Andrew J. Bacevich. 1st Lt, 3/8 Cav, 1st Cav

Jules notes the death of on of our best:

“He joined the Army to serve his country in time of need. We love him and mourn his loss.”  And a photo of his beloved son, who looks exactly like him, smiling, with bright eyes, at Patrol Base Love, Iraq.

So Andy Bacevich begins the terrible journey of a father who has to bury a son, and decide for himself what it means.

At HuffPo, Steve Clemmons has already decided. It means anti-war propaganda, of course.

What is Andrew Bacevich's Son's Life Worth?

To answer my own question above. Andrew Bacevich's son's life was precious -- and his life and his untimely death matter greatly for just waking up and realizing we are achieving nothing in Iraq today and that responsibility must be borne by the perpetrators of this mess.

So precious, apparently, Clemmons simply couldn't wait to dash that off, I guess. What a disgrace.

Comments

[richard]

I do hope your readers all go and read Clemmons' tribute to this soldier. It is achingly poignant, and it asks all the right questions. What exactly did he die for? Was his death necessary? "How many deaths will it take 'til we know that too many people have died?" The answer isn't just blowing in the wind, but rather standing still right in front of our faces. Nearly all soldiers in every war will tell you they believe in what they are fighting in. Ask the Japanese soldiers in WWII, the Germans in both world wars, the RAF fighting off the Battle of Britain, and the list goes on. Just because the soldiers believe the fight is noble and should be fought doesn't justify an unjust and unnecessary war. The deaths Clemmons describes so eloquently - civilian and military - are so tragic because there was simply no need, no matter how many hollow and meaningless slogans Karen Hughes and Karl Rove spoon-feed the media ("We're fighting them in Iraq so we won't have to fight them here"). Not a word Clemmons writes falls into the category of propaganda, merely common sense. It's gratifying to see the nation finally waking up to this, though it's hard to picture the agony of the soldiers' loved ones as the realize that they truly did die in vain.

We cannot even articulate what our victory would look like. Unlike in WWII, where we were literally fighting for our lives, this time around the reasons are amorphous and always seem to be changing (WMDs... Saddam... liberty... democracy... Al Qaeda... and whatever the reason du jour may be. How anyone can continue to support it is confounding, though luckily such die-hards are becoming a minority. Readers who go to my own site will see I am no wild-eyed liberal. I dedicate a lot of my life to revealing the crimes and misdemeanors of the Chinese Communist Party. I simply believe that any patriotic, conservative American is and must be against this war, which betrays every fundamental conservative value. So again, click the link Dan provides to Clemmons' moving post and ask yourself, Is he really wrong? No, I don't think so.

[Buzzy]

Richard, you limp assed punk. What you and your kind fail to understand is that it is you and your kind that makes a soldier losing his life have no meaning, it is you that failed this soldier and many others in this conflict and you that spit on the graves of not only the warriors that fell before him but also the graves of the victims of 9/11, the mass graves of the kurds, sunni and shi'a that are still being uncovered in the vast Iraqi desert.

We are fighting just as much for our lives today in Iraq and Afghanistan as we were fighting in WWII, it's just that you fail to wrap your little mind around it. Do understand that it's not that I accept the spineless reasons the Bush administration keeps giving for why we need to exit with Iraq a stable government but that I accept the spineless reasons your kind keep giving for surrender even less.

[Fred Beloit]

richard, I started out by typing the vilest insults I could think of for you. On second thought, I want to thank you. I want to thank you because in the modern world there is a tendency to forget or deny that some people are just evil, evil because they choose to be. But you are living proof that such people are among us. We must never forget that. Thanks for the reminder.

[Phoenix]

"We cannot even articulate what our victory would look like."

Maybe not. But we've already had many chances to see what failure will look like.

What a piece of work you are, Richard. Do you have a body counter on your blog you gloat over every day? Rewind it to 1620 and no doubt you'll be positively orgasmic in your delight.

[Ali]

Richard, while you were checking the crimes and misdemeanors of the Communist Chinese, did you take a gander at what happened in Vietnam, Cambodia and Laos after the war?

We're attempting to build the military, you probably would love us to get rid of it all together... while the Chicoms are building their army and navy like wildfire. I served under Carter, Reagan and Clinton, what was done to the military is beneath contempt. When these troops return (especially if a democrat is elected president), you can expect the draft; Like under Clinton, myself and many others who didn't get thrown in the street will leave... and no one will serve.

I guess you're right. We'll just sit here and get attacked for another ten years with no response. Obviously you need to read the captured Iraq documents... your view on the wrong war will disappear.

Where are all the men?

