Outrage

When is history not history? When it offends some people, so liberals decide to remove it from the classroom.

Incredible.

Comments

[Zifnab]

But teaching Intelligent Design is still cool, right?

[templar knight]

You just showed your stupidity again, Ziffy. Does your head hurt, or does it feel better, when you spew out that kind of vomit? Just couldn't bring yourself to criticize your goatherding allies(your words, again, Ziffy), could you?

[templar knight]

Oh, Ziffy, it's time for you to bring out BrainlessBob right about now.

[Phoenix]

Oh my god. That almost made me drool. That is so disgusting I'm almost speechless. The one line that bothered me the most was when Betsy said that one of the reasons teachers are worried is that they might be attacked themselves - by students!

I can attest to what she's talking about. I taught British and World literature, and every six years we were required by law to get new textbooks. I still have the original British lit book where the original translated text of "Beowulf" is there in all its glorious alliteration and beautiful language. By the time I left teaching, "Beowulf" was five pages long and practically written in hip-hop. ... I'm exaggerating, but it was dumbed down to a fourth-grade reading level.

That is not as serious as what Betsy is describing, though. British literature naturally demanded the teaching of its concomitant history, and for sure it turned real puny - the Crusades made up one paragraph! But *changing* history??? !

[Zifnab]

"Oh my god. That almost made me drool."

*hands Phoenix a napkin*

[Zifnab]

"Does your head hurt, or does it feel better, when you spew out that kind of vomit? Just couldn't bring yourself to criticize your goatherding allies(your words, again, Ziffy), could you?"

I'm just confused, Temp. I was under the impression that caving to religious non-sense in the face of scientific evidence was what the Republican Party was all about. After all, if you can toss carbon dating and gene theory under the bus because it offends Young Earthers, is it any greater stretch to throw 90-year survivors and reams of documentation along with scores of eyewitness accounts and mountains of forensic evidence out the window as well? All of that is based on the notoriously biased liberal/jew-based media, anyway. Or cooked up in Universities where professors are just milking the sympathes of their donors with ridiculous claims like "Auschwitz was a Nazi charnel house" and "Humans are decended from pre-historic apes".

I mean, Peanut Butter, people!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZFG5PKw504

If we can use Peanut Butter to disprove evolution, I'm confident we can use it to disprove the holocaust as well. No evidence is so full-proof that it can withstand the Chewbacka Defense. And how can you run around teaching good Christian/Muslim students a bunch of nonsense that does not make sense, when you're undermining the faith that makes them such good, wholesome, wonderful people.

[scarshapedstar]

Speaking of when history is not history, let's look at the wonderful comments for the post:

"You just visited two major civil war sites that the blacks and cowards of the country have used to brainwash several generations of Americans. They teach that the civil war was all about slavery when that is garbage. It was about state rights and they'll soon find out just what that is."

Yes, indeed, what is these rights? I dunno, let's ask the people who were actually around at the time, the writers of the Mississippi Articles of Secession:

"Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery-- the greatest material interest of the world."

...

riiiiiiiiiiiiiight. And for his next trick, Cletus McWingnut will tell us that the swastika tattooed on his arm is a peace sign.

[templar knight]

Ziffy, reread that post, and if you don't think you just posted the most ridiculous drivel seen here in quite a while, you're mentally ill. You've lost whatever tiny bit of credibility you ever had. Stupid is too kind a word for your mental capabilities. BrainlessBob fits you to a tee.

[templar knight]

scar, you dumb ass, that is not what is being taught in schools across the US. When it is being taught in schools across the US that slavery was not the primary cause of the Civil War, get back with me.

Damn, man, your analogy proves your own stupidity. For crying out loud, get a clue.

[Phoenix]

Zif,

Thanks for the napkin.

Now look this way so I can stuff an extra-absorbent tampon down your throat. Your mouth is already wide open.

[Phoenix]

TK,

I think Zif and Scar do blotter in the morning. They have gone off their rockers. Jaysus! It's even funny.

