Crime And Punishment

Relative to that Paris Hilton thing - what about this woman who killed her husband and got 210 days in jail? What hotel chain has her name on it?

Comments

[BobInStamford]

Thats almost as absurd as giving Paul Bremer the Medal of Freedom for mismanaging Iraq!

In any case, the SURGE is WORKING!!!

[Buzzy]

Apparently it isn't only the rich and famous that can break the law and pay little or nothing in penalty.

[Northerner]

If a man is coward enough to abuse his wife (or girlfriend, or any woman for that matter), he deserves what he gets. The Neanderthal times are behind us, our brain is more developed so we do not have to resort to violence against women. If you don't like her, or what she does, walk away. Permanently if necessary.

[Purple Avenger]

"Thats almost as absurd as giving..."

...Ted Kennedy a drivers license.

[docweasel]

No one said terms are all equal. The judge sits the case, ponders the evidence, and makes his decision. Its not a perfect system, but its the best one in the world. I'd rather face American justice than any other country I can think of.

The point is, you can take headlines and soundbites and make hay of them, but we don't know the facts the judge looked at to make his determination. I trust the good faith and integrity of _most_ judges to make a decision based on the evidence.

My point about P.Hilton is, based on the evidence and the facts, the judge made a determination. It should have been followed through. The sheriff is not a judge. He's an agent sworn to execute the edicts of the judiciary and the law. If a judge says it, the sheriff is supposed to damn well do it.

Again, apples to oranges. We don't have access to the facts the judge did in this murder case. All very well to demagogue and try to make tired points, you can find 10000 different outcomes in 10000 different trials. I happen to believe judges do their best, even liberal judges, according to their lights and the truth and what's right as God gives them to see the right.

I might not always agree, but that's what a republic is about: we elect people to appoint people with our same sense of justice and what crime and punishment means. Ronald Reagan appointed Sauer, which is probably why I agree with his decisions ;)

[tally]

guess you also liked Sandra Day O'Conner.

[docweasel]

Sometimes, but not always. And of course judges don't always act predictably, (see Souter, David). However, that's all part of the system. And by and large, I support it, even when all the outcomes are not what I would have desired. Who the hell says I'm so smart, anyway?

[Crimso]

"If a man is coward enough to abuse his wife"

Read up a little on the particulars of the case. "If" is the operative word in your statement. She had every reason in the world to lie, and it's totally and completely her word against his. But, oops! He's dead now, isn't he? Rather convenient for her, I'd say.

[Northerner]

Very true Crimso, but....

I know of very few cases (none at all without Googling) where a wife killed her husband for no reason at all. I haven't read anything about her getting a big inheritance off him, or of her having an affair. The evidence we have (circumstantial, I'll grant you that) points towards a history of abuse. Supportive neighbours, a lenient judge.... not real likely if she was thought to be a cold-blooded killer. The neighbours probably had a good idea of what was going on and the judge more than likely knows details we don't.

[Crimso]

And as I have posted on other sites (repeatedly), any defense attorney worth a damn would have had ANYONE on the stand that could testify to any actual abuse. The fact that no one testified to that effect means that the evidence for abuse isn't even circumstantial. It's simply totally nonexistent. Oh, other than her word. She wouldn't have any reason at all to have lied through her teeth, now would she? As for no reason to kill her husband, perhaps he was going to go public and/or divorce her because of her check kiting scheme. The bottom line is that we have at least some evidence that there was physical violence in the relationship: Matthew Winkler's shotgun-blasted body.

The fact that people will give a confessed killer the benefit of the doubt (when there is positively no reason whatsoever to do so) because she CLAIMS ahe was abused (again, spin it any way you like: there is no evidence for it) says some very bad things about the society we live in.

[seekeronos]

Off topic, but I begin to wonder when BiS will change the record on his toy phonograph.

So many times with the "The SURGE is WORKING!!!" tagline, you'd think the boy hasn't got more than three brain cells to rub together in hopes of generating a new, original thought.

[Phoenix]

Seek,

"Off topic"? :) Since when has Three Brain Cells ever been on topic?

You are forgiven.

[MoscowGirl]

You americans are nutty...... and what a joke, you have "class warefare"....... a capitalist country......

Under the “circumstance” I guess one should feel quite lucky if in the last 5 days one was able to dig up more than 3 hours of TV coverage on the G-8 Summit……

In 5 days my stop-watch clocked 3 hrs 47 minutes….. I feel well informed….. and somewhat revenged by this article: Paris Hilton Symptoms: Sick Society
http://www.bayoubuzz.com/News/Entertainment/Paris_Hilton_Symptoms_Sick_Society__3985.asp

I am sorry the dumb cow is back in prison/jail.

