe groups such as CAIR are here to help, as it were. However, I strongly believe some attempts to place the full weight of responsibility for radical Islam on Islam itself are misguided and ultimately counter-productive, as well as ignorant of history and socio-economic realities.

Anyone who honestly believes we'd be seeing radicalized Muslims on the scale we do today had the West installed capitalistic, representative democracies in the Middle-East after World War II, instead of king and sheik-doms, is kidding themselves. True, there most likely would have been radical groups that emerged. But they would have been dealt with effectively by the peoples of those lands, as they would have had something more to protect than the vast wealth of a few select families.

That does not mean that I excuse the radicalism we see today, or that I don't believe it needs to be confronted with extreme force and destroyed. It simply means that I am capable of understanding that a hijacked Islam presents a wonderful mechanism for engendering hatred among a populace that has never truly enjoyed the freedoms we in the West take for granted. This all goes to the very reason why I support the war in Iraq.

The West needs to show the Middle-east a better way, certainly better than the one we allowed certain dictators to exploit for their own benefit over the last fifty or so years. Had the Middle-east thrived economically and democratically, as it would have with the right approach back then, we would see neither the emigration, nor the militancy we now have to deal with today.

Deal with it, I say. In fact, destroy it. But if we do not at the same time understand the issue in its full complexity and take steps to ameliorate the underlying political and economic realities that have primed such a large Muslim population for exploitation by Muslim extremists, then we will either lose, or forever be fighting the same fight. And because I believe in our secular democracy, while realizing it hinges upon Judeo-Christian values, I abide by our Constitution, respecting all religions, preferring to not single one out simply because it is the one most exploited by evil people today.

I do not for one minute believe anything other than that, if we take away the underlying political and economic injustice we, at least in part, helped foster within the Middle-east, Islam will revert to another benign world religion - it's extremist elements kept in check by the concept of civilized secular democratic rule. And just so you know where I stand, in the mean time, I support eradicating every last radical Islamist that we can, as well as fighting against dubious entities like CAIR.

I don't know if you are a bigot, Bryan - we've never met. And I don't even really care. What I do know is that those on the Right intent on targeting primarily Islam as the root cause of terror, as opposed to seeing it as simply the mechanism of exploitation it is, (not unheard of for a religion btw) are wrong. And ultimately they will do more harm to our efforts against radical Islam, than they will do good. And, finally, they come perilously close to abandoning the concept of freedom of religion - the very concept which led to the founding of this great nation we call America. As an American and a conservative, I am always compelled to speak out when I see that.

Comments

[Warren Bonesteel]

...if I give ya the benefit of the doubt...and squint my eyes a little, I can kinda ...mebbe... see what ya might be trying to get at.

Problem is, yer using a couple-three very real logical fallacies in order to try to point out a possible logical fallacy....and yer just digging yerself a deeper hole as ya go along trying to defending logical fallacies ya presented. Ya might wanna stop diggin' for a bit and think it over.

Ya may wanna re-structure that argument just a wee bit, there, chief.

You're usually pretty good about making your position pretty clear. This time? Not so much.

Personally, even if I give you the benefit of the doubt on this 'un? As presented, your conclusion cannot rationally or logically be derived from your premise. That doesn't make me - or anyone else - bigoted or racist. On the other hand, it may mean something as simple as if you just happened to be wrong this go 'round. ;O)

Godel's Law applies to all of us. ...well...Murphy has a hand in things, too...

Just something to think about.

[Dan Riehl]

That was a mouthful of nothing, WB.

[Purple Avenger]

Bryan simply read what he wanted to see, not what Dan wrote. Big difference.

I say it a lot, but I'll say it again - language is a scalpel, not a blunt instrument.

[seekeronos]

Islam has never been a "religion of peace", and never will be. It is a sociopathic cult of personality around an uneducated camel herder who tried to force his way on everyone he knew, and later, that cult grew into a sociopathic pseudo-religion that preyed upon the weak and the "unbelieving".

Islam has never been "hijacked" - it is perfectly on course, to take as many souls and bystanders into hell as possible.

