The Right Sometimes Goes Insane, As Well

Apparently Limbaugh linked a post by James Lewis at The American Thinker and it's causing something of a stir. It should. Perhaps not as insane as Seung-Hui Cho, it's frighteningly close and represents one of those times when certain pundits embarrass the Right as a whole. The item recklessly struggles to suggest that what we know of the Liberal doctrine within academe is somehow involved as a causative factor behind the mass murder committed by Cho.

Still, I wonder --- was Cho taught to hate?

Whatever he learned in his classes --- did it enable him to rage at his host country, to hate the students he envied so murderously? Was he subtly encouraged to aggrandize himself by destroying others? Was his pathology enabled by the PC university? Or to ask the question differently --- was Cho ever taught to respect others, to admire the good things about his host country, and to discipline himself to build a positive life?

For God's sakes, are there no limits to which some won't go to, quite frankly, pathetically attempt to score a political point? Seung-Hui Cho was insane. He could have studied nothing but The Wealth of Nations, the Constitution, the Boyscout Manual and Mary Had a Little Lamb and still he would likely have emerged as the psychotic killer he eventually became.

Attempting to construct a false logic for perceived political gain to explain away sheer madness is as contorted and dangerous as lunacy itself. There are plenty of good reasons to find fault with the Liberal philosophy that holds sway within all levels of our contemporary system of education. Seung-Hui Cho is not one of them.

Anyone attempting to invoke his name for the benefit of conservative thinking isn't thinking much at all, let alone conservatively. Such tactics leave conservatism looking foolish and those attempting them as if they are in need of a good couch after a hefty shot of Thorazine. In fact, stopping at calling such efforts crazy may be too kind. Ultimately, they are more dangerous than even that.

Comments

[Purple Avenger]

"They were just batshit crazy" is never enough these days. Gotta be able to blame someone or something other than the perp. The perp after all, is really a victim too right? Someone had to victimize him, right?

[David L]

All these attroscites, Columbine, Blacksburg, would have been avoided had the actor but invoked the Golden Rule. But rather teaching the Golden Rule, we teach self-ssteem.

If you may want to debate the ideas that our schools are teaching hate. they are certainly not teaching love and respect. It is far better to be good than to be noticed. Yet school fostering the belief that it better to noticed than to be good.

[TheSpartan]

How is this different than rightwing religious leaders blaming 9/11 on gays? Or Gingrich blaming liberals for Susan Smith? The second it happened I knew this was coming whether from Rush or Coulter.

[rightwingprof]

And David Kahane published a piece blaming it on TV and videogames.

[Kitty]

Cho was evil; I don't know about insane. Many sane people do truly evil things.

I didn't infer the article was assigning blame. I see it as more evidence of the consequences of the constant anti-Americanism, and the current anti-Bush, drumbeat we hear daily. It's bound to produce a poison fruit eventually.

Cho alone was guilty for his evil. Period. The article posits a valid point, one with which I agree.

...

[LOL]

and now all the wingers are trotting out with their "no no dan, he actually was brainwashed by the giant academic liberal conspiracy"

[Captain Joe]

Yeah, Cho's writings and actions reflect what he was being taught. It takes great literary balls for those sick, commy English profs to be "shocked" by Cho's writings and actions given the nature of his reading assignments. While we're in the process of cleaning up our gun acquisition laws by the mentally disturbed, perhaps we need to retool our English Departments across America.

[Jim C]

I don't think he was brainwashed by liberal society. I think he was just plain batshit crazy. Here's the deal though; I do blame "liberal society" for the gun control that prevented someone from stopping this asshat early on, and I blame "liberal society" for the asinine rules that prevented the school from throwing him out of the school on his ass when they found out he was crazy.

Jim C

[RFYoung]

I have read and re-read the comment.

What is wrong, under the circumstances, with asking if we as a society are doing something wrong. Why, if your honest, and the answer is that we are not, as you seem to suggest, teaching our children wrongly, can you not just say so and why. Why do you have to begin with an ad hominum attack.

