VA Tech: More Names Being Released

Update: A chilling narrative

Suddenly, sometime after 9 a.m., a young man walked into the German class with two handguns and shot instructor Christopher James Bishop in the head.

Then he began firing at the students. Shot after shot, “some 30 shots in all,” said Trey Perkins, who was seated in the back of the German class. There were about 15 students, and Perkins said the relentless gunman had a “very serious but very calm look on his face.”

Students using this site to identify survivors.

Wasn't certain I had the correct Ryan Clark before, unfortunately the NY Times confirms. Image of him with a group here - scroll down. Gateway Pundit has a more clear image of him alone and links to other victims. Michelle Malkin has several posts.

Personnel: 
     Ryan “Stack” Clark is a senior from Augusta, Georgia and will complete both his biology and english degree this December. This is his fifth year in the Marching Virginians for whom he currently serves as personnel officer. Prior to this, Stack served the Marching Virginians for 2 years as co-librarian. Stack is also a member of Circle K and is a resident advisor in West Ambler Johnston. After graduating (December 2006), Stack intends to pursue a Ph.D. in psychology with a focus in cognitive neuroscience. Stack enjoys making t-shirts with his partner in crime, Kim Daniloski, and haggling with street vendors.

Update: An Israeli lecturer was killed at Va Tech

The first item is from the Indian press. It confirms part of a FaceBook posting.

Reports have it that an Indian-origin professor is among those killed in the campus massacre.

Professor G V Loganathan of the Department of Civil and Environmental Engineering was teaching in a class in the Norris Hall – one of the crime scenes – when the gunman went on rampage.

From a Hokie sports board:

Subject: CEE Update - More Bad News (From Facebook about 1 min ago) 
Posted by: MCVHokie on Tue Apr 17 2007 12:05:11 AM 
Message:

To The Faculty, Staff, and Students of the CEE Department, It is with great regret and personal sadness that I report to you that I have received information that indicates that we have tragically lost several
members of our Department as a result of the shootings that took place earlier
today.

Professor G.V. Loganathan was killed in his classroom, along with graduate student Juan Ortiz and senior student Jarrett Lane. At this time I have no other confirmed information regarding fatalities. We do know
that some students were taken to local hospitals, and there are multiple students in the Advanced Hydrology course that we have no information on.

I would encourage all to follow information as it is posted to the VT website. There will be a community service tomorrow at 2 p.m. in Cassell Coliseum.

I must apologize for the brevity of this message, but words cannot begin to express the loss that we all feel at this time. Please keep the families of Dr. Loganathan, Juan and Jarrett in your thoughts and prayers. Pray
also for the others that remain hospitalized or unaccounted for at this time.

Dr. Knocke

Comments

[bloodrage bob]

it's odd that the cops are so slow in releasing the guy's name. the same cops with unlimited computerage; access to vast databases; onsite fingerprint recognition via PDA's.....

can't quite get around to identifying the guy. strange.

another troubling note is, i heard some of the press conference the cops gave earlier. the answers offered were carefully vague and nonspecific; and the guy speaking made quite the effort to deflect troublesome questions regarding detailed specifics of the police response. you know what it sounded like more than anything? like the cops at columbine; dodging and weaving and ducking, trying to get folks to not notice the absolutely *miserable* job they did that day.

it sounded like.....like the cops are trying to cover something up. sure hope i'm wrong.....but why then don't we have the guy's name by now? 15 frickin' HOURS later?

[Cindi]

Bob, I have to agree. When I started listening to the press conference, I was amazed at the stupid questions presented by the press. And although they remain stupid, the cops screwed up. We as a country do not know how to handle something like this. We are unable to think outside the box. These cops gathered their info at the first site and determined it was "domestic." Which is an obvious summary in a case like this. What we and law enforcement in this country are not able to grasp is the horrific approach some are able to take. We cannot grasp the fact that someone will kill so many at one time. We need to start thinking like killers. Sad to say. We live in a country that fails to see how evil some can be. Not a bad thing, until you face an event like today. Like they say hind site is 20./20, we have to stop thinking as civil human beings and start thinking like killers.