Besides the fact that she did get an unfair sentence and treatment by the Judge, I had a hope that her house arrest would be a sufficient turn-off for the public to diminish interest for her persona, endorsed products and appearances.

But it did not happen. The dumb, careerist Judge, like Cezar, was watching the public’s thumb turning down, and unbeknownst to himself, gave this piece of “nothing” another opportunity to “redeem herself” by following the good advises of her PR team, and gaining sympathy from a group of public figures who are now looking more closely at and voicing the unusually severity of her original sentence.

Now she is back in the stop-light, and the public’s interest has not faded. As uncomfortable as she maybe for the next two weeks, she will still return to her millions, and more stop-light in the future. A book, a TV show, a “special”…….. While her “ill-wishers”, especially those who are clearly driven by class hatred and envy, not only will never get a business-dynamo grand-father to inherit millions from, not only wasted precious personal time following this cow’s story, but will continue to contribute to P. Hilton’s fame, and therefore earning, by an unhealthy interest in her demise……

It is rare to see such a “loser-loser-loser” situation: a stupid useless cow in the spot light, mad masses full of class envy, an unfair careerist Judge, incapable defense attorney, a Sheriff who does not know how to follow proper even if legal procedures, and major national media who caters to the lowest common denominator……… and last but not least, Al Sharpton, who’s like “US international politics” just has to be “that cork-screw that squeezes its prick into every bottle” (as long as the bottle is not Black).

Particularly annoying is the fact that right in the middle of a whole 2 minutes of G-8 coverage, you get a voice interruption: “We interrupt this programme to bring you an important news…….. “.

Particularly annoying is the fact that you have "class hatered"......... in a Capitalist Country! makes me sick I had to fight the "soviet system" in defence of such.. where is you Capitalist Regime? you don't teach your kids right, that "rich - is good"!

What a country……. :lol:

[seekeronos]

Madame Tovarisch "MoscowGirl":

Mind passing along whatever it is that you're snorting to the rest of us?

In the meantime, a few points to help you with your English: It's "Caesar", not "Cezar" (the same word incidentally, you derived "Tsar" from). Also, the idiom is correctly rendered "she is back in the spotlight". A "stop-light" is a traffic control device, a red traffic light, in most countries (like ours) that have an abundance of privately owned cars. "Spotlights" are the extremely bright stage lights used to focus the audiences' attention on a particular person or object on the stage. Fancy that, as Paris is (at odd times) an actress (whose talents remain debateable).

However, given your relative knowledge of our legal system, and some of your other amusing utterances here... I have my doubts that you are some former Soviet or even anything close to a Marxist.

As for having "masses mad with class envy", I'm not buying it. Just because a twit has money doesn't mean the rest of us have to be necessarily jealous of her. In fact, a good many of us dumb proletarians feel empathy for her stunning vacuousness, and hope that Mr. Hilton has had the foresight to pass his empire onto a capable group of people who will manage things while she idles the rest of her natural days away, sucking down copious amounts oxygen and perhaps a few other things not to be mentioned in the polite company of this forum.

[Northerner]

@ seekeronos:

Tell me, how is your Russian? Better than her English? It's really easy to laugh at someone when they don't speak your language perfectly. It's a lot harder to make the effort to learn a second (or third, or even more) language.
How many languages do you speak? More than one? I doubt it. So laughing at someone else who makes mistakes in what is obviously not their mother tongue just makes you look dumb.

[seekeronos]

I don't make a claim to speak Russian. I do speak some Japanese, although not as fluently as I would like, as well as some Spanish and a fair amount of German, but that also is irrelevant.

If you come on to an English-language forum to deride, criticize, or otherwise counter an ongoing thread... have the common decency to do so lucidly and correctly in the language of the debate. No more than I enter into a foreign-language discussion unless I am confident that I could contribute something to it.

If she were making an observation without verbal malice, I'd be much inclined to forego any critique of her linguistic skills.

However, I do not think she is even a foreigner, but another dissatisfied American liberal masking her intentions (for some reason) under the pretense of being a foreigner.

Of course, I could well be wrong, and I'll eat crow otherwise... but most foreign commenters here are usually a good deal better in handling the language than even some of the Americans.