The children I grew up with never attacked nor even thaought about attacking their classmates, and we all had access to guns and knives. We also believed, from first grade on in protecting the girls.

Given that todays youth seem very prone to murder, isn't it reasonable to ask,"Are we doing something wrong?"

[LOL]

really some people need perspective i think

in a nation of 300 million people (not even counting illegals!) this is the worst tragedy since... 9/11? I think that's pretty good. Maybe we should reflect on how much our society is doing correctly once in awhile, lest we throw our babies out with the bathwater.

[Purple Avenger]

"While we're in the process of cleaning up our gun acquisition laws by the mentally disturbed"

The laws in place are fine, and have been so since 1968. They just need enforcement.

[TheSpartan]

He was influenced by his reading assignments? Give me a break Captain Joe. I've read alot of what he was assigned in the class you are referring to, I don't know every text but certainly much of the material has literary value. Reading horror books doesn't make one kill, nor does listening to heavy metal or playing video games.

[hilzoy]

Dan -- thanks.

To those who are speaking up for the article: I have nothing against asking questions. I think it's tasteless to go around blaming people who do, in fact, seem to have made a lot of efforts to get help for Cho, especially at a time when they are grieving. But this article is not a dispassionate inquiry. You should know that on a lot of points it's just factually inaccurate. The alleged Marxist page by a professor, for instance, is part of a page on Marxist literary theory by a first-year MA student, which seems to have been discarded years ago. You can find a link to the department website in my post, and if you scroll through the list of faculty and their research interests, you'll find the odd Postmodernist, but also a lot of people who specialize in things like John Donne and Chaucer and Old Norse. (Personally, I love this in one of the faculty blurbs: "An offshoot of this work is my interest in watermarks ..." -- Because all those pomo leftist professors are interested in the watermarks found in literary works.)

If you read the article, you wouldn't expect one of the professors to have provided this blurb:

"My research combines historical, rhetorical, and qualitative methods to study both the teaching of professional communication and the importance of civic engagement to that work. My focus on civic engagement emerges from a combination of my historical research into the Aristotelian notion of technê and the emphasis the field places on practical wisdom (or phronesis). In addition, my military background, which plays a role in my commitment to service and to my understanding of the notion of an ideal orator who serves the public good, has acted as a bridge between my past scholarly work in war literature and my next major research project: an historical study of early technical writers, many of whom worked for the military during World War II, writing documents ranging from field and technical manuals to major policy statements."

That's because the article is not an attempt to answer a reasonable question; it's a hit piece, and a hit piece that misrepresents people who are grieving, and who, as best I can tell, did their best, just to score political points. And no one, on any side of any argument, should do that.

[splashtc]

100% agree with James Lewis. It seems Cho saw the liberal media as his friend by sending them his confession.

[Ali]

Go look at memeorandum.

What's important?

More about Cho's victimized, troubled life.

(When are we going to hear about the real victims lives, what they liked to do from their friends, why they went to VT, what they studied, why, and why they chose it/planned to do with their future)

Nothing about the over 40 schools that have been shut down from copycats... thank you NBC, for not respecting those who have died and drilling Cho's wonderful acheivement and the attention you can get to every nut out there. How can those kids go back to school, what are other kids going to do that are afraid to go away to college? It's all about the ratings. Shame. These are the non-forensic pathologists who said he was Chinese, couldn't google and reported everything but real info... now they believe this video will make it clear. It was clear they wanted ratings over kids dead bodies. How about some psychiatrists on help for those victimized? How about the reporters going to colleges asking what they are doing different security-wise?

Gore becoming the global warming president.

Making fun of Bush for not joking and respecting the recent deaths at VT.

What two detainees say is more important.

France.

Pet Food.

At least the Messopotamian writes an honest opinion and recognizes there's a war going on, even though he complains the surge is working in the east, but should be all over Anbar evenly. Hmmm, hard to do with no funding.