[Dan Riehl]

could be the guy is related to a chinese mucky muck and they want it coming out slowly.

[Phoenix]

"We need to start thinking like killers. Sad to say. We live in a country that fails to see how evil some can be."

This is so wrong. We need to live in a country where we don't have to think like killers. We could not live lives of optimism and hope if we give in to this kind of evil. We need to fight it by stopping the blame game and putting an end to instantaneous, knee-jerk - it was someone else's fault. I'm so damn sad I can't sleep. I think of how the Amish handled their crisis and how they moved on. It seems impossible to me, but what seems even more impossible to me is that we can start the blame game so fast. Does anyone for one second think the authorities and police would not have moved heaven and earth to stop this.

Most of us think of violence as an abstraction, but it never is. It's always ugly, it always demeans and dehumanizes, it always shocks and repulses and leaves the witnesses to it sick and shaken. And it's meant to do all those things. We cannot descend to that. We can't accept that tragedy is when something is so broken that with the best will in the world, we can't put it back together again. We cannot remain civilized and accept that what is broken must stay broken.

This is all so horrific that we need to give ourselves time to calm our collective grief before we give into thinking things will stay broken. We have to figure out a way to fight it. Not just this incident, though it defies every belief system we have, but to continue to fight those who live to blame us for all the evil in the world.

[Fred Beloit]

Have to agree with Phoenix. The media in cases like this, especially the all-day media need to fill up their air time with pure speculation when they are short on facts. All other news ceases to exist. Shows you how unimportant the day-to-day news really is. I did read some good news just now via LGF, however. The Minneapolis-St Paul Airport Commission has voted 11 to 0 to suspend Muslim cab drivers who turn away customers because of Sharia Law or other religious reasons. WE don't have to think like killers, Cindi. We just have to think like Americans (not like the mutant Lefties) have always thought.

[nowinger]

LGF, yep, those are true Americans over there. Wingers convinced the 'asian' was really a middle eastern man but the media was covering it up. Convinced that despite all evidence to the contrary, this was a terrorist attack. As soon as the first report about this tragedy came out they started with their anti arab nonsense. Pretty soon the boogyman will be an arab too, if he isn't already. Disgraceful.

[BobInStamford]

Buddhists hate our freedom.

[Fred Beloit]

Over where, noyyyinger? Where are you getting all this drivel? Kos, I suppose. Personally, I'm going to wait until a lot more facts are known. Tell me, did you find the news from Minneapolis to be good news, my sweetheart of the mountains?

[nowinger]

You mean the drivel posted on LITTLE GREEN FOOTBALLS, where they are STILL even this morning convinced it was a terrorist attack and that the arab student who was interviewed last night was in on it. Even that this was a LONG TERM plot by the IslamOfascists to disarm the American public. Or that even IF the shooter was Chinese, he might still have been a muslim?????

People have to do their jobs. If your job is to be a pharmacist you have to give out birth control pills. If you are so agaisnt birth control pills then you should have gone into another profession. Similarly, if you are a cab driver, your job is to drive a cab. If you are too offended by the 'western' clothing, baggage, etc. of people who hail cabs, then you need to get a different job.

[Fred Beloit]

Oh, Boob, I've been waiting for you, you snug-a-bed. Go to billroggio.com (The Fourth Rail) for some good news from Iraq. They are surging on you, you, you, guy you. I'm once again trying to be patient with y'all.

[Fred Beloit]

Why noyyyinger, I agree with your employment beliefs. But don't leave out the suspension from work part, I beg of you.

[nowinger]

What's the matter, nothing to say about Little Green Footballs once again showing itself to be a site populated by haters? Blinded by their irrational hate of muslims and arabs that they try and shoehorn any tragedy or violence into the worldview. It is EXACTLY the same as what the Nazis did with the Jews. E X A C T L Y.