[templar knight]

And Ziffy, you to. When carbon dating and evolution are not being taught in American schools, get back to me. You and scar are a twin set of dumb asses.

[Northerner]

It's not just the Muslims, the same article states:

"A third school found itself 'strongly challenged by some Christian parents for their treatment of the Arab-Israeli conflict-and the history of the state of Israel that did not accord with the teachings of their denomination'. "

There's idiots (and yes, I count the Intelligent Design believers among those) in every religion. In fact, religion itself entails grown people believing fairytales.

[Zifnab]

I'm all about equal opportunity, Temp. If we're going to bitch about caving to ridiculous religious demands that fly in the face of factual evidence, lets try to be equitable here.

If the Christians can piss on 600 years of natural science because they don't want to give up their Creationist beliefs, it would be inequitable for us to rag on the Muslims who have a similiar disdain for the last 70 years of world history.

Either you're for teaching religious truth over reality-based truth or you're against it. You can't have it both ways, Templar.

[Darth Malice]

So according to British schools the holocaust did not happen because muslim parents are telling their future sucide bombers it did not happen....Z and scar you liberal heros win again!

[southdakotaboy]

Zifnab has completely lost his ever loving mind. When you start compairing Intelligent Design and Holocaust Denial as the equal you have entered a whole new realm of insanity. One is talking about how something came into existence and the other is dealing with the systematic extermination of large groups of people for political reasons.
My question is when are the Jewish people in America going to wake up to the fact that the left in this country is getting ready to throw them under the bus. They are setting the stage for the extermination of Isreal and then the rest of the jewish population world wide. The Dems don't see the Jews as usefull anymore so they are going to give them to the Arabs.

[templar knight]

I tell you, Phoenix, a dumber pair I have never met. They are probably off to Kos to bone up on their new talking points. What a pair of losers.

Oh, top of the morning here in Texas, Phoenix. Glad to see you.

[juandos]

Being a libtard means never being ashamed to let the world know you are a fool right scarshapedstar and Zifnab?

[templar knight]

Ziffy, are you that stupid? Show me where evolution, carbon dating, or any other scientific idea is not being taught in US schools out of fear of Christians. I challenge you to show me. I beg you to show me. Otherwise, you come off as a complete fool.

[Darth Malice]

How do liberals sleep at night?

[Darth Malice]

Templar don't forget the New Crusaders Christian Terror group New Jersey schools trained against....can bring themselves to say muslim.

[nowinger]

Scopes trial ring a bell? State statutes prohibiting the teaching of evolution ring a bell? Activist courts striking down said laws ring a bell? School boards across America trying to get creationism taught as science ring a bell?

[Doc]

I don't ignore '600 years of natural science', only that fairy tale cloaked in pseudo-science founded on a philosophically naturalistic worldview, aka 'macroevolution', 'molecules-to-man', or just good old 'evolution'.

Couldn't care less what someone teaches kids, as long as they don't use my money to do it. As it is, people take money from me at gunpoint to pay some gov't flunky to teach kids that they're the accidental byproduct of a cosmic burp some umpty-billion years ago. I maintain my right to work to stop that from happening. I'd prefer it if gov't schools ceased to exist; that way, evolutionists could teach their kids (the few they actually have; see below) whatever idiocy they want to. I'll continue to homeschool my kids with what I consider to be satisfactory results (e.g., #1 son in one of the top-ranked small lib arts colleges with a scholarship based on his 36 on the ACT; yeah, creationists are all just dumb Bible jocks. Keep believing that; it'll make defeating your arguments easier.)

Love it when all these folks, none of whom have PhD's in the relevant fields I daresay, so ardently defend that dead-end piece of tripe. O well, I've said it before and I'll say it again: faith in evolution is anti-evolutionary, as it seems to be correlated with a negative survival value. Most people who are ardent evolutionists reproduce poorly compared to creationists. Just think of it as evolution in action. Survival of the fittest. Last man standing.