[nowingker]

Come on Seek, do you disagree that the G-8 summit is more deserving of media coverage than Paris Hilton going to jail? That there is class hatred here in the US? That the media panders to the lowest common denominator?

Or you just get thrown into winger attack mode because once you read "capitalist" you just dismissed the poster as a liberal/commie/socialist/democrat and simply sought a way to discredit her rather than reading what she posted, which is quite in line with most of what you post on here.

You guys are so fucking hilarious.

[seekeronos]

Well, the G-8 summit is probably more noteworthy than what happens in the world of celebrity twits whose antics are amusing both on stage and off stage...

... but concerning the media, any perception that they pander to the lowest common denominator is mostly driven by ratings rather than by an earnest desire to report events factually, combined with a false sense of intellectual elitism that the majority of the (liberal left) media sees as yet another way to ridicule those they see as being beneath them (which is most of the audience that tunes in).

In short, the media plays more clips about Paris (or whoever the celebrity knucklehead du jour happens to be) than the G-8 summit ecause they honestly think we, the public, are ___really___ so much more concerned about her whereabouts and misadventures.

Whether or not such hauteur on the part of the media bears itself to be based on a grain of truth is tied to how easily the public is titilated by the misadventures of a spoiled, pouty heiress who suddenly has drawn everyone's attention, and is a mark on the deterioration of the quality of our own values, as much as it is on the pseudo-intellectual snobbery of the media.

Class warfare?

The only classes I see are the career politicians who couldn't care a rat's behind about governing according to the desires of their electorate, who sit in Congress solely for the purpose of ensuring they keep thier incumbency on the next go-round.

I don't hate the uber-rich, nor do I see much hatred for the uber-rich (aside from the occassional malcontented radical, whose ideals would probably have Chavez or Castro asking them to chill out a little on the leftist talking point worship).

The uber-rich for the most part, have little to do with commoners like myself, and remain above my notice until they start trying to take away my rights. There are slight indications that some of the uber-rich (like George Soros and Al Gore) wish to do that, but I'll keep my eyes on them all the same.

[MoscowGirl]

Dear Seekeronoos, THIS IS GOING TO BE A BUMPY RIDE, FASTEN YOUR SEAT-BELT......

I love you reply to my post...... trully....... :=)

You just can’t imagine how long I’ve laughed after reading your comment “However, I do not think she is even a foreigner, but another dissatisfied American liberal masking her intentions (for some reason) under the pretense of being a foreigner.”
But I’ll get to it later….. :=). To answer few of your questions and comments:
What am I snorting? I am high on life; occasionally drunk on Absinthe (the real one, with wormwood)…. :=).
Thank you for helping me with English, help with languages is always appreciated. And if you care to provide the same assistance with German, French and Italian, I’ll give you links to few of my favorite Euro-blogs, because I am “an equal opportunity mis-speller”…… :=)

Be careful when you call yourself a “proletarian”, before Marx grossly misused the word to address the “working class”, in Latin “proletariat” means “a person with no assets and no property and many dirty hungry children”.

As far as your assumption that I was not really born in USSR/Russia, but actually an American-born liberal “pretending”…… I really don’t know what to say except “you are sooooooooooo off your rockers”…… :=).

However, I can see how you can be totally confused listening to my comments on Hilton’s situation, since:
5 of my favorite “American books” are: Economics by Milton Friedman, “Atlas Shrugged” by Rand, and “Harrison Bergeron” by Kurt Vonnegut, “Painted Bird” by Jerzy Kazinsky, and “Red Chief” by O’Henry.

5 of my favorite American movies are “12 angry men”, “All about Eve” and “Boy and his dog”, “Dangerous Liaisons”, “House of Sand and Fog”.

5 favorite “journalists/social analysts” – Bill Maher (until he lost his marbles 5 years ago), Chris Hutchinson, Gore Vidal, Bill O’Raily (minus his love of Religion and rah-rah-America-the-Greatest), Charlie Rose (when he is not trying to be the star of his own show).

5 things I hate about “aspects present in American culture”: 1ST trough 5TH commandments, blunt mediocrity, and presence of “Calvinism/Protestantism”, Affirmative Action, and lousy high-school education unacceptable to an advanced society.

5 things I love about “aspects present in American culture”: 6TH through 10TH commandment, PETA, Hudson Valley architecture, Smithsonian, Metropolitan Opera (sometimes, when they don’t have Korean girls dancing Odette in Swan Lake, or a Black man singing “Evgeny Onegin”, that’s too PC for me.)