[Fred Beloit]

And, I want to add, as you might have noticed from my comments above, I won't try to defend commenters speculating on LGF or any place else that this was a terrorist attack. More information on motive is needed and guessing is a waste of time.

[daveinboca]

The cops are miserable incompetent eff-ups, that is clear.

The clueless leftardo ban on concealed weapons, which are permitted by state law, to the student body makes no sense when a determined criminal/murderer walks around shooting people with no means of self-defense. To let brainless cops be the only weapons-carriers is simply ludicrous. There are so many examples of gross malfeasance, poor planning and incompetence that it's hard to fathom until you see Police Chief Finchum and understand the consequences of parallel first-cousin marriages. The cops thought it was all over when someone fled in a pick-up truck. Maybe thought it was a bootlegger who got burned selling bad hooch? No campus siren system necessary? No suspension of classes immediately?

Plus a murderous incident last August and no closed-circuit cameras or action plan? 3 bomb threats and no extra precautions taken? A double-homocide at 7 AM and no sirens or bullhorns to enforce a lockdown because of police confusion?

Yes, it's twenty-twenty hindsight, but some accountability should be in order, not the pattycake games people trying to paper over the lack of ELEMENTARY precautions demonstrated in the tragedy.

The real reality-based community wants answers to a wuss-brain VT president and a knuckle-walker Police Chief not taking the most elementary precautions---short-term or long-term.

[gloria]

Thank you for your excellent reporting. I've watched all this with horror and will never comprehend how communications broke down... fell apart... did not exist after the first murders when the entire campus should have been secured by law enforcement.

When we send our children to college we generally assume their safety and well-being are monitored by the college or university administration, a big assumption. People are already creating excuses -- no one was 'thinking outside the box,' (would someone tell me what is meant by "the Box"?!) there were 'no set procedures', and comparable excuses.

Fact is, there is no excuse for faulty judgement when it comes to one singular life and death matter. Every school had better come up with viable preventative measures and emergency plans that work. We have the means and manpower to at least attempt to prevent pre-meditated murder.

Even a few police trained German shepherd or other 'mascots' could deter crimes on a campus...

What we need are leaders with discernment. We do have great people to lead, and need to replace ignorant schoolbook bureaucrats with effective administrators. Meanwhile, the rest of us around the country are wondering what can we do for these Va Tech kids? I went to college in Va as did my father and brother before me... and have great memories of those days in the Blue Ridge. What can we do to help these students? Any ideas? Thanks, Gloria.

[Fred Beloit]

I'm not sure hating Muslims, not as a whole but the terrorists and those Muslims who wish to remake our society into a religious dictatorship, is irrational. In fact it is quite rational. It is in fact Liberal in the fine sense of the word.

[daveinboca]

could be the guy is related to a chinese mucky muck and they want it coming out slowly.

Yeah, it sounds like the "problem with ID" means "problem with senior Chinese official's numba-one son." If this were China, they'd be harvesting the organs like the bodies were a bunch of busted pinatas.

[nowinger]

I'm tired of hearing this bullshit about how you/LGF/wingers only hate the muslim terrorists who want to take over the country. I'm not aware of any muslim terrorists who want to take over the country, even Osama Bin Laden does not want to take over the country and turn it into a religious dictatorship, he wants to destroy America so he can be free to turn the ME into a religious dictatorship without any interfernce from the West.

I've read LGF, and its a hate site. That its a hate site populated by literate people with some knowledge of history and world politics makes it that much more tragic and dangerous. EVERY time there is any kind of violent act, EVERY time any arab or muslim is arrested or detained it is the same response: they're guilty, it was a dry run, its part of a long term plot. No arab is innocent, even those who the FBI and police say are innocent, are not innocent, they simply got away with it. LGF is a virtual lynch mob. One day, if things don't change the virtual lynch mob will get its hands on some real arab americans and string them up for real. Cause they're ALL guilty of something.

