Right Wing Knee Collapse

Update: Oh, btw, from the New York Times:

Uneasy Alliance Is Taming One Insurgent Bastion

RAMADI, Iraq — Anbar Province, long the lawless heartland of the tenacious Sunni Arab resistance, is undergoing a surprising transformation. Violence is ebbing in many areas, shops and schools are reopening, police forces are growing and the insurgency appears to be in retreat.

Compare and contrast.

This doesn't surprise me very much, Rick Moran tends to think on things so much, he ends up on most every side of every issue when given time and chance.

I hate writing posts like this. Since I don’t advocate an immediate “turn tail and run” the left climbs all over me. And since I don’t say everything is going swimmingly in Iraq and that we’re on the verge of victory, the right thinks I’m a traitor.

When writing about a difficult war and your timely decision to join the popular front to undermine it, not beginning your tome with "I" might actually convince some people there's more thought and less narcissism involved in your choice.

I have come to the conclusion over the last few days that, due to domestic conditions here in the US and the inability of the Iraqi government and society to deal in a timely manner with the political problems that must be solved if Iraq is to have a viable, multi-sectarian society the United States is on the verge of suffering a humiliating defeat in Iraq. A perfect storm of almost non-existent public support for our war aims coupled with US pressure on the Iraqis to shoehorn radical changes in their society, their constitution, and their politics into an unrealistic and inevitably, an impossible time frame will ultimately doom our efforts to take any military success achieved via the surge and turn it into progress on the political front.

If we had 3 or 4 years and the political will to maintain troop levels where they are now, then we would have a real chance to make the difference.

A perfect storm? How got damned cliche. Yes, there's precipitation, Rick. But it isn't rain, simply the moisture of your incessant hand wringing finally reaching critical mass. Next time you choose to bail out on a war you supported, get a crying towel and take to your bed - spare us all the unsightly mess.

You say - if this and that, the war might be won. Well, bucko, some might think that given you aren't advocating that, your piece amounts to little more than announcing that you are giving up. It's shameful that you would invoke the concept of largeness of character in a piece you begin with I and end with giving up, Rick. Nice tactic, though, as it presumptively leaves you looking like some bigger man.

But big men don't cave in to fear and regret, deserting even bigger men they sent off to war. Big men look for a way to go forward leaving more in their wake than the seeds for the next even more tragic war. You offer nothing like that. Frankly, I'll take stiff-necked over rubber necking, which appears to be what your efforts in support of the war now amount to, at best.

For now, the imperative is preventing unmitigated disaster. It may involve giving in to the Democrats and withdrawing some of our troops and redeploying some others. Is the President a big enough man to do this? Or is he more in love with his legacy and would therefore resist changing course to reflect the reality of what is happening on the ground and in the councils of government in Iraq?

So the question ultimately rests with the President and, to a lesser extent with the Democrats; will politics trump the national interest? Will this stiff-necked President who has refused to admit many mistakes in the past be capable of demonstrating such largeness of character?

Comments

[scarshapedstar]

"Big men look for a way to go forward leaving more in their wake than the seeds for the next even more tragic war."

I know of a way you can go forward, Big Man Dan. Ask your local Army recruiter today.

[Fred Beloit]

Oooooooonnnnnnnooooo. This war has fighting in it and people are getting hurt. I didn't sign up for this. I thought it would take a few weeks tops. Get the white flags, quick. It's bad because of the conditions here. (What conditions here? We have the same conditions we've had since 1968, but with a far superior economy and a volunteer military force.) Good post, Dan. Truth sometimes hurts and this guy needs some tough love.

[Fred Beloit]

Little men look for a way to use Viet Nam as a model for all wars and want to repeat the same cowardly civilian response.

[Phoenix]

1.)"Will this stiff-necked President who has refused to admit many mistakes in the past be capable of demonstrating such largeness of character?"

Do these two phrases contradict one another?

2.)"I hate writing posts like this. Since I don’t advocate an immediate “turn tail and run” the left climbs all over me. And since I don’t say everything is going swimmingly in Iraq and that we’re on the verge of victory, the right thinks I’m a traitor."

I think this guy has some urine in his bellybutton. He should bow before George Bush for standing by what he knows is right instead of worrying about what his minions think. What a weenie.