The only way to deal with Islam is to defeat the "extremists" and place them under subjection, or exterminate them if they do not put down their arms... and to neutralize that pack of lies and deceptions known as the "Quran", be it through secular means or through Christian means by way of sending out missionaries and bringing them to the gospel.

Case closed.

[Buzzy]

The only peaceful and moderate Muslims are the ones who have renounced the basic tenents of Islam and have stopped killing homosexuals and infidels, nonbelievers in Islam, on the basis of their beliefs.

Sorry Dan there is a world of difference in someone wearing a hijab and someone wearing a yarmulke and a person is not a bigot for knowing that difference.

If you don't believe there is a single peaceful and moderate Islamic nation on the face of this earth simply show me one that doesn't have a death sentence in place for any person who converts to another religion or exercises the basic human rights of choice that the rest of the world accepts.

[Imatool]

Bryan is nothing less than a big baby. In his mind, marrying someone of another race makes him immune from bigotry. Insult his sense of decorum and "you are banned". Slavish devotion to Michelle and defense of numerous hypocritical positions - it's all good if it speaks well of the right.
Kill em, nuke em, burn em or shoot em -- if other than christian there is always wiggle room.....

[Fight4TheRight]

Dan, I've been a long time viewer of your blog, you represent the Right in a very good way. And i won't even get into the nature of this "feud."

What I do want to say is that I feel that your publishing anything sent to you in an email is tacky. If I had sent you and email and you published it on your blog, i'd be appalled and I would expect an apology. (and no, i don't care if you have a disclaimer on your site that states emails are property and can be published).

It lacks class and you outta publicly apologize to Bryan for doing it.

As for your point-of-view vs. his, I personally have found no basis anywhere that equates Islam as a religion. It is a politically motivated ideology and in that realm, it is fair game for any discussion or attack. And thus "bigotry" has no business being thrown into the mix.

[Imatool]

Boby Dylan

Oh my name it is nothin'
My age it means less
The country I come from
Is called the Midwest
I's taught and brought up there
The laws to abide
And that land that I live in
Has God on its side.

Oh the history books tell it
They tell it so well
The cavalries charged
The Indians fell
The cavalries charged
The Indians died
Oh the country was young
With God on its side.

Oh the Spanish-American
War had its day
And the Civil War too
Was soon laid away
And the names of the heroes
I's made to memorize
With guns in their hands
And God on their side.

Oh the First World War, boys
It closed out its fate
The reason for fighting
I never got straight
But I learned to accept it
Accept it with pride
For you don't count the dead
When God's on your side.

When the Second World War
Came to an end
We forgave the Germans
And we were friends
Though they murdered six million
In the ovens they fried
The Germans now too
Have God on their side.

I've learned to hate Russians
All through my whole life
If another war starts
It's them we must fight
To hate them and fear them
To run and to hide
And accept it all bravely
With God on my side.

But now we got weapons
Of the chemical dust
If fire them we're forced to
Then fire them we must
One push of the button
And a shot the world wide
And you never ask questions
When God's on your side.

In a many dark hour
I've been thinkin' about this
That Jesus Christ
Was betrayed by a kiss
But I can't think for you
You'll have to decide
Whether Judas Iscariot
Had God on his side.

So now as I'm leavin'
I'm weary as Hell
The confusion I'm feelin'
Ain't no tongue can tell
The words fill my head
And fall to the floor
If God's on our side
He'll stop the next war.

[Warren Bonesteel]

Dan...

Welcome yer to yer very own "Jump the Shark" moment.

Kinda sad to watch it happen...

[Dan Riehl]

"What I do want to say is that I feel that your publishing anything sent to you in an email is tacky."

I appreciate your position and re-visited it, but I see nothing in the email from Bryan that unfairly maligns him, or takes advantage somehow. It was his response to a request for debate. We exchanged several more and I don't plan on posting them. IMO the guy needs the vacation he's been talking about. What I find sad is how many of my friends on the Right appear to have no awareness of the hundreds of millions of Muslims who don't go to mosque, wear the hijab, follow fundamentalist dictates, or do anything different than anyone else in a secular society.

I'm also on record as saying moderate Muslims should do much more to help fight radical Islam. But I am not going to attempt to dismiss their religion because they don't. There are well over a billion Muslims in the world - good luck eradicating that, if you honestly believe it's the only way forward. We'll just have to disagree.