[Fred Beloit]

Noyyyinger, now see there you go again. You show a little common sense and then that little devil on your shoulder takes control again. I don't remember that the Jews were suicide bombing the Germans. I don't remember that they were refusing to serve Germans who were carrying pork roasts home from the market. I don't remember that Rabbis were encouraging their flock in the temples to kill Germans. And I look but do not see any mass exterminations and mass interments of innocents. EXACTLY. EXACTLY HYSTERIA ON YOUR PART.

[Fred Beloit]

Oh, Bin Laden only wants to destroy America not take it over. I see, well in that case let's get behind this noble cause of his and yours. How irrational of us to want to oppose him.

[nowinger]

I see. So a handful of muslim extremists out of 1.5 billion muslims means the parallel of unhampered, irrational hatred of an entire ethnic/religious group of people not applicable. When the wingers call for rounding up the arab muslims and forcing them to leave the country or imprisoning them it is NOT THE SAME as when the Germans did it to the Jews. When the wingers call Islam a religion of hate that should be wiped it, it is NOT THE SAME as when the Germans did it to the Jews. When arabs are likened to animals who are not the same as we are, that is NOT THE SAME as what was done to the Jews. In fact, I guess if we put them all in holocaust ovens for the good of society and the free world, proclaiming that our children would thank us that would be NOT THE SAME as what was done to the jews because some arabs and muslims have killed Westerners. Great, thanks. Very helpful.

[Fred Beloit]

If you have a problem with LGF, I don't, but if you do, why not tell LGF about it. I'm afraid I can't be of service in this matter. Nor am I responsible for everything said and done at LGF. They did do a good job exposing the Photoganda of our enemies though; I'll say that for them.

[Fred Beloit]

You call Iran and Syria, Hamas, Al Qaeda, the Taliban, and countless others a handful. Well, I disagree. Is it each and every Muslim? No. But you are turning a blind (but Leftistishly tear-filled eye (Time cries and let's you care) to the dangers right in front of our noses. Tears are not a useful instrument for survival.

[nowinger]

Yeah, too bad they couldn't have all accompanied Michele Malkin in her trip to uncover the fact that Associated Press made up Jamil Hussein.

Like most wingers, you can't tell the different terrorists apart. Hamas doesn't want to kill Americans, they want to kill Jews in the occupied territories. Now, if American soldiers turned up in the Occupied Territories my guess is, they'd want to kill them too. Hezbollah doesn't want to kill Americans in America, they want to kill ANYONE other than Southern Lebanese right thinking muslims who are in Lebanon, they also enjoy killing Israelis near the border. Iran and Syria want to oppress their neighbors, get more land and if possible, kill some jews along the way. The only organization that wants to directly attack the west was Al Quada.

[Fred Beloit]

I wonder, could you point to six, not six million, but just six, Muslims who have been rounded up here and put in camps simply because they are Muslims? You are in that parallel universe we often divine when communicating with you folks.

[nowinger]

It is and was a huge mistake to turn all these various terrorist groups and terrorist supporting states with differnt goals and agendas into the monolithic 'IslamOfascists who hate us for our freedom" Different tactics are needed for each one of those groups and each one of those states. Treating them all like Bin Laden an Al Quada is stupid and counterproductive.

[nowinger]

I never said any muslims had been rounded up in camps, I said this is what LGF and the wingers call for. Depending on the size and scope of the next successful terrorist attack it may or may not happen. I can point to more than six muslims who were rounded up, rendered to foreign countries, tortured and then cleared of all wrong doing, including the guy from Canda who got a multi million settlement, does that count?