How it relates to Paris Hilton? I’ll tell you what ticks me off in all this “mess”.

- The masses screaming “no special treatment for the rich and famous”. Well! I have problem here:

a) She did get a “special treatment” – towards the “negative”. Look up “sentence statistics” for similar offenses. Max was given 8 years ago……. 72 hours!

As impossible as it is given the powers granted to the Judge in his capacity, I would have still love to bring his sorry arse in front of California State Bar Ethics Committee, charged with Abuse of Judicial Discretion, demanding to produce examples of mandatory AND! binding precedent statistics for the last 10 years in the State of California, i.e. factual vs. mandatory sentencing for similar offence.

I bet his blimey arse, he would not be able to present one single similar sentencing in a given offence.

b) I am tired to see Caucasian Judges and Politicians strategically catering to the “electoral pool”, which are often “poor minorities” who are out for blood of “whites and wealthy”, such as the case you guys are currently facing with 3 “La Crosse” boys falsely accused of rape.

c) Can someone drown Al Sharpton in the bath-tub? Please…….. The blimey hypocrite runs his fat mouth about Jews and Mormons, and then screams “foul” each time he has an opportunity to get into SPOT LIGHT with a “unfair to Blacks” adjenda!

What blimey business does he have to get involved in Hilton’s issue, and link it to “poor treatment of Blacks”.

You guys did PLENTY!!!!!!! to compensate for all the former injustices to the Black community in the last 50 years! How long will you continue with this self-flagellation, which is eventually incapacitating to the Black community? You can lead a Horse to the Water, but you can’t make it drink!

You have scholar-ships, educational grants, free community and city colleges, “this programme”/”that programme”……. All sorts of “favoritism”. All to help minorities……. And what do they do with it? Often very little! In the age of “information” they sure as heck can see on TV that “Addidas or Nikies” and wear them. Why don’t they see on TV that “education and hard work” is the KEY TO SUCCESS IN ANY SOCIETY?

At the same time there are wonderful examples of Oprah, Ms. Rice, etc….. who came from difficult back grounds and Lord Behold, are on top of the world.

You put Japanese into concentration camps and nuked them later…… And Lord Behold…….. they are lawyers, computer scientists, doctors, and building the best cars jointly with US of A…… :=). And nobody is complaining of “past injustices” as an excuse to laziness.

Jews were killed, mutilated, banished and prosecuted for 2000 years! Do they ever ask for “affirmative action” or something other than “just don’t kill us and let us live in peace”, and Lord Behold! They are lawyers, computer scientists, doctors, musicians……… who managed to build a western country in the DESERT, that has not been touched for 7 centuries.

Immigrants from China, Vietnam and other political hard-ship areas come to USA…… and Lord Behold…… soon they are business owners, lawyers, doctors and etc……

Get RID of Al Sharpton, and take Jessie Jackson with him…….. Because you’re a laughing stock of many international communities!

d) Why is Paris Hilton a celebrity? Why is Dead Betty-Boobs, aka Ann-Nikole Smith, is a celebrity? The dumb arse ball players make more money than NASA Scientists, College Professors, Cancer Research Doctors?

Because it’s your entire American fault! You, for 200 years, tried so hard to disenfranchise yourselves from “All Finest European”, the concept of Aristocracy, the concept of “refinement” and “class”. You eat on paper-plates instead of fine china, you wear jeans and tennis shoes to theatre and opera (that is those who attend theatre and opera), everything that is elegant, gracious, multi-dimensional you call “elitist”…… (and some-how manage to sneak “Scarlet Letter” morals into all of this, while on the other side of the corner “Playboy” and “Cherry” are for sale next to ugly jeans and hamburgers). Fine with me……… just don’t spread it to the rest of the world. We don’t want it!

And what do you get instead of European “Refinement and Aristocracy”? Your own “aristocracy”!……. new-money, poorly educated, with bad taste, ball players, Donald Trump, Dead Betty Boobs, Paris Hilton………. While NASA engineers, and researchers at Livermore and Lawrence Berkeley Laboratories make avg. of $ 78K/annum.

e) But after “raising up” people like Paris Hilton, Britney Spears and all other trash, and making them millionaires, you, the society, no better than the ancient Roman mob, give them to the Lions and turn your thumbs down…….

At least European Aristocracy and Upper Classes, successfully or not, ATTEMPTEED to abide by STANDARDS: education, taste, aesthetics of surroundings, knowledge of music, art, literature, languages……. Even if it was “fake” or “insincere” attempt, at least it was AN ATTEMPT IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION.