[richard]

Wow, I'm evil. I just want to stop or boys from dying in a senseless war I once supported. Thanks for sharing, Tuesday. Are the other 65 percent of Americans who agree with me also evil? Is Rick Moran of Right Wing Nut House and George Will and Brent Scowcroft? You'll have your war for another few months, then at election time it'll come to an end. And you'll see - we won't be fighting the Iraqi insurgents here. It's now a civil sectarian war, and the thought of losing another America life to ensure Iraq is ruled by a pro-Iran theocracy is too depressing to countenance. Hold onto your illusions if they make you feel better. But the truth is, the war is over, and all we can do now is hope to get out with as little shame and disgrace as possible. It didn't have to be this way, but we put all our trust in a bunch of neo-con dilettantes, went in with too few troops and lost the crucial window of opportunty. Now the very people we went in to liberate are trying to kill us and no one can define how we can win and what our victory should look like. Oh, and if you are aware of some Iraqi documents that might cause me to change my mind, just offer the link. And tell us why George Bush isn't out talking about them (the documents). I hope they're as reliable as all those famous documents about aluminum tubes and stashes of WMDs that led us into this catastrophe.

[Phoenix]

"...we won't be fighting the Iraqi insurgents here."

We never were.

About that 65% of Americans who support you: 45% of them couldn't find Iraq on a map.

You know your argument is already lame when you preface all your retorts with a list of people who support your views. Just because some asinine poll says something does not make it right. As well, it might do you some good to think beyond WMD, documents, etc., and try to gain a foothold into some neocon futuristic thinking to figure out why we *really* need to be in Iraq. Your talking points are worn-out, boring, and at this point, embarrassing.

[Zifnab]

"So Andy Bacevich begins the terrible journey of a father who has to bury a son, and decide for himself what it means."

Shut up, Dan! Shut up! You're demoralizing our troops! Why do you hate America?!

Andy Bacevich will be joining over 3000 of his fellow soldiers. Yet mentioning this fact always ends up being declared "propoganda" drummed up by the Defeatocrats - that is until the government can fabricate a "good death" like Pat Tillman's. At least Clemmons didn't need to make bullshit up about Bacevich's time in the service.

[ET]

Consider this:

A father respects his son and his country so much that he supports his son's decision to serve in a war he opposes.

The father is free to express his opposition to the war.

The son serves with honor and is killed fighting for his country.

The father now grieves.

Both of these men deserve our respect and admiration.

Though tragic, the situation illustrates a lot of what is good about American values.

Many of us believe the conflict in Iraq to be a noble cause, but that doesn't mean we don't mourn every single life that is lost. On the contrary, we honor their commitment and their sacrefice. We pray for them and their families.

Before the liberals start trivializing this tragedy for their partisan purposes, let's all just take as moment to give the Bacevich family time to process their loss, and have some respect for their pain.

[Fred Beloit]

richard uses the term "Iraqi insurgents" in his comment. There are some of them in Iraq, but many people doing the killing over there are not Iraqis and they are not "insurgents". They are foreign terrorists. But how does one distinguish between an insurgent and a terrorist. This is not difficult. I venture even richard could do it if he wanted to. Insurgents fight the forces of their government or a government, specifically the military and police. Terrorists, not so brave and a lot more ruthless, murder civilians deliberately. I do not have enough information to tell which type killed Lt. Bacevich. One thing seems clear. Lt. Bacevich was where he was supposed to be. The motto of the Infantry School at Ft. Benning, GA, responsible for training company-grade officers like Lt. Bacevich for the Infantry branch of the Army, is "Follow Me". Lt Bacevich was leading his men and sharing danger with them, as he was expected to do. His father must be proud of his son, even in his mourning. As for richard, I guess he calls them as he sees them; so do I.

[Fred Beloit]

Oh, and richard uses the term "our boys" in reference to soldiers like Lt. Bacevich. Wrong on both counts. Since richard opposes what the soldiers in Iraq are doing, he has no right to use the word "our" with reference to them. And they are most assuredly not boys but men.

[Kathy]

So it's anti-war propaganda to point out that Andrew Bacevich, Jr.'s, father opposed the war in Iraq. That must mean it's pro-war propaganda to praise Bacevich, Jr.'s, death and call him "one of our best" because he was blown up by an IED in a senseless war.

I'd say he was one of our best before he went to Iraq, and he would have been one of our best if he hadn't gone to Iraq. His random, violent death in Iraq is not what makes him "one of our best."

It really devalues this young man's life to imply that it was his death that made him one of our best.

[Kathy]

"Many of us believe the conflict in Iraq to be a noble cause, but that doesn't mean we don't mourn every single life that is lost."