[Fred Beloit]

So, since the leader of Al Qaeda is a Saudi, and most of the 9/11 attackers were Saudis, we should attack Saudi Arabia. But you don't want us to attack anyone. You don't want us to defend our society from anyone. You hate our society. Our society is all wrong, except for our employment policies I guess, according to you. We need to get out of Iraq now so the butchers can take over and better organize the slaughter. Where will your tears be then? You are neglecting to face the threat of the Islamists. They exist in many countries and are not going to go away. I don't accuse you of genocide. Please don't accuse me of it.

[Fred Beloit]

LGF has never called for rounding up anyone and putting them in camps. You are exaggerating again.

[Fred Beloit]

Please don't misrepresent me like that. I said rounded up simply because they were Muslims, not because they were accused or suspected of crimes.

[nowinger]

I'm not a fan of attacking states for the actions of non state actors, but hey, thats just me. However, a crack down on Saudi money going to support radical islam and a demand that the House of Saud show some tangible progress in battling same would have been a more productive, reasonable and responsible course of action than invading a country with no ties to 9/11 that wasn't even the birthplace of any of the 9/11 attackers. Maybe we could have demanded somebody in Dubai, where they are embarked for the west, crack down on terrorists living there and traveling around to various ME countries from there. The problem with wingers is the only 'defense' you undertand is a military defense. I would suggest we 'attack' those who attack us, that would be Al Quada and Hezbollah. Iraq doesn't figure into it at all. The other problem with wingers is you still won't admit the truth of why we invaded Iraq, now that the thing has gone to shit, nobody wants to remember the neocons grand strategy for the ME, remember, the road to Jerusalem goes through Baghdad? The transformative power of democracy by invasion? Setting up Iraq as a counterbalance to Iran?

I hate our society, yaddayaddayadda.

[Fred Beloit]

You are a faster typist than I am, that's for sure. Throwing in outrageous exaggerations that can't be allowed to go unchallenged takes time too. Should I try that tactic with you to slow you down?

[nowinger]

I think accusing me of hating American society would count as an outragious exaggeration, no?

[Fred Beloit]

Every attempt the Left has tried to negotiate with the rogue states has been a miserable failure. Look at Korea, look at Iran, look at Syria. What if the Saudi's tell us to stick our demands?

[Fred Beloit]

Yes, I apologize.

[nowinger]

So, let me get this straight. If a person is taken into custody, stripped nake, has a hood thrown over his head, is water boarded, interrogated then rendered to a third world country where is he tortured and it is found that he's INNOCENT, that's no big deal. He was 'suspected' of a crime so that makes anything done to him as nececessary. He doesn't even get an apology. I'm sorry, this is the way terrorist states work, not America. You aren't guilty until proven innocent no matter what your religion or background. We don't get to torture and abuse you for a few months or years and then decide we had the wrong guy, no harm no foul. I don't accept that.

[Fred Beloit]

Look, it's 9:00 AM here in the Panhandle and I have miles to go before I sleep. Speaking of sleep, it seems we have put all the others to sleep or otherwise have driven them off. Until manana.

[Fred Beloit]

The people who did that and took photos went to jail. I don't know why, none of it was "torture". It is just that we are used to having wars with civilized people so by comparison it looked like torture. I went through worse than this pledging my fraternity and in Army training in how to withstand harsh treatment when captured. Today we are fighting total savages, not civilized Europeans. Think about it, don't feel about it.

[nowinger]

The Saudis are fucking crooks. We could start by refusing the sell them any more weapons. Now, it is likely that if we did so they would go to the Russians and/or the Chinese. If we had had a rational approach to the ME, instead of sticking our head in the sand and saying 'you bad, me no talk to you' to several critical countries we might have opened some back door diplomatic avenues to Iran, thereby scaring the shit out of the Saudis and bringing them back in line. We might also try and get some bang for our buck with the Egyptians, another hot bed of American hatred, Israeli hatred that our BILLIONS have done nothing to change, that to me says we're not managing our investment very well, the money is going into a black hole, just like it did with the Shah and one day, when somebody less friendly takes over as Egypts dictator, we will be dumbfounded. We should have taken the Iranians up on their offer from 2001 I think, we stood only to gain, we didn't have to give anything up other than some stupid rhetoric. As for Iraq, there isn't any excuse for what has happened. You don't invade a critically strategic country with the idea that it will all work out okay because America is a great country. You need a plan that takes into account the REALITY of the political, economic and military situation. We fucked up Iraq from the beginning and the refusal to admit mistakes were made is inexcusable. We need to get over the Iranian hostage situation from 30 years ago. Iran is a regional power, let's contain them, reign them in and try to support moderates inside the country. Toppling the government or invading the country is not a realistic option. All stick and no carrot is not a strategy for success outside the keyboard.