[Ali]

P.S. I hit memeorandum every day, it's the state of the country.

[Captain Joe]

Geez Sparten, I guess what I'm objecting to is the dearth of literature of redeeming social value on Cho's reading list. Whatever happened to the great books that used to be on the reading lists of college students that produced an adult populace worthy of the fruits of liberty. The last vestiges of Marxism and Nihilism live apparently within our educational system.

[Captain Joe]

Geez Purple Avenger, apparently there's a disconnect somewhere in Virginia.

[templar knight]

"I think this is the fault of George Bush."

Now how many times have we heard the liberals say this? So I'm not so sure any liberals have very much of a reason to criticize James Lewis.

And yes, there is something wrong with an educational system that fails to intervene when this individual had proven over a long period of time that he was anti-social. He had no business being enrolled at VTU, or any other college for that matter. One hopes a lesson has been learned, but alas, I'm sure it will be business-as-usual as soon as this fades.

[nova]

Cho bought 2 22 caliber gun clips(10 rounds each)on Ebay according to a news story I saw last night on Yahoo news. Nothing in todays paper about that.
As far a trying to make sense of a senseless act that is like trying to sell snow to Eskimos.

[rightwingprof]

"What is wrong, under the circumstances, with asking if we as a society are doing something wrong."

Because we as a society did not murder 32 people on the VT campus. Because it is transferring responsibility from the murderer to "ourselves." What is the difference between a conservative and a liberal doing it?

It is more than just wrong under the circumstances. It's sick.

[Phoenix]

"Because it is transferring responsibility from the murderer to 'ourselves'."

I agree. I agree so much that I'm going to shoot myself because my eyes were forced to read this:

"What's the English Department's official frontpage reaction to the murder of thirty-two students just a few days ago? Here it is.

"We do not understand this tragedy 


We know we did nothing to deserve it

But neither does a child in Africa 


Dying of AIDS

Neither does the baby elephant watching his community 


Be devastated for ivory 


... Neither does the Mexican child looking 


For fresh water

... Neither does the Appalachian infant killed 


By a boulder 


Dislodged

Because the land was destabilized"

As Holden would say about the phonies he had to deal with at his school: JESUS H. CHRIST.

It's worth saying again.... J E S U S H. C H R I S T.

[SlimGuy]

Dan with all due respect I believe you are wrong.

Every thing I have seen of colleges today from course content to class descriptions makes me wonder.

I read some of them and it is almost like a suicidal self worship.

Something akin to not and Islam person or a Mormon but maybe a Wiccan being put in charge.

You need to read and learn.

[Purple Avenger]

"apparently there's a disconnect somewhere in Virginia."

Actually, all over the country. I've never seen a law that enforced itself.

[nova]

Those words you quote are from a poet. Nikki Giovanni now a writer in residence at Virginia Tech. She kicked Cho out of her class. Threatened to resign if he wasnt removed from her class. We all know that poets talk and write nonsense that has little or nothing to do with the Real World.
I see in the news this morning that Sheryl Crow and the lady who produced An Inconvienent Truth spoke rudely to Dick Cheney at the Correspondents dinner in DC last night. And got told off by Dick in return. I think it surprised and shocked them. Dick doesnt suffer fools lightly.
I think this whole matter of whether Vt responded correctly is in for a big coverup. The school and the police and the politicians do not want anyone second guessing them. What was the response of VT to the bomb threats the week before? I think Cho was responsible for those threats and used them to check the school's reactions. Or lack of same. The problem is the police cant think outside the box.