[Stephen]

Preston wrote:
"But Dan wants a debate. Well alrighty then, try and reconcile one post that obliquely calls me an unproductive bigot and the next one denying calling me a bigot at all, then saying that he doesn’t know whether I’m a bigot or not. Go debate yourself, in other words, Dan. You’re already on two or three sides of that issue. It ought to be a spirited exchange."

So I came over hear to see if he exaggerated. He didn't.

[Stout Republican]

Always sucks when philosophical disagreements disgress to insults...but it just seems that you want to deal with issues that many people are passionate about (CAIR for instance)...but just with the self professed nuance, pragmatism, intelligence, and respect for semantics that only you can bring to the table...I think that's what bothered me about this whole exchange. Disagree with someone...but this "my way is the only way and if you disagree you're not at my level and deserve to be pointed out as such"...not a real quote of course...but my interpretation of:

"But if we do not at the same time understand the issue in its full complexity and take steps to ameliorate the underlying political and economic realities that have primed such a large Muslim population for exploitation by Muslim extremists, then we will either lose, or forever be fighting the same fight."

[Randy]

Dan, what is your problem? Just admit you overstepped when you essentially did call him a bigot in your first post on this. The word bigot shouldn't have been brought up if you didn't mean to imply it at the very least, but I think any honest person would see you went further than implying it and just short of flat out saying it.

Guy, it was a two paragraph post. The first paragraph was your rant against Bryan. Your second paragraph (3 sentences) ends with this sentence:

"But I'm not going to shy away from calling out unproductive bigotry when I see it on the Right, either."

Yeah, you weren't calling Bryan a bigot. Dude, just admit that you got carried away and move on. You may have some faithful readers who'll agree with you no matter what, and setting aside the original issue, for you to continue denying calling Bryan a bigot is dishonest and was the nail in your coffin on this matter.

Oh, and this is a gem:

"yet has probably never taken exception to the many photos of pols, including Bush wearing a yarmulke,"

I'm sorry, are we at war with Jews blowing up cars and buses and crashing planes in to our buildings (Truthers need not answer this one)? And others are exactly right... you can ignore it all you want, Islam is what is the one thing you will find that ties all of these people together... and they are the truly devoted. Those not committing terror are simply Muslim in name only.

[12thman]

Dan, your reply to Bryan's objection is 90% non sequitur... a sure sign you've lost the debate.

Bryan didn't say that the ME isn't messed up in part because of past failed policy. He didn't say that billions of Muslims need to be eradicated.

Bryan's point was simply that officials of the U.S. government should not condone or bow to Islamic misogyny. We are at war with "radical" Muslims who's primary goal is to extend their vision of the Caliphate throughout the entire world; one symbol of which is the forced covering of female "meat" vis a vis the hijab. For this set of observations you implied Bryan is a bigot.

Would it have been bigoted (against Germans) to write a disapproving Op-Ed about Jesse Owens had he purposely come in last place in each of his events in the '36 Olympics? Or if, for instance, the USG had requested all Jewish American competitors in said event wear uniforms with bright yellow Stars of David?

[Steve B]

Gee Dan, I don't know what to say...

Since you say they are nice people I would like to see you back up your claim about 'Moderate' Islam. Where are all these so-called moderates? Where are the denuciations of the 'moderates' when the radicals blow people up?

Where is the evidence that 'moderate' Muslims do not support the radicals? Find me two imams who denounced the last bombing attempt in the UK by the sociao-economically deprived team of Muslim Doctors. Hell, find me one.

Where are all these 'moderate' Muslims hiding? Why do they refuse to call out the radicals?

The 'Moderate' Muslim is a myth. The Koran teaches that a Muslim may lie to infidels. The Koran teaches that Allah will reward those Muslims who kill infidels. Why would they not lie? We are not in the house of Islam so to them we are just animals and not human. Anything we have, from land to life, their God has commanded them to take from us because we are not Muslim.

Dan, you have gotten lost in lala land.

I have looked around here in your comments and I do not see one Muslim defending your portrayal of Muslims as nice people who want to co-habitate.