[bloodrage bob]

awww. the poor narcissist finds that taking a principled position; based on dispassionate analysis of the *facts*, rather than teacher's hysterical political dogma....

is a bit more *uncomfortable* than just going mindlessly along with the crowd, chanting the anti-western slogans they all learned back in school.

am torn: do you pat this wuss on the back, to encourage the development of further independent thought...

OR.....

do you kick him in his fat self-centered ass and bellow "quit yer whining!"?

[Fred Beloit]

Leadership 101 (First Day.): "Today we are going to analyze the practice of a leader apologizing. Never, ever apologize. Correct where possible. Take responsibility. But never, ever apologize. Yes, question from the class? Thank you for that question. Never, ever apologize. Any more questions? No? OK. To sum up today's lesson. Never, ever apologize. See you tomorrow."

[Charles Warren]

"Today we are going to analyze the practice of a leader apologizing. Never, ever apologize. Correct where possible. Take responsibility. But never, ever apologize. Yes, question from the class? Thank you for that question. Never, ever apologize. Any more questions? No? OK. To sum up today's lesson. Never, ever apologize. See you tomorrow."

I guess this foolishness is from the last few remaining die hard bushbots.

We don't live in a culture where people assume that authority figures are always smarter than they are and always right. Authority figures can mistake pigheadedness for strength of character. Authority figures can live in a fantasy world of wishful thinking. Authority figures can refuse to listen to bad news. Authority figures can think that people who tell them what they don't want to hear are enemies. Authority figures can be susceptible to flattery. Authority figure can put cronies first. Authority figures can think with their penises. Authority figures can let their emotions rule their actions. Authority figures can refuse to see what is obvious to the man in the street and when they do they have to apologize. Authority figures can screw up totally and obviously and when they do if they don't apologize people have no reason to believe that they learned anything from it and won't do it again.

[Charles Warren]

Rick Moran apparently has common sense and the bushbots are screaming and hollering over it.

The overwhelming majority of the American people accept that the goals of this war are pipedreams and its time to stop throwing American lives away on them. Now you can either accept this or see the GOP annihilated for the next generation.

[Buzzy]

Ok, so if he apologizes then the DEMs won't demand we leave millions of friendly Iraqis in a lurch? If not.... then NO.

Secondly can he apologize like Clinton apologized for having sex with an intern in the oval office? If not... then NO.

Go ahead DEMs, shut the war down and live with the consequences. You know it'll be the last chance you'll get at power for a long long time. So will Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid and all the lefts Presidential candidates sign an affidavit taking responsibility for everything that happens after we pull out? If not...then NO.

[Charles Warren]

Buzzy, the Iraqis are adults. We are NOT responsible for their lives and their choices. If they want an ethnic civil war it is not our responsibility to prevent that. We are not going to police that country forever. We are not going to be 'peacekeepers' when there is no peace to keep.

And we owe the Sunnis nothing so what happens to them is their problem.

The number of Americans siding with Congress has gone up from 57% to 64% in a matter of days. I figure it should top out at 75% by mid-May. The American people have made it clear that they do not accept Iraq as their "White Man's Burden" to "Christianize and civilize".

[Buzzy]

Charles then exactly why do the Democrats want so badly for our military to pull out from Iraq to get involved in the civil war in Darfur?

Look, I hate war in a way that only an old soldier can but I have friends (and the US has friends) in Iraq whose heads are going to be on the chopping block if the former Baathists and the Shi'a militias aren't stopped in their rampage of violence against the innocents in their own country. I'm not talking about the politicians or even the friendly tribal leaders but the common citizens of that country who can't get out, can't run away and depend on the US to live up to it's promises of a peaceful nation they can live and prosper in.

I guess that's what I never have been able to figure out about the left, why are promises so easily forgotten and broken. Why do so many align themselves with our enemies so often and why is their answer always to cut and run instead of finding a way to beat back the enemy to give a new democracy a chance at life.

We need out of Iraq and Afghanistan soon but the way out (IMHO) is forward and not in retreat. I'm of the opinion that if the Democrats would fight with us instead of chopping us off at the knees at every turn this war would already be over with our promises intact. I want the hell out of Iraq at least by the end of 2008 and I want out leaving our promises fulfilled.

What do you want?

