Updated: VA Tech - 21 Dead, 21 Wounded

PJM update via Fox broadcast - 32 dead. That number reported here as well. I suspect it'll go up with almost 20 hospitalized.

And still more: ABC is saying 25 29 dead with toll expected to rise. Also video here via ABC main page

Still more via MSNBC

In TV news reports, witnesses described the gunman as a young Asian man.

Injured occupants are carried out of Norris Hall at Virginia Tech in Blacksburg, Va. on Monday, April 16, 2007. (The Roanoke Times / Alan Kim)

Link below from the diebar of the Hokie sports blog:

Shootings close campus; gunman deceased

04/16/2007, Updated 12:40 p.m.
Two shootings on campus today have left 22 confirmed dead, including students.

Families wishing to reunite with students are suggested to meet at the Inn at Virginia Tech. The university is planning a convocation for tomorrow at noon at Cassell Coliseum for the university community to come together to begin to deal with the tragedy.

Counseling is available in the Bowman Room in the Merriman Center (part of the athletic complex) for employees who seek assistance following todayÕs events.

All faculty and staff have been released and asked to go home effective immediately.

Good lord.

BLACKSBURG, Va. (AP) -- A gunman opened fire in a dorm and classroom at Virginia Tech on Monday, killing 21 people and wounding another 21 before he was killed, police said.

"Today the university was struck with a tragedy that we consider of monumental proportions," said university president Charles Steger. "The university is shocked and indeed horrified."

Comments

[Fred Beloit]

An armed student or prof might have been able to save some of the victims. It is certainly not the fault of the police, but they usually can come only after bad stuff happens.

[imaginewhirledpeas]

So, two shooters, one an "Asian" the other unknown.

[Darth Malice]

Horrible...humans are so fragile and who know when someone has a meltdown.

[Dan Riehl]

From what I've read, 1 shooter, now dead. But the reports are definitely not matching up yet. Too much confusion.

[Darth Malice]

2 hours between shootings?

[Dan Riehl]

could be 2 hours - if they didnt find him after the first set and he turned up later across campus.

[Northerner]

But of course this is no reason to call for stricter gun laws. Because "guns don't kill, people do". As if this idiot could have killed 21 people with his bare hands.

How many more massacres like this before the US wises up? How many more innocent deaths?

[imaginewhirledpeas]

How much stricter do gun laws need to be?

[Northerner]

@ imaginewhirledpeas

Check this out:
http://www.stategunlaws.org/viewstate.php?choose_state=Go&st=VA

Not exactly what I'd call strict.

[Captain Joe]

I guess we need to restrict "Asians" from having guns.

[southdakotaboy]

Notherner we need to have less gun laws, the more people that carry the safer we will all be. Many countries that has outlawed private ownership of guns have seen not only an increase in violent crimes and murders but just plain old gun violence as well. Look at Australia and England. Both now have more gun crime than before they got ride of private ownership and you know who has the guns? Thats right people with long criminal backgrounds imagine that. You anti- gun people are so stupid it boggles the mind.

[Northerner]

@ southdakotaboy

I sincerely hope you don't really believe that NRA propaganda. Check out the crime statistics for any European country and compare them to the US. Almost nobody in Europe owns a gun and the gun-related crimes are a fraction of what they are in the US.

[Riehl Fan]

AT LEAST 32 DEAD.

http://www.postchronicle.com/news/original/article_21275256.shtml

[nova]

Many questions are going to be asked and have to be answered as to why the campus police and other police could not find this guy for 2 hours after the first shooting if in fact it was the same guy. With cell phones and descriptions how could he roam across campus for 2 hours? Also to be investigated is whether the students were herded into the areas and told to sit there as they were at Columbine. Students need to be told to run like hell. Not hunker down beneath their desks.

[imaginewhirledpeas]

Always suspicious of leftist organizations, I went to the ATF website: Here are Virginia's gun laws:
http://www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/statelaws/26thedition/virginia.pdf

There are fewer people in most of Europe than in the US and violence exists everywhere. Europe has not totally thrown out teaching children right from wrong as America has, it's a very different atmosphere. Northerner in typical knee jerk, liberal fashion does not wait to learn whether the firearm was legally owned or stolen from somewhere, whether it was purchsed in Va or stolen in California. These things do no matter, it is the inanimate object that is at fault. It is illegal to murder people in all 50 states whether one uses a gun or makes a bomb with readily available household chemcals. I will concede that some of these laws need to be changed but most are bandaids on an amputation.

[Riehl Fan]

The reason that the students are told to hunker down under their desks, is to contain the students in general areas so "sweeps" can be made. If you allow the students to leave, then you will allow the shooter to possibly escape. This is a situation where the gunman has not been identified- and all students are potential suspects. This happened during Columbine as well. As students exited the building, they were frisked upon leaving the building.

As bad as it sounds, you simply cannot allow the students, or any other victims to immediately leave after a shooting.