These small steps like putting women under a huge tent to just walk around town is more lies to make it easier for men to escape bad situations by donning a dress and hijab.

The big woman tent was only invented about a hundred years ago. It is not religious garb. It is political garb. You see Islam is not a religion so much as it is a political movement. They intend to rule the world and that is the goal of the 'religion'.

The hijab is political garb. You cannot seperate the religion part from the political part; they are one and the same. Go ask a Muslim if you don't beleive me. Or just crack open your Koran.

[Steve B]

Lets make it even simpler;

Is it bigoted to pick out a particular race or sex and make them into an underclass with no rights(or lesser rights)?

You are defending the 'right' of sexual apartheid for Muslims.

Who is the bigot now?

[Bob Johnson]

Wow you surely got your Dhimmitude panties in a knot. What's next, taking time machine back and defending Lindberg?

By the way what is moderate about someone who follows the teachings of a pedophile-terrorist? I'm willing to bet your rant Dan comes from a hatred of Christians and an extremely poor background in the historic blood letting history of Muhammad. The only time Muhammad preached peace was when he was in the minority in Mecca and then Medina.

Ether way you look like a badly educated fool. Which actually explains one of the most common comment I've read your whole 3rd grader Rino pissing match, "Riehl who is that"?

[Pablo]

"What I find sad is how many of my friends on the Right appear to have no awareness of the hundreds of millions of Muslims who don't go to mosque, wear the hijab, follow fundamentalist dictates, or do anything different than anyone else in a secular society."

I think that's an unfounded assumption, Dan.

"I'm also on record as saying moderate Muslims should do much more to help fight radical Islam. But I am not going to attempt to dismiss their religion because they don't."

Those "hundreds of millions" you referred to have done exactly that: dismissed their religion. And I say that as a nominal Catholic who has dismissed Catholicism. While I'm culturally a member of the tribe, when you're talking about Catholic ideology, you're not talking about me. Same applies to these "Muslims".

[Imatool]

Gosh maybe we can have a WWE wrestling event. Warm up match will be Bryan and Dan in a "blog off" with the Ann Coulter-Michelle Malkin jello wrestling grudge match being the main event.

I realized bryan was vain and immature but after reading the whole sordid exchange at blogofascist.... wow.

[K. Franke]

Dan,
you DO really need to apologize to Brian. And the two of you need to make nice. Otherwise, it won't be Hot Air's bookmark that I delete. Just admit it, please! You went a bit too far.
Peace, and best wishes.

[Dan Riehl]

K Franke - please delete my bookmark now. You really think I'm going to respond to a threat from you? And learn to spell his name if you're such a fan.

[Doug B]

Note to Dan: Stop Digging

[brian (not Preston)]

Umm, Dan..

I hate to be the one to point this out, but you did respond what was actually a non-threat by K Franke..

...seriously, guy...let it go

[ChenZhen]

Did the follow up post (oh for the love of allah) get scrubbed? If so, why?

[Redhead Infidel]

There are a few peaceful “get-along” tenets in the Koran, which were espoused by Mohammed when he was a social outcast desperately trying to gain acceptance in the upper social strata of Mecca. He and his unemployed, ruffian followers were ejected from Mecca by the city elders when they would not refrain from radical “proselytizing” and raiding the surrounding countryside to support their redolent lifestyle. Mohammed was nothing more than a glorified mobster or gangleader in Mecca, and the Meccans would not tolerate the violence he wreaked on their people. When ejected, Mohammed and his band of thieves and thugs slunk off to Medina, where he rapidly consolidated a base of power and added to his converts at the point of a sword. [Google Banu Qurayza for a little example of Mohammed’s so-called mercy and compassion.]

Once Mohammed controlled Medina, he vengefully threatened Mecca to appease his earlier humiliation at their hands. The elders, fearful of the violence and destruction for which he was now well-known, signed a hudna - or 10 year peace - with Mohammed. During that time, he reinforced and rearmed his troops, fortified Medina, and then betrayed the hudna by viciously attacking Mecca when they were least expecting it. He razed Mecca and slaughtered the citizens unless they converted.