[Hard Right]

Fred, NoWinger is mentally ill. You might as well try to talk to that homeless guy on the corner talking to people that aren't there.

[Fred Beloit]

All I have to say about all this is you're a little late. You should have run for office prior to 9/11. Everything would be fine now. Just like Munich prevented WWII. BTW, we invaded Iraq because we and everybody else thought they had WMD and that Saddam would use it. This after 19 UN resolutions and Saddam's non-cooperation with UN inspectors. We didn't go to war because we "are a great country", though of course we are.

[Fred Beloit]

Well, it is just that I don't like the baseless charges to go unchallenged. But I'm through for today.

[nowinger]

Considering that we put Paul Wolfowitz in charge of sifting through intelligence reports...the same dumbfuck who was against the antiballistic missle treaty and the same dumbfuck who was sure the CIA was wrong about the weakened state of the Soviet union pre-break up...its no wonder the Administration was sure Saddam had WMD. Nothing like putting a career neocon hack whose been wrong about all the major foreign policy issues of his career in charge of a pre emptive war.

[nowinger]

PS, the single shooter has been ID'd as a South Korean, I look forward to watching the wingers spin this as a muslim plot, or maybe they will call for bombing of South Korea or a moratorium on South Korean immigration. Can't wait.

[Hard Right]

NoBrain, there aren't ANY Asian muslims, are there? There aren't ANY asian muslims who are terrorists are there? We aren't currently fighting a war on terror are we? Terrorists have no history of going places where lots of people are are gunning them down, do they? You leftists are so retarded.
LGF speculation was premature and incorrect-possibly. Yet you thought you had proof of something and latched on regardless of how flimsy it was in true mental patient fashion. Take your Zyprexa and shut up.

[nowinger]

I didn't think I has proof, the proof is all over LGF with the insane ideas that the media reported the shooter as being Asian when he was an arab, the insane idea that this was part of a muslim plot to disarm America, when you start talking about Chinese muslims you are reaching, you are trying too hard to fit a square peg in a round hole. It's also pretty stupid to think that IslamOfasist terrorist would pick Virginia Tech as their next target. Yeah, World Trade Center, the Pentagon and then, for a second round, a college campus. The whole idea that this was a terrorist attack was stupid and unsupported by any fact save a hateful imagination from the beginning.

[Hard Right]

There are no Chinese Muslims? You didn't know that China has a problem with some of the Muslims there too? At this point it is undetermined if religion had anything to do with it. YOU think their speculation is reaching-but you are a moron.

You also seem to think you know how terrorists work. In Israel ELEMENTARY SCHOOL TEACHERS carry guns. Know why? Because terrorists would go into the schools and kill Israeli childrren. The goal is mass murder dumbass.

[nowinger]

The fact that you are still holding onto the possibility this massacre was related to Islamic terrorism proves my point that the wingers WANT another terrorist attack to occur in order to prove themselves right. Sickening.

[Hard Right]

One more thing, if it's a lone, unconnected terrorist, HE'S STILL A TERRORIST!

[Hard Right]

As usual, wrong NoBrain. They are speculating and NO proof EITHER way has come about. Citing their suspicion/guessing as proof tells me how desperate you are to cast your oppnents in an evil light so you can feel good about yourself and your views.