Every single American life that is lost, I think you mean.

[Phoenix]

"It really devalues this young man's life to imply that it was his death that made him one of our best."

I think not. Nice twist there, Kathy, but this man died in a noble cause. He wasn't a member of the blods or crips dying in a gutter for naught. No one is implying that there is no honor if one of our soldiers lives. Get your act together.

"Every single American life that is lost, I think you mean."

You're a mind-reader, as well as an idiot looking for a fight? We mourn anyone who dies fighting for freedom.

[tally]

spot on ET.

[Rachel]

what scares me about richard's viewpoint is the he holds the same sheer ignorance of the consequences of his beliefs; it's not any different from the "victory is around the corner" crowd.

You once supported the war, Richard, now that you don't do you want to pack it in and leave Iraq to worse consequences? Are you responsible enough to accept that possiblity? Or is cheap rhetoric the best you can do?

[Zifnab]

"No one is implying that there is no honor if one of our soldiers lives."

I don't know how you measure honor, Phoenix. But if honor has a price-tag, Bush has been regularly devaluing it by repeatedly slashing the budget for the VA and hospitals like Walter Reed. Just by the numbers, it seems the Republican Party would prefer a soldier die on the battlefield than come home and put the squeeze on their precious tax cuts.

"We mourn anyone who dies fighting for freedom."

Offically? We aren't allowed to mourn our dead. Can't show them on TV. Can't mention them in the news without being labeled defeatists. Can't count them if they're not wearing the Stars and Stripes - when was the last time you heard a tally of the number of Iraqi soldiers who died fighting the insurgency, after all? Like in the case of Pat Tillman, we can't even tell the true story of how they lost their lives in combat.

I don't know what your definition of "mourning the dead" is, but I have seen precious little of it in our country since we went to war. As the number of our dead soldiers climb, Republicans seem interested in talking about the price of war less and less. Mourning the dead is too "political" for Republicans now that the War has a negative impact on their poll numbers.

[Fred Beloit]

It would be very surprising to hear the cockeyed views of those who "supported" the war in the beginning but oppose it now. What does this mean? "I supported the war before I knew anybody would get hurt?" How could someone think that nobody would get killed or hurt in a war? Or "I supported the war, but it is lasting too long or more are getting killed than I thought would." Here again, did they have a specific number of months or casualties in mind beyond which they would not support the war? "If more than 24 months go by and we are still at war I will no longer support it. If more than 100 are killed I will no longer support it." Or did they perceive some sort of victory by the enemy? But then what victory? There was/is no victory by the enemy to perceive. In our last peacenik-opposed war, Viet Nam, we had a draft. Many in our military were conscripted by force from the population of those who had no political connections or didn't have enough fear of the draft or smarts to become graduate students in one of the protected fields of study. But now we have a volunteer military. Those in it want to be in it. They were not forced. The overwhelming majority of them want to finish the job in Iraq. It is not a case of "Mommy, I want to go home". Our men and women in uniform often sign up for more than one tour in Iraq. It seems they are saying: "Mommy, let me stay and win." "Sure I supported the war, but I never would have supported the war if I thought we were in it to win." Zifnab, please go out and eat some pork chops wrapped in bacon. There is just no way I can describe the contempt I have for those who use our war dead for propaganda.

[Zifnab]

How about, "I supported the war before I realized Donald Rumsfeld was an incompetent hack"?

Are you allowed to stop supporting the war when you realize the administration is mismanaging the hell out of it?

[Shochu John]

Buzzy says, "Do understand that it's not that I accept the spineless reasons the Bush administration keeps giving for why we need to exit with Iraq a stable government but that I accept the spineless reasons your kind keep giving for surrender even less."

So you don't believe in either the mission nor abandoning said mission? What do you believe in?

Rachel, "You once supported the war, Richard, now that you don't do you want to pack it in and leave Iraq to worse consequences? Are you responsible enough to accept that possiblity?"

What precisely do you think can be accomplished in Iraq that will make these worse consequences less likely when we eventually have to leave Iraq in the hands of Iraqis?

[Shochu John]

Buzzy says, "Do understand that it's not that I accept the spineless reasons the Bush administration keeps giving for why we need to exit with Iraq a stable government but that I accept the spineless reasons your kind keep giving for surrender even less."

So you don't believe in either the mission nor abandoning said mission? What do you believe in?

Rachel, "You once supported the war, Richard, now that you don't do you want to pack it in and leave Iraq to worse consequences? Are you responsible enough to accept that possiblity?"