[Zifnab]

"When you start compairing Intelligent Design and Holocaust Denial as the equal you have entered a whole new realm of insanity. One is talking about how something came into existence and the other is dealing with the systematic extermination of large groups of people for political reasons."

Both are based on "data" and "facts". Both involve systematic investigation of the claim, a hypothesis of what occured followed by a series of tests and fact-finding expeditions to confirm what happened. Both can be "proven" and both have.

The only obstruction either seem to receive from society as a whole are clusters of religio-phile diehards who doggedly insist, in the face of all underlying evidence, that scientists/historians are wrong.

Holocaust Denial, Global Warming Denial, Evolution Denial, its all predicated on the "I don't want to believe it so I refuse to see it taught" school of thinking.

[Jon G]

Posters on this board regularly resort to intimidation attempts - name-calling, suggesting certain groups are un-American or anti-American, that certain posters should be exiled, jailed or put to death - then they express shock that others are using those tactics and finding success. Spare me the crocodile tears.

Liberals do not support the suppression of the teaching of fact - period.

[Dan Riehl]

"its all predicated"

You're wrong, Zif. Holocaust denial, unlike the other items, is based upon hatred. Because your liberalism prevents you from judging islamofascists as hateful, you can't see the difference. You're left with trying to establish a moral equivalence where it does not exist. The great irony of liberalism is that in what it thinks is a quest to be more human than anyone else, they allow themselves to defend man's most egregious inhumanity to man - the holocaust.

Today's liberalism is indeed morally bankrupt and a blight on our species. They are lost in a corrupt intellectualism devoid of values, rendering it worthless for man and obviously any sense of a God.

[southdakotaboy]

What really gets me is that libs are so eager to point to evil plots by Christians to take over the schools and turn things into a Theocracy here in the US. Then when its pointed out to them that the muslims are doing the things that Christians are accussed of doing they twist themselves into knots comming up with reasons to excuse muslim behavior. If it wasn't such a threat to us it would be funny.
This is a serious problem that the libs really need to stop and think about. Teachers are afraid to teach things because they feel threatend by their students. Not all their students mind you, just those who belong to a certain religion. When this train goes off the tracks its going to be a mess.

[nowinger]

I would say holocaust deniers and evolution deniers are both based in ignorance and a refusal to admit the facts for what they are, motivation for why they refuse to look the facts quare in the face is largely irrelevant. The young holocaust denier has been trained to believe the holocaust either didn't happen or has been exaggerated by the international zionist conspiracy in order to help the jews take over the world, from his persective, he denies the holocaust because he believes this to be the truth not because his hatred and fear of jews is irrational. He thinks his hate is well founded in truth, the truth of propaganda and lies. The evolutionist deniers also hate the theory of evolution but in a different way and their hate and fear of science is just as irrational as that of the holocaust denier.

[southdakotaboy]

Well nonwinger here is a big diference between the two that you seem happy to skip over. On one side there is a group of people who as of today if you argue against their faith will not hurt you. On the other hand there are those who have a rather large record in modern times of killing those who disagree with them.

[Victor]

global warming deniers=personal favorite kooks. Homeschoolers are entertaining too though.

[Phoenix]

Jon,

Monday must be libs-off-their-rockers day. This might be the first comment you've ever made without prefacing it with: "So-and-so, you're an idot."

Here's some good stuff from your buddies. What nerve you have.

Dan needs our support getting over the -er um- unpleasantness he suffered in middle school, and well high school, and of course most of college, and continuting on into middle age.
Posted by: Legalize

What are you saying here, Legalize? That Dan has never had the pleasure of a blowjob? How would you know?
Posted by: Phoenix | Saturday, March 17, 2007 at 05:50 PM

I don't know about you Phoenix, but when your Mom finishes me off I'm pretty relaxed. The woman could suck start a Harley.
Posted by: TheSpartan | Sunday, March 18, 2007 at 12:10 AM

You piece of shit. <---- oooooooooh, my! Phoenix said a nasty!