[Purple Avenger]

Here's the relevent statute Capt Joe. Why don't you tell us where it is defective regarding nut job loons? To my untrained eye, it seems it should have nailed Cho with 27 CFR 472.32(a)(4).

http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&sid=8a948621829bf11d6d9104c39412a982&rgn=div8&view=text&node=27:3.0.1.2.3.3.1.14&idno=27

[nova]

Here is a link to reports on the previous bomb threats at VT. Most likely made by Cho. Seems the school found it ok to evacuate and shut down the buildings for these threats. But not to evacuate the campus after a shooting killed two people. Why? Why take a bomb threat more serious than the killing of two people?
http://www.mediainfo.com/eandp/news/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1003572136

[imaginewhirledpeas]

nova, While I totally agree that the school and the cops mishandled this big time. I find it a huge stretch to compare this to response to a bomb threat. By it's very nature, a bomb is intended for multiple targets. The cops here, unwisely, thought they were responding to a domestic incident. Basically that some boyfriend offed his girlfriend. It was in fact reported at first that cho was dating the first girl he killed and that he had caught her in bed with the RA he killed. Of course, we now know that to be totally false. The question is why when responding to a domestic shooting.....knowing the shooter was at large, at any time in over two hours there was no protect in place/evac order given.

[imaginewhirledpeas]

PA: glad to see someone go to the BATF page rather than to the "media" for info. cho was not hung on this because his day in the nuthouse was never reported by the locals and so did not show up on the insta-check.

[nova]

Maybe VT got caught in a boy who cried wolf scenario. They closed a major gateway to Tech and shut down buildings and cancelled classes for a bomb threat but then when the two killings happened in the dorm they only closed down that one dorm? Why?

Press Carried Reports of Bomb Threats at Virginia Tech Campus Earlier This Month

By E&P Staff

Published: April 16, 2007 2:15 PM ET

NEW YORK It's not yet known if there is any connection, but the media carried reports at the beginning of this month, and again last Friday, of bomb threats on the campus of Virginia Tech where at least 29 students were shot and killed earlier today.

Police are now investigating a link, in any case.

The most recent reports came last Friday, when the school closed Torgersen, Durham, and Whittemore Halls because of a bomb threat and canceled classes. A handwritten note was found that day the university said there have been a connection between the bomb threats.

Because the three buildings needed to be swept for bombs, they were closed for the whole weekend. Virginia Tech offered a $5,000 reward for information about the threats.

On April 3, The Roanoke Times reported: "A written bomb threat led Virginia Tech to evacuate a 100,000-square-foot building, cancel the classes within it, and close a major gateway to the campus for much of Monday.

"Torgersen Hall will remain closed and under observation by authorities, but 'the tape has come down [and] the roads are open again,' university spokesman Larry Hincker said shortly before 6 p.m.

"Tech's police department continues to investigate, he said. The building is expected to reopen at 7 a.m. today.

"The threat was reported about 1:20 p.m. and the decision to evacuate came a little less than half an hour later, Hincker said. The Alumni Mall, a major gateway to Tech, was closed as the building was searched by bomb-sniffing dogs from Dublin, Roanoke and state police.

"Hincker, who has been at Tech two decades, said the only comparable bomb threat he can remember was in October 2001, when a fake device was

[nova]

I dont think police should "assume" anything early in an investigation. That they found one dead white girl and one dead black guy and no witnesses does that make them "assume" that her white boyfriend did it? that seems racist right out of the box. And very limited thinking on the part of the police and the school. The School President has to rely on his chief of police. Or does he? If he is smarter than the police chief he shuts down the whole school right away after the killings of two 2 people. Evacuates the whole school and cancells all classes immeadiately. They did not do this because they chased after the girls boyfriend. I think Cho followed that girl into her dorm after he saw her boyfriend drop her off. The way it played out with the killing of her and the black RA student and no witnesses left him in the clear for 2 hours to go to the post office and mail his package to NBC. Also with the police occupied back at that one dorm he now had time to go across campus to the engineering buildings and chain the doors before starting shooting. Those kids in all those buildings should have been warned to leave all classes by 9am. I think this whole lockdown idea is sometimes nuts. It allows students to be kept in closed spaces. I think a better idea is to evacuate and scatter(i.e. run like hell).Right away. I still think the school is guilty of doing nothing until it was too late.