What precisely do you think can be accomplished in Iraq that will make these worse consequences less likely when we eventually have to leave Iraq in the hands of Iraqis?

[Phoenix]

Zif,

In keeping with your ditzy comments to me: Here's how I value honor: Get honor and stay honor.

.
Now, if you want a serious answer, ask serious questions. Or answer a few: What would you have done after 9/11 had you been president? What do you think would be the most honorable thing to do at this stage in our geopolitical actions?

[A Gold Star Mom]

To All of you, weak, mouth-blabbering, cowardish nincompoops (on both sides): lay off your weak, silly boistrous, politically correct/incorrect, philosophical-wannabe (yet ludicrous) and vapid comments, and go join your war-fighting sisters and brothers.
When you obtain your laurels of serving your country, you may come (on this or similar sites)and serve us your opinions on this war and its Heroes.

[Fred Beloit]

Gold Star Mom is just one of the usual trolls trying to disrupt things. "Take the service flag out of the window, mother, your son's in the ROTC." We ROTC cadets used to sing that at Ft. Riley way back when to the tune of Bring Back My Bonnie to Me. In fact I think it is the BoobinBridgeport wrapped in the flag. He's nasty enough to pull a stunt like this.

[Phoebe]

Fred Beloit: not only you cannot post a coherent and sensible message in your postings, you are also irreverent.
And, if you ever were in ROTC "way back when" (as you claim...), you are now a disgrace to them. Folks like you, I call them "armchair heroes" and/or "couch-rebels" who prey on well-meaning bloggers by insulting them with their demagogic, vastly ignorant and inconsiderate blurts.

[Mitchell]

While I disagree with him, I see nothing wrong with what Richard wrote. It bothers me that those on "my side" would attack him like this. Shame on you. Differences of opinion, debate, argument, criticism - these are all healthy things for a country - especially in a time of war.

Stop getting hysterical and bashing people just because they disagree with you.

My sympathies to the Bacevich family and friends. RIP.

p.s. The father, who is anti-war conservative, is also a Vietnam vet. Show HIM the respect he has earned by conducting yourselves in an appropriate manner.

[insearchofrespect]

Sad, sad, sad.

As someone who went to BU with Andy, had mutual friends, graduated from the the College of Communication with him in 2003, and as someone who has also served in the military, that's what keeps going through my head as I read these conversations.

It is unfortunate that this exceptional human being suffered the ultimate loss at such a young age--and during a conflict that is so tough for all of us to comprehend (OR justify: regardless of the isle-side you occupy).

It is terrible that his dad's criticism of the war has to be brought up everywhere Andy Jr's name is mentioned (even Andy's obituaries fail to honor ONLY him); and while some may cite his father as the cause of this, I beg to differ. His dad is an equally honorable man who has a sobering message for anyone trying to contemplate the mess Iraq has become. Although I have no doubt that this man's love of his father is related to his choice of profession, I wish people would recognize him for the amazing person he was as opposed to who he is related to.

Finally, it is a tragedy that, in light of this heartbreak, I can't find any discussion about Andrew Bacevich Jr, the war, or related politics that isn't abbreviated by people being JUST PLAIN CRUMBY to each other. Come on! I play no sides here, other than that of someone wishing that the element of anonymity didn't ALWAYS turn otherwise respectable folks into rascals and thugs. I wish we would all be more considerate and thoughtful of each other, and respect the fact that these online forums are some of the last places people will ever hear or talk about Andy Bacevich's life. Dozens of Andy's friends are stationed around the world--many in harm's way in Iraq...and they are reading this while trying to come to grips with what has happened. Please just consider this when choosing your words. Goodbye Andy...we miss you and will do all we can to remember your sacrifice.

[CAREY, U.S. ARMY (Operation Iraqi Freedom Vet)]

To Those who KNOW we must continue to Good Fight In Iraq and Afghanistan - and Fighting Terrorism around the World:

Richard and the other cowards and Defeatocrat Party know NOTHING of sacrifice, and what it takes to keep our Freedom. They demonstrate it with their Ignorance each and everyday. Like Bubba, they live their lives by the POLLS as well.

Thank GOD for President Bush, who does what is necessary everyday, without consulting these LOSERS for their opinions. You won't sway the Defeatocrats either - it's ALL about the Election of 2008, and trying to get Billary in the White House. What a SHAM!

1LT Bacevich will be remembered for his service and sacrifice. Though I never knew him here, I've seen Memorials of many of our Fine Soldiers who paid the Ultimate Sacrifice for Our Freedom. God Bless and Comfort the Bacevich Family - Your Sacrifice is not in Vain, but sad nonetheless. Please know that I will keep you in my Prayers.