[nowinger]

The truth is, that school children should be taught facts, they can't grow up to be educated, functioning memebers of society if they aren't taught facts and taught how to think for themselves in a logical manner. Religious or political views have no business as the deciding factor in what is or is not taught in school. The materials should be as unbiased as possible. Where there is legitimate debate, let the debate be part of the discussions. If muslim children in the UK are being told at home that the holocaust is a lie, what better way or place to teach them to think for themselves and rely on fact not religion to make decisions than inside the classroom. However, this goes the same for the evolution and global warming deniers as well. Darwin's theory of evolution was not a theory on the creation of the universe, but on the evolution of the various species on this planet, and the scientific facts back it up. There are no facts that back up intelligent design, it has to be taken on faith and so does not belong in a scientific discussion. The world is too complext to be random is not a provable theory. That man and primates share a common ancestry is pretty well settled science.

[templar knight]

Ziffy, you are equating one thing, Muslims forcing teachers in Britain to quit teaching about the Holocaust and the Crusades, with another thing that does not exist, i.e., Christians forcing schools not to teach evolution or carbon dating or any other scientific idea that is widely accepted.

I ask you, what is the similarity between the two? I wish the hell one of the several of you liberals would make some sense of your arguments. Because individual beliefs are in another realm, and are not the pervue of public education. We are talking about education here, you dummies. Jesus, you people are downright stupid.

[Jon G]

Phoenix: In most cases, that was a fair representation of the poster's reasoning powers. I stand behind that. The other examples aren't from me, and I wouldn't post anything in that vein.

But that's the extent of any name-calling you'll find from me. You can compare my posts to some of the people I've attempted to engate who've recommended having me jailed, exiled, and just a couple days ago - hanged. Not to mention what they've recommended doing to liberals, which I am. I find a number of posters here seem to post only to express their hate, not to actually engage in any sort of rational discourse. Lots of heat emanating from them, not much light.

Pretty disappointing, really.

And again, when so many here seem to think intimidation is the only way they can win their argument, feigning shock that others use the same tactics is a bit hypocritical.

Again, liberals support teaching Holocaust history as it was. Hell, it was FDR - a raging liberal - that lead us into the fight against Germany.

[templar knight]

Damn, nowinger, look at the damn post. Intelligent design is not being taught in US schools, and evolution is not being forced out by the threat of violence against teachers. How fucking stupid can you be? Read the damn post.

You liberal fuckers are tying yourself into knots trying to keep from criticizing your Islamist allies. Telling.

[southdakotaboy]

Another thing that is just mind boggling is the fact that no liberals are showing any outrage at the fact that muslims are using the idea of violence that is tied to their religion to force others into doing what they want. Christians here in the US use peaceful political means to try and get their idea accross.
It shouldn't matter so much about what the idea is or if you agree with it or not. What should matter is that muslims are now using the implied threat of violence against teachers to dictate what is going to be taught in public schools. What are you libs going to do when they start doing that here.

[templar knight]

"Again, liberals support teaching Holocaust history as it was".

Yeah, but you can't bring yourselves to criticize Muslim extremists who threaten to kill teachers who do. So again, your support of the teaching is worthless if you are not willing to take steps(criticism of these Muslim tactics is the first one) to see that it(Holocaust history) is taught properly.

[Jon G]

Here you go Templar:

Any Muslim - extremist or not - that attempts to intimidate teachers to change how or what they teach should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

[templar knight]

southdakotaboy, there is no liberal outrage because they secretly admire these Islamists, and would use exactly the same tactics were they not afraid to. The liberals have supported the suppressing of both history and speech at their alter of political correctness.

[templar knight]

It took a hell of a long time to get one liberal to make any damn sense. But, thank you for that, JonG. It's about damn time.

[southdakotaboy]

Yes Jon G that is what needs to be said.