[Captain Joe]

Purple Anenger
The problem is Virginia's INTERPRETATION of that federal requirement. Virginia interpreted that it did not apply to those who voluntarily commit themselves to psychiatric help, and that the the local Virginia court decided that since Cho volunteered to submit to the psychiatric help during the court hearing, that is, he cooperated with those who wanted him to seek help, that it did not constitute an adjudication by a court. If he had not cooperated and was committed to an institution and treatment by force, then Virginia would have added him to the list of adjudicated mental defectives.

[imaginewhirledpeas]

Oh I agree that the school had poor procedures in place and apparently (we know no different) the campus police weren't much better prepared. There's nothing "racist" in the cops assuming the BF did it. The spouse/lover/partner is ALWAYS the first suspect, even if the killer is standing there in cuffs the s/l/p is questioned to see if they put the killer up to it.
Sending thousands of people fleeing for their lives because a nut is loose does two things. 1) puts thousands of people running in a herd where the shooter can join in and run just as far away. 2) I refer you to Whitman back in Texas who seemed to have great fun shooting down fleeing targets. We do have to consider building design/constrution when advising people to lock down. Kinda stupid to l0ck the doors of an atrium

[Captain Joe]

I suspect that the drugs prescribed by the shrinks to Cho probably led to the event. Prozac and other Lithium based drugs have a tendency in a small percentage of cases to cause the patient to have thoughts of suicide and to go postal. I predict possible huge lawsuits in this case from Cho's family and the families of the victims since the drug companies have deep pockets and may be volnurable.

[Captain Joe]

No doubt the state of Virginia will also be sued for their stupid reaction to the initial shooting which permitted Cho to do the second, and far deadlier, shootings.

[imaginewhirledpeas]

I'm sure the school, the cops, the state, the gun makers and cho's family will be sued yes.

[imaginewhirledpeas]

Joe; How long til we find out where he did all his target practicing? One doesn't make quick headshots and two second reloads w/out some practice.

[Captain Joe]

At a public gun range, see:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/04/21/wshooter221.xml

[nova]

Yes I thought at first of a psychoactive drug reaction. However first reports said no prescription drugs were found in his room.
Maybe he had taken some recently and then gone off them. That often leads to thoughts of suicide and acts of suicide and or homicide.
I would like to know where he got the 500 dollars to buy that gun. He did sell things on Ebay so maybe that is where he got the money to buy the gun. He had good feedback on Ebay. One person who bought from him said he communicated very well. Another one he sold some tickets to said they never got the tickets.
If I remember correctly many people were killed in the library at Columbine where they had been told to stay put by their teachers. I still say jump out of the windows and run like hell. No one can win an argument with 2 semi automatic weapons. I read that "give a guy one gun and he thinks he is Superman. Give him 2 guns and he thinks he is God". I also think the fact that Easter had just passed influenced Cho since he described himself as being like Jesus Christ. And also the anniversary of Columbine since he called Eric and Dylan martyrs. Same week in April as Columbine.

[imaginewhirledpeas]

Dumbass limeys, he never bought a gun over the internet........And of course his being able to step off a paved road and fire a weapon would be a problem in England

[imaginewhirledpeas]

It's been reported he bought the guns with his credit card...guess dad has to pay the bill now.

NOVA, think will ya. At Columbine most of the kids killed were in the library, yes. But the key to being protected would've been to lock the doors. Tis an unfortunate fact that few class room doors have locks. I propose this be changed.

[nova]

He did buy two 22 caliber clips on Ebay.
So you evacuate a building for a bomb threat but not a shooter is that your thinking? I say fight or flight. since you cant fight 2 semiautomatic weapons and 100 or more rounds of ammo I say take flight.

[imaginewhirledpeas]

Yes, he bought two 10 round mags off of e-bay, that's not a firearm or ammunition. E-Bay will deal in niether one. Probably drop accessories after this.
I guess there's no convincing you with real world experience about PiP/evac. So I say to you run like the wind and I wish you the best of luck.