[Charles Warren]

If the people of Iraq are so anti-insurgent, why is the government so weak ? Why after 4 years does it not have reliable armed forces ?

It is a reality of Arabs that Westernized, secular people are helpless before the raging tides of Islam that move the common people. The reality of Arabs is that moderates like your friends are few and weak. We can't change that. When Arabs vote, they vote for tribe, jihad, and revenge. Your friends are as helpless as the Kerensky types in the Russian Revolution.

[Fred Beloit]

My my, Mr Warren has been a very busy boy, hopping around from story to story smearing his mistaken opinions all over the place. Give him an A for energy and incomplete for answers to questions he is asked. Basically, he doesn't answer any questions. Notice he doesn't answer Buzzy's question above.

[Fred Beloit]

"Correct where possible. Take responsibility." This is what a leader does, not apologize. "I'm so sorry I am not able to make the terrorists go away in two weeks. Please forgive me. I am the first President in American history to make a mistake in wartime. Boohoohoo." Is this what you want Warren? That would mollify you wouldn't it? WOULDN'T IT? No it would not, not for a second.

[Charles Warren]

Child, the issue isn't what you want but what you can actually have.

And the problem was the entire war in the first place. Since you have defined 'terrorist' to include practically the entire Sunni and Shiite populations of Iraq, it is impossible to see how we can 'win'.

Bush didn't make a mistake in wartime. The entire Iraqi war was a mistake borne out of his arrogance, incompetence, and cronyism. An honest mistake is one thing. Being dead wrong from the getgo about everything because you are a fool is something different.

[charles]

"Being dead wrong from the getgo about everything because you are a fool is something different"

well i guess you'll give up and leave here now, thanks in advance

[LOL]

Buzzy, you are incredibly narcissistic talking about "what I want". You sound like a child who isn't getting the candy bar or toy he wanted. Iraq and this war are not about "what you want". They are about what you are willing to do. Are you willing to reinstate a draft and commit 300,000 troops for about 10 years to stabilizing the country? Because these surges are useless, and it's being proven every week in Iraq.

Time to stop focusing on yourself "I want I want" and start focusing on what is actually happening -- in reality.

[bloodrage bob]

(shakes head disbelievingly)

did i REALLY just see a *liberal* accuse someone of narcissism? pigs flying! clocks running backwards! cats and dogs mating! sun rising in west!

[Phoenix]

Whoa..... Charles W. is an idiot writ large.

Hey, C.W. ... How about a nice long list-worthy lecture on leadership as opposed to 'authority figures'?

Nevermind: Anyone who generalizes and makes grand sweeping statements as you do is a complete fool. No one in his right mind would take your kind of indolent thinking seriously.

.
LOL. Lame, lame. *I* can say I want this or that. What gives you the right to say a word about it? At least I have an opinion that isn't someone else's. And Buzzy's is based on his many years of military service. How in the hell is that focusing on ourselves? You and your buds just spout off stupid stuff and offer no clue as to alternatives or solutions. Blame, blame..... lame, lame.

[Jim C]

Scarshapedstar,

I know you're not actually going to try the damn chickenhawk meme. Please tell me you're not giong to try to trot out that tired old piece of crap.

Jim C

[Jim C]

Charles,

I assume when you talk about leaders thinking with their penises you're talking about Bill Clinton? Oh, that' right... you lefties never criticize one of your own. Talk about hypocrisy...

Jim C

[Jim C]

Charles,

You're right we're not responsible for their choices, but it is our responsibility to give them a fighting chance. It is our responsibility to finish what we started. Those of you on the left are so fond of drawing comparisons between Iraq and Vietnam... how about carrying that to the logical conclusion... if we pull out before the job is finished we'll have another Cambodian killing field on our hands. Or more appropriately Reid, Pelosi, and the rest of the sunshine patriots will.

Jim C

[Jim C]

LOL is obviously fixated on the MSM spin. S/He obviously has no interest in paying attention to trhe good news coming out of places like Anbar province, or the fact that violence is down in Baghdad...

Jim C

[LOL]

really? 150 some iraqis died on saturday. 9 us soldiers died on saturday.

But of course that's just "msm spin". Can you guys think beyond your sound bites? Nothing short of a 300,000 force is going to work, and no one in power is going to support that. So it's time to get out.