[Dan Riehl]

VaTech is a gun free zone. As far as gun law there, none are permnitted. Too bad a student or prof didn't have one to take this killer out.

[Fred Beloit]

Northerner thinks nuts and vicious criminals will obey gun laws that will disarm the rest of us so we can't defend ourselves. One really has to admire that type of instant brilliance.

[Jeff S.]

Seems like it all stemmed from a Gf/Bf dispute

[daveinboca]

VA Tech was a gun-free zone, so any "Asian" with a grievance wearing clips and a vest as described had a virtual target-zone. After the August incident, there was a move to allow guns for defensive purposes, but that died. So when an Asian on offense came in, all the students could do is dive under their desks. Let's mourn them instead of squawking about gun-laws.

Those EU lovers should move over there where crime is much more personal with a knife or suicide-vest. The reason the murder rate is low in EU countries is because the illegal aliens are sequestered in ghettos. I lived there for a long time and I prefer the USA.

I'm waiting for Chuck Shumer and John Kerry to hit the mikes with their deeply wise commentaries.

[imaginewhirledpeas]

Dave, I'm hearing that the Bush/Cheney blame game is on. Those guys will be recognized as evil geniouses one day.

[imaginewhirledpeas]

Two pistolas with at least five clips each is a lot of ordnance to use in a lover's quarrel

[Fred Beloit]

Right on, Dave. Schools have by lobbying made sure no law-abiding person will go onto school grounds with a licensed hand gun. This creates a defenseless and target-rich environment for any terrorist or nutcase. But Schumer wants to make sure all port operators are Americans. Just the kind of guy Northerner would vote for.

[Northerner]

Ah, the NRA fanatics have come out of the woodwork.

If you want to stop a fire, throw on some gasoline.
If you want to stop pollution, build more cars.
If you want to stop gun deaths, give everyone a gun.

Brilliant, just brilliant.

Sure, if everyone had had a gun, this guy would have been shot by someone after killing "just" 5 or 6 people.
If nobody had had a gun, nobody would have died.

Too complicated to understand, hey?

[nova]

I have to say I agree that it would have been much better had the students had something to fire back at this guy.

[southdakotaboy]

Seems like it all stemmed from a Gf/Bf dispute

I wonder how long ago this disput was and if the girl dumped him because he had become a fundamentalist muslim. Honor killing maybe? I don't think a muslim man would handle being kicked to the curb by a girl all that well.

[Kelvin]

"I wonder how long ago this disput was and if the girl dumped him because he had become a fundamentalist muslim. Honor killing maybe? I don't think a muslim man would handle being kicked to the curb by a girl all that well."

First, it's DISPUTE. Second, you are one dumb redneck. Be useful, go plant something.

[Fred Beloit]

BTW, Northerner. You might want to check out the Irish Immigrant web site. They have weekly news about Ireland. There are shootings there all the time. Last I heard Ireland was part of Europe. Wonder where Zif, yyy, Boob, and all the others are. Guess they're with Northerner at the North Pole where there are few criminals and no gun laws.

[Fred Beloit]

Zerodegreeskelvin, you wouldn't be trying to establish an excuse for the shooter before it is even known whether he is a Muslim are you, you sly snake in the grass you.

[bloodrage bob]

pull your head out of the clouds and join the *real world*, northerner. if your idea of utopia is just to "pass a law against any bad things ever happening", as you seem to be calling for here....and then disarming everyone because "since all bad things are against the law now, so no one will *need* a way of defending themselves".....

then, so sorry, you're an idiot. an idiot who knows no history.

ever hear of the league of nations, northerner? they were a useless precursor to the even-more useless UN, and they were in business from roughly 1920-1939. among the many many high-toned idealistic "laws" they passed, none was more typical and indicative of their (and your) stupidity than the one where they "outlawed war forever". think about that for just a second, ok? imagine how amused hitler and the japanese generals must have been by that. then compare it to your strident calls for universal disarmament.

the "war is now *illegal*!" thing didn't work out so well, BTW. another somewhat large conflict erupted in the 1930's, over the league's vociferous protests. human nature is what it is, and it's not ever going to change. bad folks exist, and prey on the weak when they can. your way has the weak hiding under desks and hoping for the best. my way allows them to shoot back.

your way didn't work well today, did it.

[Fred Beloit]

Northerner, not everyone wants the responsibility of carrying a gun. You for instance.

[Northerner]

OK, with more and more gun-nuts crawling out from under their rocks, I guess I should be thankful for living in Europe, not the US. Much less chance of getting blown away by some idiot with a grudge AND a gun.

[imaginewhirledpeas]

"OK, with more and more gun-nuts crawling out from under their rocks, I guess I should be thankful for living in Europe, not the US. Much less chance of getting blown away by some idiot with a grudge AND a gun."

You aren't serious are you?