Buoyed by the success of his bloodiest campaigns, he revealed a harsher, more uncompromising aspect of Islam. These later bloodthirsty, convert-or-die verses are the true root of Islam. In fact, as the Koran and Sira and Hadith make very clear, interpretation of the Koran is guided by the Doctrine of Abrogation. That means that the chronologically earlier verses of the Koran are abrogated - voided - by the verses revealed later.

You and too many others labor under the deception that Islam is a peaceful religion because the West has been carefully fed a handful of “peaceful, let’s-all-get-along” verses as being representative of the tenets of Islam. Nothing could be further from the truth. That tactic - lying to gullible and tolerant Westerners - is taquiyya. You have been duped.

Read the Koran, Sira, and Hadith for yourself - it’s the only way to understand. Your eyes won’t deceive you.

A cautionary note: The Koran is not ordered chronologically, it is compiled by size. The chapters and verses are ordered by the length of their prose - which is why it appears to be disordered and illogical. That is why understanding the Doctrine of Abrogation is so important.

"None of Our revelations do cause to be forgotten, but We substitute something better or similar: Knowest thou not that Allah Hath power over all things?" - Surah 2:106

Even back in Mohammed’s day, he knew his later teachings were not consistent with his earlier revelations. Mohammed’s explanation? “They just don’t get it.”

"When We substitute one revelation for another,- and Allah knows best what He reveals (in stages),- they say, 'Thou art but a forger': but most of them understand not." - Surah 16:101

Such inconsistency does not concern Muslims because:

"Allah doth blot out or confirm what He pleaseth: with Him is the Mother of the Book." - Surah 13:39

After all, since Muslims believe the Koran is from Allah, it cannot be considered faulty, though had it been written by anyone else but Mohammed, it would surely be highly so:

"Do they not consider the Quran (with care)? Had it been from other than Allah, they would surely have found therein much discrepancy." - Surah 4:82

Thus, belief in Islam requires a full suspension of critical thinking skills. The Doctrine of Abrogation, whereby previous tenets and revelations in the Koran are replaced with new and improved revelations casts doubt on the credibility of the current Arabic Koran’s claim that it is the perfect and final revelation of Allah.

I think this essay (http://americandigest.org/mt-archives/006473.php) by Vanderleun is nothing short of brilliant, but unfortunately I disagree with his conclusion - that Islam must be reformed and assimilated or face nuclear annihilation. Reform cannot and will not ever happen. By definition, Islam cannot allow such. It would no longer be Islam, but something else entirely. And there are no half-measures within Islam.

There is nothing moderate about Islam. Those “westernized” Muslims today are actually living a very watered-down, nominal version of their faith - which is why moderate Muslims are considered apostate by True Muslims. (Which also explains why, when Muslims become more devout, they become more radical.) In fact, many modern Muslims today do not understand or ever know about the Doctrine of Abrogation - it is not discussed. Surely you are aware that criticism and reform of Islam is not allowed within the religion itself, and is punishable by death.

[Nom de Blog]

The line of argumentation that you have used, Mr. Riehl, is flawed in at least one respect:

If A and B are analogous** and one denounces A, then no position whatsoever need be taken on B.

A third person who calls for denunciations of B are forgetting that no person can/should be commanded to comment on B if that person chooses not to do so. Some third person who argues that B must be denounced because A was denounced must believe their own self-worth higher than that of the first speaker because they must believe it is their right to tell others upon what subjects they must comment.

**As one or two commenters above indicate, A and B in this case may be different enough in important respects that A and B are not analogous. But we can leave that aside.

[Nom de Blog]

are --> is

Darn it.

[darwin]

"Bryan - Given that, all I can conclude is that you're A) Ignorant, B a Christian bigot and C) a punk"

People who call people bigots are usually A) blind to what's going on around them B) Leftist in rightwing clothing or just plain leftist, or C) don't have the balls to say how they really feel for fear of being called a bad name.

P.S. You get extra "Kos" points for throwing in "Christain".

And change the name of your blog to "Herr Riehl's World View" ...

[Imatool]

Looks like the attack of the hotair heads has started. How dare you have a different opinion than Michelle, Allah or Bryan! That just shows how leftist you really are.
Make us mad and we may do a little DDOS attack on you just to show you not to mess with HA. Ask Mike Starks about that.
What a bunch of frat boys.....