Because if you think you’ll ever make everyone “equal” – you are dreaming…… People are not born equal! All are entitled to “Food, Water and Shelter” but they will never be “equal”. Some are more capable, some are less. Some are more accomplished, some are less…… The “more whatever will ALWAYS try to rise to the top.

But it’s up to the “system” in the society to “filter” which “more” will raise to the top! And you guys let Paris Hilton rise to the top! And now you want her destroyed! Why?

She is “your creation!”.

You don’t want her? Well, then take down Ball Players portraits off the school walls that your children attend, and start by putting up on the walls of Schools the “heroes” that are worth it!

- Leonardo Da Vinci
- Galileo Galelley
- Copernicus
- Newton
- Shakespeare
- Homer
- Socrates
- Wallenberg
- Disraeli
- Mozart
- You name it……..

e) Plus on top of “all this” for SOME STRANGE REASON you have too much of “Tall Poppy syndrome”/Jantelowen running in your society…….

By all means, you have celebrities and famous people, but they must be “understood by mediocrity and the masses”…… Good morals, good behavior, good family values……. In your Figure Skating World, the American fans “loved and praised” Michelle Kwan! A VERY MEDIOCRE skater with nothing more than “consistency” as the main asset to win medals. At the same time you guys got Sasha Cohen, a rare flower with grace and elegance…….. But fans labeled her “Spoiled Jews Rich Girl”, and kept on loving the mediocre Michelle Kwan. Why? Because she was “average”, and Sasha Cohen was “special”.

You don’t like special people! Cut the head off the Tall Poppy!

What happened to the “American Dream” where one can be A UNIQUE ACCOMPLISHED INDIVIDUAL and that’s what makes it attractive?

Paris Hilton may NOT BE ACCOMPLISHED, but she is “unique” and Rich!...... :=).

And I am about “done so stick a fork in me”…….. :=).

How “Russian-snobby” is that for you?

[nowingker]

Hallelujah sister!

I agree w/everything except I think Paris DID deserve a jail sentence, not because of the violation itself but because of the contempt she showed the entire legal process.

First, she gets off on DUI, all she has to do is go to some drunk driving counseling, she fails to do that, she continues driving with a suspended license, gets stopped AGAIN, signs a form showing she knows she has no license, and then gets stopped AGAIN doing the exact same thing, plus she was speeding and driving w/the lights off.

The only reason she is in the special wing of the jail is because she's Paris Hilton, a non celeb would be in the regular old county jail. Her 'medical condiction' is more bullshit, she has no medical condition other than being depressed becuase she is in jail, a condition likely shared by every inmate in California. She is still getting special treatment, better treatment, not harsher treatment.

[seekeronos]

It looks like I may have misunderstood where you were coming from, Moscow.

I reckon that since (if you are honestly a European, and your minor dissertation of a post seems to support that) you are on the outside of the American experience, you do have some points worth considering.

Seeing the old, tired warhorses of the Identity Politics movement (particularly Sharpton and Jackson) trot out thier usual polemics against the "white male oppressors" has become so commonplace so as to really no longer warrant much attention being paid them.

The desire for minorities (and especially blacks - or for the "PC" among us, African-Americans) to improve their lot must begin on a personal level. The leftists among us (like Nowingker) would have us continue status quo with all manner of small handouts and affirmative actions and other sorts of state behaviour that has enobled the poor blacks as an "entitled class" (perversely, in the same process, inhibiting their desire to take such steps as needed to improve their education and move beyond the ghetto, and rather prey upon each other, and the unfortunate whites that stumble into their clutches at late hours [cf. the Newsome/Christian murders]...)

As for European Aristocracy, and the smothering elitism that attends it, why do you complain so much about the lack of it in America? If indeed you are a European, and therefore are above such base and common standards of living and the base, deplored American "mass consumer/popular culture" which gives rise to folks such as Britney, Paris (wealthy in her own right, without respect to innate talent) or Brad Pitt... why are you bothered about how Americans conduct themselves and (perhaps foolishly) exalt the idols of their own making?

I'd dare say that if we had truly wanted to have part and parcel with Old Europe, we'd likely never had severed our ties to the British Crown (evidence of this bears true for Canada, which remained subordinate to the Crown for quite some time longer than the USA)... we would have kept our Lords and nobles and all that sort of refinement which speaks well of Europe, but not as well to our independent spirits and our desire to master this part of the New World our ancestors had found.