[bloodrage bob]

what's that, northerner? don't care to comment on the similarity of your position on guns vs. the league of nation's position on war? gonna go crawl back under your rock to hide, are you?

well, since you "live in europe", perhaps your muslim friends currently taking over will protect you.

perhaps.

[bloodrage bob]

theo van gogh was unavailable for comment.

[imaginewhirledpeas]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2002/02/24/nguns24.xml&sSheet=/portal/2002/02/24/por_right.html

[Dan Riehl]

Yeah, Northern, you tell 'em. You don't even need to worry about some radical Muslim chopping off your head. He wouldn't have the patience to find it, given it's stuck so far up your ass.

[Fred Beloit]

OK, keep your head down, North, and don't travel to Ireland. Oh, and don't go to England either. They have something against victims over there. If you are a criminal, though, you'll be all right. They coddle them. One more thing. Remember Holgar Danske.

[imaginewhirledpeas]

Some idiot with a grudge? Like maybe killing our ruler or being pissed over losing the war that was started by killing our ruler/ Maybe a little east and we can be pissed because your religion wont allow my religion a place at the table.......oh, that'd be like France today huh?

[Fred Beloit]

Sorry, it's Holger Danske.

[Northerner]

"theo van gogh was unavailable for comment."

Posted by: bloodrage bob | Monday, April 16, 2007 at 02:57 PM

Thanks for supporting my argument, Bob.

Theo van Gogh was killed by a maniac. No two ways about it. Thanks to Dutch gun laws, this maniac was only able to get hold of a knife. So he killed one man.
If he had been able to get hold of an assault rifle, he would have killed 20 more.

[bloodrage bob]

aaaahhhhhhh, northerner pops out from under his rock! eschewing - for some unknown reason - comment on the similarity of his 'anti-gun' position and the league of nation's 'anti-war' position, and focusing instead on yet another victim.

3 quick questions which i know you won't dare to answer, northy: was theo van gogh armed and able to defend himself from his typically cowardly muslim attacker? if he HAD been armed and able to defend himself, wouldn't he be alive today? and wouldn't his typically cowardly muslim killer be the dead guy instead of him?

yeah, you're right: the ability to defend oneself is BAD.

[Fred Beloit]

No he wouldn't, North. He was after Theo. Don't be silly.

[southdakotaboy]

Hey Northener why if they don't have any gun problems in Europe do they need new laws?
http://news.uk.msn.com/Article.aspx?cp-documentid=4644547
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/02/19/nguns19.xml
Explain that to me.

[charles]

http://www.roanoke.com/news/roanoke/wb/wb/xp-50658

from the article

"A bill that would have given college students and employees the right to carry handguns on campus died with nary a shot being fired in the General Assembly.

House Bill 1572 didn't get through the House Committee on Militia, Police and Public Safety. It died Monday in the subcommittee stage, the first of several hurdles bills must overcome before becoming laws."

va tech is a gun free zone, worked out real well for 32 now dead kids and 21 wounded didn't it?

yours is a typical kneejerk uninformed reaction, outlawing guns on campus prevented exactly what?

"If he had been able to get hold of an assault rifle, he would have killed 20 more."

in the case of theo van gogh - you wouldn't be making such an uninformed statement if you actually knew the particulars of the crime

[imaginewhirledpeas]

This ceased to be fun when I learned that Northerner lives in an UNSPECIFIED European country. But I did take a moment to look up Dutch gun laws...Again, taking the word of a lefist isn't pallatable. So all one has to do is to belong to a hunting or shooting sports club to own a gun. SO basically, if you're a law abiding citizen, no problem. Spent some time reading euro crime statistics, etc too. Northerner, you aren't merely ill informed........you're an idiot

[Hokie Girl]

Gun laws? 31 people confirmed dead and you guys are going to argue gun laws? Unbelievable.

First of all, many prayers for the victims, their families and the entire VT community.

You want to argue about something? Argue about why classes weren't cancelled when a person had already been killed and several others wounded at 7:15 AM. Why in the world wasn't an armed officer/gaurd on every damn door on that campus? Why wasn't there someone on every outside door of every dorm keeping the students in their rooms, safe? How come this guy wandered the campus for more than 2 hours after he had already committed murder? These are the questions you should be asking because they are real. These questions would have made the difference between 1 death and 31 deaths. It's much easier to hide behind a gun law debate...a debate that is like a snake that eats itself...And why is it when a gun law debate starts it's always the rednecks and tree-huggers going at it? Where are the normal, 'meet in the middle' people?

[bloodrage bob]

elighten us then, charles. explain for us how being armed - being able to defend himself by shooting at the typically cowardly muslim guy who attacked him - *wouldn't* have helped theo van gogh on that fateful day.

charles? bud?

[charles]

it would have helped poor theo bob

i was responding to northener declaring if theos attacker had an assault rifle more would be dead, the guy was only after theo

i believe in the right to posess guns and i believe in self defense

guess i wasn't clear

sorry

[hokie girl]

32 now. Pray that those still in critical condition make it and that the toll rises no more.