[Buzzy]

From everything I've read about Cho it would seem that he has been a psychopath since an early age. Even his grandparents speak of him being uncommunicative and sullen as a child. Insane implies that he doesn't know right from wrong while his tapes tell us that he knew exactly what he was doing. I believe the term for this is "evil".

It always amazes me when people want to blame everyone else but the guilty. The university didn't cause this, no professor caused this, his parents did not cause this, and the police didn't cause this. While in perfect 20/20 hindsight there are things that all of the above should have done differently we should not hold them responsible for not being mind readers or dilute the evil that Cho was in blaming others. I'm sure that there will be lawsuits and that someone like John Edwards will represent families in their quest for blood money, in the end all of us will somehow pay for their grief. I would much rather move forward, removing the privacy protections that prevent public mental health information from being available, even if known, on the FBI NICS database.

It wouldn't surprise me at all to find out that Cho made those earlier bomb threats and that he planned his 2 hour wait on the average time it took the school to take the campus off of lockdown. No school plan that comes from this incident will prevent further attacks and the media circus that this incident caused will fuel other sick, twisted and evil persons to dream of their attacks and the seemingly unending media coverage they will get.

I blame only Cho.

[nova]

yes we can agree to disagree. It is true that those in locked rooms and baricaded rooms survived. It is also true that those that jumped out of windows survived. I would jump every time. I dont want to be trapped in a building with a shooter. Same is true if I was in a Mcdonalds and some nut comes in shooting. As one did in San Ysidro,Ca. I would try for the nearest exit. It is true than now with better screening and locked enforced cockpit doors and armed pilots we dont have any more airline hijackings. Knock on wood.
Remember the 9-11 people who jumped when forced to decide between burning to death and jumping. they jumped.

[imaginewhirledpeas]

"Remember the 9-11 people who jumped when forced to decide between burning to death and jumping. they jumped."

ANy idea how many may have made it had they not panicked?
ANd yes, standing in line at Mickey's and some asshat walks in, don't get in my way but that's far different than what I meant.

[imaginewhirledpeas]

Oh and NOVA......I may even retreat to a bedroom if he comes through my back door and tell him what will happen if he doesn't leave. But I'm not leaving my house.

[Purple Avenger]

"The problem is Virginia's INTERPRETATION of that federal requirement. Virginia interpreted that it did not apply to those who voluntarily commit themselves to psychiatric help"

What's to interpret? The English is plain and concise. If you've been adjudicated nuts, you're prohibited, period, end of story. Commitment is irrelevant if you've been adjudicated nuts.

The operative word in the statute is "or". If it had been "and", then you and the state might have a leg to stand on, but its not, and you don't. The people who draft this kind of legislation are very aware of the vast semantic difference between "or" and "and". Only morons could possibly confuse the two.

[nova]

I want to correct a mistake I made in an earlier post when I said it was Dick Cheney that was rudely spoken to by Sheryl Crow and her friend at the White House Correspondence dinner last night. It was NOT Dick Cheney it was in fact Karl Rove.

[Captain Joe]

Purple
I agree with you. I'm just relaying to you what the folks in Virginia and some other states have said. Apparently, there is somehow some ambiguity somewhere in the statute. I think lawyers are great at creating, finding, and exploiting ambiguities in the law. Although the language is simple and appears to be straightforward, the lawyers have misinterpreted the statute not only in Virginia but in several states. I suspect that a good amount of politics is involved in the obfuscation and the misinterpretation. There are also certain turf wars, jealosies, and toes stepping on between the state governments and federal governments and even some holdover resentment from the Civil War no doubt involved here. Usually, it takes some disaster like VT to clarify things and get some agreement to seriously follow the federal law in some states that have a certain lax history in regards to following certain federal laws. It took several decades, for example, for some states and localities to submit to federal laws on race. Some federal liquor laws are still being disobeyed by large elements of some localities.