Some things European we have kept for ourselves, many others we have changed to suit our "taste" (or as you have it, our lack thereof), and still other things we have rejected outright. Wearing sneakers and jeans to the opera? You bet!

Or better still, a "rock opera". Verdi and Mozart may have worn tracks inside thier caskets from turning in their coffins for what we have done to their noble art, but we'll have our own appreciation for thier work by giving it another uniquely American dimension.

As for any charges of "American cultural Imperialism", well... if you don't like hamburgers or jeans, or Paris Hilton, or McDonalds... nobody is forcing you to buy those things. Obviously, our cultural exports have a market, and people in foreign lands wish to buy. You don't? Fine, then show your disapproval by not buying our junk, and stop whinging about how nasty those "ugly Americans" are!

Concerning equal opportunities, this is a mixed bag. All men are created equal (in that they are born, they live, they pay taxes, they die, and are finally judged by an Almighty Creator), but not all are born into the same circumstances or with access to the same opportunities.

However, we all have opportunity to improve our lot, whether we are born into a lower-income working class family, a broken home, a trailer park, or even if we are born into wealth and fortune. In some respects, a person of poor means may often progress much farther relative to his original station than a man born into his wealth; this is much the basis of the American dream.

Do we care more to see the mediocre or the average succeed more so than the pampered children of privilege? Know it for certain!

Please understand that an affection for the underdog is very much rooted in our psyche, just as much as most of the people who immigrated from Europe were those who were cast-offs from European society, unable to prevail against the immoveable barriers set in their paths by the elites and their cronies.

Not everyone has the skill to be a pro ball player, or a rocket scientist. Some may not have much ability to be better than a ditch-digger, or a hewer of wood and drawer of water... but the spirit of the American can always afford the vision that the ditch-digger can become a doctor, or if not him, then his sons or daughters.

But I reckon that no matter who I try to lift up the better points of our (European-derived) but disctinctively American culture... folks like you, and no doubt, many would-be members of our snobbish "American" intelligentsia will spew forth anti-American invective all the more.

Finally, as touching Christianity... well, that is a cornerstone of our Republic. We have kept closer to our faith than our European cousins, where their faith was slowly extinguished by the vain reason of weak, mortal, and foolish humans. The predations of science inflated by the vain and pompous intelligentsia who sought to replace the prelates and popes of Rome as the intellectual authorities of the world have snuffed out the fair strands of a faith which called out to God, believing in the One who is greater than, and Creator of All.

No doubt there is sin, but we have less of the wanton collapse of morality that has afflicted Eurabia, and have not yet become a prey to the malicious servants of Mohammed which even now threaten to tread the lands of Charlemagne, Friedrich Barbarossa, Harlad Hadrada and Svein Forkbeard under the dark, demonic shadows of the "Relgion of Peace" so falsely called.

I'd love to labour even further on these things, but I must go make money. Gotta pay them bills. :)

[nowingker]

The leftists among us (like Nowingker) would have us continue status quo with all manner of small handouts and affirmative actions and other sorts of state behaviour that has enobled the poor blacks as an "entitled class" (perversely, in the same process, inhibiting their desire to take such steps as needed to improve their education and move beyond the ghetto, and rather prey upon each other, and the unfortunate whites that stumble into their clutches at late hours [cf. the Newsome/Christian murders]...)
-------------

You must have missed where I agreed with everything she said.

I defy you to find any post i ever made that agreed with affirmative action or hand outs based on race. You will never find anything I said that remotely shows I agree w/this.

[seekeronos]

If that is the case, I humbly retract my earlier statement. However, historically... the left has been the wing of the "big dole" and "something for nothing".

My apologies.

[nowingker]

All liberals are not created equal:)

I've been against affirmative action ever since years ago I worked for a city government where white people with perfect scores on their firefighter or police exams who came from long time law enforcement familes had to wait YEARS to get jobs while minority candidates who got 80's were given jobs and I watched how giving these less qualified minorities bred resentment of white officers and distrust of the black officers, in short, the very act of affirmative action INCREASED racial tension and distrust, the opposite of its intention.

[imaginewhirledpeas]

The Russian chick hit the nail on the head several times. Of course most people who actually ever lived in a caste society do see through our wierdness. Don't believe she spent much time as an adult in the Soviet Union though.

BTW: the 72 hour sentence for DUI was for the first time. It did not include several warnings and breaking probation.

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