[Charles Warren]

The Sunnis have so poisoned their relations with the Shiites that they will be wiped out once we leave. True. But that is their problem and we owe them nothing.

Finish the job ? Funny how the definition of what exactly 'finish the job' is never given. Idiots like Fred define 'finish the job' as beating both sides of a civil war. What exactly is 'finish the job' and won't it take 300,000 troops for a generation, thousands more Americans dead and trillions spent (wasted) to even begin to make a dent ?

You war supporter types keep talking about Cambodia. Get this. The American people are not willing to fight to prevent Arabs from being Arabs.

[Fred Beloit]

"...the Shiites will be wiped out once we leave. True. But that is their problem and we owe them nothing." Why, Charles, how callous. "The American people are not willing to prevent Arabs from being Arabs." Why, Charles, how heartless (and you have no right to speak for the American people). For a woman, you sure are cold-blooded. I guess Time magazine didn't cry enough to let you care. But Charles is wrong as usual. Since our Congress overwhelmingly approved our actions to go to Iraq, the Congress remains responsible. True some in the Congress who live only to be reelected, or elected to higher office, have changed their minds, and now want to surrender and repudiate their responsibility, but the President doesn't seem to want to be party to the surrender that really would be a crime against humanity.

[Jim C]

LOL,

zdid you happen to see the NYT's article over the weekend about the progress being made in Anbar province? Apparently not...

Jim C

[Charles Warren]

"Since our Congress overwhelmingly approved our actions to go to Iraq, the Congress remains responsible."

Congress should have stood up to Bush more. But Bush and Bush alone is responsible for the war that he and the neocons wanted so desparately. Or are you stupid enough to think that we would be at war in Iraq if this were the second term of the Gore administration ?

Child, you talk like a sentimental little fool. The Iraqis are not helpless innocents. They are heavily armed grownups. They have their own choices to make and it is not our responsibility to protect them from their own choices.

Child, if the Sunnis win, Iraq will become either a Baathist state or an anti-American Sunni theocracy. If the Shiites win, Iraq will become an anti-American Shiite theocracy allied with Iran. So what the hell does it matter to us which side wins ? Does any consideration of American interest enter your feeble brain at all ? How much American blood and treasure are you willing to squander in a fight in which we have nothing to gain by the victory of either side ?

[bloodrage bob]

sorry, charlie. the ironclad "never let the idiot liberal get the last word" rule means that....well....no last word for you!

you're a moron, childe, as are all the ideas you spout.
since you seem to have all the answers, here's a simple question that NO liberal on this board has *ever* answered: "so! childe! since you're so much smarter and wiser than us - although strangely hung up on the word "dicks", which you seem to use an *awful* lot... - what's YOUR idea of an appropriate and proportional response to 9-11? make sure your response DOESN'T contain the words 'reaching out to'; or 'start a dialogue with'. well? care to comment?"

god knows ZIFKNOB sure didn't....she's *still* running like a bitch from that one. let us see if you're made of sterner stuff.

[Charles Warren]

Bloodrage Bob, are you a second stupid child ?

Iraq had not one damn thing in the world to do with 9/11. Except that 9/11 gave Bush the political capital he needed to resolve his father issues and recklessly drag this country into a senseless war.

I call you a child because war supporters don't think. They just thump their chests and vent like barroom drunks. No wonder the American people are fed up with you.

[bloodrage bob]

i didn't ask why you chose to descend into idiotic namecalling, childe charles. i *ASKED* your idea of a proper 9-11 response.

you didn't answer. (go figure.) you made a typically pompous speech; used the word "i" a lot - also typical: that's what you liberals DO - ; made your usual reference to those evil manly men you despise so much (not sure what a psychiatrist would make of that, childe); and generally made an even LARGER ass of yourself. but answer the question?

naaaah. *that* you couldn't manage. odd, that.

[LOL]

he used the word "I" once

it's spelled "child"

you're an idiot

[bloodrage bob]

mighty bold talk from a mere woman liberal. how 'bout it, childe? you gonna run away and hide? let the girlies fight for you?

or is it just that you changed identities on us? there HAS been noted amazing similarities of content/style/vernacular in the postings of "several" liberal trolls posting here....

idiots, every one of them, BTW.

[dasdas]

http://onet.pl