To the rest of you libs, see Jon G could agree with what we are saying and not giveup his belief that Intelligent Design is wrong. He also didn't burst into flames for agreeing with conservatives that violence directed at teachers is wrong. Jon G will now probably get listened to more when he makes his comments because he has shown that he is not some unthinking liberal moonbat.

[Jon G]

Thanks Templar - it was my pleasure. Keep listening and maybe we'll convert you over to our side.

And since not all holocaust deniers are Muslim, I'd say we should make it so ANYONE that attempts to intimidate teachers should be prosecuted.

[southdakotaboy]

What we need to do is start treating these extremist muslims just like we treat the Klan because that is what they are.

[Jon G]

I don't consider the belief that teachers should be free to teach facts a liberal OR conservative position. That's a basic, core American value.

[Doc]

Yep, those homeschoolers are kooks; smart (and athletic) kooks:

2005 National Geographic ‘Bee’
2001 National Spelling Bee
2001 US Open (Tennis)
2004 National Endowment for the Humanities essay contest
2005 Siemens Westinghouse Competition in Math, Science and Technology

all won by homeschoolers.

And since I strongly suspect homeschoolers are reproducing at superior rates to evolutionists, it's only a matter of time. Evolution in action. Survival of the fittest. Last man standing.

[Victor]

Why is it that the homeschool kooks feel a need to go out of their way to tell people that they are making their kids into social misfits? Actually, who cares. They're like the bible-thumpers who like to talk about all of their 'good deeds' and all the scripture that they read.

[scarshapedstar]

"scar, you dumb ass, that is not what is being taught in schools across the US. When it is being taught in schools across the US that slavery was not the primary cause of the Civil War, get back with me.

Damn, man, your analogy proves your own stupidity. For crying out loud, get a clue."

Uh... who said it was? My point was that Dan linked to a post where racist assholes (Let's not make any bones about it, "the blacks" are perverting everything? I smell a "civil war enthusiast.") are posting nonsensical revisionist history. And there is, in fact, a movement to teach this bullshit in our schools. The only difference is that in this instance (thankfully) the bad guys haven't won yet.

[Zifnab]

"Today's liberalism is indeed morally bankrupt and a blight on our species. They are lost in a corrupt intellectualism devoid of values, rendering it worthless for man and obviously any sense of a God."

Such big words. Sounds like you got yo-self one a dem fancy college ed-u-ma-cations, Dan.

But yes, go back to telling us about how Republicans fight corruption by funneling millions of taxpayer dollars into bullshit "Faith-Based Initatives"
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2004/10/03/MOON.TMP
http://content.hamptonroads.com/story.cfm?story=98167&ran=246795
and evil libs devoid of values want to destroy our society by teaching fact-based science.

Seriously, you bitch and bitch about Holocaust denial because they're Muslims. But where's the bitching at Nick Griffin, England's very own home-grown non-Muslim holocaust denier?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nick_Griffin
Or David Irving, the noted white British Historian?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Irving

It's totally cool that they're Holocaust deniers, after all, because they're good, white Christian folks. But a Muslim gets uppity and suddenly they've broken the 11th Commandment and it spells the end of English civility.

Do you mind if I call complete and utter bullshit on that Dan? Cause it's complete and utter bullshit.

[scarshapedstar]

Also. Look, if you have a Ph. D and your kid is one of those 4-year-old math prodigies, by all means, homeschool him. However, this is not generally the case. Most homeschoolers I know are Pentecostals who want to stuff their kids' heads with nonsense about young-earth Creationism and how Thomas Jefferson was a fundamentalist Christian. That's certainly their right, but I do not for a moment buy the line that these people are all amazing educators making a purely objective choice.

[Rich]

Zif -

David Irving went to jail for denying, in print, the Holocaust. Going to jail for that is not an indication that we are cool with white Holocaust deniers. The distinction is that Irving is not getting school curriculm's changed - because no one fears him, b/c they know he is full of shit and give him the respect he deserves, none.