[Dan Riehl]

"Did the follow up post (oh for the love of allah) get scrubbed? If so, why?"

Because I thought better of posting the email trail. I wasn't even reading his circuitous rants by that time anyway.

[Mark]

Herr Riehl is having problems discerning Germans from Nazis. Like an earlier poster said, "Stop digging." Dan, you are being a Riehl horses ass about this. If you want to pick a fight with Bryan, just admit it. Islam sucks.

[Doug B]

The original question seems to be; at what point does respect for anothers' beliefs, become tacit acceptance of descrimination within those beliefs.
There are legit arguments on both sides.

Often when in debate with the left you hear, " you just think that because you're a sexist, racist, homophobic, nativist, speciesist, bigot" Oh yeah, "and you hate poor people."

You should take it as a compliment Dan, that people expected better from you.

[INUIT Already]

Done, and done. Your bookmark has been expunged. I doubt I'll see your "drivel" again. So sad, that you have taken the "lower road" (Bryan, not brian - so sorry for an (I think) minor spelling error, (Bryan can be the judge. If I've offended him, he can take issue with me.). BuTT (intentional spelling) please take confidence in the fact that I think you're an Ass-hat.
Hope your blog sinks into obscurity - Oh!, Wait, isn't that where it already is?
Best Wishes, K.F.

[Pierre Legrand]

Dan you honestly need to read a bit of history regarding Islam before you post.

Dan says:"Anyone who honestly believes we'd be seeing radicalized Muslims on the scale we do today had the West installed capitalistic, representative democracies in the Middle-East after World War II, instead of king and sheik-doms, is kidding themselves."

Was Mohammed a moderate? Did he behave how you believe a moderate would behave? Is his life the sort of example you believe others should follow? Put simply would you invite Mohammed to dinner? Also are you honestly putting the blame of the terrorist attacks and Islams war on our behavior? Exactly when did you start taking up the lefts talking points?

Dan says:"Had the Middle-east thrived economically and democratically, as it would have with the right approach back then, we would see neither the emigration, nor the militancy we now have to deal with today."

Hmmmm...so then you believe that Islam is compatible with Democracy? You are at odds with a whole host of apparently more knowledgable folks. Lets start with Amir Taheri Islam is incompatible with Democracy. http://www.benadorassociates.com/article/4462
Lest us return to the issue of equality.
The idea is unacceptable to Islam.
For the non-believer cannot be the equal of the believer.
Even among the believers only those who subscribe to the three so-called Abrahamic religions: Judaism, Christianity and Islam ( Ahl el-Kitab) are regarded as fully human.
Here is the hierarchy of human worth in Islam:
At the summit are free male Muslims
Next come Muslim male slaves
Then come free Muslim women
Next come Muslim slave women.
Then come free Jewish and /or Christian men
Then come slave Jewish and/or Christian men
Then come slave Jewish and/or Christian women.

Do you understand that a liberal democracy is ONLY possible if you have equal rights?

Dan says:"I'm also on record as saying moderate Muslims should do much more to help fight radical Islam. But I am not going to attempt to dismiss their religion because they don't. There are well over a billion Muslims in the world - good luck eradicating that, if you honestly believe it's the only way forward. We'll just have to disagree."

Eradicate them?? Who has stated that as a policy? Exactly how do you dismiss the facts of those peaceful Muslims in Indonesia and Jordon thinking that a mass murderer is A-Ok. Does that have any bearing at all on your statement that there are a lot of good muslims? How many? What sort of numbers are we talking about here?

I can show you that at least in a poll conducted by Pew that 58% of those nice muslims in Indonesia thought Bin Laden was ok. Let that sink in for a moment or two Dan. How do you make that jive with your beliefs?

Freedom of religion has been A-Ok with religions so far because we have never encountered a religion that demands its followers take up arms to spread it. How do you moderate that Dan?

Having said all of this and given that I do not think that Islam can be moderate I am a complete loss as to what to do. The solutions I have are so horrible as to be unthinkable. What I fear is another attack on this country using nuclear weapons, that will make my solutions seem reasonable. The Jihadists are not quite smart enough to realize just how terribly dangerous we can be. They think they have the corner on dangerous and they forget just how tough we get when the chips are down. They should go spend some quality time with the Japanese. And the Japanese never did anything nearly as horrible to one of our cities.

Muslims are living on borrowed times...its a terrible shame but it is a reality. The Third Conjecture by Wretchard...

[Imatool]

Ah Pierre yet another who gleefully salivates at the prospect of launching nuclear strikes at as many Muslims as possible. Your bias against Asians is subtle but there all the same.

Thank goodness people with your opinions are not in charge with their fingers on the button.
Let me throw a little scenario your way. Some whack job gets elected who promises fire from the skies if one if our cities is hit -- an instigator from oh say NK manages to nuke one of our cities and the evidence seems to point to Islamics. President Pierre launches all out nuclear attack on the Muslim/Arab countries killing a couple of hundred million.

Ooops the truth comes out that it was a setup -- no big deal says Pres Pierre we had God on our side and besides they had it coming.

Disgusting.

[Pierre Legrand]

Building up those strawmen I see...probably all you two are capable of in a debate. Try and address the issue.

[Imatool]

strawmen, nonsequitir, blah blah blah. Just another "intellectual" that gets his marching orders, political orientation, and talking points from the Hotair gang. Like the fast food of news -- Hi this is Pierre, I'd like some chicken nuggets and a 30 second sound bite so I know what to say about muslims. Then I can go surf pron.

[Nom de Blog]

I see that nobody wished to evaluate my criticism at 1:07pm, above.
That's not entirely surprising but still somewhat disappointing.

[Pierre]

"strawmen, nonsequitir, blah blah blah. Just another "intellectual" that gets his marching orders, political orientation, and talking points from the Hotair gang"

Ah its a conspiracy...ooh look out your window and see me waving at you.

[Imatool]

"Ah its a conspiracy...ooh look out your window and see me waving at you."

It only took you a few hours to get the hotair overlords to tell you something clever to say. LOL

[INUIT Already]

Done, and done. Your bookmark has been expunged. I doubt I'll see your "drivel" again. So sad, that you have taken the "lower road" (Bryan, not brian - so sorry for an (I think) minor spelling error, (Bryan can be the judge. If I've offended him, he can take issue with me.). BuTT (intentional spelling) please take confidence in the fact that I think you're an Ass-hat.
Hope your blog sinks into obscurity - Oh!, Wait, isn't that where it already is?
Best Wishes, K.F.

[Pierre]

Yup well that tin foil beenie cap I have on allows them to send signals direct. Used to have to stare at the tv between channels.

So then clever boy explain how Islam can be what Dan thinks it is if there is no equality. Exactly how does one create a liberal democracy in that sort of enviroment. Take all the time you need.

[Imatool]

Pierre.... Pierre....

Hillary and Obama already have that plan. You will get to know about it soon enough. It is a far better one than nuke em all.

[RW]

Wow. Just wow.

****Were it not in email, I wouldn't have been so nice. ****

Yeah, sure you wouldn't, tough guy. I bet all the girls swoon at your machismo as it oozes from your pores.

And with that idiotic line (they type that is usually the sole propriety of the kossack breed) you removed any respect that I had for you, not that you'd care what with you being a bad-ass typist & all. Really, that was juvenile on your part.

[Randy]

I find it funny that there are a few Riehl faithful that are making this a childish little fight, accusing anyone who just wants Dan to admit he went overboard and DID essentially call Bryan a bigot, of being dispatched by HotAir to come attack Riehl here.

So let me understand this... Riehl, after starting this whole thing by writing a post about Bryan's post and calling him a bigot. Bryan responded, and Riehl wrote another post to turn it in to some hot blog-on-blog action. Yet he wasn't sending out his troops, but anyone here who is simply saying Dan went overboard in his comments and more importantly is being dishonest by denying what he said, setting aside the whole "Muslim issue", are part of some Hot Air conspiracy to overwhelm Riehl's comments? Right. Imatool, and the other one (too lazy to scroll for your name) are pretty ridiculous.

And as for anyone who buys the "most Muslims are peaceful" BS, I suggest reading Pablo's comment on being Catholic but not really being "Catholic" @ Saturday, July 07, 2007 at 10:31 AM. It's probably the most clearly spelled out that I've heard it.

And Imatool and other Riehlites... don't you find it at all funny that while others have actually made thought out arguments and points, you guys are down in the mud with whining conspiracy theories about Hot Air sending people here and nothing to offer in the way of real debate.

[Imatool]

Oh Randy Randy, another nuke them till they glow, muslims can't coexist, etc. believer. Yawn! The simple truth is that you WANT it to be that way even though the vast majority of Muslims are peaceful. One in five is radical, that means that four in five are not.

As for the pettiness suggest you take a gander at the entire email exchange at http://www.blogofascists.com/blog/_archives/2007/7/7/3076431.html

and maybe you will see how childish Bryan really was. There are no such thing as Riehlites but there is certainly a self proclaimed community of Malkinites at hotair who refer to her as "the boss", although they are not employed by her. Like I mentioned before you have to check with what she, Allah and Bryan say so you know what the PC opinion is for the day.

Who is the real tool Randy?

[Randy]

"Malkinites at hotair who refer to her as "the boss""

First of all, that's what Allah calls her... so a handful of commenters may jokingly too(though I can't say I've seen this happen more than a couple times, of course I wasn't looking because I'm not under the impression that HotAir is a big conspiracy as you are). You are a deranged lunatic if you really mean to say that they're calling her "the boss" because they get marching orders from her. Hell, her site and opinions vary quite a bit from HotAir, especially AllahPundit who pretty much runs HotAir and comes off as more libertarian than conservative much of the time... But again, you are unbelievably stupid if you're saying that "the boss" stuff implies she has followers awaiting daily marching orders. Wow, you're much crazier than I thought.

"Who is the real tool Randy?"

Lol, are you serious? Again, you've got issues guy... I never even called you "a tool", IT'S YOUR FREAKIN' NAME - "Imatool"!!! The fact that you use "tool" (an insult I find annoying anyway) as a way to give me a big "take that!" would be humorous, if it weren't so scary to think of what a deranged person you are, and the fact that you're free to roam the streets.

(Not sure why I'm even addressing this because it's just beyond stupid..) There isn't a shred of evidence to suggest that anyone waits for what Malkin, Bryan, or AP tell them is PC (in fact, if you ever go there, you might know that we HotAir foot soldiers are constantly fighting amongst ourselves and with Allah. I personally (and dozens of others) were scolding Michelle over unprofessional behavior during some of her O'Reilly hosting gigs, in the open threads at HotAir (some of the most read on the site). And it's laughable that you'd say they tell us what is "PC", when this whole thing started because Riehl wanted to be the f-ing PC police!!!

[Imatool]

Randy, I see that you ignored the link to the whole email trail...hmmm Stanley Tool indeed.......

[Imatool]

Poor Randy is losing it.
In one breath he says "You are a deranged lunatic if you really mean to say that they're calling her "the boss" because they get marching orders from her."
and then

"(in fact, if you ever go there, you might know that we HotAir foot soldiers are constantly fighting amongst ourselves and with Allah."

Marching orders and foot soldiers go hand in hand. Look at how many of your bloggers-in-arms came out of the woodwork to defend Bryan. Is he not man enough to handle his own affairs?

How about Mike Stark and the two gentlemen who embarassed MM at the CPAC by (a) putting her on the spot about her Defense of Internment book, at which point she literally ran away, claiming later she was ambushed and (b) When Mike Stark got a recording of her cussing up a blue streak about the "ambush".

Allah posted a breathless newscast that sounded as if her very life was in danger from a deranged stalker. Oddly enough Stark's site went down for a couple of days soon after that.

Or when she complains that Youtube dropped one of her videos a bunch of you all started wildly posting to youtube.

Sorry Randy, the rational one is me, not you.

[Pierre]

"To say that all Islam is evil and cannot modernize is moronic."

Why? Explain yourself. Explain how a religion that does not believe we are all created equal can be made liberal? Are women equal to at least male muslim slaves?

"Are you going to kill/convert over a billion human beings?"

Nope. We didn't set out to kill every single Nazi on the face of the earth. Wasn't required. All we had to do was kill enough of them to convince the rest that perhaps that philosophy would be their ruin. Worked too.